Best In-Wall speaker shoot-out! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 12-11-2007, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi:

I have been reading the various inwall speaker threads and the input of various forum members. It seems that choosing the correct speaker, for me at least, has been the toughest part of my install project.

I truly wish that one of the A/V mags would have some type of in-wall speaker shootout, similar to car and drivers sedan or coupe shootouts. That might help. I will be powering the spkrs with the PIO 130 watt/ch receiver in a 17x20 hard surface high ceiling room.

I have narrowed MY field down to the rbh's, kef, klipsch ultra, sunfire xt, niles stagefronts and triads. Still checking out bayaudio, psb, paradigm. For what its worth after doing all this research I think what is important and in no order is the following for in-walls (enclosed back is mandatory):

Sensitivity, freq. resp., material used for the drivers and weight. While many like the Atlantic Technology 626 they only weigh 9 lbs. The rbh and triads are very heavy. That must mean something. The sunfires get raves from the salemen and Carver designed them but the freq. resp. starts at 80hz and the minimum power is 25 watts. They handle 400. Plus they use a ribbon tweeter, also something unique among the other brands. Those specs seem off the chart compared to all others. They actually scare me, but perhaps in a good way. I'm not so sure if the 80 hz is all that important because I truly do not understand the affect. I'm assuming its not a bassy speaker and is depending on the sub-woofer to handle the bass.

It's impossible to hear all these speakers especially because they are in-walls and showroom setups are severely limited. Any comments again appreciated. Regards...

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post #2 of 36 Old 12-11-2007, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got off the phone with Sunfire and I have to say I'm dissappointed. Their customer service is very weak. It sounds like they have a very very very limited staff. I was inquiring about the csw-3 in-walls, noting that there arent any pictures on the site with grills. After I held on, she came back and said there are no grills. what you see is what you get.

Can that be? the speaker drivers are out there for all to see? If so thats a deal breaker for me. I was very close to getting these...

Cust. serv. is so very important. My brother has a pair of defintive technology speakers he bgt in 1995. His surrounds were dried up and coming apart. basically they were ruined. He called definitive to inquire how to get them repaired and if it paid etc. They told him to ship the speakers to them. They would install new woofers and pay the return s/h. no charge for the speakers or labor. NOW THATS IMPRESSIVE....

I think I'll check out some definitive's right now...Regards...

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post #3 of 36 Old 12-11-2007, 04:10 PM
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I have a pair of UIW 55s using for my side surrounds for a HT system. I listened to them in the store and was impressed and bought them. However, I don't have them installed just yet.
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post #4 of 36 Old 12-11-2007, 04:44 PM
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post #5 of 36 Old 12-11-2007, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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They don't come with an enclosed rear. Same goes for B&G. I'm old school. I just can't see backless designs sounding as good as enclosed designs. Regards...

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post #6 of 36 Old 12-11-2007, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javatime View Post

I have a pair of UIW 55s using for my side surrounds for a HT system. I listened to them in the store and was impressed and bought them. However, I don't have them installed just yet.

They're not an enclosed speaker which is one of the OP's requirements. The Def Tech Reference Architectural Series is enclosed:
http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...eference_.html

Quote:


I'm not so sure if the 80 hz is all that important because I truly do not understand the affect. I'm assuming its not a bassy speaker and is depending on the sub-woofer to handle the bass.

There are no in-walls, including the Def Tech's (which are rated to (ahem) 22 Hz, (cough, gag, wheeze), that should be used without a subwoofer. Asking an in-wall to dig into the 30's or the 20's is just asking for trouble with buzzes, vibrations and rattles from the walls, even with an enclosure. Virtually all in-walls should be crossed to a subwoofer.

That said, a more limited bass response speaker can be successfully blended with a sub, so deep bass extension is not a *requirement* for an in-wall speaker. Clean extension to 60 Hz ought to be more than enough bass extension to make a decent blend with a good sub crossed at 80 Hz.

Craig

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post #7 of 36 Old 12-12-2007, 08:44 AM
 
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I'm a Sunfire dealer and can clear up your speaker grill question. They do come with speaker grills. The grills are paintable (like your typical in-wall).

