The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 243 - AVS Forum
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post #7261 of 9222 Old 05-15-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

I went from Paradigm Sigs .v1 to the SS's, and boy what a treat...
Congrats Brotha - you will love the step up, though you really dropped the coin on those SS8's... jeebus...

I went the cheap route, used SS-M7's mated with my 18" LMS for the Down Low... freakin awesome for 1/2 the price.... Left me some money for BOOZE whilst I sit and enjoy the fruits of my labor......

Yeah, I went for it! I'd had Advents (original "large" advents), bought used in the seventies, and used until a few years ago when I bought a pair of used Paradigms. I saw such a dramatic change and realized much more what was possible. Gave me the oomph to start revamping the system. The confidence told me to go for it. Speakers I'd like to keep much longer than electronics that might change more often. I worked my way up the model line and finally ordered HT2-TLs but changed the order to SS8s after clearing the barrier of their weight (go figure). I plan to keep these gems for a very long time!

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post #7262 of 9222 Old 05-15-2012, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsalk View Post

Chris wanted a pair of SoundScape 8's in pau ferro rosewood. And while you can't see it, he also upgraded the crossover caps to Sonicaps.

Here are some pictures...



And a close-up...



Happy listening Chris!

- Jim

OMG!!!! These are beautiful!!!! I am finding out you are pretty much in my back yard and I never really heard of Salk before.

Actually it looks like I have passed your shop a few times.

I live in Oak Park and my wife works for the assessor's office near you. Do you allow visitors a demo listen?
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post #7263 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raylover79 View Post

Though I haven't seen any of these masterpieces except through photos, the "HT 2-TL in double dye process over fiddleback maple" and "COKE - Kyle's HT2-TL in book-matched burled walnut with some sapwood in the sheets" are my most favorites, in look.


and


out of these 2 photos, which speaker pair has the raal ribbon tweeters? is it the top one (Ht2TL in double dye process over fiddleback maple?)
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post #7264 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 06:37 AM
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^^^

the top one has the raal...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 


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post #7265 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raylover79 View Post

out of these 2 photos, which speaker pair has the rall ribbon tweeters? is it the top one (Ht2TL in double dye process over fiddleback maple?)

LCY Ribbon Tweeter - earlier Salk speakers


Aurum Cantus G2 Ribbon.... Salk HT3's


RAAL 70-10D RAAL Ribbon Tweeter





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post #7266 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

Do you allow visitors a demo listen?

Yes he does; give him a shout (contact him through his website: salksound.com).


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post #7267 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 07:24 AM
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Thank you ccotenj & warpdrv for your detailed reply.
None of the Salk speakers (Song Towers and HT2TLs) that participated in the SE WI Tower speaker GTG had the raal tweeters and the ss10 had a defective mid driver. That was a lot of bad luck in play at the GTG for Salk. Still the Song towers and HT2TLs shined. That's great.
IMHO, It would have been much fairer for all the speakers, if they were listening at little lesser volume at the GTG, as all the speakers were running without subs and all of them, I assume, were meant to be used with a sub.
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post #7268 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

RAAL 70-10D RAAL Ribbon Tweeter




I was curious about those foam pads since they aren't evident from Salk photos. From Madisound's Page (probably from the manufacturer):
Quote:



FOAM DEFLECTOR PADS: Wide angle polar response is of great importance for the natural reproduction, therefore using the larger ribbon drivers bares a problem, since they are showing very intensive beaming of high frequencies, as they are line sources far bigger than the wavelengths of high frequencies in audible range. For model 140-15D, we found the solution for that problem in using the specially shaped foam pads in front of the ribbon. The dispersion pads are working as an acoustic lens, by slowing down the velocity of sound and thus shaping the sound wave front from cylindrical to spherical. The parasitic effect of partial sound absorption is inevitable, but acceptable. The pads are magnetic and they can slide on the front plate. By adjusting the distance between the pads, sliding them toward or apart each other, it is possible to shape the on-axis linearity vs. wide angle vertical polar response. In this way anyone can adjust the high frequency output by his-hers own liking. If the pads are completely removed, 15 kHz on-axis response is increased in level of about 7 dB.

