Klipsch RF VS Definitive technology - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 11-26-2007, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I went into a store looking for the below system. The salemen tried to push me into Def Tech instead bashing Klipsch the whole time . Now my friend has this setup with a Denon 3808 and I think it sounds great!! I did find out at the end they do not sell klipsch which is most likely when he based them.

I do not know the excat model of Def Tech but both Brands were around 2000 total. Can you give advice on which is better or what is the best for that money (also using Denon 3808)

here is what I went to get

RF-62BLA x2 also considering the 82's
RC-52BLA x1
RS-42BLA x2
RW-10DBLA x1

Also anyone know a good place to buy klipsch everywhere I look seems to be MSRP on them

Thanks in Advance
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post #2 of 50 Old 11-26-2007, 06:48 PM
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To me, Klipsch and Def Tech sound very different. FWIW, I prefer Def Tech, which I feel has a more laid back, "warm" sound. To me, Klipsch speakers were "brighter", with more emphasis on the high end of the spectrum. My dealer was really pushing Klipsch on me (even though he sells both brands). With that being said, don't let the dealer talk you into anything. Let your ears tell you which you prefer. They're both reputable manufacturers that stand behind their products.

Some people like Klipsch because they make very efficient speakers that are very easy for any amp/receiver to drive. I personally find them fatiguing to listen to for more than 10-15 minutes.

Conversely, some people absolutely HATE Def Tech, especially their bipolar speakers. Granted, the bipolars are more difficult to set up correctly than the direct-radiating Klipsch. Also, many people think that Def Tech "buys" their favorable reviews with the amount of advertising they do. Whatever. I think they're one of the best for home theater use, since they provide a very large soundstage, but are even good (not the best, but good) for 2-channel audio , again, if positioned correctly.

Try a different dealer. Don't be afraid to shop around. I know it's easy to get antsy when you're speaker shopping, and you probably just want to get it over with. But whichever brand you go with, it's going to be a fairly large investment, and arguably the most important for your long-term enjoyment of your audio system. Most importantly, have fun with it, take some of your own CDs when you're shopping, especially your favorite music that you know extremely well. Then whichever speaker reproduces the sound the best to you, go with it.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe. -- Albert Einstein
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post #3 of 50 Old 11-26-2007, 07:01 PM
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It doesnt matter what they tell you, YOU will be buying them. Buy what you like more

FWIW I have Klipsch Ref..... 82s, 52, and 2 RW12Ds. I personally like the brighter sound. But the supertowers sound pretty damn good

Drew
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post #4 of 50 Old 11-27-2007, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post

It doesnt matter what they tell you, YOU will be buying them. Buy what you like more

FWIW I have Klipsch Ref..... 82s, 52, and 2 RW12Ds. I personally like the brighter sound. But the supertowers sound pretty damn good

Quick questions, is the 52 center channel made of the 82 or would the 62 be better. Thank you.

And what does 2 RW12Ds do for you?

Just realize that I am hijacking this guys thread. I apologize. Please PM. Leaving the question just in case you are interested as well.
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post #5 of 50 Old 11-27-2007, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Management View Post

Quick questions, is the 52 center channel made of the 82 or would the 62 be better. Thank you.

And what does 2 RW12Ds do for you?

Just realize that I am hijacking this guys thread. I apologize. Please PM. Leaving the question just in case you are interested as well.

I know the question isn't addressed to me, but I'm awake so I'll answer it as best I can.

The RC-62 would best match the the RF-82; the RC-52 would best match the RF-52. It's best to get the same exact speaker for all three front speakers, but, since most of us are unable to do that due to space, it's second best to match driver size/material in the center channel to the front speakers.

Having 2 (stereo) subwoofers is a great way to smooth out the low frequencies in a room. If you only have one, it's easy to get some blooming or quieting of certain frequencies in the 20-120 Hz region of the frequency graph. You want the response from 20-20,000khz to be as flat as possible, which is hard enough to attain in a non-acoustically-treated room, and using two matching subs is an easy way to help with that.

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post #6 of 50 Old 11-27-2007, 06:14 AM
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I got the Synergy F-3 and I will get RC-52 instead of the C3 for the center because the stand has limited space.
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post #7 of 50 Old 11-27-2007, 07:40 AM
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Cydog you have to decide for yourself which you like best. They are both very good brands that sound great. But very very different. Look at the floorstanding listening thread they reviewed some def tech and everyone rated them pretty high. Just realize that all the comments are opinions and yours may differ.
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post #8 of 50 Old 11-27-2007, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Management View Post

Quick questions, is the 52 center channel made of the 82 or would the 62 be better. Thank you.

And what does 2 RW12Ds do for you?

