Triad Owner's Thread - Page 244 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7291 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota View Post
Would two monopoles per side be better? Any suggestions for which monopole in-wall speaker? (Gold/4 Omni SE or Silver/4 Omni SE or Bronze/4 in-wall) I was just told not to use dipole with atmos (due to out of phase I presume). How do I match up four monopole speakers with Gold/6 LCR or Silver/6 LCR fronts? Cost comparison?


Please note that both rows of seats are right up against the right side wall. Where would you put the monopoles? Directly to the side, a little in front or a little behind each row (knowing you would have two on each side)


Also, how do I connect that? Just split the RCA out from the pre/pro or receiver and run to four separate amp channels? Or would I wire the speakers in parallel (both Left rears, both Right rears) into "one set" of rear surrounds (doubling the ohms, which for most Triad puts me at 8)?
With seating close to the side walls, I would use a single bipole surround speaker on each side. Now the decision on where to mount. It depends on how you use your system. For some, they realize that 90% of the time, it will just be two people in the theater and they optimize the setup for those two seats. For a very few people, all seats get used and then the compromise the surround speaker location to work okay for both rows, but not optimized for either row.

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post #7292 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
From my understanding, Triad will be offering Bipoles in their surrounds for a slight upgrade charge..........would work for Atmos. Stay clear of dipoles!

Gold LCR's with Gold Bipole surrounds will be outstanding.......could do similar with Silver LCR and Silver Bipole surrounds.
Let's say you are using Silver LCR for the mains - I thought ideally you would also use Silver LCR for all the surrounds. So do you mean Silver LCR as surrounds, or Silver Surrounds (the Triad product called that)? Silver LCR by itself, normally as an LCR, is in what type of configuration (bipole, monopole etc)? IIRC you are using Gold LCR and Silver LCR (and not Silver Surrounds) everywhere else except ceiling?
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post #7293 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Let's say you are using Silver LCR for the mains - I thought ideally you would also use Silver LCR for all the surrounds. So do you mean Silver LCR as surrounds, or Silver Surrounds (the Triad product called that)? Silver LCR by itself, normally as an LCR, is in what type of configuration (bipole, monopole etc)? IIRC you are using Gold LCR and Silver LCR (and not Silver Surrounds) everywhere else except ceiling?
If Silver Surrounds are bipole's......they would work with Silver LCR's. Silver LCR's all around would be BEST way to go.
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post #7294 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
With seating close to the side walls, I would use a single bipole surround speaker on each side. Now the decision on where to mount. It depends on how you use your system. For some, they realize that 90% of the time, it will just be two people in the theater and they optimize the setup for those two seats. For a very few people, all seats get used and then the compromise the surround speaker location to work okay for both rows, but not optimized for either row.
OK. I am a believer in the 90% rule. Back middle row for two is the 90%. I will totally compromise sound for the front row to a moderate extent to improve the rear row. Please tell me what this means for speaker placement. Does the surround sound totally fall apart if they are infront of the rear row (assuming bipoles). The catch here is if 4 monopoles like the Silver Omni SE which are single woofer single tweeter 2-ways are the same price as two gold/4 surrounds AND better for all seats, I'm OK going that direction. Also, I do have a seat in each row against the right wall, but the worst seat in the house is better than no seat, so it's not worth the dipole because Atmos is in the future.


Let's answer this first. Assume I only have the choice of bipole L/R for surrounds with two rows, favoring the back row. Where do I install the speaker in relation to the back row...
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post #7295 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
If Silver Surrounds are bipole's......they would work with Silver LCR's. Silver LCR's all around would be BEST way to go.
Even if Silver LCR's all around were best, where would you put the rears!?
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post #7296 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Let's say you are using Silver LCR for the mains - I thought ideally you would also use Silver LCR for all the surrounds.

This would be ideal but depending on your situation other speakers may work well. The Silver LCR is a monopole speaker.


The silver surround has two small drivers aiming in different directions. Typically, this has been used in the dipole configuration. This means while one driver is going in the other one is going out. they are what is called out of phase. This causes some sound cancellation directly in front of the speaker creating a more diffuse sound that is more difficult to locate where the sound is coming from. This was preferred years ago to get more envelopment.


It is now available in a bipole configuration. Here the two drivers play at the same time or in phase. Because you are using two drivers it covers a wider range than just one driver. It is still localizable and that is a good thing especially for Atmos. It makes panning from one speaker to the next more realistic, this is also true of monopoles. Monopoles just can't cover as large of a seating area. If you only have one row of seats monopoles might be the best choice or you can use a pair of monopoles for each row but that requires more expensive processor or an additional DSP unit added to current processors.
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post #7297 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
In general monopoles are a good choice and with two rows you would want one pair for each row. With the exception of a few processors you have to add some DSP boxes so you can adjust levels and delays for the extra surrounds. Bipoles are a good choice if trying to cover a larger area with one set of surround speakers. Dipoles are a good choice if seating is close to the speaker to help reduce the speaker in the ear effect and make a more diffuse less localizable sound. Ideally identical speakers all around would be preferred but you should get surrounds that best fit your application.
Unfortunately, I have all these problems at once. I believe bipoles are going to win out at the end of this for me as the "few processors and DSP boxes" is starting to sound like a PITA. If bipoles are the way to go with gold/6 LCR as fronts, would gold/4 surround bipoles be total overkill for my room or just really nice to have. I know it's subjective but I'd be buying these speakers without ever hearing them in a house I've never been in! (cause I'm building it right now)
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post #7298 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:55 PM
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In your case -- narrow room and two rows to cover -- I think bipole surrounds are the correct application if you want to keep things simple. I'd mount them to the sides of the second row. And a bit above head level.

