Triad Owner's Thread - Page 284 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 488Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #8491 of 8517 Old 04-11-2017, 05:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 6,766
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
For what it's worth, Triad still recommends bipole (not dipole) surrounds for Atmos if you're <6ft from the surround speakers (i.e. a really small room). I imagine when you're squeezing in close to the surrounds you have to make a trade-off between absolute directional precision, with the risk of annoying hot-spotting, versus a more immersive but slightly less "precise" presentation from a bipole.
That's a good point. It is definitely a trade off one way or another, and I would be curious to compare both, back to back. In my space, I can only compare my old Dipole setup with my current direct radiating setup. No contest. But it's not the same thing, of course.

The Triad info is interesting: if a regular couch is 7 feet wide, and one wants all the seats to meet their criteria, no one with a room less that 19 feet wide would use direct radiating speakers for the surrounds.

My personal compromise: My room is about 12.x" wide. So when I am in the captain's seat, I am far enough away from the surrounds for "perfection" -- and while the other seats are a bit compromised, they would have been, anyway, with bipoles, but those bipoles would have ALSO compromised my "money seat". So I feel like I chose the lesser of two evils. Others' mileage will vary, of course.

____________________

Current theater & gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
nathan_h is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8492 of 8517 Old 04-12-2017, 07:52 AM
Newbie
 
zymaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The speaker posts on the subwoofer are an ALTERNATIVE method of connection if your receiver doesn't have an RCA pre-out to directly feed the sub with a line level signal. If using any modern digital receiver, there will be a dedicated RCA subwoofer pre-out which will feed those RCA inputs on the sub and you will NOT use the speaker wire connections to the sub. Ideally the receiver provides bass management to filter the low bass from the satellites and redirect it to the sub.

If you are using an old stereo receiver that doesn't have a subwoofer pre-out, you would do a parallel speaker wire connection to BOTH the satellite speaker and the subwoofer speaker wire inputs.
That clears up that mystery (to me at least) thanks for your time and advice and patience Batpig!
zymaze is offline  
post #8493 of 8517 Old 04-12-2017, 09:58 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 28,389
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3624 Post(s)
Liked: 3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
My personal compromise: My room is about 12.x" wide. So when I am in the captain's seat, I am far enough away from the surrounds for "perfection" -- and while the other seats are a bit compromised, they would have been, anyway, with bipoles, but those bipoles would have ALSO compromised my "money seat". So I feel like I chose the lesser of two evils. Others' mileage will vary, of course.
Interesting. Have you sat on the side seats? How does it sound, are there hot-spotting issues which impact the cohesion of the surround field?

My room is 15.5' wide so plenty of room at the center seat but it's a big couch, so the side positions are only a few feet from the surround speaker. Currently I use some old KEF satellites for surrounds and I'm still debating my long term plan for replacing them.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
 
post #8494 of 8517 Old 04-12-2017, 10:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 6,766
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Interesting. Have you sat on the side seats? How does it sound, are there hot-spotting issues which impact the cohesion of the surround field?

My room is 15.5' wide so plenty of room at the center seat but it's a big couch, so the side positions are only a few feet from the surround speaker. Currently I use some old KEF satellites for surrounds and I'm still debating my long term plan for replacing them.
When sitting in the side seats (which are c. 3' from the side surround) I occasionally notice a little hot spotting from that speaker. My solution is to not sit there for critical viewing. I would guess your KEF setup would give you an accurate approximation.

Frankly, I'd rather compromise the non perfect seats a little, to have my main seat "perfect". The rare occasion when I end up in the non perfect seat, I'd rather than dial down the surrounds a touch for that one movie, if it really bothers me.

CAVEAT: I have never heard BIPOLEs in my room. I did have the Triad DIPOLES and while they solved the proximity issue, they really message up the coherence of the surround sound stage, imo. Mine is a small room. I ended up turning them off, in fact, and using speakers in the rear corners as "surrounds" in the 5.1 config, which was much better than using the DIPOLES.

But the BIPOLES would be worth auditioning, if the way I have chosen to compromise doesn't work in your room.







