The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 9259 Old 05-28-2008, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

Question for HT1 owners out there. I'm debating buying The HT1, center and surrounds but I'm concerned about the low sensitivity of these speakers. I'm currently running Klipsch References with an Emotiva IPS amp rated @140/channel all channels driven. What are you HT1 owners driving your speakers with?

Hi the 85 dB rating for the HT1 really can't be compared with a lot of sensitivity ratings for other speakers, particulary popular ones. They are generally inflated, keying off of the response at a particular frequency (like 1 khz), where most speakers have a woofer hump of some kind. 140 honest watts is plenty.
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post #902 of 9259 Old 05-28-2008, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UT-Driven View Post

My wait has almost come to an end. My Song series speakers are supposed to go to finishing this week. Needless to say, I am very excited!

As a reminder from earlier in the thread, I am getting crotch mahogany SongTowers, SongCenter and SoungSurround IIs. I asked for a finish similar to these:




Doug

That finish is amazing, Doug! I am excited for you!


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post #903 of 9259 Old 05-28-2008, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

Hi the 85 dB rating for the HT1 really can't be compared with a lot of sensitivity ratings for other speakers, particulary popular ones. they are generally inflated, keying off of the response at a particular frequency (like 1 khz), where most speakers have a woofer hump of some kind. 140 honest watts is plenty.

Ok, Thanks Dennis.
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post #904 of 9259 Old 05-28-2008, 04:02 PM
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Do you utilize a center speaker and a sub with the HT3's and the ST's?

Is the HT3 active crossover option worth the additional cost over the passive crossover?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randybes View Post

Well, the HT3's go lower. The midrange is similiar but detail probably goes to the HT3. I think the sounstage is a tad better on the ST but it is close. I know the tweeter on the HT3 is sweet but I am 61 so my ears don't hear into the extreme treble anymore. I have both the active and passive (external) crossover HT3. With DEQX, I think the soundstage advantage goes back to the HT3. I have ATI amp for the active crossover HT3 and I went from the ATI to the NHT's digital amps. I didn't do a comparo on that but the NHT does not put out as much power as the ATI, but it is plenty sufficient for my needs. I have now a Yamaha RXV11 but had a Lexicon MC 12. Both the HT3 and the ST have what I would call a Salk house sound in that they are balanced and the word I use is clear when describing what you hear from recordings.


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post #905 of 9259 Old 05-29-2008, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post

Do you utilize a center speaker and a sub with the HT3's and the ST's?

Is the HT3 active crossover option worth the additional cost over the passive crossover?

Yes on the HT3 no on the ST's I have an HT1 for a center speaker. Is the active crossover worth it? Well, it depends on how you use it. I would not advise it for a home theater set-up because it adds too much latency to the mains and most av processors can't compensate for it with the difference that it makes in the distances that have to be entered for same time arrival. That is why I had Jim build external passive crossovers later. On the other hand, for stereo listening in a bad room, the fact that the bass can be tailored to the room using the DEQX is invaluable. Choose your poison.

Oh yes, on the subs, right now I use two JL 113 subs in a stereo left right configuration. They are crossed over at 40Hz for the mains.
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post #906 of 9259 Old 05-29-2008, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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That is one serious system you have there, Randybes. I hope to one day own something of that caliber.


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post #907 of 9259 Old 05-30-2008, 10:02 PM
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Thanks. I am seriously considering Salk speakers so your feedback is very helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randybes View Post

Yes on the HT3 no on the ST's I have an HT1 for a center speaker. Is the active crossover worth it? Well, it depends on how you use it. I would not advise it for a home theater set-up because it adds too much latency to the mains and most av processors can't compensate for it with the difference that it makes in the distances that have to be entered for same time arrival. That is why I had Jim build external passive crossovers later. On the other hand, for stereo listening in a bad room, the fact that the bass can be tailored to the room using the DEQX is invaluable. Choose your poison.

Oh yes, on the subs, right now I use two JL 113 subs in a stereo left right configuration. They are crossed over at 40Hz for the mains.


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post #908 of 9259 Old 05-31-2008, 07:51 PM
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I was able to listen to the SongTowers today. Below are my impressions. First, I'd like to thank Randybes for allowing me to listen to his system.

My first impression is that the speakers are very clear and create a great image. While I hate to say it, it was almost distracting at first. The dialog was just so clear.

I think speakers sounded very neutral. Definitely not warm and I wouldn't call them bright. They are very detailed.