In regards to Sunfires CS, I'm guessing that you got a secretary who was just trying to give you the best answer she, or whoever she asked could give. That product is so new to them (the in-walls just started shipping this month in VERY limited quantites as they trickle in from manufacturing) that I doubt many people in the home office have ever even heard them, much less seen them. But, I agree with you that their CS could be better.

If it makes you feel any better I, as a dealer mind you, called in to ask a question about the mounting of their new Duo speaker. I got a tech support guy who said he had no idea how they mounted and had never seen them in person. I think the product is just so new that they haven't fully introduced their entire staff to it yet, which I can understand.

So, to answer my question I called my territory manager and he had all the answers. Feel free to, as an end user, ask the manufacturer for the sales rep for your territory and they'll give you his/her number. The rep will be able to answer questions a little more practically (they usually have years of expereince representing many brands) as well as point you to the best dealer to talk to about auditioning.

Hope this helps!
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post #8 of 36 Old 12-12-2007, 08:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsylvaniaRON View Post

They don't come with an enclosed rear. Same goes for B&G. I'm old school. I just can't see backless designs sounding as good as enclosed designs. Regards...

Good thing we don't hear with our eyes, right?

Truth be told, a back box being REQUIRED for great sound out of an in-wall/in-ceiling is a complete myth. The company you mentioned, BG, is a perfect example of this. The best in-ceilings I've ever heard (and I've heard &/or installed nearly every one mentioned on these forums) are the open backed BG PD-6Ci & PD-8Ci. And it's not even close. In-wall wise, the BG's are right there at the top as well.

Just my opinion, but it could soon be yours: PM me & I'll send you a pair of the in-ceilings to try (No cost to you as long as you promise to send them back in a week or two). I live in OH so, assuming you're in PA you can have them by Mon or Tues.

Let me know!
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post #9 of 36 Old 12-12-2007, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by InTheIndustry View Post

Truth be told, a back box being REQUIRED for great sound out of an in-wall/in-ceiling is a complete myth.

Well, so much for having the credentials of being "in the industry" giving one credibility. Explain to me how a non-enclosed in-wall can be designed to factor in the variability of different wall constructions, not to mention the porous nature of drywall. Bass just can't be adequately reproduced by a speaker "enclosure" made of drywall and studs.

Even your industry agrees on this:
http://www.cepro.com/article/how_to_...peaker_systems

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Originally Posted by InTheIndustry View Post

The company you mentioned, BG, is a perfect example of this. The best in-ceilings I've ever heard (and I've heard &/or installed nearly every one mentioned on these forums) are the open backed BG PD-6Ci & PD-8Ci. And it's not even close. In-wall wise, the BG's are right there at the top as well.

Those speakers may have excellent midrange and treble response. However, they simply can't do an "excellent" job of reproducing bass and mid-bass with a drywall speaker enclosure. Put them in a "real" enclosure and I'll bet they could sound as good as a lot of other ribbon-based speakers.

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Originally Posted by InTheIndustry View Post

Just my opinion, but it could soon be yours: PM me & I'll send you a pair of the in-ceilings to try (No cost to you as long as you promise to send them back in a week or two). I live in OH so, assuming you're in PA you can have them by Mon or Tues.

I'll bite. I live in PA also. You have a PM, (and I promise to send them back in a week or two.)

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #10 of 36 Old 12-12-2007, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Gentlemen:

I think that in the case of speakers beauty is in the EARS of the beholder. I have to agree with Craig John about enclosures. To me this is the very minimal starting point with in-walls. There has to be a GOOD reason why companies like Triad and RBH have been using this design for years and now everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon.

I have over 40 speaker companies in my favorites list and have been to every website and invariably (not all) their best line of in-walls have an enclosure. Their cheaper line doesnt. I will be auditioning some Triad bronze in room (he doesnt have in walls) & atl. tech tomorrow. Next week I'll hear the KEF csi9000 ON walls (no IN-walls but almost identical) and the small sunfire crm2's. I am intrigued by the large sunfire CRW3's which are brand new to the industry and are being released before Christmas (so I heard).