____________________

Current theater & gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
nathan_h is online now  
post #8495 of 8517 Old 04-12-2017, 11:36 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 28,389
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3624 Post(s)
Liked: 3471
awesome, great stuff Nathan

what software is the 3D modeling? sketchup or sweet home 3D?

out of curiosity what drove the decision to have one back corner be absorption and the other one to be diffusion? All of the other treatments seem fairly symmetrical.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #8496 of 8517 Old 04-12-2017, 02:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 6,766
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
awesome, great stuff Nathan

what software is the 3D modeling? sketchup or sweet home 3D?

out of curiosity what drove the decision to have one back corner be absorption and the other one to be diffusion? All of the other treatments seem fairly symmetrical.
That's the free version of Sweet Home 3d. I tried Sketchup years ago (when it was free) and it was overkill for my needs. And today it costs hundreds of bucks, I think, and is probably even more overkill.

I ended up with an odd number of treatments/locations for treatments in the back of the room. Between having a small desk and such, it ended up asymmetrical by necessity, anyway.

____________________

Current theater & gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
nathan_h is online now  
post #8497 of 8517 Old 04-13-2017, 05:53 AM
Senior Member
 
jedi1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowboardheathen View Post
Purchased our home last year and it came with older Paradigm Cinema 7.1 gear. All is still in great shape but I've been wanting to upgrade the screen size (94"), projector (Panasonic AE4000U) etc and have finally gotten to it.

I am upgrading to a Epson LS10000 w/123" CI Slate ZeroEdge and the Marantz SR6011 with a Parasound 275 v2 for 7.2.4 Atmos. When we moved in I replaced the Paradigm LCRs with my own 2x Def Tech Mythos Two's and a Mythos Three.

Our space isn't very big (15 x 15 x 11) and is somewhat rounded on the screen wall (see pic), but I want a nice clean sound w/o over killing it.

Initially I'm thinking of keeping my Mythos while I hunt out some on-walls that will work in our space. (Only have about 6-8 inches on either side of my screen before the wall slants.) I'd like to get some Triad on-walls that are fit for the space after I get everything else done.

My plan now is to go with the following:
- 2x Triad (on-wall) [One wall doesn't have the clearance for in-wall] Silver Surr
- 2x Triad (in-wall) Silver/4 Sat for rear.
- 4x Triad Silver OpenRound for Atmos. [I had hoped to go with Triad Silver SealedRound but after cutting ceiling found don't have clearance in 1 of the fronts.] I'm going to try to squeeze the Triad Silver OpenBack if I can get it to work, but otherwise will have to be Mini OpenRound or similar. The rear Atmos have lots of space, but I think its better to use 2 pair of matching for Atmos?
- 2x (in-room) OmniSub 12

We have 2 rows of seating in this small space (back row on risers) and 4 x pocket doors on the back wall. So, obviously not ideal but trying to make the best of what I have.

Thought I would reach out for some recommendations / considerations.

The questions I have:
1) Are the Silver too much for this space? Would the Bronze or another be better suited?
2) I was very disappointed after cutting the front 2 Atmos to find drainage pipes. Nothing easy to move without opening up the ceiling, fixing pipes, drywall, and restamping. A lot more than I want to take on right now. The Silver SealedRound and/or OpenRound would easily fit in the back Atmos but I don't like the idea of mixing the speakers and having more powerful ones in the back, so plan to just match all. Any thoughts on this?
3) If I end up going silver are there matching OnWall Silver LCRs? Looking at the website I only see Bronze / Gold OnWalls.
4) Anything else I should consider? Overlooked? (Besides moving to a house with a bigger HT

Added a rough drawing on some old plans for reference and a few pics before the remodel and during.

Appreciate any feedback as I try to dial this in.


Thanks
My home theater will be 15 x 24 (-3 for false wall) and will be using Bronze inwall Surrounds and Bronze inceiling sealedround speakers. I see really the only difference between the Bronze and the Silver is the driver. For someone who doesn't work in the audio field and have extremely specialized equipment, you should *hear* no difference between the silver and bronze for the size of room.
jedi1982 is online now  
post #8498 of 8517 Old 04-13-2017, 08:21 PM
Newbie
 
VARestless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
If row two is important for critical listening and close to the back wall, don't use rear surrounds. Just box that extra pair up and sell them. Place the side surrounds between the rows.

My row two is on the back wall. But I chose to use back surrounds because row two in my room is for very rare guests who don't care. And my side surrounds are within inches of being lateral to my first row. Great immersion from the first row.

So I would recommend this setup if row two is for non critical listeners.

If possible, get the surrounds wired for bipole rather than dipole dispersion. I went so far as to get LCR speakers for surrounds.

