The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 309 - AVS Forum
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post #9241 of 9254 Old 09-25-2014, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
I was reading about the RAAL tweeters and it shows a they distort when pushed over 90-95db? Anyone experience this while watching a movie? Do you watch movies at reference level? My theater is large 24 feet deep, I would rather turn the volume up a bit higher rather than a bit lower. I agree for music the RAAL is the champion but im not 100% sold when it comes to Home Theater. I am sure the dialogue is fantastic but what about explosions, gun shots, the fast jumps from quiet to loud during a horror movie etc. I just watched Olympus has fallen which has quite a few explosions, especially when the obelisk comes crashing down. Talk about some serious LFE, my subs were doing some major excursion and when turned up loud and my speakers sounded like they bottomed out. Since I have waveguides with CD they will just play obscenely loud, will a RAAL keep out or distort?

Interesting. I'm pretty sure at one point or another when I had my HT2-TLs I pushed them beyond 90-95db and never noticed distortion. Do you have a link?
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post #9242 of 9254 Old 09-25-2014, 05:38 PM
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I would hate to hide the speakers behind my AT screen since the finish is beautiful. I wonder if I can purchase them un-finished.... For 2 channel they certainly are at the top of my list and those will be out in the open for everyone to enjoy the eye candy. I visited RAAL website and was reading about the different drivers they build. I also sent an email to learn more, that is when they mentioned the distortion over 90-95db. I sure wish SALK would chime in as im very curious if this is true or not. I hope my FLAC music does not sound like crap if I purchase these for 2 channel. Im sure they are revealing but the source was done in a studio with loseless audio. Whey would they mix it to sound like crap. That may be the fault of the speaker itself. I have played tracks on B&W800D, Wilson Audio, Paradigm, Krell Modulari, Klipsch, Monitor Audio, Linn, Golden Ear Triton One and a few other hi-end high prices speakers and they never sounded like crap. Not sure why the Soundscapes would sound terrible but if the music source did then I would skip those speakers and find something else. Most the speakers I auditioned were price $10k - $160K But I am not spending that much on speaker when I know I can purchase a speaker for less that will sound as good or close.

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post #9243 of 9254 Old 09-25-2014, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
I visited RAAL website and was reading about the different drivers they build. I also sent an email to learn more, that is when they mentioned the distortion over 90-95db.
Keep in mind that they're talking about harmonic distortion. That's something that is usually masked by natural harmonics in music - especially the 2nd and 3rd order distortion produced by ribbons.

Quote:
I hope my FLAC music does not sound like crap if I purchase these for 2 channel. Im sure they are revealing but the source was done in a studio with loseless audio. Whey would they mix it to sound like crap. That may be the fault of the speaker itself. I have played tracks on B&W800D, Wilson Audio, Paradigm, Krell Modulari, Klipsch, Monitor Audio, Linn, Golden Ear Triton One and a few other hi-end high prices speakers and they never sounded like crap.
Some of those speakers you named do sound like crap, though, on both good and bad source material. But each person has a different perspective on what sounds bad.

The biggest issue is that truly good speakers are very revealing of source dynamic compression. Worse speakers can be more forgiving by over-emphasizing bass frequencies and notching down midrange energy.
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post #9244 of 9254 Old 09-25-2014, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
I was reading about the RAAL tweeters and it shows a they distort when pushed over 90-95db? Anyone experience this while watching a movie? Do you watch movies at reference level? My theater is large 24 feet deep, I would rather turn the volume up a bit higher rather than a bit lower. I agree for music the RAAL is the champion but im not 100% sold when it comes to Home Theater. I am sure the dialogue is fantastic but what about explosions, gun shots, the fast jumps from quiet to loud during a horror movie etc. I just watched Olympus has fallen which has quite a few explosions, especially when the obelisk comes crashing down. Talk about some serious LFE, my subs were doing some major excursion and when turned up loud and my speakers sounded like they bottomed out. Since I have waveguides with CD they will just play obscenely loud, will a RAAL keep out or distort?
Could you please give us a link to the article or post you're referring to? Was the conclusion based on measurements? I've done large signal harmonic distortion tests on the RAALs, and I didn't notice any increase in distortion. I would also like to see how the RAAL in question was crossed--at what frequency and with what slope.
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post #9245 of 9254 Old 09-25-2014, 09:08 PM
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It was about low harmonic distortion. Is that a concern or not really? Im not sure what that means to my ears but I know distortion is a bad thing. I cant find the link but ill keep searching.