To INTHEINDUSTRY thank you for the offer but I'll pass. If they were in-wall might take you up on it. but thanks again. I had a dealer call me today to confirm there are grills on the sunfire crw's but he said they're cloth. I have many reviews which say they are held on by magnets so they're most likely metal. I am just afraid of the ribbon tweeter sound (i'll hear it next week on the small sunfires) and the fact that sunfire is not a speaker company per se. I like the fact that KEF and TRIAD do one thing and one thing ONLY. They only make speakers..Regards

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post #11 of 36 Old 12-12-2007, 09:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsylvaniaRON View Post

Gentlemen:

I think that in the case of speakers beauty is in the EARS of the beholder. I have to agree with Craig John about enclosures. To me this is the very minimal starting point with in-walls. There has to be a GOOD reason why companies like Triad and RBH have been using this design for years and now everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon.

I have over 40 speaker companies in my favorites list and have been to every website and invariably (not all) their best line of in-walls have an enclosure. Their cheaper line doesnt. I will be auditioning some Triad bronze in room (he doesnt have in walls) & atl. tech tomorrow. Next week I'll hear the KEF csi9000 ON walls (no IN-walls but almost identical) and the small sunfire crm2's. I am intrigued by the large sunfire CRW3's which are brand new to the industry and are being released before Christmas (so I heard).

To INTHEINDUSTRY thank you for the offer but I'll pass. If they were in-wall might take you up on it. but thanks again. I had a dealer call me today to confirm there are grills on the sunfire crw's but he said they're cloth. I have many reviews which say they are held on by magnets so they're most likely metal. I am just afraid of the ribbon tweeter sound (i'll hear it next week on the small sunfires) and the fact that sunfire is not a speaker company per se. I like the fact that KEF and TRIAD do one thing and one thing ONLY. They only make speakers..Regards

Tell you what. I will send you a pair of BG PD-6i In-Walls for you to try if you promise to send them back.

Look, I'm NOT saying that back boxes themselves are "snake oil" or anything of the sort. I don't have anything against back boxed speakers and have heard many that have produced a fantastic sound. Some are great and some aren't. My big point is that a back box does not even begin to guarantee you a good sound. It's merely part of the design.

It's just not correct to speak in absolutes like "back boxes always sound best" (particularly when you have only been READING about speakers online and not hearing them for yourself) because it's NOT always true. I was only trying to offer you a different line of open minded thinking because in my experience I have found the above statement about back boxes to be incorrect on an ALWAYS basis. That's all.

I have NO vested interest (it's not like I'm forwarding this thread to some speaker company trying to get a commission) in what you decide to buy. The only reason I mentioned BG (which I am honestly sorry for because they aren't on your list of "interested in") is because of the whole back box comment which I thought might be limiting you in your possible choices. The reason I'm offering to send you or anyone else some to try is because this is obviously, in your case, a fun hobby that you have a passion for and I thought you might find it fun to try them since you said auditioning has been a challenge.
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post #12 of 36 Old 12-12-2007, 09:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Well, so much for having the credentials of being "in the industry" giving one credibility. Explain to me how a non-enclosed in-wall can be designed to factor in the variability of different wall constructions, not to mention the porous nature of drywall. Bass just can't be adequately reproduced by a speaker "enclosure" made of drywall and studs.

Even your industry agrees on this:
http://www.cepro.com/article/how_to_...peaker_systems


Those speakers may have excellent midrange and treble response. However, they simply can't do an "excellent" job of reproducing bass and mid-bass with a drywall speaker enclosure. Put them in a "real" enclosure and I'll bet they could sound as good as a lot of other ribbon-based speakers.


I'll bite. I live in PA also. You have a PM, (and I promise to send them back in a week or two.)

Craig

As far as only giving one example is concerned: When someone is speaking in absolutes like (paraphrasing) "backless designs can't sound as good as backed ones" I only have to give one example to prove it not true. There are many other examples where an un-backed speaker can produce a better sound than one with a back or a box (at modest price points, sub $1.5K). I just chose to name one. But, this isn't an absolute. It depends on who's listening and the application.