And: Save the inceiling speakers for Atmos, though as a precursor definitely make sure the surrounds are at least bipole before going for Atmos.
Nathan - sensible thoughts but I have been fighting against compromise (mostly foolishly - physics wins!). My back wall will also be for surge for guests happy just to be there.

In followup -
1) Already have the IW/4 surrounds, anticipate them to be dipoles per the normal configuration from Triad. If dipoles discouraged, perhaps nod to using the IC/8 LCR for better directionality and slight additional distance. Or perhaps yet a different speaker (yikes!)
2) Inspired by your Sweethome 3D model, will post a 3D representation - straightforward, but has taken a bit of time.

Thanks!

Phased Adaptive Approach Theater (tentative)
VARestless is offline  
post #8499 of 8517 Old 04-13-2017, 09:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 6,766
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by VARestless View Post
Nathan - sensible thoughts but I have been fighting against compromise (mostly foolishly - physics wins!). My back wall will also be for surge for guests happy just to be there.

In followup -
1) Already have the IW/4 surrounds, anticipate them to be dipoles per the normal configuration from Triad. If dipoles discouraged, perhaps nod to using the IC/8 LCR for better directionality and slight additional distance. Or perhaps yet a different speaker (yikes!)
2) Inspired by your Sweethome 3D model, will post a 3D representation - straightforward, but has taken a bit of time.

Thanks!
My opinion is that there will always be compromises. Just be aware of what you are choosing and why so that you can make smart compromises.

I don't think that using overheads (and those are good ones for sure!) for surround speakers makes much sense. If course, the DIPOLE surrounds are not ideal, either. But in a small room, and not doing ATMOS, they may be okay. And Triad may offer an upgrade path to convert them from DIPOLE to BIPOLE if they are a relatively recent vintage. But at that point, I would be tempted to sell the four surrounds and the overheads and buy two LCR speakers for left and right surround, instead.

But again, that would be a compromise for people sitting close to them.... even though you, in the money seat, would get the best experience possible.

____________________

Current theater & gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
nathan_h is online now  
post #8500 of 8517 Old 04-13-2017, 09:38 PM
Newbie
 
VARestless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
If row two is important for critical listening and close to the back wall, don't use rear surrounds. Just box that extra pair up and sell them. Place the side surrounds between the rows.

My row two is on the back wall. But I chose to use back surrounds because row two in my room is for very rare guests who don't care. And my side surrounds are within inches of being lateral to my first row. Great immersion from the first row.

So I would recommend this setup if row two is for non critical listeners.

If possible, get the surrounds wired for bipole rather than dipole dispersion. I went so far as to get LCR speakers for surrounds.

And: Save the inceiling speakers for Atmos, though as a precursor definitely make sure the surrounds are at least bipole before going for Atmos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
For what it's worth, Triad still recommends bipole (not dipole) surrounds for Atmos if you're <6ft from the surround speakers (i.e. a really small room). I imagine when you're squeezing in close to the surrounds you have to make a trade-off between absolute directional precision, with the risk of annoying hot-spotting, versus a more immersive but slightly less "precise" presentation from a bipole.
Ahhh...in addition to being too close (<6 feet), forgot the dipole/bipole aspect. If I recall, there is some thought needed to placing dipole speakers so they do not compete/cancel. The IW Bronze/4 Surrounds come default as dipole.

"Knowledge is good," but hurts sometimes. Thanks Batpig/Nathan!

Phased Adaptive Approach Theater (tentative)

Last edited by VARestless; 04-13-2017 at 09:49 PM.
VARestless is offline  
post #8501 of 8517 Old 04-14-2017, 08:45 PM
Newbie
 
VARestless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Triad Menagerie (visual edition)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
If row two is important for critical listening and close to the back wall, don't use rear surrounds. Just box that extra pair up and sell them. Place the side surrounds between the rows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VARestless View Post
Seeking assistance on sensible configuration. I acquired a menagerie - through planning changes and package deals - not deliberate planning. I have:

3 InWall Silver/6 LCR
4 InWall Bronze/4 Surround
4 InCeiling Bronze/8 LCR
2 InWall Bronze/6 Subwoofer (subject for follow up question)

Room is ~19' long; 13' wide up front, 16' wide in back; 8' height, asymmetric aisle in rear; open rear. Two rows of seats, back row aisle is 30" on left, 52" on right.