Most of my demo music was Tool (10,000 days, then Lateralus). Maynard (the singer) sounded like he was in the room. The little 5" mid/woofers had a surprising amount of bass. It was pretty impressive. I was also impressed with the tweeters. I don't know why, but I wasn't expecting the level of clarity and detail they had. I'm so used to reading marketing material from other companies that I was starting to believe that you needed a pure beryllium dome in order to get clear treble.

I did play some other music, still clear & detailed.

In their price range, they're probably the best speakers in terms of detail, clarity and neutrality.

I'm not yet sure if these are the best speakers for rock & metal. I am used to listening to Paradigm speakers (I have a pair of 6 year old paradigm's). They are a bit more laid back so that's what I'm used to hearing, but not nearly as detailed.

In the end, I will have to do "another round" of listening at the dealers around here. I have a new benchmark in terms of detail.
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post #909 of 9259 Old 05-31-2008, 08:36 PM
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Mr. Superstar I have an HT3 and HT1 surrounds, also thought before buying they might not be good for rock and metal, but listen to led zepplin albumns II and IV, amazing clarity, you will hear sounds you never heard before, especially using a direct stereo mode, which I do using the Integra DTC 9.8.
As others have said, they make good recordings sound better and exposure poor material, you would not be disappointed. T
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post #910 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Q View Post

Mr. Superstar I have an HT3 and HT1 surrounds, also thought before buying they might not be good for rock and metal, but listen to led zepplin albumns II and IV, amazing clarity, you will hear sounds you never heard before, especially using a direct stereo mode, which I do using the Integra DTC 9.8.
As others have said, they make good recordings sound better and exposure poor material, you would not be disappointed. T

Tom, do you live the Detroit area?
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post #911 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Q View Post

Mr. Superstar I have an HT3 and HT1 surrounds, also thought before buying they might not be good for rock and metal, but listen to led zepplin albumns II and IV, amazing clarity, you will hear sounds you never heard before, especially using a direct stereo mode, which I do using the Integra DTC 9.8.
As others have said, they make good recordings sound better and exposure poor material, you would not be disappointed. T

Tom, you should try using PLIIx on your 9.8 when listening to regular (not surround or high rez) cds. it is amazing what happens. it is almost like the cd was recorded in surround. i am listening to old cds now and am very impressed with the integra and the salks. i have been afraid for months that these redbook cds simply wouldn't be worth listening to because of the quality (or lack thereof) of the original recording.
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post #912 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 07:03 AM
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Has anyone heard from Jim ? I am ANXIOUSLY awaiting word about my ST's
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post #913 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan1 View Post

Has anyone heard from Jim ? I am ANXIOUSLY awaiting word about my ST's

Just heard from Jim this morning. (And it's Sunday!). The SongCenter I ordered 10 weeks ago is about finished and will be shipped soon. I've been really enjoying my STs for almost 2 months now. Believe me, it will be worth the wait.
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post #914 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 10:00 AM
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Ditto on starting with a good recording. Your ears will probably suffer like mine on bad recordings. You want to throw those bad cd's out the window.

I like the crispness & clarity of a classical & jazz cd (good recording) on the ST. Diana Krall sounds great.

Another ditto on Jim's speakers being worth the wait. (Of course it's easy for the people not having to wait to say that.)
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post #915 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 10:18 AM
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I just heard from Jim this morning too. He must have gone through e-mails when he woke up. I added a HTC (center channel) to my HT3 order. And having heard the HT3's I know that they are worth the wait, as are the SongTowers (heard them too), and I can only assume that anything Jim makes would be worth the wait. You guys have to understand that he is insanely busy these days. Since the release of the SongTower his orders have increased dramatically, mainly because they are an incredible speaker for an affordable price. They easily stand up to $3000 speakers and in most cases they still sound better. I think that it is safe to say that Jim doesn't have a very high profit margin on the ST's. You are getting top quality parts and craftsmanship at a literally rock bottom price. I am not sure if you guys know this but Jim works 12-14 hour days M-F and I get the impression it is the same for Saturdays. If he even answers e-mails on Sunday, he is working then too. So BE PATIENT, and rest assured that you are getting one of the best deals in audio today.

Cheers,
-Funk

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post #916 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 11:12 AM
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[I am not sure if you guys know this but Jim works 12-14 hour days M-F and I get the impression it is the same for Saturdays. If he even answers e-mails on Sunday, he is working then too.]

