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post #6451 of 6464 Old 09-18-2014, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Honestly, I thought Atmos would be done precisely as you describe. But the more info Dolby released, the more the dream died...
Even the most expensive Atmos processors on the market don't seem to have anything, but the simplest Atmos rendering communications (just what speakers are plugged in to your system)... you still need to place the speakers within the angle recommendations set by Dolby.

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post #6452 of 6464 Old 09-18-2014, 03:01 PM
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Honestly, I thought Atmos would be done precisely as you describe. But the more info Dolby released, the more the dream died...
Exactly what I am thinking. Rather than analyzing speaker locations to configure the system, they are requiring you to stick speakers in one of 34 very specifically defined locations. That is not a formula achieving wide adoption.
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post #6453 of 6464 Old 09-18-2014, 03:11 PM
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I also agree with Dan's comments before that separation is key. I happen to have a room where I don't have a lot of space between the seating location and the back wall. I have Rear Surrounds high on the rear wall.

I am not really in a position to add height speakers both behind and front of the seating location simply due to space and the distance between the existing speakers (it would be about 3 feet of space if I did -- and if I lowered my rear surrounds to listener level you would enjoy a speaker 2 feet behind your head). My preference would be to utilize the Rear Surrounds speakers, a pair of "Middle Overhead Speakers", and a pair of "Front Overhead Speakers" to achieve the height channel, assuming the processor would be smart enough to blend the Rear Overhead between the Middle Overhead and Rear Surround.

These are the types of questions that Dolby needs to address.

Last edited by Scott MS; 09-18-2014 at 03:17 PM.
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post #6454 of 6464 Old 09-18-2014, 04:28 PM
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Well, all 9 of my current speaker locations have been designed/built into columns and really can't be moved....:...

Fortunately, my ceilings are 10-1/2 ft high with ceiling cloud to hide possible ceiling speakers. My front row side surrounds are 2-1/2 ft above ear level with second row surrounds 18 inches above ear level. Both rows of side surround tweeters are 3 ft from ceiling........thus somewhat doable separation from all other surrounds. My problem is......current available products from Triad can't address dispersion issues for my room which is quite large compared to most dedicated rooms at 25-1/2 ft by 17 ft by 10-1/2 ft in ceiling height. I'm definitely going to wait until dust settles on this one..........
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post #6455 of 6464 Old 09-18-2014, 06:57 PM
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Guys quick question. I'm trying to rework my room with direct vs bi poles now due to atmos. I was originally using silver surrounds for my rears and sides. My front speakers were gold lcr's.

If I go with direct speakers is the omni silvers a good choice to replace the silver surrounds. I thought about silver lcr' but I thought it might be overkill.

My room is 12 wide by 22 long by 8 high.

Also if I can't go in my cieling for the *.4 speakers would the omnis be a good choice for rear heights and front heights set at the atmos recommended angles and placement?

Thanks a lot,
Jim

Ps I'm also throwing around the idea of going down to silver lcr' to match up all speakers if the omni are an appropriate choice for surround rears and heights if I can't get in my cieling with the bronze in cieling surrounds.
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post #6456 of 6464 Old 09-18-2014, 07:13 PM
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If you can safely reach reference level, based on the distance from the speaker location to the seating location (money seats/MLP) & the speaker sensitivity & their max power handling & your amplification, that is a minimal threshold for whether you could use (for example) the omni in place of the LCR, imo.

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post #6457 of 6464 Old 09-18-2014, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott MS View Post
Exactly what I am thinking. Rather than analyzing speaker locations to configure the system, they are requiring you to stick speakers in one of 34 very specifically defined locations. That is not a formula achieving wide adoption.
When DTS first started mapping out their plans for object based sound, they had this more flexible "we'll figure out what speakers you have and map the objects correctly for your setup" technology in their plan.

I agree it may be a few years until we see it available in regular gear (ie, $1,500 processors and not $30,000 ones) and I wouldn't be surprised if you have to upload measurements to a cloud service for crunching and they send back a config file for your system.

In those terms, what the Dolby system is, at this point, is a single, generic config file for some specific speaker positions. Still a big step forward, but not quite what most of us are hoping for.

At this point, I'd rather spend the money on a software solution that works correctly with where my speakers are, than spend money on moving my speakers.....

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Last edited by nathan_h; 09-18-2014 at 07:20 PM.
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post #6458 of 6464 Old 09-18-2014, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
When DTS first started mapping out their plans for object based sound, they had this more flexible "we'll figure out what speakers you have and map the objects correctly for your setup" technology in their plan.