At higher dollar points with heavier speakers designed have high SPL then a back box is typically needed as is extra bracing &/or special installation requirements. But, in the OP's case these none of these speakers are going to shake a room or the sheet rock. The Sunfires play extremely loud, but do not go terribly deep from the stand point of needing special installation like, say the BG R-800 Radias @ $15,000 a pair.

As far as the bass response theory: You ever heard a Triad Bronze in wall? I have and can tell you that, boxed or not, bass is nearly non existent. Same with the Silvers. No real deep bass there either. They need a sub too.

I did receive your PM and your address and will send you the speakers tomorrow. Since you will be installing them in a drop ceiling (not great for any speaker boxed or not) I will pick up some drop ceiling brackets for you to use. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised even though they're going in a drop ceiling.

Hope you have fun listening (after all this is what it's all about, right?) and trying out something new. Hear from you soon!

PS I am really sorry if I derailed this thread and did not mean to take away from the OP's question about specific brands. All of the brands mentioned (except for one - personal opinion) make a really fine speaker that would fit the OP's needs quite well. It just comes down to taste.
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post #13 of 36 Old 12-12-2007, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsylvaniaRON View Post

Gentlemen:

I think that in the case of speakers beauty is in the EARS of the beholder. I have to agree with Craig John about enclosures. To me this is the very minimal starting point with in-walls. There has to be a GOOD reason why companies like Triad and RBH have been using this design for years and now everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon.

I have over 40 speaker companies in my favorites list and have been to every website and invariably (not all) their best line of in-walls have an enclosure. Their cheaper line doesnt. I will be auditioning some Triad bronze in room (he doesnt have in walls) & atl. tech tomorrow. Next week I'll hear the KEF csi9000 ON walls (no IN-walls but almost identical) and the small sunfire crm2's. I am intrigued by the large sunfire CRW3's which are brand new to the industry and are being released before Christmas (so I heard).

To INTHEINDUSTRY thank you for the offer but I'll pass. If they were in-wall might take you up on it. but thanks again. I had a dealer call me today to confirm there are grills on the sunfire crw's but he said they're cloth. I have many reviews which say they are held on by magnets so they're most likely metal. I am just afraid of the ribbon tweeter sound (i'll hear it next week on the small sunfires) and the fact that sunfire is not a speaker company per se. I like the fact that KEF and TRIAD do one thing and one thing ONLY. They only make speakers..Regards

What are you using the in-walls for- mains, side surrounds, rears? The reason I ask, most of the speakers you mention are dipole or bipole format. Just finished about a 3 week "study and demo" of most of the speakers you mention, and IMHO my decision was NOT to use dipole/bipole for SS (7.1 system). In my case, the SS will be the only in-walls used and they will be front firing.

Speakers are by far one the most subjective pieces of gear to buy, and as to the specs, I found out not to get too wound up with them. Sealed enclosures probable would more of a factor than anything.

"Unless you continually work, evolve and innovate, you'll learn a quick and painful lesson from someone who has"
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post #14 of 36 Old 12-12-2007, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What are you using the in-walls for- mains, side surrounds, rears? The reason I ask, most of the speakers you mention are dipole or bipole format. Just finished about a 3 week "study and demo" of most of the speakers you mention, and IMHO my decision was NOT to use dipole/bipole for SS (7.1 system). In my case, the SS will be the only in-walls used and they will be front firing.

Speakers are by far one the most subjective pieces of gear to buy, and as to the specs, I found out not to get too wound up with them. Sealed enclosures probable would more of a factor than anything.

Hi:
Initially I need 3 lcr speakers. I'll do surrounds later on. This will be in a 5.1 setup. I mainly watch dvds, then sports and rock music (the entire gamut) in a 17x20 room, 9ft ceilings with 14 ft cathedral, hardwood floor, no drapes, (2) 7ft narrow windows. There is no backwall. the room is entirely open to dinette and kitchen. running spkrs with 130watt pio elite.

here are 2 pics of my room (plz don't mind the mess, christmas gifts wrapping time): soon there will be a 60" plasma. those existing speakers are infinity infintessimals and you can see in the rear POLKS which for $170ea in 1994 sound great!




