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post #6901 of 6924 Old Yesterday, 01:28 PM
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I think the calculator is somewhat based on the dispersion angle of all of their InCeiling speakers. Due to the angled baffle, they cover an angle from directly below to 60 degrees. You need to make sure that your sitting area (and ears) falls within this range. There are charts on their website that explain this.


If you don't have very high ceilings, you must be careful not the mount them too far forward.


http://www.triadspeakers.com/education/faq.html


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InCeiling speakers have their drivers on a 45 degree angled baffle, which should be generally aimed at the listening area. The useable vertical dispersion angle is approximately 60 degrees. That is, they can be used from directly underneath, to 30 degrees down from the ceiling surface. The rule of thumb is if you can see the tweeter, you are within desirable parameters. To be more precise, use the InCeiling Speaker Distance Calculator in the Dealer Download section of our website.

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post #6902 of 6924 Old Yesterday, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by hendry98 View Post
Basically the calculator was made by Triad to calculate where exactly you need to place your height speakers (front and rear) from your main seat.

i think it is based on Dolby recommendation for Atmos height speakers, which are 30-50 degree for front & 125-150 for rear heights speakers (InCeiling)
Okay, good to know.

I'm still waiting for things to settle down (probably after the DTS tech gets released) before pulling the trigger, especially since I'll be sporting a 5.1.2 setup which will probably be less forgiving that 7.1.4 which seems more common so far.
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post #6903 of 6924 Old Yesterday, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott MS View Post
I think the calculator is somewhat based on the dispersion angle of all of their InCeiling speakers. Due to the angled baffle, they cover an angle from directly below to 60 degrees. You need to make sure that your sitting area (and ears) falls within this range. There are charts on their website that explain this.


If you don't have very high ceilings, you must be careful not the mount them too far forward.


http://www.triadspeakers.com/education/faq.html
Vertical dispersion in one thing...................horizontal dispersion is another. With 45 degree baffle and 60 degree dispersion on vertical axis, boundary issues are not too bad........most certainly doable, yet still have inherent issues......................but then again, getting horizontal axis to work is another story. +/- 3 db's off axis to what angle? That would be interesting to know since one one is willing to divulge the answer.
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How well do you guys think the Triad Silvers would work in my room I am building? What would you recommend for the speakers in a 9.1.6 Atmos configuration (for future compatibility)?

A custom installer is highly recommending I go with the Pro Audio SCR-12sm for my L/C/R and something like the http://proaudiotechnology.com/scrs-5iw.html or http://proaudiotechnology.com/scrs-25ica.html for the surrounds.

These speakers require using Pro Audio's amp as well, and the whole setup seems rather complex (I am used to calibrating (i.e. REW) and tweaking my own gear and this sounds like I'd have a ton to learn). Not to mention the considerable expense.

In my case I want the room to sounds great, but I do not blast movies. Generally I listen at moderate levels. Under what conditions (if any) might the Pro Audio's be a better fit than the Triad? I looked all over AVS and there is very little posted about Pro Audio gear, unlike Triad. Why is that you think?

If the Pro Audio gear is at another level higher, are there other such manufacturers at the same level that don't require using their proprietary amps?

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post #6905 of 6924 Old Yesterday, 07:43 PM
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John - just wanted to say - very nice work in Sketchup.
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post #6906 of 6924 Old Yesterday, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
How well do you guys think the Triad Silvers would work in my room I am building? What would you recommend for the speakers in a 9.1.6 Atmos configuration (for future compatibility)?

A custom installer is highly recommending I go with the Pro Audio SCR-12sm for my L/C/R and something like the http://proaudiotechnology.com/scrs-5iw.html or http://proaudiotechnology.com/scrs-25ica.html for the surrounds.

These speakers require using Pro Audio's amp as well, and the whole setup seems rather complex (I am used to calibrating (i.e. REW) and tweaking my own gear and this sounds like I'd have a ton to learn). Not to mention the considerable expense.

In my case I want the room to sounds great, but I do not blast movies. Generally I listen at moderate levels. Under what conditions (if any) might the Pro Audio's be a better fit than the Triad? I looked all over AVS and there is very little posted about Pro Audio gear, unlike Triad. Why is that you think?

If the Pro Audio gear is at another level higher, are there other such manufacturers at the same level that don't require using their proprietary amps?
I was fortunate to hear PHC ie Proaudio Technology system at Definitive Audio in Seattle and Room Service in Beaverton, Oregon. I came very, very close to purchasing system, but in the end decided to go Triad due to listening levels and Triad being an Oregon company.

