can i use left and right speaker as center speaker? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 12-05-2007, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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what is a different between speaker that are built to use for center placement and those speakers that use for left and right placement?
Reason being is that i already have left and right and i've found a good deal on another pair of left and right, could i just use the spare pair for center channel?
thanks u
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post #2 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 12:13 AM
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You could use another SINGLE speaker that is the same as your current L/R's as a center, but there is a good reason you don't wan't to use two speakers for a center channel. When you send a mono signal to two speakers, the sound coming from both with cancel out at some frequencies, making the sound very uneven.
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post #3 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 12:15 AM
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Actually that is the best match you can actually get across the front. The only reason the center speaker is horizontal is for ascetic reasons. You will get perfect timbre matching across the front using the exact same speaker. Many people do it here on AVS from what I have read.
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post #4 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 05:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Management View Post

Actually that is the best match you can actually get across the front. The only reason the center speaker is horizontal is for ascetic reasons. You will get perfect timbre matching across the front using the exact same speaker. Many people do it here on AVS from what I have read.


Well actually he wouldn't get a perfect timber match unless the height of the center was the same height as the mains (if even then) but your point is good and I agree that the best speaker to use as a center is the exact same speaker you use for mains. But as the first responder said, only use one, not two.
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post #5 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atdamico View Post

Well actually he wouldn't get a perfect timber match unless the height of the center was the same height as the mains (if even then) but your point is good and I agree that the best speaker to use as a center is the exact same speaker you use for mains. But as the first responder said, only use one, not two.

You are absolutely right. But yes I don't understand why someone would use two. I gave him the benefit of the doubt ... plus he asked if he could use a spare so I figured he was using only one. Maybe he can put the other one in the back as a rear in a 6.1.
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post #6 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Management View Post

Actually that is the best match you can actually get across the front. The only reason the center speaker is horizontal is for ascetic reasons.

An ascetic would only have stereo.

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post #7 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, yeah i was planning on using 2 (placing them next to the left and right and pointing toward the center) due to the design of the room, thus the screen size is too big, making it harder for me to place it in the center. unless i place them flat on the floor or mount them on top of the ceiling.


The 2 spare speakers that i have isn't match with the one i currently have for left and right. But if you guys dont recommend 2 speakers for main, i will have to look into trying to place one in the middle then. Here is the picture, As u can see the height of the screen is reach top to bottom leaving 6 inches from each sizes. There are movie where i can use 2:35:1 mode which make it long and narrower but there are some movie that would go full screen.
If i was to place the speaker in the center it would have the dimension height of less than 6 inches and i dont even if it will sound good laying on the floor like that. I'm using 2 speaker now for the front, it seemed fine to me but then again i'm not so good in the sound department to notice differences.

any recommend speaker for my center, (i'm using Onkyo sr800 and my left and right speaker are DCM) maybe i will just use one of the spare. My question is, what is the different between the built for speaker to use in the center and the built for speakers to use for left and right?
Thanks again for the advices
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post #8 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atdamico View Post

Well actually he wouldn't get a perfect timber match unless the height of the center was the same height as the mains (if even then) but your point is good and I agree that the best speaker to use as a center is the exact same speaker you use for mains. But as the first responder said, only use one, not two.

He wouldn't get a perfect timber match unless the center had the exact same finish as the L/Rs.

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post #9 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 06:50 AM
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same speaker for center as your R/L? huh....didn't know that.

so i assume all 5 the same in a 5.1 would be the ideal situation? same for 6.1/7.1.
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post #10 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnord View Post

same speaker for center as your R/L? huh....didn't know that.

so i assume all 5 the same in a 5.1 would be the ideal situation? same for 6.1/7.1.

That would work best: but placement issues can affect the way a speaker sounds, so sometimes purpose-built speakers work better. Boundary compensation switches can help reduce the effects of placement differences.

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post #11 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowblanket View Post

Thanks guys, yeah i was planning on using 2 (placing them next to the left and right and pointing toward the center) due to the design of the room, thus the screen size is too big, making it harder for me to place it in the center. unless i place them flat on the floor or mount them on top of the ceiling.


The 2 spare speakers that i have isn't match with the one i currently have for left and right. But if you guys dont recommend 2 speakers for main, i will have to look into trying to place one in the middle then. Here is the picture, As u can see the height of the screen is reach top to bottom leaving 6 inches from each sizes. There are movie where i can use 2:35:1 mode which make it long and narrower but there are some movie that would go full screen.
If i was to place the speaker in the center it would have the dimension height of less than 6 inches and i dont even if it will sound good laying on the floor like that. I'm using 2 speaker now for the front, it seemed fine to me but then again i'm not so good in the sound department to notice differences.

any recommend speaker for my center, (i'm using Onkyo sr800 and my left and right speaker are DCM) maybe i will just use one of the spare. My question is, what is the different between the built for speaker to use in the center and the built for speakers to use for left and right?
Thanks again for the advices

Using two speakers like that for center would defeat most of the purpose of having a center, you'd be better of just running 4.1 with a phantom center.