Right--I sure wish I had $100k lying around that I could throw Jim's way for capital equipment. It would probably be the best investment I ever made. But I'm paying for this house in Bethesda..........
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post #917 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 12:36 PM
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Quote:


Since the release of the SongTower his orders have increased dramatically, mainly because they are an incredible speaker for an affordable price. They easily stand up to $3000 speakers and in most cases they still sound better. I think that it is safe to say that Jim doesn't have a very high profit margin on the ST's. You are getting top quality parts and craftsmanship at a literally rock bottom price. I am not sure if you guys know this but Jim works 12-14 hour days M-F and I get the impression it is the same for Saturdays. If he even answers e-mails on Sunday, he is working then too. So BE PATIENT, and rest assured that you are getting one of the best deals in audio today.

I own the Salk HTS, Onix Rocket 450s, Emotiva ERM-1 and I did my comparisons recently in my HT room but I havent posted any results because I have been on a busines trip and on vacation (Vegas!!) over the past week. Im kind of in a daze and I just dont have the time to get the details posted

I will only say that the Salks are a great speaker but they dont beat the Rockets or the ERM-1s (they really dont lose either). I like them all actually and for my HT room the ERM-1s are the winners. I tried to find huge differences or something I didnt like about them and I couldnt but the same can be said about the ERM-1s which are actually 1/3 the cost so with that in mind the ERMs are staying in the HT Room and I need to find a home for the Salks in another room or ship them back.

Just wanted to post that even though the Salks can stand up to $3000 speakers, I would say so can the Rockets from AV123.

In the end its great to have these online choices!!!

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post #918 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Superstar View Post

I was able to listen to the SongTowers today. Below are my impressions. First, I'd like to thank Randybes for allowing me to listen to his system.

My first impression is that the speakers are very clear and create a great image. While I hate to say it, it was almost distracting at first. The dialog was just so clear.

I think speakers sounded very neutral. Definitely not warm and I wouldn't call them bright. They are very detailed.

Most of my demo music was Tool (10,000 days, then Lateralus). Maynard (the singer) sounded like he was in the room. The little 5" mid/woofers had a surprising amount of bass. It was pretty impressive. I was also impressed with the tweeters. I don't know why, but I wasn't expecting the level of clarity and detail they had. I'm so used to reading marketing material from other companies that I was starting to believe that you needed a pure beryllium dome in order to get clear treble.

I did play some other music, still clear & detailed.

In their price range, they're probably the best speakers in terms of detail, clarity and neutrality.

I'm not yet sure if these are the best speakers for rock & metal. I am used to listening to Paradigm speakers (I have a pair of 6 year old paradigm's). They are a bit more laid back so that's what I'm used to hearing, but not nearly as detailed.

In the end, I will have to do "another round" of listening at the dealers around here. I have a new benchmark in terms of detail.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Mr_Superstar, I listen to a good deal of rock and metal, and the ST's handle it with ease. Although, they will reveal the flaws in a recording very quickly. Any 80's and early 90's recorded rock and metal sounds pretty bright and lacking in the bass department. It's nothing a subwoofer and Audyssey can't fix, though. The Song Tower's are very true to the source, which is good IMO. Well recorded material sounds phenomenal!

In the end you have to go with what you like, so I wish you the best on your hunt. Enjoy!


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post #919 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan1 View Post

Has anyone heard from Jim ? I am ANXIOUSLY awaiting word about my ST's

E-mail or call him. He's a prompt responder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post


Just wanted to post that even though the Salks can stand up to $3000 speakers, I would say so can the Rockets from AV123.

I've never heard the HTS series, but to be fair, Funk was talking about the Song Tower's, which are a totally different speaker. The Song Tower's bested my Rocket 850 Sig's for what it's worth. Different strokes for different folks.


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post #920 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 01:40 PM
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I've never heard the HTS series, but to be fair, Funk was talking about the Song Tower's, which are a totally different speaker.

True but from my reading I thought they are designed from the Song series. The HTS are custom built Home Theater speakers that have custom crossover setups.

When a pair of HTS are $1K, they are going to be in the Song tower performance range. They are twice as much as the Rockets and 3 times as much as the Emotiva products. They built very well and look great (if people like gloss black) but performance wise I couldnt get the extra $$$ feeling out of them, that doesnt mean they are not great speakers just means the Rockets and the Emotiva products perform very well too.