Proaudiotech Tech with DSP amps which bi-amp speakers are really easy to deal with if a local calibrator is available or if you are a tweaker. For true cinema sound at ear splitting levels, not too many commercial offerings can touch them for home theater! They were the only horns I even considered. Great system, but just too much for my 25.5 by 17 by 10.5 ft room.

To answer your original question, I use 6 Silver LCR's for surround and 3 Gold LCR's for front........and I might add, saved a lot of $$$ going this route and am happy with system.

I learned very fast, great speakers that are flat across FR in a well treated acoustically designed room can play at same quality levels as a big boy system like Proaudiotech Technology system.

In the end, room plays the biggest role in what we hear.......great speakers help too.
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post #6907 of 6924 Old Yesterday, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
I was fortunate to hear PHC ie Proaudio Technology system at Definitive Audio in Seattle and Room Service in Beaverton, Oregon. I came very, very close to purchasing system, but in the end decided to go Triad due to listening levels and Triad being an Oregon company.

Proaudiotech Tech with DSP amps which bi-amp speakers are really easy to deal with if a local calibrator is available or if you are a tweaker.
Yes there would be a local calibrator. But I don't want to be dependant on anyone. I want to be able to tweak and have various presets like an EQ for when I am the only one in the theater in the MLP and an EQ when there are people next to me and an EQ present when both rows are filled etc. I want to be able to play around with it if I change the furniture or move the MLP some - don't want to have to call someone back in etc.

I like the idea of using the 88A DSP with Dirac Live - is that not necessary then with the Pro Audio solution?

Quote:
For true cinema sound at ear splitting levels, not too many commercial offerings can touch them for home theater! They were the only horns I even considered. Great system, but just too much for my 25.5 by 17 by 10.5 ft room.
Well, that's just it. I really have no interest in playing the speakers at ear splitting level - none (wow I can't believe I just wrote that). There was a time many years ago, yes, that would be key. But my hearing has been damaged from concerts and other loud music, and I am sensitive to it now and just don't enjoy it crazy loud. Loud-ish, yes. Crazy ear splitting loud - nah I can't do it. So with this in mind does that mean Triad Gold would be good. What about the platinums? Overkill or...? For reference my room is similar to yours but with smaller ceilings - I'm about 28' L x 18' W x 7.75' H.

Quote:
To answer your original question, I use 6 Silver LCR's for surround and 3 Gold LCR's for front........and I might add, saved a lot of $$$ going this route and am happy with system.
It makes me a little weary having to be locked into Pro Techs amp if I go in that direction. I like that with Triad you can use whatever. I think for my listening tastes and style (more of a video guy than an audio guy) the Triad would be a clearer, more simplistic solution that may come "close enough" to what I'd get with something like the Pro Audio.

Are there any other speakers I may want to consider besides the Triad line?

Quote:
I learned very fast, great speakers that are flat across FR in a well treated acoustically designed room can play at same quality levels as a big boy system like Proaudiotech Technology system.
"FR"?

Quote:
In the end, room plays the biggest role in what we hear.......great speakers help too.
Yes I will definitely be investing in acoustical treatments and having a professional plan and carry out the implementation of that.
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post #6908 of 6924 Old Yesterday, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Yes there would be a local calibrator. But I don't want to be dependant on anyone. I want to be able to tweak and have various presets like an EQ for when I am the only one in the theater in the MLP and an EQ when there are people next to me and an EQ present when both rows are filled etc. I want to be able to play around with it if I change the furniture or move the MLP some - don't want to have to call someone back in etc.

I like the idea of using the 88A DSP with Dirac Live - is that not necessary then with the Pro Audio solution?



Well, that's just it. I really have no interest in playing the speakers at ear splitting level - none (wow I can't believe I just wrote that). There was a time many years ago, yes, that would be key. But my hearing has been damaged from concerts and other loud music, and I am sensitive to it now and just don't enjoy it crazy loud. Loud-ish, yes. Crazy ear splitting loud - nah I can't do it. So with this in mind does that mean Triad Gold would be good. What about the platinums? Overkill or...? For reference my room is similar to yours but with smaller ceilings - I'm about 28' L x 18' W x 7.75' H.



It makes me a little weary having to be locked into Pro Techs amp if I go in that direction. I like that with Triad you can use whatever. I think for my listening tastes and style (more of a video guy than an audio guy) the Triad would be a clearer, more simplistic solution that may come "close enough" to what I'd get with something like the Pro Audio.

Are there any other speakers I may want to consider besides the Triad line?



"FR"?