I can't really see your seating very well, but I'm guessing you will probably want to turn your L & R speakers in so they're directed more towards the seating.
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post #12 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 09:21 AM
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Off topic a little, I'd consider getting some kind of sound treatment on that concrete wall, which will help you more than any center channel decision.

How big is that screen going to be? It looks like it's going to be huge!
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post #13 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GoND View Post

Off topic a little, I'd consider getting some kind of sound treatment on that concrete wall, which will help you more than any center channel decision.

How big is that screen going to be? It looks like it's going to be huge!

oh i didn't know that wall will have much impact on the sound, i was planing on grafiti that wall. It is lead to the stair way so i can't put any stud and built drywall there. and i couldn't afford those sound accoustic panel either.
the screen is 147 inches in full mode, here is the picture of it in 2:35:1
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post #14 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by yellowblanket View Post

oh i didn't know that wall will have much impact on the sound, i was planing on grafiti that wall. It is lead to the stair way so i can't put any stud and built drywall there. and i couldn't afford those sound accoustic panel either.
the screen is 147 inches in full mode, here is the picture of it in 2:35:1

I like the setup, I wish I had the room to do a screen that big. That's what I get for finishing my basement before considering a home theater.

The wall might not be a problem, I just know that generally speaking concrete can sometimes have adverse affects on the sound, maybe others can chime in on whether or not they notice a difference in similar situations.
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post #15 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 01:20 PM
 
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A theater without a center channel is not a theater, IMO. Its a must. Make it happen, somehow. Otherwise, its a stereo with a surround.
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post #16 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 01:21 PM
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Why not just use the two floor speakers and the subwoofer?

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post #17 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

That would work best: but placement issues can affect the way a speaker sounds, so sometimes purpose-built speakers work better. Boundary compensation switches can help reduce the effects of placement differences.

I would beg to differ. But this goes into personal taste once you start talking about surrounds. I don't like directional surrounds. I prefer to have dipoles. But that is just me. I would rather put that money into a sub or two or three.
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post #18 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnord View Post

same speaker for center as your R/L? huh....didn't know that.

so i assume all 5 the same in a 5.1 would be the ideal situation? same for 6.1/7.1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

That would work best: but placement issues can affect the way a speaker sounds, so sometimes purpose-built speakers work better. Boundary compensation switches can help reduce the effects of placement differences.

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Originally Posted by Management View Post

I would beg to differ. But this goes into personal taste once you start talking about surrounds. I don't like directional surrounds. I prefer to have dipoles. But that is just me. I would rather put that money into a sub or two or three.

What do you "differ" with? He said "......sometimes purpose-built speakers work better".

And what money is it that you would you prefer to put into a sub or 2 or 3? Where are you going to save enough money for multiple subs?

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post #19 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 04:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by txredneckbud View Post

A theater without a center channel is not a theater, IMO. Its a must. Make it happen, somehow. Otherwise, its a stereo with a surround.

Simply not true. The material mixed for the center channel is not lost. It is sent to the front mains. While sitting in the sweet spot I suspect that you wouldn't even be able to tell that the center was missing. Do a search and read the threads posted on this subject. There are a lot of people who don't use a center channel and their systems are outstanding and might just sound as good, if not better, than yours. And this is not an opinion.
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post #20 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

What do you "differ" with? He said "......sometimes purpose-built speakers work better".

And what money is it that you would you prefer to put into a sub or 2 or 3? Where are you going to save enough money for multiple subs?

The difference in opinion came when he agreed that the same speaker is best all around, including 6.1 and 7.1. I don't really agree that the same speakers upfront are best for surround because I do not like directional surrounds.

Plus I cannot build my own surrounds so I don't have an opinion on that. For example if I purchase 3 Klipsch RF-82s for the front I don't think I would purchase two more for the surrounds. I can save money buy purchasing a pair of RS-52s and but that extra money toward a better sub. When I said 2 or 3 I was exaggerating. Loosen up.

I do agree that "purpose built" (I read this wrong I admit) work best so I guess I agree with him on that respect. Thank you for point that out.
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post #21 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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ok, so i went to Circuitcity today to get those speakers to use for my front. It was the Polk M20, (dirt cheap $97.49 buy one get one half off) it have outstanding reviews. I hooked it up as my center channel and urgh, it sound bad, not very good at all for dialog. I tried hook up 2 of them as center and it still sound bad. Just before i go out to return them, i tried hooking up as left and right speakers. THEY SOUND AMAZING!
So...i am keeping them for my room upstair =)
But my conclusion is if you need center speaker get the speaker that IS built for center speaker. So i will now wait for better deal on center speaker.
Oh and if anyone need the left and right speaker, i would suggest jump on that deal at CC, any Polk speaker is buy one get one half off. The M20 sound freakin amazing.
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post #22 of 44 Old 12-06-2007, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnord View Post

same speaker for center as your R/L?

