Triad Owner's Thread - Page 242 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7231 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
So, how do the silver lcr's handle being pushed to their limits? My seating distance is 11ft from the front row, with silver/4 LCR behind an AT screen. Using an SPL calculator, they will be pushed to their max to reach reference.
I have In-Room Silver LCR and sit about 12-13 ft. from the screen - so should be similar to your In-Wall path and seating distance. I can push them to reference (tried it once just to see if I could ) but reasonably I hardly ever watch movies at higher than -10db.

Do you REALLY plan to run at reference all the time?
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post #7232 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
I have In-Room Silver LCR and sit about 12-13 ft. from the screen - so should be similar to your In-Wall path and seating distance. I can push them to reference (tried it once just to see if I could ) but reasonably I hardly ever watch movies at higher than -10db.

Do you REALLY plan to run at reference all the time?
No, I don't, but I may sit in the second row of seats. I just always get nervous when I push anything to its limits. If it can't reach reference in the front row without distortion, then -10db might still be pushing it.

I guess bottom line is, would you buy them again for your setup?

Thanks for the input!
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post #7233 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
I guess bottom line is, would you buy them again for your setup?
Absolutely - I have been nothing but pleased
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post #7234 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 12:19 PM
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Absolutely - I have been nothing but pleased
Cool, thanks!
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post #7235 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 02:18 PM
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"Identical Voice" concept of Procella can be attributed to marketing ploy.............................only true means of "voicing" can be obtained by using same drivers across the board which is NOT happening with complete Procella line. In the hands of a talented calibrator, eq can integrate whole system to "voice" speakers with in room. Granted, I can read between the lines on your frustrations with Triad.......................I too would like to see Triad derive Atmos ceiliing products to match my current system.

To raise another point, as far as Procella products go, I'll use your very own words to describe their products.............."meh"......................
How much real world experience do you have with Procella? I've used them in many rooms and clients have never been less than thrilled. And I've used all kinds of combinations of their speakers. Many remark on the consistency and immersiveness of the surround experience. Precisely because the speakers are designed to be interchangeable.


There are only three speaker driver combinations in the Procella lineup:
1) The new P5
2) P6, P6V, P6IW, P610
3) P8, P28, P815, P860


If a designer sets out with the intent of making a timbre matched solution then assuming they know what they are doing then that is what they will end up with. They will select drivers and design the crossover and speaker for timbre matching. That's a lot better than a company which makes no mention of timbre matching and you can tell from their speakers that it is not a design priority for them.


I can think of nothing else that I'd rather use for most of the typical enthusiast projects I do. Trust me, I spend a lot of time looking at what is on the market and always strive to have what I feel is the best performance product at the price points my customers projects are at. No speaker is perfect but Procella have achieved a good compromise of output, sound quality, off axis performance, linearity, cost, form factor, size, sealed box loading, ability to be driven from an AVR and other factors. And sure, if my customers had really big budgets (as in >100k for speaker systems) I'd probably use something else.


In any event, it is always important to realize that people's choice in speakers is all over the place. That's why there are a gazillion speaker manufacturers out there. Some people like sound A and some like sound B. There is no "best" speaker. Looking at the top end two channel speakers (I'm talking $20k+ for a stereo pair) will quickly show that customer's tastes are all over the place.


Furthermore the speakers and acoustic design of the room go hand in hand. Just because you have heard a speaker doesn't mean you have really heard what it can sound like in a properly designed room. And the right room design for a compression driver on horn WILL be different in many, many ways than a design for a wide dispersion cone / dome. Many acoustic designers and treatment manufacturers unfortunately don't seem to understand that. The primary difference is in how much energy the speaker puts into the early and late arriving field, and the job of the acoustic designer is to manage that energy to deliver the desired result. Any company who is suggesting the same acoustic treatment design will work for Triads and Procella doesn't really understand the difference in the directivity of the two speakers and how they will "light up" the room.


One last thing. At calibration you cannot 100% timbre match different speakers using EQ. You can do a pretty decent job, but if you started with speakers that were designed to sound the same from the beginning then you only need to adjust for room effects. A speaker's sonic footprint is comprised of many things, and what you measure on an RTA or measurement system is the power response. You do not see the direct sound vs early reflected field vs late reflected field. You do not see the impulse response or spectral decay of the speaker (and even if you did, how would you use that information to EQ, and could you really make the responses identical?).

Acoustic Frontiers: design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.

Last edited by Nyal Mellor; Yesterday at 02:25 PM.
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post #7236 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
I can think of nothing else that I'd rather use for most of the typical enthusiast projects I do. Trust me, I spend a lot of time looking at what is on the market and always strive to have what I feel is the best performance product at the price points my customers projects are at. No speaker is perfect but Procella have achieved a good compromise of output, sound quality, off axis performance, linearity, cost, form factor, size, sealed box loading, ability to be driven from an AVR and other factors. And sure, if my customers had really big budgets (as in >100k for speaker systems) I'd probably use something else.
Nyal,

Do you realize that this the "Official" Triad thread? Your Procella-biased marketing rant is as unwelcome here as a pro-Triad marketing rant would be in the "Official" Procella thread. None of us Triad enthusiasts would ever considering going to that thread and making such biased and opinionated comments.