Yes I will definitely be investing in acoustical treatments and having a professional plan and carry out the implementation of that.
FR.......frequency response from 70 Hz to 20,000 Hz.

I drove Paul Scarpelli up a tree with my speaker adventures! Poor guy.....

Spent 2-1/2 years searching for speakers to use in my room. Figured over 60+ different auditions from Seattle to San Diego.


My two favorites were Aerial 20T V2's and Triad Gold Monitors.........Gold Monitor's are a fraction of cost compared to those V2's!

I auditioned many hard to find speakers such as Adam Audio Pencils/Columns, B&W CT 800 series, PHC, Wisdom, Focal, Dynoaudio and others.........but I still came back to Triad. Learned quite a bit from that journey.............
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post #6909 of 6924 Old Today, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
How well do you guys think the Triad Silvers would work in my room I am building? What would you recommend for the speakers in a 9.1.6 Atmos configuration (for future compatibility)?
Which Triad Silvers are you considering? There are multiple speakers in the "Silver" line, and they have different output capabilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
A custom installer is highly recommending I go with the Pro Audio SCR-12sm for my L/C/R and something like the http://proaudiotechnology.com/scrs-5iw.html or http://proaudiotechnology.com/scrs-25ica.html for the surrounds.
Those speakers use compression drivers with horns. You should ensure you like the sound of compression drivers with horns, and in particular, that specific application of CD's and horns. I have personally only heard one application of CD's and horns that sounded as smooth to me as any of the Triad speakers I've heard, (and that was the JBL M2's @ $10K each.) Virtually all other CD/horn applications I've heard have had an upper midrange/treble "bite" to them. Of course, that is just my experience and you should listen for yourself. MANY people love the sound of CD/horns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
These speakers require using Pro Audio's amp as well, and the whole setup seems rather complex (I am used to calibrating (i.e. REW) and tweaking my own gear and this sounds like I'd have a ton to learn). Not to mention the considerable expense.
The Triads are not "cheap" and you will still need amps for them, so factor that into your budget. If you go with the Triads, I suggest D-Sonic amps: http://www.d-sonic.net/
You can call the owner and he will custom configure an amp or amps to whatever multi-channel wattage configuration you need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
In my case I want the room to sounds great, but I do not blast movies. Generally I listen at moderate levels. Under what conditions (if any) might the Pro Audio's be a better fit than the Triad? I looked all over AVS and there is very little posted about Pro Audio gear, unlike Triad. Why is that you think?
The ProAudio speakers are rated to output 130 dB. That's 25 dB louder than "Reference Level." If you only want to listen at "moderate levels" there is no benefit to paying for speakers that have so much extra output capability if you're never going to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
If the Pro Audio gear is at another level higher, are there other such manufacturers at the same level that don't require using their proprietary amps?
"Another level" in terms of SPL output for sure, but for SQ, you should hear them for yourself to make that decision.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Yes there would be a local calibrator. But I don't want to be dependant on anyone. I want to be able to tweak and have various presets like an EQ for when I am the only one in the theater in the MLP and an EQ when there are people next to me and an EQ present when both rows are filled etc. I want to be able to play around with it if I change the furniture or move the MLP some - don't want to have to call someone back in etc.

I like the idea of using the 88A DSP with Dirac Live - is that not necessary then with the Pro Audio solution?
The DSP EQ in the ProAudio amps looks like it is Parametric EQ only. While that is better than nothing, it doesn't do what Dirac Live can do.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Well, that's just it. I really have no interest in playing the speakers at ear splitting level - none (wow I can't believe I just wrote that). There was a time many years ago, yes, that would be key. But my hearing has been damaged from concerts and other loud music, and I am sensitive to it now and just don't enjoy it crazy loud. Loud-ish, yes. Crazy ear splitting loud - nah I can't do it. So with this in mind does that mean Triad Gold would be good. What about the platinums? Overkill or...? For reference my room is similar to yours but with smaller ceilings - I'm about 28' L x 18' W x 7.75' H.
Cubic volume of the room is important for calculating subwoofer requirements. For speakers, the more important factor is listening distance. In your case, the front row will be 165", (13.75') and your 2nd row will be 242.5", (20.2'). The Inverse Square Law states that you loose 6 dB for every doubling of distance from the source. In a room, due to room reinforcement, that will drop to approximately 3 dB for doubling of distance, but it will be very frequency dependent. Here is a calculator that can help you estimate how much speaker SPL output and how much amplifier wattage you'll need to get the SPL you desire at your 2 rows of seats: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
It makes me a little weary having to be locked into Pro Techs amp if I go in that direction. I like that with Triad you can use whatever. I think for my listening tastes and style (more of a video guy than an audio guy) the Triad would be a clearer, more simplistic solution that may come "close enough" to what I'd get with something like the Pro Audio.

