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post #7501 of 7523 Old 08-18-2015, 04:24 AM
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I do know that on the opposite end -- ceilings over 14 feet -- you nearly always want overhead height speakers. I'm guessing that signal delay rates have something to with the margins used when bouncing off the ceiling.


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post #7502 of 7523 Old 08-18-2015, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
You're saying in ceiling is better for under 8'? Why do you say that?
Now don't go putting words in my mouth! I didn't say anything of the sort!

I've heard Atmos with discrete speakers with 9 ft ceilings and it worked fantastic.........my experiments with 10.5ft ceiling works too.. I've heard Atmos enabled speakers with 10-11 ft ceiling and it works but I much prefer discrete ceiling channels. Never heard Atmos with less than 8 ft ceilings...........and from my experimentation feel low ceilings are extremely difficult and have said on several occations in my build thread Atmos enabled would be only choice. Having never heard Atmos on extremely low ceiling..........for me........"The jury is still out" due to knowing how difficult it can be!
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post #7503 of 7523 Old 08-18-2015, 12:21 PM
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There's a couple of issues here....

With extremely high ceilings, eventually you'll reach a point where the reflection is so diffuse that it becomes inaudible above the other reflections bouncing around the room and your brain interprets it as part of the "mush" of reflected energy instead of as a discrete sound. If you imagine shining a flashlight at the ceiling as an analogy for the "cone" of higher freq sound energy, the higher the ceiling is the more the sound spreads out and the reflection becomes less of a "beam".

With extremely low ceilings, the big issues is the geometry of the angle of incidence of the reflection. A typical "Atmos enabled" speaker is tilted at a 20 degree angle. If you only have 7 foot ceilings, and the module is placed at a height of 4 feet to be a bit above ear level, in the three feet the sound has to travel up to the ceiling it's only going to hit the ceiling a lateral distance about 1 foot in front of the Atmos module. Which means the "bounce" isn't going to be anywhere close to your seating position.

Basically you need enough height for the bounce to have room to travel and bounce back sort of close to where you are listening.... but you also need it low enough for the bounce to still be somewhat "beamy" and not become so diffuse that it's inaudible.

If this stuff doesn't work out right, then you lose that sensation of true overhead sound and instead it just sounds like a mushy "elevation" of the floor level sound.

The counter point is that with low ceilings you may be so close to physical on/in-ceiling speakers that they can "hot spot" and be distracting... those who attended Dolby demos and preferred the Atmos-enabled modules typically cited the fact that they found the more diffuse sound to be more enveloping/immersive. But the advantage of on/in-ceiling speakers is the sound is definitely going to sound like it's above you.
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post #7504 of 7523 Old 08-18-2015, 12:25 PM
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@batpig how do you like your new Bronze?

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Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #7505 of 7523 Old 08-18-2015, 06:35 PM
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Found an old Triad dual subwoofer, serial number 12458 out of the Carbondale, CO factory. Would love any information on it.
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post #7506 of 7523 Old 08-18-2015, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
There's a couple of issues here....

With extremely high ceilings, eventually you'll reach a point where the reflection is so diffuse that it becomes inaudible above the other reflections bouncing around the room and your brain interprets it as part of the "mush" of reflected energy instead of as a discrete sound. If you imagine shining a flashlight at the ceiling as an analogy for the "cone" of higher freq sound energy, the higher the ceiling is the more the sound spreads out and the reflection becomes less of a "beam".

With extremely low ceilings, the big issues is the geometry of the angle of incidence of the reflection. A typical "Atmos enabled" speaker is tilted at a 20 degree angle. If you only have 7 foot ceilings, and the module is placed at a height of 4 feet to be a bit above ear level, in the three feet the sound has to travel up to the ceiling it's only going to hit the ceiling a lateral distance about 1 foot in front of the Atmos module. Which means the "bounce" isn't going to be anywhere close to your seating position.

Basically you need enough height for the bounce to have room to travel and bounce back sort of close to where you are listening.... but you also need it low enough for the bounce to still be somewhat "beamy" and not become so diffuse that it's inaudible.

If this stuff doesn't work out right, then you lose that sensation of true overhead sound and instead it just sounds like a mushy "elevation" of the floor level sound.

The counter point is that with low ceilings you may be so close to physical on/in-ceiling speakers that they can "hot spot" and be distracting... those who attended Dolby demos and preferred the Atmos-enabled modules typically cited the fact that they found the more diffuse sound to be more enveloping/immersive. But the advantage of on/in-ceiling speakers is the sound is definitely going to sound like it's above you.