Just realize that I am hijacking this guys thread. I apologize. Please PM. Leaving the question just in case you are interested as well.

I use to work for BB so thats all I could get... a 62 is a better center

Two subs are way more efficient

Oh yeah, I have an 8 inch sub on my center preout for more of a full range, works wonders!

Drew
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post #9 of 50 Old 11-27-2007, 09:12 AM
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Listen to both, choose which you like, ignore the dealers. Both are quality speakers. If the dealer is pushing one over another it's due to their personal preference, which is no better or worse than your own personal preference.
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post #10 of 50 Old 11-27-2007, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schroedk View Post

I know the question isn't addressed to me, but I'm awake so I'll answer it as best I can.

The RC-62 would best match the the RF-82; the RC-52 would best match the RF-52. It's best to get the same exact speaker for all three front speakers, but, since most of us are unable to do that due to space, it's second best to match driver size/material in the center channel to the front speakers.

Having 2 (stereo) subwoofers is a great way to smooth out the low frequencies in a room. If you only have one, it's easy to get some blooming or quieting of certain frequencies in the 20-120 Hz region of the frequency graph. You want the response from 20-20,000khz to be as flat as possible, which is hard enough to attain in a non-acoustically-treated room, and using two matching subs is an easy way to help with that.

I appreciate it. Thank you for the incite. Only asked because I am considering the 82s with the 62.
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post #11 of 50 Old 11-27-2007, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post

I use to work for BB so thats all I could get... a 62 is a better center

Two subs are way more efficient

Oh yeah, I have an 8 inch sub on my center preout for more of a full range, works wonders!

I see and man I wish I could use 2 subs.
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post #12 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks I think I will go with Klipsch only issue now is size of the floor standing is much larger so have to measure
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post #13 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schroedk View Post

To me, Klipsch and Def Tech sound very different. FWIW, I prefer Def Tech, which I feel has a more laid back, "warm" sound. To me, Klipsch speakers were "brighter", with more emphasis on the high end of the spectrum. My dealer was really pushing Klipsch on me (even though he sells both brands). With that being said, don't let the dealer talk you into anything. Let your ears tell you which you prefer. They're both reputable manufacturers that stand behind their products.

Some people like Klipsch because they make very efficient speakers that are very easy for any amp/receiver to drive. I personally find them fatiguing to listen to for more than 10-15 minutes.

Conversely, some people absolutely HATE Def Tech, especially their bipolar speakers. Granted, the bipolars are more difficult to set up correctly than the direct-radiating Klipsch. Also, many people think that Def Tech "buys" their favorable reviews with the amount of advertising they do. Whatever. I think they're one of the best for home theater use, since they provide a very large soundstage, but are even good (not the best, but good) for 2-channel audio , again, if positioned correctly.

Try a different dealer. Don't be afraid to shop around. I know it's easy to get antsy when you're speaker shopping, and you probably just want to get it over with. But whichever brand you go with, it's going to be a fairly large investment, and arguably the most important for your long-term enjoyment of your audio system. Most importantly, have fun with it, take some of your own CDs when you're shopping, especially your favorite music that you know extremely well. Then whichever speaker reproduces the sound the best to you, go with it.

I completely agree with this post. I auditioned both Klipsch and DefTech setups and decided that I liked the warmer and more full sound of the DefTech's. Picked up an entire 7.1 setup for under $2k.
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post #14 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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LPCHRIS
what model Def Tech did you get for under 2k ?
I was looking at the following
Front -Mythos ones
Sub-supercude
Center- Def Tech mythos seven
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post #15 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 11:50 AM
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BP7006 SuperTowers - $540 each
PC1000 Center Channel - $180
4 PM800 Surrounds - $112 each

I got 10% off the retail price (reflected above) at Best Buy using a coupon that's still in effect until the end of the year.
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post #16 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 12:04 PM
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I just got back from BB and listened between the Klipsch 82's and the Def 7002 and i prefer the 82s over the 7002
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post #17 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by flykid83 View Post

I just got back from BB and listened between the Klipsch 82's and the Def 7002 and i prefer the 82s over the 7002

Exactly why you, the buyer, the one spending your hard-earned money, should listen and trust your own ears, rather than what some salesman is attempting to convince you of. Hope you enjoy the 82's if you get them!

Along the same topic, I had my DLP monitor ISF-calibrated this week, and we were discussing audio vs. video tastes, equipment that's out there, etc. We both agreed that while there are a lot of different video technologies out there (LCD, LCOS, DLP, plasma, etc.), there are still standards with relation to colorimetry, etc., that all TVs/projectors can be dialed into, or at least close to. However, with audio, everything is much more subjective. Two different speakers can play reasonably flat response across the spectrum, and the specs on the paper can be identical, but can sound vastly different to different people.