Besides that there has been many, many posts saying "They easily stand up to $3000 speakers and in most cases they still sound better....." People have been posting that about other speakers like the AV123 products too.

I was just trying to give a full perspective from someone that spent the money to audition 4 or 5 brands in house.

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post #921 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 02:41 PM
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No rocket I ever had could stand up to Salk speakers so maybe it is your system synergy that brings you to that decision. The Rockets are good speakers so don;t get me wrong, but the Salks just smacked them down in my 2 systems. That's why I don't own Rockets any longer. Both have great customer support as well. And you actually wait less time from Jim than AV123 to get speakers.
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post #922 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

When a pair of HTS are $1K, they are going to be in the Song tower performance range.

How do you figure this one out? The ST's start at $1695. considering they are from the same company I would say they are a solid step up from their $1K cousins...

From what I have read about the AV123 speakers they are excellent as well. I haven't heard any of them though, but I know that they are favorably reviewed on the forums.

As far as claiming an ID companies speakers sounding as good as a retail companies speaker that costs twice as much... that claim is often a true statement, by cutting out the dealer they are able to offer their product at roughly 1/2 as much as a dealer would charge for the same item. There are always exceptions though, and sometimes a speaker design just doesn't sound right. Those are the ones that you never seem to hear anybody claiming that they are a great value. Another thing I want to note is that reading the forums you come across a great number of people complaining about this or that piece they have heard, or owned. I find it to be a remarkable testament to Salk speakers that there is very rarely any negative comments made about them. In such an anonymous environment it is all too easy to express your dismay, yet I have only read about one or possibly two people (penngray included) who have chosen another speaker over one of Jim's, when comparing at a similar price-point.

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post #923 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 05:48 PM
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"When a pair of HTS are $1K, they are going to be in the Song tower performance range. They are twice as much as the Rockets and 3 times as much as the Emotiva products. They built very well and look great (if people like gloss black) but performance wise I couldnt get the extra $$$ feeling out of them, that doesnt mean they are not great speakers just means the Rockets and the Emotiva products perform very well too."

Now I'm really confused. The HTS MTM costs around$1400 a pair, as does the Rocket 850 (sale price).
The HTS MT is around 1k. What exactly are you comparing with what? (BTW, I haven't heard any of these speakers--I just don't understand your post.)
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post #924 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree with PAD, but we all have different opinions and different gear paired with different room acoustics. There is no right or wrong opinion, just different ones.

Quote:
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True but from my reading I thought they are designed from the Song series. The HTS are custom built Home Theater speakers that have custom crossover setups.

When a pair of HTS are $1K, they are going to be in the Song tower performance range.

Penngray - this is totally incorrect. The ST's are $700 more. That can mean the world as for as performance differences go. That's like a $1500 difference in the B&M world. A speaker engineer can do a lot more with an extra $1500 added to the speaker budget.

Also, just to clarify, the statement about the speakers being as good as a pair of $3000 B&M speakers only applies to the Song Tower's. Both funkmonkey and I have made that statement, but neither of us have heard the HTS series speakers. Just because the ST's sound a ceratin way doesn't mean the HTS speakers will, so that statement should not be taken out of context and applied to a different Salk line, let alone a less costly one. I am just correcting what you said earlier so no one gets confused. In the end, you like what you like and I am happy for you. We may differ in opinion, but if yours is that the Rockets and Emotiva's are better - great! All that matters is that you are happy. Enjoy bud!


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post #925 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 06:18 PM
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Dennis how is the heart hope your health is good.I lost a good Friend to a bad heart 2 weeks ago.Me mine is doing good for 13 years now I do not what a norther 40th birthday heart hiccup.
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post #926 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 07:41 PM
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Dennis how is the heart hope your health is good.I lost a good Friend to a bad heart 2 weeks ago.Me mine is doing good for 13 years now I do not what a norther 40th birthday heart hiccup.

