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post #2521 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post

Paul,

Do you know what kind of acoustic treatments are pictured in that photo above?

They're Tony Grimani's MSR treatments. Here's the complete equipment list, as it stands in Prather's theater. There have been some changes since our CEDIA demo.

3) Triad Platinum LCRs in BaffleWalls
6) Triad Gold Surrounds
12) Triad 12-inch Silver PowerSubs
12) Triad 500-watt Silver DSP amplifiers
3) Parasound JC1 Amplifiers
3) Parasound A21 Amplifiers
MSR Acoustic Treatment
Stewart Director’s Choice 160-inch Wide 2.0 4-Way Masking Projection Screen
Digital Projection TITAN 1080P Dual 3D projector
Crowson Tactile Motion System
Kinetic sound Isolation and Suspended Ceiling System
Denon AVP-A1HDCI Ultra-Reference Preamplifier
Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray Player
DirecTV Receiver
Lumagen Radiance XS Video Processor
Ashly ne24.24M Multi-channel Matrix Audio Processor
Exactpower 10 kVA Powercore Power Conditioner
Crestron AV2 Control System
Crestron TPS-6X Touchpanel
Crestron infiNET Lighting Control
2) Middle Atlantic Racks
3) Middle Atlantic 293 CFM Venting Systems
1) Dedicated 10,000 BTU Portable AC Unit for Equipment Rack Cooling
Fortress Seating

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post #2522 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 09:39 AM
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What's the thought process behind then going vertical compared to spacing them out more? Probably same answer just curious.

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post #2523 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

What's the thought process behind then going vertical compared to spacing them out more? Probably same answer just curious.

The subs were deliberately placed, three each, at the center point of all four walls, equaling twelve subs. Although this placement results in the least amount of bass, it produces the most uniform bass throughout the room, and with twelve subs, there's plenty of headroom. This isn't practical in most rooms, however, for obvious reasons. The bass at our CEDIA demo didn't "hotspot," and it was very close in level in all eleven chairs.

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post #2524 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

What's the thought process behind then going vertical compared to spacing them out more? Probably same answer just curious.

Tony called it "randomizing." Having the drivers at different heights along the centerline of the wall might further smooth room modes. It's a subtlety.

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post #2525 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post

Paul,

Do you know what kind of acoustic treatments are pictured in that photo above?

MSR packages their acoustic treatments by room size and by three or more levels...........

If you look at MSR's website, I believe you can find information on such packages. I did call Triad's main office to learn more about the Cinema Plus program..............scared me off with the price tag.

I've figured it's more cost effective to have plans made by DE and use MSR products for a 450 ft^2 room. Mind you, close to $8,000-$12,000 for just the room treatments!

I might add, the MSR's spring trap is one heck of a bass trap...........very innovative quite frankly........

BTW, this home theater stuff is one heck of an expensive hobby!!!!
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post #2526 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post


I might add, the MSR's spring trap is one heck of a bass trap...........very innovative quite frankly........

Helmholtz might not think it's all that innovative.

We build the spring traps for Tony. They sent me two of them to test the packaging a few years ago, and like an idiot, I sent them back. I have bass traps in my back corners, but these are The Real Dealio.

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post #2527 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 04:28 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance

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post #2528 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post


MSR packages their acoustic treatments by room size and by three or more levels...........

If you look at MSR's website, I believe you can find information on such packages. I did call Triad's main office to learn more about the Cinema Plus program..............scared me off with the price tag.

I've figured it's more cost effective to have plans made by DE and use MSR products for a 450 ft^2 room. Mind you, close to $8,000-$12,000 for just the room treatments!

I might add, the MSR's spring trap is one heck of a bass trap...........very innovative quite frankly........

BTW, this home theater stuff is one heck of an expensive hobby!!!!

What does a so called Cinema Plus package run for a normal size room, say 15x22x8?

Not that I'm buying one anytime soon, but we can always dream.

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post #2529 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

What does a so called Cinema Plus package run for a normal size room, say 15x22x8?

Not that I'm buying one anytime soon, but we can always dream.

Packages are based on room area, not volume.........go to the MSR website and click on pricing....................

If my math calculations are correct ............15' X 22' is 330 ft^2. Look for the 350 package!
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post #2530 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance

Why on earth would you want to bring back my P-Chem memories!!!