So, lesson is, take everything the salesman says with a huge grain of salt. Remember, they really don't care too much about your enjoyment after you leave the store; most of them are much more interested in pushing their favorite products and/or the more expensive product. Trust your own judgment when it comes to buying speakers. You're the one that's going to have to listen to them everyday. Just don't expect everyone else to appreciate them as much as you do (that's especially true of Bose owners ).

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post #18 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by flykid83 View Post

I just got back from BB and listened between the Klipsch 82's and the Def 7002 and i prefer the 82s over the 7002

I work at BB, so with my discount I'm planning on getting the DT BP7004 or BP7002 and I listened to both Def-Techs vs. the RF-82s and I thought the RF-82s sounded horrible with far too much in the highs, not enough mid and low.

See, this is where personal taste and opinion come into play. My money will go on Def-Techs, yours probably on Klipsch. Are both good? Yes.
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post #19 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 01:16 PM
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Exactly. I mean don't get me wrong. I liked the Def but it sounded very low and it just didnt catch my ears. Maybe the guy at BB didn't know how to use it but the 82's sounded very crisp and i liked them, and this is the thrird time i heard them. Now don't get me wrong, I also listed to the f-3's for the hell of it and they sounded beyond horriable, very loud hissing sound when playing the music section. But like you all said, everyone has thier own taaste.
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post #20 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schroedk View Post

Granted, the bipolars are more difficult to set up correctly than the direct-radiating Klipsch.


Note that most Klipsch speakers are only direct radiating from the woofers with the treble horn loaded. And some Klipsch speakers are completely horn loaded and not direct radiating at all---The Khorn, LaScala and Jubilee.

However Def-Techs appear to be totally direct radiating.
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post #21 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Tom Brennan View Post

Note that most Klipsch speakers are only direct radiating from the woofers with the treble horn loaded. And some Klipsch speakers are completely horn loaded and not direct radiating at all---The Khorn, LaScala and Jubilee.

However Def-Techs appear to be totally direct radiating.

They are bi-polar. Klipsch horns are direct radiating. In fact the horns have less directional dispersion and reflect less than cone speakers or dome speakers.
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post #22 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 06:29 PM
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They are bi-polar. Klipsch horns are direct radiating. In fact the horns have less directional dispersion and reflect less than cone speakers.


A bi-polar speaker can be a direct radiator, in fact I've never seen one that wasn't. By it's very nature a horn can't be a direct radiator. Read your Olson.

"Acoustical Engineering" by Harry Olson. Chapter VI, page 124 "Direct Radiator Loudspeakers"

"6.1 Introduction---A loudspeaker is an electroacoustic transducer designed to radiate acoustical energy into a room or open air. There are two general types of loudspeakers in use today, namely: the direct radiator and the horn type loudspeaker. The diaphragm of the direct radiator loudspeaker is coupled directly to the air. The diaphragm of the horn loudspeaker is coupled to the air by means of a horn......"

So a direct radiator can be a monopole, a dipole, a bipole or an omni---dispersion and pattern has nothing to do with how the diaphragm is coupled to the air. The opposite of direct radiator is INDIRECT radiator which means horns and bandpass boxes.

Several years ago technically ignorant HT magazine writers stumbled on the term, thought it sounded cool and started misusing it. Just as the term bi-amping is now misused to the point that a complex discussion is needed just to get back to the basics.
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post #23 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Brennan View Post

A bi-polar speaker can be a direct radiator, in fact I've never seen one that wasn't. By it's very nature a horn can't be a direct radiator. Read your Olson.

"Acoustical Engineering" by Harry Olson. Chapter VI, page 124 "Direct Radiator Loudspeakers"

"6.1 Introduction---A loudspeaker is an electroacoustic transducer designed to radiate acoustical energy into a room or open air. There are two general types of loudspeakers in use today, namely: the direct radiator and the horn type loudspeaker. The diaphragm of the direct radiator loudspeaker is coupled directly to the air. The diaphragm of the horn loudspeaker is coupled to the air by means of a horn......"

So a direct radiator can be a monopole, a dipole, a bipole or an omni---dispersion and pattern has nothing to do with how the diaphragm is coupled to the air. The opposite of direct radiator is INDIRECT radiator which means horns and bandpass boxes.

Several years ago technically ignorant HT magazine writers stumbled on the term, thought it sounded cool and started misusing it. Just as the term bi-amping is now misused to the point that a complex discussion is needed just to get back to the basics.

Very informative. Thank you for this.
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post #24 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schroedk View Post

I know the question isn't addressed to me, but I'm awake so I'll answer it as best I can.