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post #15 of 36 Old 12-12-2007, 11:05 PM
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He,HE that looks just like my house

Funny you mentioned Polks. I was always under the impression that they where entry levelspeakers, but damn they sound good. Actually I have narrowed it down to 2 brands for my side channels- Polk RTS series or a special order VMPS 626jr. Both of these can be used for mains but I'm installing them as side channels. Luckily, I'm in the country, so no neighbors to p**s off.

Your room has a lot of hard surfaces, should make for a pretty lively room

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post #16 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 06:25 AM
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I'm interested in the Klipsch THX Ultra in-walls and getting a review from someone that has them or has heard them.
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post #17 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 06:46 AM
 
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In my humble opinion, the best in-walls in the world:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...n-Wall-Speaker

I've done two full 7.1 theaters with these and you would never in a million years guess that they weren't high-end, full range towers, which from a parts breakdown they pretty much are. I feel strongly enough about the quality and performance of these to say that you absolutely need to hear them before making any judgement about what an in-wall speaker is capable of. They are expensive, but if you need the speakers to "go away" yet don't want to give up even a little performance, it is one of the few options out there.
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post #18 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Lomax View Post

In my humble opinion, the best in-walls in the world:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...n-Wall-Speaker

I've done two full 7.1 theaters with these and you would never in a million years guess that they weren't high-end, full range towers, which from a parts breakdown they pretty much are. I feel strongly enough about the quality and performance of these to say that you absolutely need to hear them before making any judgement about what an in-wall speaker is capable of. They are expensive, but if you need the speakers to "go away" yet don't want to give up even a little performance, it is one of the few options out there.

Max:

I wouldn't doubt these puppies sound awesome. They better. they list for $2800ea. rec. pwr is 100-400watts. they weigh in at 44lbs. Comparing these to some (not all) of the others is like comparing mike tyson with the white guy he fought when he came out of prison! I need to stay in the $3000 range for 3 upfront speakers. You get me these for $1k apiece? Where do I sign? Regards...

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post #19 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Lomax View Post

In my humble opinion, the best in-walls in the world:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...n-Wall-Speaker

I've done two full 7.1 theaters with these and you would never in a million years guess that they weren't high-end, full range towers, which from a parts breakdown they pretty much are. I feel strongly enough about the quality and performance of these to say that you absolutely need to hear them before making any judgement about what an in-wall speaker is capable of. They are expensive, but if you need the speakers to "go away" yet don't want to give up even a little performance, it is one of the few options out there.

Wow! Those look nice but, they are way out of my price range as well.
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post #20 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 05:13 PM
 
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Tom I hope you get a reply as I will be installing these in January and have pretty high hopes. Would like to hear a review prior as well.
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post #21 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheIndustry View Post

As far as only giving one example is concerned: When someone is speaking in absolutes like (paraphrasing) "backless designs can't sound as good as backed ones" I only have to give one example to prove it not true. There are many other examples where an un-backed speaker can produce a better sound than one with a back or a box (at modest price points, sub $1.5K). I just chose to name one. But, this isn't an absolute. It depends on who's listening and the application.

There are three primary elements in speaker design; the drivers, the crossover and the enclosure. All three are essential to good speaker design. While trying not to speak in "absolutes", I will say that, even if you optimize the drivers and the crossover, it is much harder to design a speaker that can be guaranteed to sound good in any installation without knowing the height, width and depth of the enclosure, the materials the enclosure is constructed with and the amount of sealing and bracing it has.

A open-back in-wall speaker is almost always used in an installation with drywall and stud walls; sometimes with insulation in the wall, sometimes not; sometimes with drywall adhesive sealing the stud chamber, sometimes not; sometimes with dual layers of 5/8' drywall and green glue, sometimes single layer 3/8" or 1/2" drywall; sometimes the chamber is an interior wall, 3 1/2" deep and anywhere from 7 to 10' tall, sometimes it's an exterior wall 7 1/2" deep and 8' to 10' tall.

Given all this variability, you haven't explained how an open-back in-wall can possibly achieve good, high volume bass response without exciting the wall to vibrate, hum, buzz and distort the sound. It can happen, but only under the circumstance you describe:

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Originally Posted by InTheIndustry View Post

At higher dollar points with heavier speakers designed have high SPL then a back box is typically needed as is extra bracing &/or special installation requirements. But, in the OP's case these none of these speakers are going to shake a room or the sheet rock. The Sunfires play extremely loud, but do not go terribly deep from the stand point of needing special installation like, say the BG R-800 Radias @ $15,000 a pair.