It seems from photos that Jim has opted to remove the pads.

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post #7269 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrisik View Post

I was curious about those foam pads since they aren't evident from Salk photos. From Madisound's Page (probably from the manufacturer):

It seems from photos that Jim has opted to remove the pads.

The tweeter used in Salk speakers is not the 70-10D or 140-15D, it's the OEM-only 70-20XR. It never had the foam pads.
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post #7270 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

The tweeter used in Salk speakers is not the 70-10D or 140-15D, it's the OEM-only 70-20XR. It never had the foam pads.

Aha! Thanks

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post #7271 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raylover79 View Post

Thank you ccotenj & warpdrv for your detailed reply.
None of the Salk speakers (Song Towers and HT2TLs) that participated in the SE WI Tower speaker GTG had the raal tweeters and the ss10 had a defective mid driver. That was a lot of bad luck in play at the GTG for Salk. Still the Song towers and HT2TLs shined. That's great.
IMHO, It would have been much fairer for all the speakers, if they were listening at little lesser volume at the GTG, as all the speakers were running without subs and all of them, I assume, were meant to be used with a sub.

The midrange in the SoundScape 10 was found to be in perfect working order. The issue was TJHUB's left monoblock amplifier, which was found to have a bad transistor. Due to this the amp was clipping during dynamic passages and transients, which was noticeable in other speakers as well, just not nearly as much as with the SoundScapes. After all, the SoundScapes did have the most resolving midrange of the bunch.

The reason we didn't cross to subwoofers is because each speaker had a different impedance and sensitivity, so for some speakers the subs would have been running hot (such as the lower sensitivity SoundScapes), and with others the speakers would have completely overpowered the subwoofers (such as the ultra sensitive Seaton's and JTR's). In fact, after the official listening sessions we tried to listen to the JTR's with the subwoofers using Terry's preamps, but the JTR speakers were so much more sensitive than the subwoofers that the subwoofers were 12dB quieter, thus making them useless.

I hope that clears up some confusion.


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post #7272 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrisik View Post

I was curious about those foam pads since they aren't evident from Salk photos. From

It seems from photos that Jim has opted to remove the pads.

The pads are used to attenuate the tweeter if necessary. For example, I believe Dennis Murphy has the RAAL's in his Philharmonic line of speakers running a couple dB's hot if you opt to use no pads. One pad on the bottom will attenuate to a flat anechoic response, and two pads (one on top and one on bottom, like in the picture) will attenuate so the RAAL is a dB or two rolled off. You can use the pads to adjust the tweeter's response for you room, which comes in handy.

Jim Salk asked Dennis to design the crossover so the RAAL is always "flat" or "neutral" for the SongTower's and Veracity speakers. For the SoundScape towers (8, 10 and 12) Jim built in an attenuation switch on the back of the speaker rather than using the pads. If you use the pads you cannot put grills on your speakers, so that may be another reason Jim opted to install a switch instead. The switch essentially alters the tweeter response similar to how the pads do.


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post #7273 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

The pads are used to attenuate the tweeter if necessary. For example, I believe Dennis Murphy has the RAAL's in his Philharmonic line of speakers running a couple dB's hot if you opt to use no pads. One pad on the bottom will attenuate to a flat anechoic response, and two pads (one on top and one on bottom, like in the picture) will attenuate so the RAAL is a dB or two rolled off. You can use the pads to adjust the tweeter's response for you room, which comes in handy.