You walk the fine line between directional clues without hotspotting and total diffusion without directional cues................not much room for error. My self personally, I prefer hearing direction of sound rather than complete diffusion ie not knowing exactly where sound came from.
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post #7507 of 7523 Old 08-19-2015, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davethegnome View Post
Found an old Triad dual subwoofer, serial number 12458 out of the Carbondale, CO factory. Would love any information on it.
Give Triad a call, and they will be happy to decode that serial number for you: 503.256.2600, or 800.666.6316.


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post #7508 of 7523 Old 08-21-2015, 04:21 PM
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Ok so got the system up and running now...Triad LR-H, InRoom Bronze Center and 2 OnWall Bronze Surrounds. Still waiting on my amp and new receiver for Atmos but even in it's current form running on an Onkyo TXNR818 I'm staggered at it's clarity. Using a DefTech Supercube 6000 and I love the match personally. Room is about 15'L x 12'W living room. Marantz SR6010 used as a preamp will be had the moment it's out, about 2 weeks to go! Going from BP8080ST DefTech Setup and the clarity and soundstage is unbelievable and smooth. Couldn't be happier. Nice to finally own some Triads.
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post #7509 of 7523 Old 08-21-2015, 04:43 PM
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@batpig how do you like your new Bronze?
Sorry I just noticed this one -- I'm loving them! As amblinfan noted above, these speakers have astonishing clarity and detail. They're capable of playing as loud as I want them to go in my room with power and dynamic punch. Unfortunately they also expose my other speakers as being weaker performers

I'm definitely glad I was patient and held out for Bronze LCRs. I almost jumped a couple of times on lesser options (e.g. a trio of Mini LCR's sort of local to me off Craigslist, or something like Bronze or Silver Sats). Ironically, after all my waiting, now there's Bronze LCR's everywhere -- in addition to the three I bought off eBay, there's yours of course, plus another seller on eBay selling a trio, and then another seller on eBay who has three more Bronze LCR's as individual items.

While I'm a beneficiary, it's somewhat shocking to me how poor the resale value is on these older Triads. The other seller I noted has the trio listed at $300+shipping and he got zero bids on his first try and still has zero bids on the relisting. The second one with individuals has them listed at $110-120 each + shipping (or best offer) and has had to relist them too. Now, some of them are a little roughed up cosmetically, but it's just ridiculous that you can get speakers of that quality for $100 a pop! I'm actually tempted to pick up one of the singles to give me a perfectly matched trio up front (one of the Bronze LCR's I got was a slightly older version ~2004 with the cloth grill).... and maybe keep the spare around for parts in case I blow a driver (since Triad has told me it may be hard to find those discontinued Vifa/Peerless units).

The one caveat is that while I'm hugely appreciative of their linearity, clarity and dynamics for HT use, I'm still struggling a bit trying to find good settings for music. My previous speakers were Energy RC's, which were well known for being smooth and "laid back"... they had this really luscious, liquid sound that was phenomenal with acoustic instruments, female vocals etc. The downside to that "laid back" sound was that they could sound a bit recessed/congested with complex material and powerful movie dynamics, and the Bronze LCR's crush them in that respect... but the flip side is that the Triads are so clear and linear that they sound a bit forward/bright to me with music. Some of it is probably just my need to adjust, some of it is finding the right mic positions to make Audyssey happy with them, some of it will come when I add some treatments to soften up the room acoustics.

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post #7510 of 7523 Old 08-22-2015, 07:28 AM
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Hooked up my Adcom amp to the system and another step in clarity has been achieved! Just couldn't be happier. Heard a lot about this system from people at CEDIA last year (was unable to attend but am going this year) and I was thinking of going Silver LR-H but everyone at Triad said the Bronze LR-H is a serious performer and they were right! I've heard a lot of Triad over the years and I am always impressed. I constantly fiddle with my system but I haven't been this happy with it in a long time even before the Marantz SR-6010 comes.
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post #7511 of 7523 Old 08-23-2015, 06:34 AM
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Question Dented Fabric Cover on Tweeter

Will a dented tweeter dome affect the audio quality of a Gold LCR in any way? Should I get a new tweeter? See included picture.

Thank you,

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post #7512 of 7523 Old 08-23-2015, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
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Will a dented tweeter dome affect the audio quality of a Gold LCR in any way? Should I get a new tweeter? See included picture.

Thank you,

Geordon
Imma go out on a limb and say yes. Yes, that will impact sound quality.
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post #7513 of 7523 Old 08-23-2015, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
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Will a dented tweeter dome affect the audio quality of a Gold LCR in any way? Should I get a new tweeter? See included picture.