Hi Thanks for asking. I'm doing great. My problem was a congenital valve defect, not an actual heart attack. So--after the valve job--I don't feel like a 1972 Chevy Vega anymore. I'm not quite up to the level of a BMW 328i yet, but that's what I'm aiming for. The operation certainly cost that much.
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post #927 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 07:50 PM
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[quote]
Penngray - this is totally incorrect. The ST's are $700 more. That can mean the world as for as performance differences go. That's like a $1500 difference in the B&M world. A speaker engineer can do a lot more with an extra $1500 added to the speaker budget. [quote]

There's more room in the HTS budget for engineering than you might think. The HTS series uses Parts Express cabinets, which cost far less than the hand-made ST cabinets. I'm sure Jeff didn't spare any parts in the crossover. Plus, the tweeter costs as much as the 0W2, and the Vifa woofer is recognized for its low distortion. I really do need to hear those things, plus the Sound Portals (excuse me, the Salk No-Names.)
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post #928 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 07:54 PM
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No rocket I ever had could stand up to Salk speakers so maybe it is your system synergy that brings you to that decision. The Rockets are good speakers so don;t get me wrong, but the Salks just smacked them down in my 2 systems. That's why I don't own Rockets any longer. Both have great customer support as well. And you actually wait less time from Jim than AV123 to get speakers.

Again it is cool you like your speakers but in A SMACK down I doubt you did half of what I did over the past 3 weeks. Im not even trashing the salks but man people get a whole bunch of empty and 100% subjective opinion just to defend what they own.....sigh Heck, I doubt many ever ran FR plots or even know what they are.

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Penngray - this is totally incorrect. The ST's are $700 more. That can mean the world as for as performance differences go. That's like a $1500 difference in the B&M world. A speaker engineer can do a lot more with an extra $1500 added to the speaker budget.

Not arguing the B&M at all, I think my opinion about ID on here is pretty obvious Meaning, I 100% agree with you.

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How do you figure this one out? The ST's start at $1695. considering they are from the same company I would say they are a solid step up from their $1K cousins...

The MTMs are $1400!! so it IS IN THE SAME $$$/performance range and the HTS have those very nice ribbon tweeters. I think you have NO IDEA about the HTS and how they are built...they are CUSTOM BUILT with top end crossovers and tweeters!!

I actually have the MTs that are $1K, the only difference between the MTMs and the MTs is really just the SPL and what rooms they can fill with sound.


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All that matters is that you are happy. Enjoy bud!

Thanks, everything is subjective. I just hate the whole attitude that some people have thinking that only one person is building great products. Jim Salk is building great products but so its Mark over at AV123 and my point was that I demoed both products in house and I didnt choose the Salks in the end.

"They easily stand up to $3000 speakers and in most cases they still sound better. I think that it is safe to say that Jim doesn't have a very high profit margin on the ST's. You are getting top quality parts and craftsmanship at a literally rock bottom price."

Every word in this statement has been said about Mark and AV123 Products so Salks are not unique, I was just trying to point that out so that we dont go off the subjective deepend. No need to go further, its purely subjective banter and it never goes anywhere.

Back to the Salk love fest!

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post #929 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

The MTMs are $1400!! so it IS IN THE SAME $$$/performance range and the HTS have those very nice ribbon tweeters. I think you have NO IDEA about the HTS and how they are built...they are CUSTOM BUILT with top end crossovers and tweeters!!

I actually have the MTs that are $1K, the only difference between the MTMs and the MTs is really just the SPL and what rooms they can fill with sound.

Easy there cowboy, at what point exactly did I ever attack you??? Or your knowledge??? Or your opinion for that matter? Nor did I say anything about any of the parts or construction being sub-standard in the HTS series? I simply said that I would expect a $700 increase in price from one model to the next (within the same company) to be reflected in the sound. Period.
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...considering they are from the same company I would say they are a solid step up from their $1K cousins...

Sorry, but I still don't see where my knowledge about anything would come into play with this comment.


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I just hate the whole attitude that some people have thinking that only one person is building great products. Jim Salk is building great products but so its Mark over at AV123...

I agree with you, on all three points.

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Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post

From what I have read about the AV123 speakers they are excellent as well. I haven't heard any of them though, but I know that they are favorably reviewed on the forums.

There are several guys building great products out there. Jim is one, Mark is another. I truly wish them both all the success in the world. And I wish you many years of enjoyment out of the speakers that you chose. (Please keep your attacks directed at those who actually offended you.)

Cheers

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post #930 of 9259 Old 06-01-2008, 10:40 PM
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True but from my reading I thought they are designed from the Song series.

I think that is innacurate. I know Dennis designed the ST's, I don't think he designed the HTS. I'm fairly sure he was alluding to that fact by saying he's never heard them, and mentioning Jeff when talking about the crossover?

I don't think it would be fair to say that just because both speakers are from the same company that you can compare one design to another, especially when they were designed by different people. I suspect that both are quality speakers coming from Salk, but that doesn't mean you can directly compare them as 'equals'.
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