Sure. If your front soundstage is made up of 2 speakers, you'd use identical ones. Why would it be any different when your front soundstage is made up of 3 (or more) speakers?

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post #23 of 44 Old 12-07-2007, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowblanket View Post

ok, so i went to Circuitcity today to get those speakers to use for my front. It was the Polk M20, (dirt cheap $97.49 buy one get one half off) it have outstanding reviews. I hooked it up as my center channel and urgh, it sound bad, not very good at all for dialog. I tried hook up 2 of them as center and it still sound bad. Just before i go out to return them, i tried hooking up as left and right speakers. THEY SOUND AMAZING!
So...i am keeping them for my room upstair =)
But my conclusion is if you need center speaker get the speaker that IS built for center speaker. So i will now wait for better deal on center speaker.
Oh and if anyone need the left and right speaker, i would suggest jump on that deal at CC, any Polk speaker is buy one get one half off. The M20 sound freakin amazing.

Do you also have the Polk M20s as your mains and then you hooked up another as your center and it sounded terrible? Did you double check your connections and receiver settings?
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post #24 of 44 Old 12-07-2007, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
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i double checked. I even raised up the db for center channel but still doesnt help. And no, i dont have the m20 as my main, i have the DCM as main
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post #25 of 44 Old 12-07-2007, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Sure. If your front soundstage is made up of 2 speakers, you'd use identical ones. Why would it be any different when your front soundstage is made up of 3 (or more) speakers?

Sanjay


because i *thought* that centers might have some resistors/capacitors/crossovers in them intended to focus on voice output, and that in conjunction with whatever decoding is in the receiver, it gets the job done. i'm not saying this is the case by any means, i'm just saying that's what i had previously *thought.*

BTW...i did some searching on the phantom center stuff previously mentioned, as i was hoping i could do it, making my search for a tv stand infinitely easier. it seems as though you have to create pretty ideal situations to make it work well, which i most certainly do not have.
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post #26 of 44 Old 12-07-2007, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tnord View Post

because i *thought* that centers might have some resistors/capacitors/crossovers in them intended to focus on voice output, and that in conjunction with whatever decoding is in the receiver, it gets the job done. i'm not saying this is the case by any means, i'm just saying that's what i had previously *thought.*

In fact, it is not the case. Most center channels are driven by marketing and not sonic considerations. They are a compromise, dictated by the need to fill the space below (or above) a television. A vertical speaker will work much better in the horizontal plane (kind of the point of a center speaker) and disperse the sound more uniformly over the seating area. The horizontal speaker will disperse sound better in the vertical plane (allowing the centrally located listener to hear good sound whether seated on the floor or standing up) but does not do real well off the horizontal axis.

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post #27 of 44 Old 12-07-2007, 08:37 AM
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I would try out the two speakers and see how it sounds. Just hook up a in line switch to one of the speakers so you can turn it on and off from where you are sitting.

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post #28 of 44 Old 12-07-2007, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

In fact, it is not the case. Most center channels are driven by marketing and not sonic considerations. They are a compromise, dictated by the need to fill the space below (or above) a television. A vertical speaker will work much better in the horizontal plane (kind of the point of a center speaker) and disperse the sound more uniformly over the seating area. The horizontal speaker will disperse sound better in the vertical plane (allowing the centrally located listener to hear good sound whether seated on the floor or standing up) but does not do real well off the horizontal axis.

TRUE.

Several weeks ago I read a very good, albeit technical, thread on why the center channel speaker should be mounted vertically (not horizontally, which is driven by how it looks, not how it performs). Just wish I could find it so I could include the link here.

As a point of reference, notice that at the big outdoor (and indoor?) concerts, those huge speaker arrays are stacked in the vertical plane, which spreads the sound in the horizontal plane. Lobing.
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post #29 of 44 Old 12-07-2007, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnord View Post

i'm not saying this is the case by any means, i'm just saying that's what i had previously *thought.*

Understood. My point was that folks tend to think in terms of adding a centre to their mains, when instead they should continue to think the way they did for 2-speaker set-ups. Rather than trying to find a "matching" centre, consider starting from the premise that your front soundstage is now made up of 3 speakers.

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post #30 of 44 Old 12-07-2007, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yobob View Post

Several weeks ago I read a very good, albeit technical, thread on why the center channel speaker should be mounted vertically (not horizontally, which is driven by how it looks, not how it performs). Just wish I could find it so I could include the link here.

Gee, I wonder if I had participated in that thread?

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