Are there any other speakers I may want to consider besides the Triad line?
If you like CD's and horns, there are lots of options... Seaton, JTR, JBL, Klipsch, Yorkville, Procella, Genelec, etc. If you are not enamored of CD's and horns, your options are more limited. You have a sizeable room, (almost 4K cubic feet and you sit fairly far away. You'll want high(er) sensitivity speakers to be able fill your room with sound. Towers should be taken off your list of possibilities. You'll want LCR-type speakers, (speakers designed for use with subwoofers), for your fronts. IMO, you'll also want 3 identical front speakers with at least the CC placed behind an AT screen. This is a critical aspect of the HT design. The sketch-ups on your theater design page doesn't show a false wall. If you're using an AT screen, you need space behind the screen for the speaker(s). This would move your "screen wall" forward, and your screen closer to your seating. You'll want to take that into account when you calculate seating distances, viewing distances, etc. I didn't read your whole build thread, and you may have already done this, but if you haven't, you'll want to recalculate those things.

You'll also want some significant subwoofage to be able to pressurize the room with bass. Also, multiple subs will help even out the FR across more listening positions. Triad subs are good, but you'll definitely want more than one, even if you go with the Platinum DSP sub. Another option would be the Seaton Submersive HP+, Master + Slave combo: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...option-6453864 Also, JTR offers a few high output subwoofer options: http://jtrspeakers.com/ Yet another alternative is DIY for the subs. @doublewing11 can help you with that option...


Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Yes I will definitely be investing in acoustical treatments and having a professional plan and carry out the implementation of that.
Excellent! I'm sure you'll end up with a GREAT HT! Have fun and enjoy the process.

Craig

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Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #6910 of 6924 Old Today, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
Which Triad Silvers are you considering? There are multiple speakers in the "Silver" line, and they have different output capabilities.


Those speakers use compression drivers with horns. You should ensure you like the sound of compression drivers with horns, and in particular, that specific application of CD's and horns. I have personally only heard one application of CD's and horns that sounded as smooth to me as any of the Triad speakers I've heard, (and that was the JBL M2's @ $10K each.) Virtually all other CD/horn applications I've heard have had an upper midrange/treble "bite" to them. Of course, that is just my experience and you should listen for yourself. MANY people love the sound of CD/horns.


The Triads are not "cheap" and you will still need amps for them, so factor that into your budget. If you go with the Triads, I suggest D-Sonic amps: http://www.d-sonic.net/
You can call the owner and he will custom configure an amp or amps to whatever multi-channel wattage configuration you need.


The ProAudio speakers are rated to output 130 dB. That's 25 dB louder than "Reference Level." If you only want to listen at "moderate levels" there is no benefit to paying for speakers that have so much extra output capability if you're never going to use it.


"Another level" in terms of SPL output for sure, but for SQ, you should hear them for yourself to make that decision.



The DSP EQ in the ProAudio amps looks like it is Parametric EQ only. While that is better than nothing, it doesn't do what Dirac Live can do.




Cubic volume of the room is important for calculating subwoofer requirements. For speakers, the more important factor is listening distance. In your case, the front row will be 165", (13.75') and your 2nd row will be 242.5", (20.2'). The Inverse Square Law states that you loose 6 dB for every doubling of distance from the source. In a room, due to room reinforcement, that will drop to approximately 3 dB for doubling of distance, but it will be very frequency dependent. Here is a calculator that can help you estimate how much speaker SPL output and how much amplifier wattage you'll need to get the SPL you desire at your 2 rows of seats: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html


If you like CD's and horns, there are lots of options... Seaton, JTR, JBL, Klipsch, Yorkville, Procella, Genelec, etc. If you are not enamored of CD's and horns, your options are more limited. You have a sizeable room, (almost 4K cubic feet and you sit fairly far away. You'll want high(er) sensitivity speakers to be able fill your room with sound. Towers should be taken off your list of possibilities. You'll want LCR-type speakers, (speakers designed for use with subwoofers), for your fronts. IMO, you'll also want 3 identical front speakers with at least the CC placed behind an AT screen. This is a critical aspect of the HT design. The sketch-ups on your theater design page doesn't show a false wall. If you're using an AT screen, you need space behind the screen for the speaker(s). This would move your "screen wall" forward, and your screen closer to your seating. You'll want to take that into account when you calculate seating distances, viewing distances, etc. I didn't read your whole build thread, and you may have already done this, but if you haven't, you'll want to recalculate those things.