The OP said he was checking out "rbh's, kef, klipsch ultra, sunfire xt, niles stagefronts and triads". All of these speakers are enclosed, so you are correct, they won't shake the room or the sheetrock. (I am asuuming the OP was talking about the enclosed KEF and RBH speakers and not their open-back's) Also, none of these speakers has anywhere close to "full-range" capability, and they should *all* be used with a subwoofer.

Now, if you were to install an open-back in-wall , such as the BG PD 8i, how would you keep the woofer's backwave from vibrating the drywall and the other structures in contact with the drywall? Also, they are - 6dB (half space) at 50 Hz. Certainly you would use them with a sub, correct?

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As far as the bass response theory: You ever heard a Triad Bronze in wall? I have and can tell you that, boxed or not, bass is nearly non existent. Same with the Silvers. No real deep bass there either. They need a sub too.

See above. Triad only claims 80 Hz LF extension for the Bronze, (70 for the Silver's), so it shouldn't surprise anyone that they have no "deep" bass. At least the bass they do have will be isolated from the wall and it will be predictable.

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Originally Posted by InTheIndustry View Post

I did receive your PM and your address and will send you the speakers tomorrow. Since you will be installing them in a drop ceiling (not great for any speaker boxed or not) I will pick up some drop ceiling brackets for you to use. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised even though they're going in a drop ceiling.

Hope you have fun listening (after all this is what it's all about, right?) and trying out something new. Hear from you soon!

PS I am really sorry if I derailed this thread and did not mean to take away from the OP's question about specific brands. All of the brands mentioned (except for one - personal opinion) make a really fine speaker that would fit the OP's needs quite well. It just comes down to taste.

I am looking forward to trialling the in-ceiling speakers. I will do my best to give them an unbiased audition. Thanks for providing the opportunity.

Craig

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post #22 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Max Lomax View Post

In my humble opinion, the best in-walls in the world:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...n-Wall-Speaker

I've done two full 7.1 theaters with these and you would never in a million years guess that they weren't high-end, full range towers, which from a parts breakdown they pretty much are. I feel strongly enough about the quality and performance of these to say that you absolutely need to hear them before making any judgement about what an in-wall speaker is capable of. They are expensive, but if you need the speakers to "go away" yet don't want to give up even a little performance, it is one of the few options out there.


That sure is a lot going on for it to fit in a typical stud cavity!!! You gotta love it

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post #23 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I have spoken to a number of people about in-walls. My salesman says he doesn't like Klipsch and he loves his floor standing KEFS. Then my audio furniture guy at Diamond Case in CA, who sells all types of speakers says he loves the RBH's best and doesn't like KEF.

Then there is a whole bunch of people in the biz who just don't like the sound of a ribbon tweeter like the Sunfire XT series. So there's no doubt that the best way to choose a speaker is by listening to it. However I have stated that in-wall auditioning in next to near impossible because of the installation snafu it creates. There just aren't that many in-wall installations around to audition. And a speaker that you audition in a showroom will sound differently in your home where it will be setup because of the different accoustic natures of the rooms. But you have to start somewhere!

Basically it comes down to this analogy. I kinda think its like comparing beautiful women. Once we get into say the $1000 per speaker in-wall thats defined as beautiful. So someone might look at kate moss and says she's dynomite while another person likes angelina jolie or pam anderson, etc etc etc. They are all beautiful but we have different tastes. You like blonde, I like brunette, next guy redhead. Its just all so subjective.

I would think it would be very unusual for a $1000 in-wall to sound downright BAD. From all the threads I've read on the forum there was only one reaql bad revue on the Triads. The installer thought that the bronze were not worth the money. Every other person loved Triads and recommended them (their 2 cents). I will hear some in-rooms next week, and some Kefs and sunfire. Lastly if my CA. connection can get me a decent deal on the RBH Reference 760's that may tip me in that direction unless the Triads, kef or sunfire blow me away. Regards...