I agree it may be a few years until we see it available in regular gear (ie, $1,500 processors and not $30,000 ones) and I wouldn't be surprised if you have to upload measurements to a cloud service for crunching and they send back a config file for your system.

In those terms, what the Dolby system is, at this point, is a single, generic config file for some specific speaker positions. Still a big step forward, but not quite what most of us are hoping for.

At this point, I'd rather spend the money on a software solution that works correctly with where my speakers are, than spend money on moving my speakers.....
There's only so much you can do with speakers that were meant to be overhead not high up on the wall and maintain the proper 3D effect Atmos sound engineers were trying to create. Re-mapping isn't a panacea. Even the professional Dolby Lake calibration system only can do so much with the Atmos renderer. Theater owners still need to install speakers to within a certain parameter to get the most seamless sound.

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post #6459 of 6464 Old 09-18-2014, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
There's only so much you can do with speakers that were meant to be overhead not high up on the wall and maintain the proper 3D effect Atmos sound engineers were trying to create. Re-mapping isn't a panacea. Even the professional Dolby Lake calibration system only can do so much with the Atmos renderer. Theater owners still need to install speakers to within a certain parameter to get the most seamless sound.

Absolutely.

My point is not that mapping is a panacea. Rather to say: There's still a significant amount that dynamic mapping could achieve beyond what is available right now.
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post #6460 of 6464 Old 09-19-2014, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jimim View Post
Guys quick question. I'm trying to rework my room with direct vs bi poles now due to atmos. I was originally using silver surrounds for my rears and sides. My front speakers were gold lcr's.

If I go with direct speakers is the omni silvers a good choice to replace the silver surrounds. I thought about silver lcr' but I thought it might be overkill.

My room is 12 wide by 22 long by 8 high.

Also if I can't go in my cieling for the *.4 speakers would the omnis be a good choice for rear heights and front heights set at the atmos recommended angles and placement?

Thanks a lot,
Jim

Ps I'm also throwing around the idea of going down to silver lcr' to match up all speakers if the omni are an appropriate choice for surround rears and heights if I can't get in my cieling with the bronze in cieling surrounds.
Jim,

If you have Gold LCRs for the front speakers, then the least expensive alternative for a direct radiating surround would be the InWall Gold/4 Omni SE.

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post #6461 of 6464 Old 09-19-2014, 06:26 AM
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Jim,

If you have Gold LCRs for the front speakers, then the least expensive alternative for a direct radiating surround would be the InWall Gold/4 Omni SE.
do you think it makes sense to use gold lcr's with my size room and now adding 4 overhead speakers? my mlp is 11 from the screen.

jim
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post #6462 of 6464 Old 09-19-2014, 08:55 AM
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do you think it makes sense to use gold lcr's with my size room and now adding 4 overhead speakers? my mlp is 11 from the screen.

jim
If you are going to downsize to Silvers then I would suggest the InWall Silver/4 LCR for front and rear surrounds. It won't be overkill.
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post #6463 of 6464 Old 09-19-2014, 05:50 PM
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Well, I'm starting a grand Triad experiment........

Plan to build a box out of 3/4" plywood the same size as Silver in-wall 4 LCR speakers and attempt to figure out vertical and horizontal angles with speaker on side angled to MLP. With 8-1/4" in depth for cloud, maybe matching Silvers might be a better road to take. If I can angle box enough in front this plan might work.

I'll have to place a call to Triad to find vertical and horizontal dispersion for Silver 4's..........for the time being, does anyone know dispersion characteristics for Silver LCR in upright position? If someone has that info, please post as it would be most helpful. Lasers are at the ready to see if this idea is possible.

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post #6464 of 6464 Old 09-19-2014, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Well, I'm starting a grand Triad experiment........

Plan to build a box out of 3/4" plywood the same size as Silver in-wall 4 LCR speakers and attempt to figure out vertical and horizontal angles with speaker on side angled to MLP. With 8-1/4" in depth for cloud, maybe matching Silvers might be a better road to take. If I can angle box enough in front this plan might work.

I'll have to place a call to Triad to find vertical and horizontal dispersion for Silver 4's..........for the time being, does anyone know dispersion characteristics for Silver LCR in upright position? If someone has that info, please post as it would be most helpful. Lasers are at the ready to see if this idea is possible.
I'll be watching u close. I don't see why in wall silver omnis can't work if placed properly. My drWngs are back at triad and I'm really interested to see what they tell me. The incieling silver omnis are way too deep but the in wall omnis are nice and shallow.
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