You'll also want some significant subwoofage to be able to pressurize the room with bass. Also, multiple subs will help even out the FR across more listening positions. Triad subs are good, but you'll definitely want more than one, even if you go with the Platinum DSP sub. Another option would be the Seaton Submersive HP+, Master + Slave combo: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...option-6453864 Also, JTR offers a few high output subwoofer options: http://jtrspeakers.com/ Yet another alternative is DIY for the subs. @doublewing11 can help you with that option...



Excellent! I'm sure you'll end up with a GREAT HT! Have fun and enjoy the process.

Craig
Thanks Craig! This is very helpful and highlights just how much I need to learn to navigate these waters. For example, I don't even know what "CD's and horns" are or what that means.

As for my room, the model has changed from the one it sounds like you were looking at. See the attached update. Using a 18" screen wall. Seating distance to first row is about 12.5' now, and mostly all I care about (2nd row is lower priority). 2nd row about 19'. Thanks for the links to the sound amp db calculator but I don't know how to even use the inputs on it.

I was thinking about 3 of the Triad Gold LCRs for the fronts. What kind of amp power do I need you think? What type of speaker wire is appropriate?

Yes I'd like to use the 88A with Dirac Live in this system so whatever I choose for the amp and speakers and pre processors etc I need to all be compatible together. Also I want to be sure and avoid any hum in the system which I understand can creep in - that drives me nuts.
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post #6911 of 6924 Old Today, 12:33 PM
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Thanks Craig! This is very helpful and highlights just how much I need to learn to navigate these waters. For example, I don't even know what "CD's and horns" are or what that means.
CD's are "Compression Drivers." You can read about them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_driver

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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
As for my room, the model has changed from the one it sounds like you were looking at. See the attached update. Using a 18" screen wall. Seating distance to first row is about 12.5' now, and mostly all I care about (2nd row is lower priority). 2nd row about 19'. Thanks for the links to the sound amp db calculator but I don't know how to even use the inputs on it.

I was thinking about 3 of the Triad Gold LCRs for the fronts. What kind of amp power do I need you think?
3 of the Gold LCR's for the front would be excellent. The Gold LCR's are 94 dB sensitivity. Plugging that number into the calculator, along with 400 watts of amplifier power, 12.5' seating distance, 1 speaker and "near a wall" yields 112.4 dB at the listening position. Now you can play around with other wattages, listening distances and numbers of speakers and see what impact they have on the SPL's. The speakers sensitives for all Triad speakers specified on the Triad website. You can look up the sensitivites of the surrounds you're considering and plug them in also. This can tell you how much amplifier power you'll need to get the SPL's you want at your listening position. You can find the best speakers to match your front using the Triad Speaker Matching Table provided by Dawn Gordon: Triad Owner's Thread

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What type of speaker wire is appropriate?
No need to get fancy with speaker wire. Just find the proper gauge for the length of your run and then get the best priced wire you can find at that gauge:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable
I use RAM Electronics cable, but wire from Monoprice, Blue Jeans Cable or Parts Express works fine also.

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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Yes I'd like to use the 88A with Dirac Live in this system so whatever I choose for the amp and speakers and pre processors etc I need to all be compatible together. Also I want to be sure and avoid any hum in the system which I understand can creep in - that drives me nuts.
The miniDSP DDRC 88A is placed between the preamp/processor and the power amps. It should work with most anything, as long as there are preamp outputs available. However, it's only 8 channels, (7 speakers and subwoofer.) If you're going to have 9 speakers, plus 6(?) Atmos speakers and a subwoofer channel, the 88A won't correct all those speakers/channels.

60 cycle hum can be introduced into any system if proper grounding of the system is not accomplished. A through discussion of grounding is well beyond the scope of this thread. If you end up with hum in your system, post a question in the Audio Theory, Setup and Chat Forum, and you'll get good help there.

Craig

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To answer your original question, I use 6 Silver LCR's for surround and 3 Gold LCR's for front........and I might add, saved a lot of $$$ going this route and am happy with system.
I am also considering going with 3 Gold LCR's for the front. Why did you decide on using 6 Silver LCR's for the surrounds verses the Triad OnWall Gold/4 Omni SE, or some other triad model? I am eventually wanting to go with an Atmos setup so struggling with what choice to use for the surrounds.