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post #9246 of 9254 Old 09-26-2014, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
It was about low harmonic distortion. Is that a concern or not really? Im not sure what that means to my ears but I know distortion is a bad thing. I cant find the link but ill keep searching.
rlhaudio -

I see Dennis replied here, but you may want to post in the Salk circle at audiocircle http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=82.0
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post #9247 of 9254 Old 09-26-2014, 04:07 PM
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As mentioned I've owed the Klipsch Palladiums (recently and other Klipsch in the past). Also had the Golden Ear Triton 2's for a while.

The Soundscape 8 is a better speaker across the board, accuracy, detail etc. The others are good, the SS8 is better.

I listen loud, lots of Blu Ray concerts in particular. 90db's is common for me. No distortion. Thought I might have heard some early on after getting them at insane levels on a digitally remastered Megadeth recording. (sometimes you gotta cut loose)

But if you want to listen constantly at insane levels and not blow anything up - I'd go klipsch. Not as accurate, a bit brighter (palladiums) but quite good and crazy dynamic.

If you want a tremendous all around speaker go SS8's.

But, in reading through your posts, I honestly worry you would always question your decision... sounds like you are talking yourself out of the SS8's.

Other option - they hold value incredibly well, head on over to Audiocircle and look for some used ones. As far as Salk responding to this thread, he is pretty responsive via e-mail. Try that.
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post #9248 of 9254 Old 09-27-2014, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
I would hate to hide the speakers behind my AT screen since the finish is beautiful. I wonder if I can purchase them unfinished....
That is certainly doable. We are a custom builder, so we work with clients to build the speakers they desire. If unfinished is what you want, that is what you get.

Quote:
For 2 channel they certainly are at the top of my list and those will be out in the open for everyone to enjoy the eye candy. I visited RAAL website and was reading about the different drivers they build. I also sent an email to learn more, that is when they mentioned the distortion over 90-95db. I sure wish SALK would chime in as im very curious if this is true or not.
All speaker drivers exhibit higher distortion levels as the output increases. This can be due to a number of factors such as increased levels of heat in the voice coil. We have not found this to be an issue with RAAL tweeters. To the contrary, users often report that the RAAL behaves just fine at elevated levels. In fact, whereas many dome tweeters can get bright and edgy at higher output levels, the RAAL behaves very well in similar situations. That is due, in part, because the RAAL plays up to 65 kHz, so anything in the audible range is a piece of cake. Some domes can struggle to cleanly reproduce frequencies at the upper limits of human hearing when driven to higher SPL levels. Not so with the RAAL. At least that's been my experience. (If this were not the case, we certainly wouldn't use them.)

Quote:
I hope my FLAC music does not sound like crap if I purchase these for 2 channel. Im sure they are revealing but the source was done in a studio with loseless audio. Whey would they mix it to sound like crap. That may be the fault of the speaker itself. I have played tracks on B&W800D, Wilson Audio, Paradigm, Krell Modulari, Klipsch, Monitor Audio, Linn, Golden Ear Triton One and a few other hi-end high prices speakers and they never sounded like crap. Not sure why the Soundscapes would sound terrible but if the music source did then I would skip those speakers and find something else. Most the speakers I auditioned were price $10k - $160K But I am not spending that much on speaker when I know I can purchase a speaker for less that will sound as good or close.
This is a complicated issue and would require a longer response to fully explain. But here's the short version...