The RC-62 would best match the the RF-82; the RC-52 would best match the RF-52. It's best to get the same exact speaker for all three front speakers, but, since most of us are unable to do that due to space, it's second best to match driver size/material in the center channel to the front speakers.

Close but you missed one. The order of best possible match for the RF-82's is as follows:
RF-82. Three across the front is the ultimate.

RB-81 is the best match for the RF-82's in a smaller space if you can fit a vertically oriented center. Identical woofer and horn/compression driver. I sell this combo all the time.

RC-62 only if you have to go with the horizontal center array.

"Did you make 'em fine-ass-soundin' speakers over there what would sound gooder than hell comin' out of the back of my truck-boat-truck?"

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post #25 of 50 Old 11-28-2007, 10:01 PM
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Close but you missed one. The order of best possible match for the RF-82's is as follows:
RF-82. Three across the front is the ultimate.

RB-81 is the best match for the RF-82's in a smaller space if you can fit a vertically oriented center. Identical woofer and horn/compression driver. I sell this combo all the time.

RC-62 only if you have to go with the horizontal center array.

Are you serious!?
Can you elaborate a little more why this is true.
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post #26 of 50 Old 11-29-2007, 03:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tom Brennan View Post

A bi-polar speaker can be a direct radiator, in fact I've never seen one that wasn't. By it's very nature a horn can't be a direct radiator. Read your Olson.

"Acoustical Engineering" by Harry Olson. Chapter VI, page 124 "Direct Radiator Loudspeakers"

"6.1 Introduction---A loudspeaker is an electroacoustic transducer designed to radiate acoustical energy into a room or open air. There are two general types of loudspeakers in use today, namely: the direct radiator and the horn type loudspeaker. The diaphragm of the direct radiator loudspeaker is coupled directly to the air. The diaphragm of the horn loudspeaker is coupled to the air by means of a horn......"

So a direct radiator can be a monopole, a dipole, a bipole or an omni---dispersion and pattern has nothing to do with how the diaphragm is coupled to the air. The opposite of direct radiator is INDIRECT radiator which means horns and bandpass boxes.

Several years ago technically ignorant HT magazine writers stumbled on the term, thought it sounded cool and started misusing it. Just as the term bi-amping is now misused to the point that a complex discussion is needed just to get back to the basics.

Any audio discusion can become complex. What about electrostatics? Do you or Olson call them direct radiating? Sorry, I can not consider a bipolar to be direct since it is designed to be more omni directional than direct. Regardles, bipolars do sound different ( not in a bad way), just different like a horn.

BTW, Is Barney Miller's still open? I visited there a few years back. It was like going back in time as the store was not so modern. I miss those bygone years when this hobby was not so complicated. Most shop owners were audio enthusiasts who got as much pleasure from chatting with shoppers as they did from making a big sell. Better close before I reveal my old age.
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post #27 of 50 Old 11-29-2007, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMAN21 View Post

Any audio discusion can become complex. What about electrostatics? Do you or Olson call them direct radiating? Sorry, I can not consider a bipolar to be direct since it is designed to be more omni directional than direct.

Commonly electrostats are direct radiators with the diaphragm working directly against the air. Since most electrostats radiate sound front and rear they are dipolar direct radiators.

In the past there was an experimental electrostat which was horn loaded and thus not a direct radiator. And the Beveridge electrostat was a monopolar design that radiated indirectly by means of a channel and lens. So whether or not an electrostat is direct radiating can vary.

What has become confused here is the manner in which sound is radiated and the direction in which it's radiated. Speakers that deliver sound to the front only are monopoles and are not always direct radiators. Speakers that deliver sound front and rear are dipoles or bipoles and may be direct radiators, in fact they usually are.

Millers in still in downtown Lexington. Very slick place, not my kind of store. Big on B&W speakers. My kind of place is Pop's resale where I buy lots of LPs cheap.

Kind Regards
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post #28 of 50 Old 11-29-2007, 06:03 AM
 
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Klipsch speakers literally hurt my ears. Listening to them for extended periods gives me migraines. My Def Techs, on the other hand, sound wonerful for hours on end with no fatigue at all.
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post #29 of 50 Old 11-29-2007, 07:25 AM
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I downloaded some Christmas music last night and my dear lord does it sound amazing on the DefTech BP7006's. I don't think people give the little guy of the series the credit it deserves for the awesome sound they can produce.
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post #30 of 50 Old 11-29-2007, 07:35 AM
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Cydog you'll enjoy them. I believe setup is the key to these speakers. When I first got mine I was somewhat disappointed by the sound until I got the calibration dialed in like it needed. After that they have been very decent speakers for HT. Ignore all the posts that bash Klipsch and enjoy. It is your money after all.
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