Ryan
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[quote=craig john;32352649]CD's are "Compression Drivers." You can read about them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_driver

3 of the Gold LCR's for the front would be excellent. The Gold LCR's are 94 dB sensitivity. Plugging that number into the calculator, along with 400 watts of amplifier power, 12.5' seating distance, 1 speaker and "near a wall" yields 112.4 dB at the listening position. Now you can play around with other wattages, listening distances and numbers of speakers and see what impact they have on the SPL's. The speakers sensitives for all Triad speakers specified on the Triad website. You can look up the sensitivites of the surrounds you're considering and plug them in also. This can tell you how much amplifier power you'll need to get the SPL's you want at your listening position. You can find the best speakers to match your front using the Triad Speaker Matching Table provided by Dawn Gordon: Triad Owner's Thread

Thank you Craig! That is super helpful. With my Yamaha RX-V1800 I'd say I typically watch movies with the volume set somewhere around -15dB or -10dB. On rare occassions maybe its been around 0dB. So am I right then to assume that 112dB from this calculator means that at the volumes I typically listen to I will be fine with this configuration and there will be no distortion? The 112dB that means it can play sounds up to that level cleanly? What about peaks?

Quote:

No need to get fancy with speaker wire. Just find the proper gauge for the length of your run and then get the best priced wire you can find at that gauge:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable
I use RAM Electronics cable, but wire from Monoprice, Blue Jeans Cable or Parts Express works fine also.
Thanks. I asked because I thought I read that speaker wire can cause a loss of dB or gain or something and therefore its important to have a good quality one.

Quote:
The miniDSP DDRC 88A is placed between the preamp/processor and the power amps. It should work with most anything, as long as there are preamp outputs available. However, it's only 8 channels, (7 speakers and subwoofer.) If you're going to have 9 speakers, plus 6(?) Atmos speakers and a subwoofer channel, the 88A won't correct all those speakers/channels.
Right. I wonder if it'll be possible to add a second 88A to cover the remaining speakers, but that may be overkill considering they are all mostly just "effect" speakers (heights), with the exception of the Wides.

Quote:
60 cycle hum can be introduced into any system if proper grounding of the system is not accomplished. A through discussion of grounding is well beyond the scope of this thread. If you end up with hum in your system, post a question in the Audio Theory, Setup and Chat Forum, and you'll get good help there.

Craig
I'll need to do my homework to make sure the integrator does everything up front to avoid such hum issues...
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Originally Posted by revans35 View Post
I am also considering going with 3 Gold LCR's for the front. Why did you decide on using 6 Silver LCR's for the surrounds verses the Triad OnWall Gold/4 Omni SE, or some other triad model? I am eventually wanting to go with an Atmos setup so struggling with what choice to use for the surrounds.

Ryan
Simple answer........Erskine Group spec-ed. Silver LCR's handle 150 watts compared to 100 watts with Omni SE's ........besides, sensitivity of Silver LCR's are more in line with Gold LCR's. Regarding cost, both essential same so cost was not a factor.
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Does anyone own or have heard the CINEMA REFERENCE speakers? Any opinions in relation to the Platinum speakers (other than price)? Thx

Jeff
I have seen them, but not heard them. My own speakers are similar in design to them. Horn loaded AMT tweeter, two pro mids and an 18" mid. Really like the tweeter. The Cinema Reference design makes for a speaker that has very high sound quality along with great dynamics.

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Yes there would be a local calibrator. But I don't want to be dependant on anyone. I want to be able to tweak and have various presets like an EQ for when I am the only one in the theater in the MLP and an EQ when there are people next to me and an EQ present when both rows are filled etc. I want to be able to play around with it if I change the furniture or move the MLP some - don't want to have to call someone back in etc.

I like the idea of using the 88A DSP with Dirac Live - is that not necessary then with the Pro Audio solution?



Well, that's just it. I really have no interest in playing the speakers at ear splitting level - none (wow I can't believe I just wrote that). There was a time many years ago, yes, that would be key. But my hearing has been damaged from concerts and other loud music, and I am sensitive to it now and just don't enjoy it crazy loud. Loud-ish, yes. Crazy ear splitting loud - nah I can't do it. So with this in mind does that mean Triad Gold would be good. What about the platinums? Overkill or...? For reference my room is similar to yours but with smaller ceilings - I'm about 28' L x 18' W x 7.75' H.



It makes me a little weary having to be locked into Pro Techs amp if I go in that direction. I like that with Triad you can use whatever. I think for my listening tastes and style (more of a video guy than an audio guy) the Triad would be a clearer, more simplistic solution that may come "close enough" to what I'd get with something like the Pro Audio.