Thank you,

Geordon
One way to know for sure - you could take a near-field measurement (aka put mike say 4-6" from tweeter) from 20 Hz - 20 kHz and compare the frequency response to your other identical speaker that is not dented. I would think it is likely that the speaker performance is being impacted, but hard to know to what extent and in what frequencies. You may find from the measurements that it only impacts the very high end (mostly inaudible except perhaps to kids) and only by a little, in which case you wouldn't have to worry about it. If you are new to the idea of measuring speakers do a search on Room Equalization Wizard (REW). It is free, but you may need to buy a mic for about $100. Good to have for other reasons such as checking your system for distortion, performing EQ, etc.
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post #7514 of 7523 Old 08-23-2015, 08:23 AM
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I think it would definitely affect the sound. Call Triad (repair dept) and ask them to send you a new one. Don't know what the cost would be, but they can tell you.


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post #7515 of 7523 Old 08-23-2015, 08:34 AM
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Old trick, surprised you guys don't know it... Take a vacuum and use the attachment end with no attachment, just the round tube. It is best to reduce the suction strength by putting on extensions and opening a flow value if you have it. If not, use a paper towel roll and cut slots so air can be let it.
This will gently pull the dome out

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post #7516 of 7523 Old 08-23-2015, 01:39 PM
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Old trick, surprised you guys don't know it... Take a vacuum and use the attachment end with no attachment, just the round tube. It is best to reduce the suction strength by putting on extensions and opening a flow value if you have it. If not, use a paper towel roll and cut slots so air can be let it.
This will gently pull the dome out

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I was actually thinking of trying that. Thanks for the tips on reducing the vacuum pressure. Sounds like I would start out low, and work my way up, if need be.

Dawn, I will call Triad and check the cost of a replacement.

Thanks,

Geordon
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post #7517 of 7523 Old 08-24-2015, 05:16 AM
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Never heard of the vacuum solution. Sounds like it's definitely worth a try before you call Triad.


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post #7518 of 7523 Old 08-24-2015, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordon View Post
Will a dented tweeter dome affect the audio quality of a Gold LCR in any way? Should I get a new tweeter? See included picture.

Thank you,

Geordon
For a soft dome, you can try to pull it out with painters tape. If that does not work, you can try a shop vac. Just be carefull with shop vac. You want to keep a gap on one side, so that you do not apply full suction. Yours will definitely require a vac.

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I guess I should have read to the end.

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post #7519 of 7523 Old 08-24-2015, 09:40 AM
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I was actually thinking of trying that. Thanks for the tips on reducing the vacuum pressure. Sounds like I would start out low, and work my way up, if need be.

Dawn, I will call Triad and check the cost of a replacement.

Thanks,

Geordon
I called Triad repair, and they gave the same advice about using the painter's tape to try and pop the dome back out. Recommended putting the speaker in the sun to warm up the fabric and allow it to be a little more flexible. The technician said the dented dome may affect dispersion slightly. Good news is that replacement cost is pretty reasonable, assuming I don't destroy anything while soldering it back in.

Geordon
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post #7520 of 7523 Old 08-24-2015, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordon View Post
I called Triad repair, and they gave the same advice about using the painter's tape to try and pop the dome back out. Recommended putting the speaker in the sun to warm up the fabric and allow it to be a little more flexible. The technician said the dented dome may affect dispersion slightly. Good news is that replacement cost is pretty reasonable, assuming I don't destroy anything while soldering it back in.

Geordon
The vac method will pop the dent out. You will have some slight crease lines that will show, but you should be good to go. Just have to be very careful and not suck the dust cap off the driver. I usually place my finger over one edge of the vac tube, creating an air gap.

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post #7521 of 7523 Old Yesterday, 07:37 AM
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Any suggestions or recommendations for matching sides, rears and two ceiling mounted atmos speakers to match a front stage of InRoom LCR golds and Gold center?

Debating between the InRoom satellite bronze, silver or the InRoom LCR mini. 6 total. The LCR Mini is 4 ohms versus 8 for the satellites and is most efficient at 87.5 db. I need the rears, sides and atmos speakers to be fairly small and unobtrusive. I also need to be able to mount them at the wall/ceiling junction and point them all. My room configuration is non standard.

Thx
Mike


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post #7522 of 7523 Old Yesterday, 05:02 PM
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Use a piece of black electrical tape. Use a piece of tape 1.5 to 2.0 inches long wrap it around your index finger sticky side out gently press on dome hold for 30 seconds and gently pull.

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post #7523 of 7523 Old Today, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopShoe View Post
Any suggestions or recommendations for matching sides, rears and two ceiling mounted atmos speakers to match a front stage of InRoom LCR golds and Gold center?

Debating between the InRoom satellite bronze, silver or the InRoom LCR mini. 6 total. The LCR Mini is 4 ohms versus 8 for the satellites and is most efficient at 87.5 db. I need the rears, sides and atmos speakers to be fairly small and unobtrusive. I also need to be able to mount them at the wall/ceiling junction and point them all. My room configuration is non standard.

Thx
Mike


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Mike,

I answered your question in a different thread. Go with the Gold Omni SE.


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