Jim Salk asked Dennis to design the crossover so the RAAL is always "flat" or "neutral" for the SongTower's and Veracity speakers. For the SoundScape towers (8, 10 and 12) Jim built in an attenuation switch on the back of the speaker rather than using the pads. If you use the pads you cannot put grills on your speakers, so that may be another reason Jim opted to install a switch instead. The switch essentially alters the tweeter response similar to how the pads do.

Interesting. I didn't realize the SS8s had the tweeter attenuation switch. Better solution aesthetically as well.

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post #7274 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrisik View Post

Interesting. I didn't realize the SS8s had the tweeter attenuation switch. Better solution aesthetically as well.

Now you've got me re-thinking that one over...I can't recall if I saw the adjustment switch on the SS8's now. Jim should be able to answer that one, though. Either way, all of the Salk's are designed with "flat" measuring high frequency response on axis anechoicly, so no pads are necessary.

SS8 on-axis:


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post #7275 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 11:33 AM
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I don't think the SS8's had that switch added to the design...

Flat is great and all, but doesn't tell the listener what the actual drivers sound like IMO...

You can build 2 good flat measuring speakers with different drivers, parts and crossovers - run them side by side and they can sound different. So don't just go by measurements...


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post #7276 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

I don't think the SS8's had that switch added to the design...

Flat is great and all, but doesn't tell the listener what the actual drivers sound like IMO...

You can build 2 good flat measuring speakers with different drivers, parts and crossovers - run them side by side and they can sound different. So don't just go by measurements...

You're right, but measurements are a valuable resource for weeding out the lousy designs.


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post #7277 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

The midrange in the SoundScape 10 was found to be in perfect working order. The issue was TJHUB's left monoblock amplifier, which was found to have a bad transistor. Due to this the amp was clipping during dynamic passages and transients, which was noticeable in other speakers as well, just not nearly as much as with the SoundScapes. After all, the SoundScapes did have the most resolving midrange of the bunch.

The reason we didn't cross to subwoofers is because each speaker had a different impedance and sensitivity, so for some speakers the subs would have been running hot (such as the lower sensitivity SoundScapes), and with others the speakers would have completely overpowered the subwoofers (such as the ultra sensitive Seaton's and JTR's). In fact, after the official listening sessions we tried to listen to the JTR's with the subwoofers using Terry's preamps, but the JTR speakers were so much more sensitive than the subwoofers that the subwoofers were 12dB quieter, thus making them useless.

I hope that clears up some confusion.

Hi Nuance, So far I have only read upto 1150 posts in SE WI Tower speaker GTG thread, so I did not know that the problem was with the monoblock amp. Thanks for the clarification and the informations. Your wife's review on that thread was great.
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post #7278 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

The pads are used to attenuate the tweeter if necessary. For example, I believe Dennis Murphy has the RAAL's in his Philharmonic line of speakers running a couple dB's hot if you opt to use no pads. One pad on the bottom will attenuate to a flat anechoic response, and two pads (one on top and one on bottom, like in the picture) will attenuate so the RAAL is a dB or two rolled off. You can use the pads to adjust the tweeter's response for you room, which comes in handy.

Jim Salk asked Dennis to design the crossover so the RAAL is always "flat" or "neutral" for the SongTower's and Veracity speakers. For the SoundScape towers (8, 10 and 12) Jim built in an attenuation switch on the back of the speaker rather than using the pads. If you use the pads you cannot put grills on your speakers, so that may be another reason Jim opted to install a switch instead. The switch essentially alters the tweeter response similar to how the pads do.

Close--but not quite. The OEM RAAL tweeter doesn't have pads as part of the design. It measures essentially flat without pads. So Jim didn't have to ask me to voice the OEM flat without pads. I'm not sure what design feature accounts for this, but the RAAL 10 that I use has a sharply rising response without components or the pads. (See attached plots of the OEM and 10 running free.) It's easy to flatten it out with a minimum of crossover parts, and the pads attenuate the response more. But the real purpose of the pads is to improve vertical dispersion. They essentially shorten the ribbon without reducing its power handling, and shorter means better vertical dispersion. The shape of the pads also improves vertical dispersion. But they also attenuate the on-axis response. So you end up with a mixture of improved vertical dispersion and less prominent highs on axis. Frankly, the difference is subtle, and my designs generally measure the best with one pad in place on top.
LL
LL
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post #7279 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool - thanks, Dennis.