Easy part is 3 InWall Silver/6 LCR and 2 InWall Bronze/4 Surround at side first row. Room widens after first row, and doesn't seem viable to put side surround further back.

This leaves 2 InWall Bronze/4 Surround and 4 InCeiling Bronze/8 LCR. Configuration questions are:
- Two Bronze/4 Surround at back row sides (have seen "extra" side surrounds in some theaters, could use help how to implement)
- Two Bronze/4 Surround at rear (will be very close to rear row seats).
- Use InCeiling Bronze/8 LCR for surround(s)
- Two InCeiling Bronze/8 LCR for rear (can back speakers off rear seats abit)
- Two InCeiling Bronze/8 LCR for heights/wides (have seen a few theaters with these)
- Two or four InCeiling Bronze/8 LCR for future Atmos (have no plans for this, current AVR receiver does not have capability).
- Other?

I do not feel compelled to use them all. Many thanks!
Nathan/Batpig/et al.,
Many good thoughts already. Room does not quite lend itself to placing the surrounds between the rows with the wider area on one side.

This is a visual community, and I should have communicated better.

2D Layout - Green are my thoughts at speaker placement, Orange as alternatives.

Some 3D renderings, green as baseline:





Orange as alternative


Maybe some mix?


Configuration thoughts:
- IW Bronze/4 Surrounds used as one or two sets of surrounds, IC Bronze/8 LCR as rears - two remaining IC LCRs (atmos?). IC height provides slight additional distance (~4ft) + greater directionality over dipole surrounds. Perhaps fouls Atmos. Surrounds are asymmetric, and one side is close (~2.5 ft) to the back chair, second row of surrounds adds dipole interaction to planning.
- Perhaps use IW Bronze/4 surrounds as rears but is still close (~2.5ft to 3ft the outside back chairs), not sure of dipole interaction of rear and and sides; use the IC Bronze/8 as Atmos (some day)

Additionally:
- Any love for heights/wides?
- If I did want to have a second set of side surrounds, how should they be laid out and connected to the AVR? I think I recall something about a layout alternating Lefts and Rights on each side. Similar interest for the interaction between the side surround and rear dipole speakers in close proximity.

Starting to lean towards (ugh!) replacing side IW Surrounds with IW LCR, ending the dipole interaction considerations.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sweet_Home_3D_Home_Theater_Only_e_Apr_13_2017 2D Cropped-page-001 (1).jpg
Views:	132
Size:	62.0 KB
ID:	2085113  

Phased Adaptive Approach Theater (tentative)
VARestless is offline  
post #8502 of 8517 Old 04-14-2017, 11:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 6,766
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked: 684
My choice would be the green placement minus the second set of side surrounds for row two. They may help row two but may muddy row 1, especially if they are dipoles.

Your ceiling speakers will be cool for Atmos.
VARestless likes this.

____________________

Current theater & gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
nathan_h is online now  
post #8503 of 8517 Old 04-16-2017, 07:32 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hello,

my name is David from Germany and I am the owner of 3x IC Bronze/8 (used as LCR), 2x IC Bronze/8 SAT (used as Surrounds, turned towards the backwall to get a more diffuse sound). Everything is installed in my living room (5.2 setup), some years ago. I also have a Triad RackAmp 350 and two Mini Sub Duo (8Ohm). One is installed in the front, the other one is now moved to the back (both in ceilling). I am aware that the response time of both Subs is different. Thus I would like to add another RackAmp 350 and drive only one Subwoofer from each RackAmp. Is it possible?
Do I have to convert the 8Ohm Sub into a 4Ohm Sub? If yes, does Triad offer such a change? Or is it possible to delay one of the subs with only one RackAmp?
I know that it is also possible to drive the 8Ohm Sub in single mode, but with only half of the power.

I appreciate your recommendations.

Kind regards,
David
dk178 is offline  
post #8504 of 8517 Old 04-18-2017, 05:17 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Does anyone know of a Triad dealer in the DC-Baltimore area? Triad seems to have removed the dealer locator from their website.

Thanks in advance.
ZXCVBN is offline  
post #8505 of 8517 Old 04-18-2017, 05:44 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dawn Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 119
If you call Triad and ask for the sales dept. they will give you the names of dealers in your area.

