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Speakers > Speakerquest (so far...)
cschang's Avatar cschang 03:42 PM 03-04-2008
When you get that low, the position the speakers are in is rarely a good place for the bass. So placement wise, what is good for imaging, mids, highs, is rarely good for the the lows.

For the lows, a different position of as little as a foot could make a huge difference in what is heard/felt. The room also can make a huge difference.

Yes...that is the argument for having a subwoofer.

Randybes's Avatar Randybes 03:49 PM 03-04-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

When you get that low, the position the speakers are in is rarely a good place for the bass. So placement wise, what is good for imaging, mids, highs, is rarely good for the the lows.

For the lows, a different position of as little as a foot could make a huge difference in what is heard/felt. The room also can make a huge difference.

Yes...that is the argument for having a subwoofer.

I agreee. Salks HT-3's go to a shade under 29 F-3 according to the web site, but I cross them over at 40 for home theater. I don't worry quite as much for music, but then again my room is well treated with bass traps and I equalize some, but I have flexibility to use the subs with stereo as well.

It is interesting because if you read old Stereophile magazines "before subs", floorstanders that went 20 Hz to 20kHZ were the holy grail (and very expensive). Still somewhat true today for 2 channel stereo audiophiles-of course Curtis those TAD speakers seemed just fine:-)
Warpdrv's Avatar Warpdrv 03:55 PM 03-04-2008
I also am in the same camp of utilizing a sub, if not multiples...

Its hard enough trying to get the Bass Response in a room right, EQ'ing and placement, without having to add speaker placement into the mix... to me they have become 2 seperate animals and are easier treated as such....

Obviously YMMV
cschang's Avatar cschang 03:56 PM 03-04-2008

If I could afford those TAD speakers, I would probably also have everything else I needed for bass as well.
Nuance's Avatar Nuance 04:30 PM 03-04-2008
Stop talking about those Tad speakers!!! It depresses me knowing I will never own them.

Hey Funk, since you liked the Song Tower's so much, why not check out the HT3's? Sure, they retail in the mid 4's, but you already experimented with the 5+ range, so why not? I wish someone in WI had a pair of HT3's for me to audition.
godawgs5's Avatar godawgs5 05:22 PM 03-04-2008
Holy crap, Brett Favre retired??? You gotta to be kidding me! I agree with Nuance and I'm from Seattle, NOOOOO!
Rayjr's Avatar Rayjr 05:43 PM 03-04-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

When you get that low, the position the speakers are in is rarely a good place for the bass. So placement wise, what is good for imaging, mids, highs, is rarely good for the the lows.

For the lows, a different position of as little as a foot could make a huge difference in what is heard/felt. The room also can make a huge difference.

Yes...that is the argument for having a subwoofer.

WOW...he was listening when Sanjay was talking

RayJr
cschang's Avatar cschang 05:58 PM 03-04-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

WOW...he was listening when Sanjay was talking

RayJr

Sanjay and I believe in the same thing when it comes to that stuff.
Dennis Murphy's Avatar Dennis Murphy 06:08 PM 03-04-2008
Thanks funkmonkey. Seems like an accurate review from my biased perspective. And I think your comments on the ST's bass extension are spot on. The response does start to roll off below 40 Hz, but they can produce a clean 38Hz if the program material has strong content in that region. Which I think is pretty respectable for a couple of 5" "woofers." As for brass, I always tune the crossover using brass material, since French Horns and trumpets are so rich in overtones around the crossover region. So I hope and think you would approve of their performance in that area. Dennis Murphy
funkmonkey's Avatar funkmonkey 06:48 PM 03-04-2008
Thanks for posting here Dennis. You designed a very nice speaker in the ST's. They really got me thinking... I am curious now about the V3's, are they your design as well? Jim sure is doing justice with his craftsmanship... No need to thank me, If I didn't like them I would have said as much.
Dennis Murphy's Avatar Dennis Murphy 06:54 PM 03-04-2008
Hi The V3 is my crossover design, as is the HT series (1,2,and 3). The HT3 has been Jim's best seller (and most expensive), and probably the model I would suggest as the biggest step up from the ST, particularly in bass and high frequency extension.
funkmonkey's Avatar funkmonkey 06:57 PM 03-04-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Stop talking about those Tad speakers!!! It depresses me knowing I will never own them.