Are there any other speakers I may want to consider besides the Triad line?



"FR"?



Yes I will definitely be investing in acoustical treatments and having a professional plan and carry out the implementation of that.
If you are not after clean reference levels, then I see no reason to consider horn loaded compression drivers.

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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Thanks Craig! This is very helpful and highlights just how much I need to learn to navigate these waters. For example, I don't even know what "CD's and horns" are or what that means.

As for my room, the model has changed from the one it sounds like you were looking at. See the attached update. Using a 18" screen wall. Seating distance to first row is about 12.5' now, and mostly all I care about (2nd row is lower priority). 2nd row about 19'. Thanks for the links to the sound amp db calculator but I don't know how to even use the inputs on it.

I was thinking about 3 of the Triad Gold LCRs for the fronts. What kind of amp power do I need you think? What type of speaker wire is appropriate?

Yes I'd like to use the 88A with Dirac Live in this system so whatever I choose for the amp and speakers and pre processors etc I need to all be compatible together. Also I want to be sure and avoid any hum in the system which I understand can creep in - that drives me nuts.
The DDRC-88A has balanced and un-balanced connections. It will work with any prepro or AVR with preouts, either XLR or RCA. I have been using one for a while now and like it very much. Personally, I would use a prepro with XLR out, feeding the DDRC-88a and from the DDRC-88A to the amps, I would stay with XLR balanced connections. Little more trouble free, when it comes to ground loops. I would want to feed the Triad Golds, 200 watts or more of power. 12 gauge speaker wire is fine, unless you are going to have runs longer than around 55 feet.
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[quote=lovingdvd;32354025]
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
CD's are "Compression Drivers." You can read about them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_driver

3 of the Gold LCR's for the front would be excellent. The Gold LCR's are 94 dB sensitivity. Plugging that number into the calculator, along with 400 watts of amplifier power, 12.5' seating distance, 1 speaker and "near a wall" yields 112.4 dB at the listening position. Now you can play around with other wattages, listening distances and numbers of speakers and see what impact they have on the SPL's. The speakers sensitives for all Triad speakers specified on the Triad website. You can look up the sensitivites of the surrounds you're considering and plug them in also. This can tell you how much amplifier power you'll need to get the SPL's you want at your listening position. You can find the best speakers to match your front using the Triad Speaker Matching Table provided by Dawn Gordon: Triad Owner's Thread

Thank you Craig! That is super helpful. With my Yamaha RX-V1800 I'd say I typically watch movies with the volume set somewhere around -15dB or -10dB. On rare occassions maybe its been around 0dB. So am I right then to assume that 112dB from this calculator means that at the volumes I typically listen to I will be fine with this configuration and there will be no distortion? The 112dB that means it can play sounds up to that level cleanly? What about peaks?



Thanks. I asked because I thought I read that speaker wire can cause a loss of dB or gain or something and therefore its important to have a good quality one.



Right. I wonder if it'll be possible to add a second 88A to cover the remaining speakers, but that may be overkill considering they are all mostly just "effect" speakers (heights), with the exception of the Wides.



I'll need to do my homework to make sure the integrator does everything up front to avoid such hum issues...
Problem grouping two DDRC-88A's together. I would place all lower level speakers on DDRC-88A and use the prepro to set levels and delay for the Atmos speakers. Then if at a later date a Dirac unit with more channels becomes available, you can upgrade if you think it is necessary. Since my system has 9 speakers and six subs in it, I have all of my subs on one channel of the DDRC-88a, but using a 10x10HD to set delay for each of the subs. One set of my Atmos speakers are not going through the DDRC-88A. Like I suggested, levels and delay for these two channels are done in my prepro.

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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Simple answer........Erskine Group spec-ed. Silver LCR's handle 150 watts compared to 100 watts with Omni SE's ........besides, sensitivity of Silver LCR's are more in line with Gold LCR's. Regarding cost, both essential same so cost was not a factor.
I'm also looking for Triad surrounds to pair with the Gold LCRs. The Silver LCRs look great. However I'm concerned about the size. Since the room is fairly narrow I think the Silver LCRs may be too big for the walls - at least not without being in the way, such as when walking down the main aisle. What other on-wall speakers from Triad may be a good match that might be a little smaller? I would like to stay with on-wall (rather than in-wall) so they can be angled to the MLP.
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I'm also looking for Triad surrounds to pair with the Gold LCRs. The Silver LCRs look great. However I'm concerned about the size. Since the room is fairly narrow I think the Silver LCRs may be too big for the walls - at least not without being in the way, such as when walking down the main aisle. What other on-wall speakers from Triad may be a good match that might be a little smaller? I would like to stay with on-wall (rather than in-wall) so they can be angled to the MLP.
In wall Silver LCR come in 4" and 6" depths...........................I see no issue. My room was 17 ft wide before clips and channels........... have no problems whatsoever with surrounds in columns.