You're in the "Dog House" Paul!!!
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post #2531 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

What does a so called Cinema Plus package run for a normal size room, say 15x22x8?

Not that I'm buying one anytime soon, but we can always dream.

Sorry, I mis-read your post!

Paul might have a better grasp..........but, from my recollection a small room (3000 ft^3) was $45,000 ish.......

Included plans, treatments, 3 Gold Monitors, 4 Gold Surrounds and I can't remember the number of subs.......your on your own for other electronics.

The medium package was $90,000 ish.........which is what my room fell under. The package included:

3 Plats, 6 Gold surrounds and once again a certain number of subs, MSR treatments and of course.......the theater plans.

Save me Paul............save me!
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post #2532 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 05:43 PM
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The prices for the systems include all the Triad speakers and sub amps, and a detailed design book that a contractor can work off of (a page is shown below), and the appropriate acoustical treatments, along with plans on where to place them. It's very complete, but it requires a good professional installation company and contractor to get to perfect. This is NOT do-it-yourself. This is as extensive as gutting a kitchen and totally redesigning it as a high-end kitchen; something most of us wouldn't tackle.



The basic system, in addition to the Gold Monitors and Gold Surrounds, includes four InWall Bronze/6 DSP Subs, each with a 300-watt amp.

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post #2533 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

The medium package was $90,000 ish.........which is what my room fell under. The package included:

3 Plats, 6 Gold surrounds and once again a certain number of subs, MSR treatments and of course.......the theater plans.

Save me Paul............save me!

If you were actually drowning...I might.

The middle system contains what you correctly stated, plus eight special, shallow InWall Silver DSP Subs, and eight 500-watt (RMS) sub amplifiers. (The new amps are on the way, and they're 600 watts.)

Detailed, correctly designed systems like this are beyond the scope of most AV dealers, and we offer this as an option to Triad dealers. The systems that have been completed have turned out spectacular, and I haven't heard one peep about how much money it cost.

I will also point out that there are other people in this industry whom I respect greatly who are also very, very good at this, including Dennis Erskine, Keith Yates, Gerry Lemay, and a few others. Erskine has built custom acoustical panels for me, and they're excellent.

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post #2534 of 6513 Old 02-11-2011, 06:01 PM
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http://www.triadspeakers.com/pmi/pdf...handout_v1.pdf

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post #2535 of 6513 Old 02-13-2011, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

This is NOT do-it-yourself. This is as extensive as gutting a kitchen and totally redesigning it as a high-end kitchen; something most of us wouldn't tackle.

Well........

I did destroy and rebuilt my wife's kitchen which helped sell our last home.........my wife has "Hi-end" tastes! Look who she married!

I was also pretty good with erector sets as a child...........that's what "good" German children do!

Give me the plans............I can follow directions!
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Well, you could buy one of these...or four InRoom Platinum DSP Subs.



My God. I just figured that the bike is $675 per pound, and the four Platinum Subs are only $17 per lb. By Grabthar's Hammer...what a savings!

Any questions that I could answer right to get the bike? Not to sound blasphemous, but I think I would rather have the bike than the subs.

Tom
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post #2537 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 06:51 AM
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Any questions that I could answer right to get the bike? Not to sound blasphemous, but I think I would rather have the bike than the subs.

Tom

I actually have two identical Look 585s with Campy Super Record 11-speed. The other one is black, and I named both bikes. The white one is "Blacky" and the black one is "Whitey." I have issues.


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post #2538 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 07:08 AM
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Jeez, I hijacked my own thread...

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post #2539 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 08:05 AM
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I The other one is black, and I named both bikes. The white one is "Blacky" and the black one is "Whitey." I have issues.

You name things as well as our daughter. We bought a three-striped damsel for my daughter.



My wife wanted to name him Adidas, but my daughter named him "Blacky Whitey!"

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post #2540 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 08:08 AM
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My wife wanted to name him Adidas, but my daughter named him "Blacky Whitey!"

CJ

That's a great name!

And, yes, I have also named my car. Are you ready for this??

"Pelli." As in Paul's car Pelli.

Groan.


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post #2541 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 09:17 AM
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And, yes, I have also named my car. Are you ready for this??

"Pelli." As in Paul's car Pelli.