If you have trouble finding a dealer let me know.
Dawn Gordon is offline  
post #8506 of 8517 Old 04-18-2017, 08:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 6,766
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by dk178 View Post
Hello,

my name is David from Germany and I am the owner of 3x IC Bronze/8 (used as LCR), 2x IC Bronze/8 SAT (used as Surrounds, turned towards the backwall to get a more diffuse sound). Everything is installed in my living room (5.2 setup), some years ago. I also have a Triad RackAmp 350 and two Mini Sub Duo (8Ohm). One is installed in the front, the other one is now moved to the back (both in ceilling). I am aware that the response time of both Subs is different. Thus I would like to add another RackAmp 350 and drive only one Subwoofer from each RackAmp. Is it possible?
Do I have to convert the 8Ohm Sub into a 4Ohm Sub? If yes, does Triad offer such a change? Or is it possible to delay one of the subs with only one RackAmp?
I know that it is also possible to drive the 8Ohm Sub in single mode, but with only half of the power.

I appreciate your recommendations.

Kind regards,
David
I don't have experience with that gear but from what you describe, I would say:

Should be possible, assuming you have separate speaker level wiring runs that go all the way back to your amp rack/equipment area. I say this because if you were previously running both subs off of one mono amp, they might not both have an independent run of wire from their location back to your equipment area -- but instead they might be sharing one set of wires, which might complicate things.

____________________

Current theater & gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
nathan_h is online now  
post #8507 of 8517 Old 04-18-2017, 01:36 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
If you call Triad and ask for the sales dept. they will give you the names of dealers in your area.

If you have trouble finding a dealer let me know.
Thank you. I emailed them and haven't heard back. I'll try calling.
ZXCVBN is offline  
post #8508 of 8517 Old Yesterday, 12:57 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
I don't have experience with that gear but from what you describe, I would say:

Should be possible, assuming you have separate speaker level wiring runs that go all the way back to your amp rack/equipment area. I say this because if you were previously running both subs off of one mono amp, they might not both have an independent run of wire from their location back to your equipment area -- but instead they might be sharing one set of wires, which might complicate things.
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have a dedicated rack and all the equipment is placed in the rack. Each speaker and subwoofer has its own set of wires.

I assume you recommend not to change the subwoofer to 4Ohm (if possible) and just run each 8Ohm Sub on a dedicated amp?
dk178 is offline  
post #8509 of 8517 Old Yesterday, 05:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dawn Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Yes, before going the conversion route, I would first try to run each sub on a dedicated amp. See how they sound and go from there.
nathan_h likes this.
Dawn Gordon is offline  
post #8510 of 8517 Old Yesterday, 09:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 6,766
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by dk178 View Post
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have a dedicated rack and all the equipment is placed in the rack. Each speaker and subwoofer has its own set of wires.

I assume you recommend not to change the subwoofer to 4Ohm (if possible) and just run each 8Ohm Sub on a dedicated amp?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
Yes, before going the conversion route, I would first try to run each sub on a dedicated amp. See how they sound and go from there.
@dk178

I'm not an expert, but I would have said 'yes try it'.

But Dawn **is** an expert, and if she says try it, you definitely should.

I can't think of any reason they wouldn't work. My guess would be that ultimate power handling and volume output might not be as high?

I'm used to worrying about running a 4ohm speaker with an amp designed for 8ohms, where the risk is that the amp can't keep up and clips. But you are describing the opposite: the speakers are 8 ohms and the amp is designed to power 4 ohm loads. That seems unlikely to be a problem. You just have more power than you need.

____________________

Current theater & gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
nathan_h is online now  
post #8511 of 8517 Old Yesterday, 11:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dawn Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Regarding the addition of another rack amp.

I wasn't completely sure that this would be beneficial so I contacted Triad on your behalf. Looks like you won't need an extra amp after all, but rather just a few tweaks to your settings. See what Triad said below:

Try changing the Sub Highpass from 20hz to 30hz and leave the Sub HP Slope on 48db. This will increase the max output by 6db to 10db, almost doubling the output. Some people worry they will not play as low but because of natural room gain even with the Sub Highpass at 30hz it will likely have 12db or more boost at 20hz over 40hz.

Always best to err on the side of caution when not 100% positive. :-)

Dawn

Last edited by Dawn Gordon; Yesterday at 11:42 AM.
Dawn Gordon is offline  
post #8512 of 8517 Old Yesterday, 12:47 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 28,389
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3624 Post(s)
Liked: 3471
Dawn - maybe I'm not following but I'm not clear how that solves the OP's problem. He doesn't want the second RackAmp for more output, he wants it to have independent control of delay/phase because one sub is in the front and the other is in the rear.