As said above don't confuse bipole with dipole. In a way you can think of a bipole as a wide dispersion monopole. You'll get broader coverage and a higher ratio of reflected sound to help immersion while still having the ability to localize discrete effects.
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post #7299 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:56 PM
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With respect to gold vs silver surrounds, I'm not an expert in Triad speakers but I would think silver would be fine if you need the wiggle room in the budget. The SPL needs won't be as great for the surrounds and it's definitely the place to compromise vs front LCR and subs, acoustic treatments etc.
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post #7300 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota View Post
Unfortunately, I have all these problems at once. I believe bipoles are going to win out at the end of this for me as the "few processors and DSP boxes" is starting to sound like a PITA. If bipoles are the way to go with gold/6 LCR as fronts, would gold/4 surround bipoles be total overkill for my room or just really nice to have. I know it's subjective but I'd be buying these speakers without ever hearing them in a house I've never been in! (cause I'm building it right now)
I can assure you........

Going Gold LCR's with Gold Surrounds that are bipoles would be out standing........and for your room the best best!
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post #7301 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
This would be ideal but depending on your situation other speakers may work well. The Silver LCR is a monopole speaker.


The silver surround has two small drivers aiming in different directions. Typically, this has been used in the dipole configuration. This means while one driver is going in the other one is going out. they are what is called out of phase. This causes some sound cancellation directly in front of the speaker creating a more diffuse sound that is more difficult to locate where the sound is coming from. This was preferred years ago to get more envelopment.


It is now available in a bipole configuration. Here the two drivers play at the same time or in phase. Because you are using two drivers it covers a wider range than just one driver. It is still localizable and that is a good thing especially for Atmos. It makes panning from one speaker to the next more realistic, this is also true of monopoles. Monopoles just can't cover as large of a seating area. If you only have one row of seats monopoles might be the best choice or you can use a pair of monopoles for each row but that requires more expensive processor or an additional DSP unit added to current processors.
Thanks for the detailed explanation! Can it work to have top-front speakers as monopoles and top-rear as bipoles? Please consider this scenario:



Current thinking is front 3 are Gold LCRs, all other listening-level speakers are Silver LCRs. In the top-front use Triad Omni SE in-ceiling speakers with 45 degree baffle. Considering my front row is about 42 degrees from the speakers that seems perfect. Then for the top-rears, which are actually in between the first and second row, what would be a good match? The front row is 36 degrees from that speaker. I couldn't use the Omni SE in-ceiling back there because no sound would reach the back row. The in-wall Omni SE doesn't have enough dispersion to do well at 36 degrees so that rules that out. Maybe the in-wall Silver/4 Surround in bipole. Perhaps that would do well back there, sending sound to both the front and back row (back row angle is 41 degrees). Tho I don't know if its an issue that the woofer is out of the vertical dispersion range then for both rows. And although this is a lower sensitivity speaker, I understand some sensitivity is gained when you go with a bipole configuration?

But, but... this is overlooking what may be a very important issue which is that these in-ceiling speakers are not dual concentric. Given the wide angle needed, especially for the top-rears where the angle is wide in both directions, this may not be a good fit for the Triad line in my case. Without a dual concentric driver there will be a suckout, that is a given. The question is, how wide is the suckout, and at which frequency does it occur? If that is known, it may be possible (depending on those results) to position the speakers in such a way that the suckout does not occur in any of the main listening positions. But without this data I don't want to just wing it... From what I learned that is a big benefit of the dual concentric design - much easier to design a room for and use without as much attention to detailed needed on the exact placements.
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post #7302 of 7303 Old Yesterday, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
In your case -- narrow room and two rows to cover -- I think bipole surrounds are the correct application if you want to keep things simple. I'd mount them to the sides of the second row. And a bit above head level.

As said above don't confuse bipole with dipole. In a way you can think of a bipole as a wide dispersion monopole. You'll get broader coverage and a higher ratio of reflected sound to help immersion while still having the ability to localize discrete effects.
Got it. Bipoles it is. Now I just need to know if silver vs gold surround bipoles is a toss up, or heavily suggested one way or another.


You guys are responding fast enough I can't read all replies before I post! Thanks for all the comments and information. My current go to is Gold/6 LCR in front with Gold/4 surround bipoles just above ear level of the rear row. If the pricing can't be done, I'll drop to the silvers in the same location. Thanks!

Last edited by Highplainsdakota; Yesterday at 09:16 PM.
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Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota View Post
Got it. Bipoles it is. Now I just need to know if silver vs gold surround bipoles is a toss up, or heavily suggested one way or another.


You guys are responding fast enough I can't read all replies before I post! Thanks for all the comments and information. My current go to is Gold/6 LCR in front with Gold/4 surround bipoles just above ear level of the rear row. If the pricing can't be done, I'll drop to the silvers in the same location. Thanks!
You could do four side speakers instead of bipoles. You would need to calibrate correctly, but that would be ideal for coverage.
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