Ba-DUM, dum. He's here all week. Try the veal.
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post #2542 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 11:09 AM
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Ba-DUM, dum. He's here all week. Try the veal.

Hey, what do you want for nothing...your money back??

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post #2543 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 12:29 PM
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Paul, whats the difference between the gold monitor inwalls and the LCR gold inwall speakers ?

Sorry to interrupt btw
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post #2544 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 03:29 PM
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Paul, whats the difference between the gold monitor inwalls and the LCR gold inwall speakers ?
Okay, back on topic.

The InWall Gold/6 LCR and the InWall Gold/6 Monitor are completely different speakers, but they can serve the same purpose; fairly high output audiophile sound for music or movies. The Gold LCR is capable of maybe a dB or two more output, but the Gold Monitor has the edge in accuracy. For $2,150 vs. $3,900, the Gold Monitor is better; something casual listeners may not notice, but you fussy guys will pick up on it immediately. Oy, that Scan-Speak R-29 tweeter! Usable response to 60 kHz, and very flat to 40 kHz.

The Monitor uses three expensive Scan-Speak drivers in a 2-way configuration and a costly crossover. Both speakers are in solid, acoustically-inert enclosures. The Gold LCR uses four very nice proprietary Seas drivers in a 3-way design.

It comes down to application. The Gold LCR, at it's reasonable price, is perfect for rooms up to 4,000 cubic ft., and it'll rock with separates. If you use a receiver, it has to be a substantial one that delivers lots of power into a 4 ohm load.

The Gold Monitor will cover a typical 3,500 cubic ft. room, and it's absolutely stunning on music; especially demanding classical music. Everything just sounds real, and the speakers tend to vanish. Because the Gold Monitor is also a robust design, you can crank movies on it, too. Quite often I use chapter 20 of The Dark Knight, and with two Gold DSP Subs and at about 3-above-reference, they're amazing; relaxed, effortless, dynamic. If music listening is as important as movies and you have the budget, the Gold Monitor is a great choice. If you have to spend $5,250 less on your three fronts and you want 90% the performance on movies and 75% the quality on music, the Gold LCR is your guy. I've compared them side to side in my theater, so I'm making these statements based upon experience.

I hope that helps. Subjective stuff is so...subjective...

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post #2545 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 03:42 PM
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The Gold LCR, at it's reasonable price, is perfect for rooms up to 4,000 cubic ft.,

Paul, How Plats perform in a room size of 4000 cu ft?

Just curios, What is the size of Prather's theater? Thanks
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post #2546 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 03:44 PM
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I have me thinking about those Gold Monitors Paul!

I'm thinking the inwalls (if they are the same as the in room). The Platinum massive physical size is starting to become a challenge for me while planning my new theater. Especially with my plans to use a AT screen.

But honestly.. I don't think I can bring myself to letting these go. I just love my plats too much!!

Quote:
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Okay, back on topic.

The InWall Gold/6 LCR and the InWall Gold/6 Monitor are completely different speakers, but they can serve the same purpose; fairly high output audiophile sound for music or movies. The Gold LCR is capable of maybe a dB or two more output, but the Gold Monitor has the edge in accuracy. For $2,150 vs. $3,900, the Gold Monitor is better; something casual listeners may not notice, but you fussy guys will pick up on it immediately. Oy, that Scan-Speak R-29 tweeter! Usable response to 60 kHz, and very flat to 40 kHz.

The Monitor uses three expensive Scan-Speak drivers in a 2-way configuration and a costly crossover. Both speakers are in solid, acoustically-inert enclosures. The Gold LCR uses four very nice proprietary Seas drivers in a 3-way design.

It comes down to application. The Gold LCR, at it's reasonable price, is perfect for rooms up to 4,000 cubic ft., and it'll rock with separates. If you use a receiver, it has to be a substantial one that delivers lots of power into a 4 ohm load.

The Gold Monitor will cover a typical 3,500 cubic ft. room, and it's absolutely stunning on music; especially demanding classical music. Everything just sounds real, and the speakers tend to vanish. Because the Gold Monitor is also a robust design, you can crank movies on it, too. Quite often I use chapter 20 of The Dark Knight, and with two Gold DSP Subs and at about 3-above-reference, they're amazing; relaxed, effortless, dynamic. If music listening is as important as movies and you have the budget, the Gold Monitor is a great choice. If you have to spend $5,250 less on your three fronts and you want 90% the performance on movies and 75% the quality on music, the Gold LCR is your guy. I've compared them side to side in my theater, so I'm making these statements based upon experience.

