How is speaker size related to frequency response??? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Yeto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If headphones can produce frequencies just as low as a 12" subwoofer why would we ever buy a 12" sub?

I know in my lead guitar playing days if the amp I was using did not have a 12" speaker it didn't sound right to my ears so speaker size must affect the sound in some way.

Do we "feel" the sound more if we have larger speakers(is this the reason we buy 12" subs)?

Thanks,
Yeto
Yeto is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 05:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tonygeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Near Cape Cod
Posts: 5,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeto View Post

If headphones can produce frequencies just as low as a 12" subwoofer why would we ever buy a 12" sub?

I know in my lead guitar playing days if the amp I was using did not have a 12" speaker it didn't sound right to my ears so speaker size must affect the sound in some way.

Do we "feel" the sound more if we have larger speakers(is this the reason we buy 12" subs)?

Thanks,
Yeto

Will your headphones fill a room with low frequencies? That's the difference.

Tony

In search of the Holy Grail.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tonygeno is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 05:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
DamageMcRamage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Is it really possible for headphones to go down as low as a subwoofer?

I like Ice Cream!
DamageMcRamage is offline  
post #4 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 06:24 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Nuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Headphones certainly won't make you and your body "feel" the bass.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
Nuance is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 06:29 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Paul Scarpelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 5,935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Headphones certainly won't make you and your body "feel" the bass.

Some of those old Koss headphones that were as big as two Johnny Bench catcher's mitts could POUND your head with bass.

Paul Scarpelli
aka TRIAD DUDE

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Paul Scarpelli is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 06:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
buzzy_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 48
A whole bunch of people are saying, Johnny who?, oldtimer.
buzzy_ is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 06:59 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Paul Scarpelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 5,935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

A whole bunch of people are saying, Johnny who?, oldtimer.

Ouch, you punk.

Paul Scarpelli
aka TRIAD DUDE

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Paul Scarpelli is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Yeto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
so speaker size equals "volume of sound"

is the answer to my question that simple?

Thanks,
Yeto
Yeto is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 08:03 AM
Advanced Member
 
Logic_BomB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 771
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeto View Post

so speaker size equals "volume of sound"

is the answer to my question that simple?

Thanks,
Yeto

It would be like asking "how is car size related to horsepower". It depends.

Yes, a larger speaker should be able to put out more sound but that's simply because it can move more air. With speakers though you (hopefully) care more about the noise it puts out rather than how loud that noise is.

Sensitivity, frequency response, size, materials used, number of drivers, types of drivers, bracing in the enclosure, and a hell of a lot more attribute to how a speaker sounds. Also, your own personal preference comes into play.
Logic_BomB is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 08:28 AM
 
PULLIAMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 8,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Some of those old Koss headphones that were as big as two Johnny Bench catcher's mitts could POUND your head with bass.

Your head, yes. Not the rest of you, though.
Johnny who?
PULLIAMM is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 08:31 AM
 
PULLIAMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 8,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I recently saw an ad for speakers that use a single 3" driver in a 3" X 37" tube, and claim 40Hz-20kHz +/-3dB. A dubious claim at best, but impressive if true.
PULLIAMM is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 08:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tonygeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Near Cape Cod
Posts: 5,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I recently saw an ad for speakers that use a single 3" driver in a 3" X 37" tube, and claim 40Hz-20kHz +/-3dB. A dubious claim at best, but impressive if true.

Were they Definitive Technology?

+/-3db is possible, but at what output level? As the speakers get loud, the distortion down low will increase and will begin to muddy the midrange too.

Tony

In search of the Holy Grail.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tonygeno is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 08:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
DamageMcRamage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Headphones certainly won't make you and your body "feel" the bass.

Thats understood, but I have a hard time rationalizing a pair of headphones could dip down to say 25 Hz. If it is possible, that is impressive.

I like Ice Cream!
DamageMcRamage is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 09:01 AM
 
PULLIAMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 8,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Were they Definitive Technology?

No. They were called "Jazz", by a company called MasterSource. I briefly considered trying a pair, but I don't believe that their claim is possible (a quick calculation shows that they have less than half the cabinet volume and less than a third of the driver area of my tiny Mirage Omni 150s!)
PULLIAMM is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 09:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
oztech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 7,660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 93
a lot of speakers and headphones can go down to 25hz but not with any authority
no substitute for cubic inches except more of them.
oztech is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 09:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tonygeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Near Cape Cod
Posts: 5,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

a lot of speakers and headphones can go down to 25hz but not with any authority
no substitute for cubic inches except more of them.

As my uncle used to say, nothing like piston area to produce loud and low.

Tony

In search of the Holy Grail.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tonygeno is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 11:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Brennan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

As my uncle used to say, nothing like piston area to produce loud and low.

True. But then you have the idiots who think big drivers are "slow".
Tom Brennan is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Renob101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


But then you have the idiots who think big drivers are "slow".

Ouch, thats not nice!
Renob101 is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 11:36 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Paul Scarpelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 5,935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Brennan View Post

True. But then you have the idiots who think big drivers are "slow".

They're not idiots! They just haven't talked to Keith Yates for three hours about it.

Yes, there is no such thing as a *fast* subwoofer.

Paul Scarpelli
aka TRIAD DUDE

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Paul Scarpelli is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 11:40 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Paul Scarpelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 5,935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 37
This thread shouldn't be titled "How is speaker size related to frequency response," but, rather "How is speaker *size* related to bass extension?" A 1" dome tweeter may play 8 kHz louder than a 1.5" dome tweeter. A 2-way speaker may play louder than a 4-way with a 15" woofer. It probably won't have as much bass extension, though.

Also, bass is about moving air, and cone diameter alone isn't the whole story. There is also power handling, excursion, and the most important variable of all...marketing.

Paul Scarpelli
aka TRIAD DUDE

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Paul Scarpelli is offline  
post #21 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 12:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
Logic_BomB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 771
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

There is also power handling, excursion, and the most important variable of all...marketing.

I hear Bose makes a killer brand of kool-aid. People drink that stuff like water!
Logic_BomB is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 12:53 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Chu Gai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NYC area
Posts: 14,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 463
Well, if they were fast Tom, they'd be tweeters

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
Chu Gai is online now  
post #23 of 23 Old 12-11-2007, 01:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Brennan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
One can't blame people for thinking that a large woofer in and of itself will go deeper than a smaller one, even though it very well may not.

As many here know that larger woofer must be in a correspondingly larger box than a small woofer to go deeper, Hoffman's Iron Law and all that.

For instance my Altec Nineteens use a 15" woofer and are very efficient, 98db, and go fairly deep, f3 around 35hz, the penalty being a box of about 13 cubic feet.

No free lunch.
Tom Brennan is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off