BTW, CJ ie Craig John.......................

Proaudio Tech speakers are great sounding horns which use compression drivers........................................... sound quality is superb! But overkill for this poor soul!

After hearing Noesis 212's................I gave up on Plats and went with Erskine Group spec-ed Gold LCR's. Both you and Paul did a fine job trying to convince me.........but this old cogger listen's only at -8 on Marantz 8801. Plat's would have been overkill...............................

Gold LCR's handle reference quite well...........................but I have NO desire to listen at those levels for more than 20 minutes at a time.
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
In wall Silver LCR come in 4" and 6" depths...........................I see no issue. My room was 17 ft wide before clips and channels........... have no problems whatsoever with surrounds in columns.

BTW, CJ ie Craig John.......................

Proaudio Tech speakers are great sounding horns which use compression drivers........................................... sound quality is superb! But overkill for this poor soul!

After hearing Noesis 212's................I gave up on Plats and went with Erskine Group spec-ed Gold LCR's. Both you and Paul did a fine job trying to convince me.........but this old cogger listen's only at -8 on Marantz 8801. Plat's would have been overkill...............................

Gold LCR's handle reference quite well...........................but I have NO desire to listen at those levels for more than 20 minutes at a time.
If the calculator says I would get 112 dB at my listening position, how much over reference level is that? And is that enough to handle peaks? I'm with you - I just can't listen to it cranked up like I used to or else my ears will ring for days and days afterward.

I didn't realize the Silver LCRs are available as in-wall. Can they be angled? I want to angle my surrounds back to the MLP.

What are you doing for Atmos speakers? Same issue there - I've read they should be angled to the MLP but not sure how to do that without using these rather large speakers sticking out from the ceiling!
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
The DDRC-88A has balanced and un-balanced connections. It will work with any prepro or AVR with preouts, either XLR or RCA. I have been using one for a while now and like it very much. Personally, I would use a prepro with XLR out, feeding the DDRC-88a and from the DDRC-88A to the amps, I would stay with XLR balanced connections. Little more trouble free, when it comes to ground loops. I would want to feed the Triad Golds, 200 watts or more of power. 12 gauge speaker wire is fine, unless you are going to have runs longer than around 55 feet.
Thanks Mike! What prepro would you recommend to go along with the Gold LCR and 88A? And any suggestions for amps? Thanks for the tip about staying with XLR.

I found the calculator interesting - going from 200 watts to 400 watts only raised the dB at the MLP by less than 5%.
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[quote=AV Science Sales 5;32356969]
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Problem grouping two DDRC-88A's together. I would place all lower level speakers on DDRC-88A and use the prepro to set levels and delay for the Atmos speakers. Then if at a later date a Dirac unit with more channels becomes available, you can upgrade if you think it is necessary. Since my system has 9 speakers and six subs in it, I have all of my subs on one channel of the DDRC-88a, but using a 10x10HD to set delay for each of the subs. One set of my Atmos speakers are not going through the DDRC-88A. Like I suggested, levels and delay for these two channels are done in my prepro.
6 subs - wow Mike. When using the 10x10HD to set delay - how are you determining what delays to set?
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If the calculator says I would get 112 dB at my listening position, how much over reference level is that? And is that enough to handle peaks? I'm with you - I just can't listen to it cranked up like I used to or else my ears will ring for days and days afterward.

I didn't realize the Silver LCRs are available as in-wall. Can they be angled? I want to angle my surrounds back to the MLP.

What are you doing for Atmos speakers? Same issue there - I've read they should be angled to the MLP but not sure how to do that without using these rather large speakers sticking out from the ceiling!
That's the million dollar question.........."What do I plan to use for Atmos ceiling speakers?"

Lucky me, I have 10.5ft ceiling and rather than build coffer ceiling I built an Atmos ceiling cloud...a first on AVS Forum!

Pretty slick.......8-1/4" depth allows for versatility in choosing speakers. Still looking for wide dispersion monopoles and am leaning toward Tannoy Di6Dc's or hoping Triad comes up with something.

I'll select speakers when HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 compliant prepro is available. Right now, eyeing Marantz 8802 when HDCP 2.2 is available.
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