I hope that helps. Subjective stuff is so...subjective...

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post #2547 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 03:47 PM
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Paul, How Plats perform in a room size of 4000 cu ft?

Just curios, What is the size of Prather's theater? Thanks
I'm not sure how big Prather's room is, but we played that same system at CEDIA 2009 in a room that was probably 7,000+, and we were crushing people. In a 4,000 cu. ft. room, as long as you have big enough amps, they'll cause physical damage if you wish. I would recommend amps that deliver 300-600 watts per channel into a 4 ohm load. Actually, if you're not sitting at the back of the room, either Gold LCRs or Gold Monitors will do a nice job in a 4,000 cu. ft. room, too. But Platinum LCRs are a whole different experience.

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post #2548 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 04:10 PM
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For my theater (4000 cu ft)

I'm considering

Three inwall gold LCRs
Two inwall gold surrounds
Two Inwall gold SEs for rear channels

Subs: 4 Cinema plus inwall silvers subs
or Two inwall silvers for (L/R bass) and a plat for LFE
or Two Gold subs

Any suggestions? Thanks.
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post #2549 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkopp View Post
For my theater (4000 cu ft)

I'm considering

Three inwall gold LCRs
Two inwall gold surrounds
Two Inwall gold SEs for rear channels

Subs: 4 Cinema plus inwall silvers subs
or Two inwall silvers for (L/R bass) and a plat for LFE
or Two Gold subs

Any suggestions? Thanks.
Wow, I like the way you roll, Sir. Any of those scenarios will work, but I'd only do the four CinemaPlus Silver DSP Subs if you plan on using a fabric wall in the room. Any of those subwoofer options will work, but I'm really blown away with two InRoom Gold DSP Subs in my room that's half that size. You might want to just use two Platinum DSP Subs and run them both LFE.

The front three, two surrounds, and two back speakers are really well-matched. You did good!

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post #2550 of 6513 Old 02-14-2011, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Okay, back on topic.

The InWall Gold/6 LCR and the InWall Gold/6 Monitor are completely different speakers, but they can serve the same purpose; fairly high output audiophile sound for music or movies. The Gold LCR is capable of maybe a dB or two more output, but the Gold Monitor has the edge in accuracy. For $2,150 vs. $3,900, the Gold Monitor is better; something casual listeners may not notice, but you fussy guys will pick up on it immediately. Oy, that Scan-Speak R-29 tweeter! Usable response to 60 kHz, and very flat to 40 kHz.

The Monitor uses three expensive Scan-Speak drivers in a 2-way configuration and a costly crossover. Both speakers are in solid, acoustically-inert enclosures. The Gold LCR uses four very nice proprietary Seas drivers in a 3-way design.

It comes down to application. The Gold LCR, at it's reasonable price, is perfect for rooms up to 4,000 cubic ft., and it'll rock with separates. If you use a receiver, it has to be a substantial one that delivers lots of power into a 4 ohm load.

The Gold Monitor will cover a typical 3,500 cubic ft. room, and it's absolutely stunning on music; especially demanding classical music. Everything just sounds real, and the speakers tend to vanish. Because the Gold Monitor is also a robust design, you can crank movies on it, too. Quite often I use chapter 20 of The Dark Knight, and with two Gold DSP Subs and at about 3-above-reference, they're amazing; relaxed, effortless, dynamic. If music listening is as important as movies and you have the budget, the Gold Monitor is a great choice. If you have to spend $5,250 less on your three fronts and you want 90% the performance on movies and 75% the quality on music, the Gold LCR is your guy. I've compared them side to side in my theater, so I'm making these statements based upon experience.

I hope that helps. Subjective stuff is so...subjective...

Hi Paul, thanks for the detailed explaination. I have bought the LCRs. And being placed behind a screen, some of the benefit of the monitors could be lost anyway.

I also have 4 silver surrounds, a submersive and a JL F113. Should be enough for a small room of only ~1800cu feet. What ya think?
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