If you're such a Procella advocate, maybe you should stick to the "Official" Procella thread to blather about their speakers:
The Official Procella Audio Speakers Owners thread

For me, I have heard Procella speakers, and I currently own Triad speakers. I voted with my own $$$. To me, the Procella's sound like virtually every other horn-loaded, compression driver-based speaker I've ever heard. They have a "grittiness" or "bite" in the upper mid's and low treble that I find irritating and offensive. Frankly, if I were going to go with Compression Drivers, I would be much more prone to use JTR or Seaton products than the Procella's. IMO, they offer much better $/dB value than the Procella's.

Nonetheless, if Compression Drivers + Horns are what you like, (and certainly many, many people like compression driver + horn based speakers), that's fine. But please don't pollute the "Official" Triad thread with your bias and ranting.

Thanks.

Craig
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Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #7237 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
Nyal,

Do you realize that this the "Official" Triad thread? Your Procella-biased marketing rant is as unwelcome here as a pro-Triad marketing rant would be in the "Official" Procella thread. None of us Triad enthusiasts would ever considering going to that thread and making such biased and opinionated comments.

If you're such a Procella advocate, maybe you should stick to the "Official" Procella thread to blather about their speakers:
The Official Procella Audio Speakers Owners thread

For me, I have heard Procella speakers, and I currently own Triad speakers. I voted with my own $$$. To me, the Procella's sound like virtually every other horn-loaded, compression driver-based speaker I've ever heard. They have a "grittiness" or "bite" in the upper mid's and low treble that I find irritating and offensive. Frankly, if I were going to go with Compression Drivers, I would be much more prone to use JTR or Seaton products than the Procella's. IMO, they offer much better $/dB value than the Procella's.

Nonetheless, if Compression Drivers + Horns are what you like, (and certainly many, many people like compression driver + horn based speakers), that's fine. But please don't pollute the "Official" Triad thread with your bias and ranting.

Thanks.

Craig
Amen!!










Closest I came to liking compression drivers loaded in horns was Proaudiotech system which was best horn product I have heard up until I had a listen to Triad' Cinema Reference speakers. Though an unfair comparison since CR system uses AMT's!

Came real close to purchasing Proaudiotech speaker system with DSP amps.........but going back for a second and third listen to Triad's kept me from purchase.

I agree with you completely Craig John, horns with compression drivers are not my cup of tea! I've heard many expensive systems in my 2-1/2 year search........some in acoustically designed, treated rooms.....some not. While room plays biggest part in what we actually hear from speakers.......there's no disguising signature sound of compression drivers. Came to fore-mentioned conclusion from exhaustive research and time spent listening to systems.

Like yourself, I decided Triad was best solution for me.................

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post #7238 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 06:30 PM
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I was just responding to Doublewings post that had contained factually incorrect assertions about Procella's "Identical Voices" design criteria and how you can fix speaker timbre matching at calibration.

Acoustic Frontiers: design and creation of high performance listening rooms, home theaters and project studios for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.

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post #7239 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 06:45 PM
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I was just responding to Doublewings post...
And I was responding to your original post which started dialogue.......
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post #7240 of 7242 Old Yesterday, 07:03 PM
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And I was responding to your original post which started dialogue.......
No hard feelings. Sorry for offending the "Triad" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triad_(organized_crime)


Only kidding

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post #7241 of 7242 Old Today, 07:58 AM
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I was just responding to Doublewings post that had contained factually incorrect assertions about Procella's "Identical Voices" design criteria and how you can fix speaker timbre matching at calibration.
This wonderful conversation was started by you Nyal..................as I recall, it was your rant on Triad being behind the times....not me........why you jumped on your "Speaker's Corner" box and started raving about Procella I have no idea. Funny thing about Brits......their propensity for stubbornness, always have to have the last word. Remember, I'm half too.....

I had to respond due to incorrect assertions about my choice of speakers including attacks upon my choice of acoustical designer! My assertions are NOT incorrect.............besides, if I need to hire someone to design my room using hay bales, chicken wire, various thickness of regular, everyday insulation in my room.........I'm sure to look you up.

Don't you think it's wise to take Craig John's suggestion? Seems wise to me.............
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post #7242 of 7242 Old Today, 11:09 AM
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Hey Guys.

I think both sides are overreacting and unnecessarily personalizing each others comments and opinions.

I really hope this doesn't turn into a page of who can get the last word in.
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Regards,
John
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