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post #24 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsylvaniaRON View Post

I have spoken to a number of people about in-walls. My salesman says he doesn't like Klipsch and he loves his floor standing KEFS. Then my audio furniture guy at Diamond Case in CA, who sells all types of speakers says he loves the RBH's best and doesn't like KEF.

Then there is a whole bunch of people in the biz who just don't like the sound of a ribbon tweeter like the Sunfire XT series. So there's no doubt that the best way to choose a speaker is by listening to it. However I have stated that in-wall auditioning in next to near impossible because of the installation snafu it creates. There just aren't that many in-wall installations around to audition.

Basically it comes down to this analogy. I kinda think its like comparing beautiful women. Once we get into say the $1000 per speaker in-wall thats defined as beautiful. So someone might look at kate moss and says she's dynomite while another person likes angelina jolie or pam anderson, etc etc etc. They are all beautiful but we have different tastes. You like blonde, I like brunette, next guy redhead. Its just all so subjective.

I would think it would be very unusual for a $1000 in-wall to sound downright BAD. From all the threads I've read on the forum there was only one reaql bad revue on the Triads. The installer thought that the bronze were not worth the money. Every other person loved Triads and recommended them (their 2 cents). I will hear some in-rooms next week, and some Kefs and sunfire. Lastly if my CA. connection can get me a decent deal on the RBH Reference 760's that may tip me in that direction unless the Triads, kef or sunfire blow me away. Regards...

Your beautiful woman analogy doesn't relate just to in-walls. It relates to *all* speakers.

Craig

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Keep us posted on which woman won your heart

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post #26 of 36 Old 12-13-2007, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Keep us posted on which woman won your heart

I knew I was going to pay for that analogy! Regards...

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post #27 of 36 Old 12-14-2007, 06:20 AM
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Tom I hope you get a reply as I will be installing these in January and have pretty high hopes. Would like to hear a review prior as well.

Excellent! I look forward to your review.
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post #28 of 36 Old 12-21-2007, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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hi:

I'm the OP of this thread. I went to 6th av. elect. and auditioned some Kefs and sunfires. I also heard Triad bronze in room and some older atl. tech. inwalls at a diff. auth. dealer.

Hands down the KEF's sounded heads and shoulders better than all the others. I like the atl. tech. 2nd triad 3rd and sunfires last. The kef model is the kht9000 onwalls. all the systems had a sub. I heard the same exact music from the kefs and sunfires and the same exact source from the triads and atl. tech.

Now, the sunfires were the small crm2's w/ ribbon tweeters. for a small speaker they sounded nice but they retail for $1600/pr (not a small price). The kefs retail for $1000, the triads are $700ish and never got a price on the atl. tech. The kefs sounded like a large floor standing speaker with the sub. I disconnected the sub and there was of course a difference but they still held their own. Good bass, brilliant highs and good midrange. They were connected to a yamaha rv1700 avr. Between the kefs and sunfires it was like night and day.

In addition they are very good looking speakers. not boxy or rectangular. They curve like a 1/2 moon and are piano black which will go great with my kuro 150 plasma. they extend 5" from the wall also matching up nicely with the kuro wall mount. Regards...

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post #29 of 36 Old 12-26-2007, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Just came from dealer in LI, NY. I heard the Sunfire Ribbon Trio 3's. We played the end of the Abbey Road cd with no sub hooked up. While they sounded better than the smaller Sunfire crm2's they sounded similar. I was not impressed, let alone blown away. No bass extension at all. They have a very nice exterior finish on the cabinet but they are just regular rectangular speakers.

I believe in all aspects The Kefs sounded the best of all the speaker setup I heard the last 2 weeks. They also are a very very pretty speaker. Cha ching, I'll order these tomorrow. All thats left is my credenza! Regards...

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post #30 of 36 Old 12-26-2007, 10:22 PM
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Hey Ron,
Nothing better then after 2 weeks of driving all around christ's creation and finally being able to pull the trigger on YOUR choice of speakers. You gotta love it. Congrats on the choice, life is good! Actually, I'm a good 6 weeks into my perfect PJ hunt and there's still no light at the end of tunnel

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