The SoundScape 8's were designed to be extremely accurate, detailed and transparent. They do not mask poorly recorded or mastered recordings. But on well-recorded and mastered recordings, they will provide a level of detail that you will not hear with a speaker that masks issues in a poor recording. Great recordings sound glorious. Poor recordings sound, well, poor.

There are many reasons some music is poorly recorded or mastered. In the mid-80's, for example, digital audio was new and it took a while for engineers to figure out how to work with it. Some of these early recordings had too much emphasis and sound overly bright on a very accurate speaker. Other recordings were mastered to sound good in automobiles, boomboxes and other low-fi consumer systems. Highs are sometimes accentuated and there is often a hump placed in the mid-bass response designed to increase the perceived level of bass with these types of playback systems. (Small Yamaha NS-10 monitors, not known for accuracy, are still widely used to mix and monitor music so that engineers can tailor the sound for lesser systems.)

These issues are becoming less prevalent as time goes on. Recordings in general are becoming better and better. But is is true, with respect to music that is poorly recorded or poorly mastered (on purpose or by accident), a highly accurate speaker like the SS8 will not mask the flaws the way some lesser speakers will. The flip side is that these lesser speakers will never be able to provide the "magic" sound quality contained a great recording like the SS8's do. That is the trade-off.

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post #9249 of 9254 Old 09-27-2014, 08:46 AM
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Rob wanted a very special pair of Veracity ST's. He loved the look of bubinga, but wanted it in a deeper and richer tone. We we added a bit of rose/red dye to the final topcoat.

Here are the results...



And a close-up...



Happy listening Rob!

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post #9250 of 9254 Old 09-27-2014, 09:03 AM
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Shawn wanted a pair of our brand new Extocia 3 speakers and sent some photos of his eclectic decor (my words, not his). He was looking for something quite unusual that would blend well with his furnishings. He asked if I had ever worked with "sunken" woods. I had not. He came across a batch of veneer with the following description:

"Sinker" Cypress. Also known as Sunken Cypress, Deadhead Cypress, Recovered or Reclaimed Cypress. Laying 60-150 years on a river bottom adds a beautiful greyish band of color and patina to these slow growth virgin Cypress logs. Both the attractive "aged" look and the ecological benefits of reclaiming "lost" timber has added up to growing demand for this American treasure.

It looked like a perfect fit for him, so we went for it. Here are the results...



And a close-up...



I should note that this is the first pair of production pair of these speakers to come out of the shop. Shawn is getting his before I will get mine (although we will finish them very soon).

Happy listening Shawn!

- Jim

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post #9251 of 9254 Old 09-27-2014, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jsalk View Post
Rob wanted a very special pair of Veracity ST's. He loved the look of bubinga, but wanted it in a deeper and richer tone. We we added a bit of rose/red dye to the final topcoat.

Here are the results...



And a close-up...



Happy listening Rob!

- Jim

Amazing. I can't stop looking at them. They will be at my doorstep Tuesday! Luck me and grateful for Jim!
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post #9252 of 9254 Old 09-28-2014, 04:45 PM
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Thanks for those answers Jim-Salk. I'll have to free up some time for a personal audition. Your finish alone is amazing, im sure your speakers will sound just as good in person.

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post #9253 of 9254 Old 09-28-2014, 05:58 PM
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Congrats Rob - amazing looking speakers. I'll have to save a picture of those to reference when I order my next pair. Gorgeous!


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post #9254 of 9254 Old Today, 11:47 AM
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Every once in a while, a customer orders something we have always wanted to do, but never had a chance. Riva wanted a pair of Veracity ST's in midnight blue. We could have used an automotive finish, but I suggested we do a pair in quilted maple and use our double-dye process to obtain a nice midnight blue finish. It was great fun!

Here are some pics...



And a close-up...



This is one pair of speakers I would really like to keep. But they are headed to Indonesia. So I'll just have to build another pair for myself.

Happy listening Riva!

- Jim

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