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post #7280 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 01:29 PM
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Just to clarify things, there is no tweeter padding switch in the SS8's. It would be possible, but it is more complicated on the SS10's and 12's where there is a simple resistor change to accommodate that feature. With the SS8's, it would require both a resistor and cap change and finding a switch with enough contacts is probably not realistic (even finding one for the other SoundScape models was a challenge).

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post #7281 of 9222 Old 05-16-2012, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsalk View Post

Just to clarify things, there is no tweeter padding switch in the SS8's. It would be possible, but it is more complicated on the SS10's and 12's where there is a simple resistor change to accommodate that feature. With the SS8's, it would require both a resistor and cap change and finding a switch with enough contacts is probably not realistic (even finding one for the other SoundScape models was a chalenge).

- Jim

And just to clarify on my end Jim... I've hadn't thought about a switch prior to today and won't ask you for one!

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post #7282 of 9222 Old 05-17-2012, 11:45 AM
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Does anyone have any images of the standard Mahogany veneers? I've looked through the audiocircle forum and can only find the crotch type. I'm having difficulty deciding what veneer to go with... Thanks in advance, Will
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post #7283 of 9222 Old 05-17-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by guillermorb73 View Post

Does anyone have any images of the standard Mahogany veneers? I've looked through the audiocircle forum and can only find the crotch type. I'm having difficulty deciding what veneer to go with... Thanks in advance, Will

Here's an HT1 with mahogany (different finish on baffle):
http://www.salksound.com/home_htm_files/1159.jpg

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post #7284 of 9222 Old 05-17-2012, 12:18 PM
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It seems like every pair of straight mahogany speakers we have ever done has been dyed one color or another. But here is a close-up picture of a pair of SongTowers with only the cabinet edges dyed. The centers of each panel are natural mahogany.





I hope this helps.

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post #7285 of 9222 Old 05-17-2012, 02:59 PM
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Wow, if that is the natural color of straight mahogany, I'm surprised so many want it dyed. It looks like you could swim in it!

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post #7286 of 9222 Old 05-18-2012, 06:59 AM
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Jim, pstrisik, thanks! It does help. The veneer choices are fantastic. It's hard to select just one, I'm narrowing down the choices. Is there much of a cost differential between standard and swirl mahogony? Will
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post #7287 of 9222 Old 05-18-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guillermorb73 View Post

Jim, pstrisik, thanks! It does help. The veneer choices are fantastic. It's hard to select just one, I'm narrowing down the choices. Is there much of a cost differential between standard and swirl mahogony? Will

This is very hard to determine until you pick out an actual batch of veneer. Veneer prices vary quite widely depending on the grain, figuring, sheet size, etc.

If you find a nice batch you like, let me know and I can figure that out. If you need help finding a batch, we can help with that too.

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post #7288 of 9222 Old 05-18-2012, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrisik View Post

Wow, if that is the natural color of straight mahogany, I'm surprised so many want it dyed. It looks like you could swim in it!

For me, that color looks exceptionally dated. I like the figuring and pattern of it, but I completely understand why people would want it dyed.

To each their own I suppose

Cheers,
Chad
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post #7289 of 9222 Old 05-21-2012, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

For me, that color looks exceptionally dated. I like the figuring and pattern of it, but I completely understand why people would want it dyed.

To each their own I suppose

Cheers,
Chad

I'd have to agree sir. Although, it is pretty sweet in its own right.


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post #7290 of 9222 Old 05-21-2012, 06:33 AM
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Speakers will ship today. Come to me!
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