Quote:
I also have a Triad RackAmp 350 and two Mini Sub Duo (8Ohm). One is installed in the front, the other one is now moved to the back (both in ceilling). I am aware that the response time of both Subs is different. Thus I would like to add another RackAmp 350 and drive only one Subwoofer from each RackAmp. Is it possible?
nathan_h likes this.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #8513 of 8517 Old Yesterday, 04:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 6,766
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Right the OP wants to be able to have separate EQ and delay settings for each sub. Right now they are both run off a single RackAmp so they have the same delay and EQ settings.

Of course, many people would argue that one should EQ both subs the same, with the same mono signal -- but that yes, delay would need to be different for each unless you placed them both at the one set of spots where that wasn't a factor....

____________________

Current theater & gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
nathan_h is online now  
post #8514 of 8517 Old Today, 01:31 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thanks for all your comments.

Quote:
Dawn - maybe I'm not following but I'm not clear how that solves the OP's problem. He doesn't want the second RackAmp for more output, he wants it to have independent control of delay/phase because one sub is in the front and the other is in the rear.
Correct, my intention was the different delay for both subs. Anyhow. I will try both setups now and hear what fits best to my ears.

Quote:
Try changing the Sub Highpass from 20hz to 30hz and leave the Sub HP Slope on 48db. This will increase the max output by 6db to 10db, ...
I fear that I reduce the power of the amplifier in case of running a 8Ohm speaker at a 4Ohm amplifier (instead of a 4 Ohm speaker). But I can use above settings in case the bass is too weak.

Well, in the end I have to test what sounds best. But, I appreciate your comments. This help me to find the best solution.
dk178 is offline  
post #8515 of 8517 Old Today, 06:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dawn Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Thanks BP and sorry guys. I was fixated on output for some reason. Totally forgot about the delay component. In any case, you won't break anything by going with two amps.
Dawn Gordon is offline  
post #8516 of 8517 Old Today, 09:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 6,766
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by dk178 View Post
I fear that I reduce the power of the amplifier in case of running a 8Ohm speaker at a 4Ohm amplifier (instead of a 4 Ohm speaker).
IIRC, just the opposite it the case.

Remember a "4 ohm amp" is really just a MORE powerful amp than one specified to only drive "8 ohm speakers".

And an "8 ohm speaker" is much easier to drive than a "4 ohm speaker".

So you are making it EASIER to go loud:
  • Before, you had one amp driving two speakers (those two speakers together behaved like a single 4 ohm speaker -- hard to drive)
  • After, you have two amps, one for each speaker (and each speaker behaves easier to drive)

____________________

Current theater & gear: "Nathan's Theater in Search of....".
nathan_h is online now  
post #8517 of 8517 Old Today, 10:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 826
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
IIRC, just the opposite it the case.

Remember a "4 ohm amp" is really just a MORE powerful amp than one specified to only drive "8 ohm speakers".

And an "8 ohm speaker" is much easier to drive than a "4 ohm speaker".

So you are making it EASIER to go loud:
  • Before, you had one amp driving two speakers (those two speakers together behaved like a single 4 ohm speaker -- hard to drive)
  • After, you have two amps, one for each speaker (and each speaker behaves easier to drive)
Here is a response I received from Triad a while back about a somewhat similar question:

Quote:
Using the two 8 ohm on one amp or two amps will have very little difference in max output since either way you are getting about 150 watts to each sub. Using two amps will greatly lower the distortion at max output because the amp will only being running at half power leaving 3dB of headroom at the same output levels. Also giving you separate controls over the level and delay can also help the sound quality depending on the system setup and placement.

Doing two 4 ohm subs each with its own amp will give you around 6dB more max output because you are doubling the power to each sub (+3db each).
However since the amplifier is not informed that it is running 2x 8ohm vs 1x 4ohm, it is my understanding that in theory at the same power delivery level having twice as much cone area (at the same sensitivity) will increase the output (by +3db?).

--
Σ Info: Δ 8.5' viewing distance AT screen fabrics comparison
Σ Builds: Δ HT 2.0 renovation with acoustic coffered ceiling (in progress, 5% completed) Δ Variable-aspect screen with motorized masking (on hold, have parts)
jjcook is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
Triad

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off