Hey Funk, since you liked the Song Tower's so much, why not check out the HT3's? Sure, they retail in the mid 4's, but you already experimented with the 5+ range, so why not? I wish someone in WI had a pair of HT3's for me to audition.

My experimenting in the 5k range was really to give me an idea of what I could get for that amount of money, thinking I would look for something used which would put me back under 3. But, damn they sound good up there! The HT3's are very interesting to me as well, and I may pursue a listen. Or start looking at subs a bit earlier than I had planned....
funkmonkey's Avatar funkmonkey 07:31 PM 03-04-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

To the "Man with the Funk" - Nice visitation on the Sierra's and Song Towers...

first off, thanks Warp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Thanks also to Curtis and David for allowing this miscreant into your homes to abuse your hospitality and audio equipment...

second, I took a shower at least... though I did eat a huge pile of garlic the night before I went to Curtis' house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Yeah, when is that going to happen?!...
...So if you had to pick winner in each price range what would they currently be? $2K, $3K, $5K?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Sounds like you guys had a good time...
I'm also with HiFi here, wondering where your musical palette is directing you... Would you still entertain the used genre...?

I know I did... not quite sure where I am headed at the moment, but I can say that if I were to cap my budget at $2K I would get the SongTowers, and start looking for electronics and a good musical sub... $3K used Aerials... $5K T+A TS-300. (at least for now)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

What other speakers are on your list to audition...

Acoustic Zen Adagio's and Adagio Jr., Monitor Audio Gold Series. Though I am kind of fascinated by the transmission line bass designs. Both of those designs that I have heard lend a little more "live" sound to acoustic/hollow body instruments, that I like (in the T+A's the acoustic bass was very real sounding).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Are your current speakers really "digital ready"?

LOL... I'll bet they're more "digital ready" than yours, bud!
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson 07:33 PM 03-04-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Sanjay and I believe in the same thing when it comes to that stuff.

Many of us do, too.
Nuance's Avatar Nuance 07:14 AM 03-05-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

When you get that low, the position the speakers are in is rarely a good place for the bass. So placement wise, what is good for imaging, mids, highs, is rarely good for the the lows.

For the lows, a different position of as little as a foot could make a huge difference in what is heard/felt. The room also can make a huge difference.

Yes...that is the argument for having a subwoofer.

So true!

So in other words you are saying a subwoofer is a good thing, especially with music? Waaa? I just don't understand why.

J/K LOL!
Boybees's Avatar Boybees 12:05 PM 03-05-2008
Hey Everyone, I’m the guy who hosted Greg (aka funkmonkey) for his SongTowers audition. Despite what you may have heard , Greg is a gentleman and you should have no hesitation in admitting him to your home if he wants to hear your speakers.

Greg has performed a great service to this community by posting his notes on the many speakers he’s listened to. It’s rare to see a comparison done through a single pair of ears by someone who is thorough and careful in his methods. Greg’s appraisal of the SongTowers was quite fair and unbiased. You can believe what Greg says, IMO.

Me on the other hand: you probably don’t want to listen to me because I’m unabashedly biased in favor of the speakers I already own: the SongTowers are an incredible value! If you are in the mood for some blatant SongTower homerism, check out my own write-up on the Salk Forum. (I'll post a link later).

A couple of minor factual corrections to Greg’s review. My son is 9, actually . My digital source is a Slim Devices Squeezebox 3 modified by Vinnie Rossi of Red Wine Audio. The modifications include upgrading of the internal circuitry, capacitors, and op amps, and the addition of a battery power supply. The SB3 plays lossless audio files which are streamed wirelessly from a hard drive in my bedroom.

Greg, good luck on your continuing quest, and I’ll look forward to finding out your final choice.
Boybees's Avatar Boybees 12:06 PM 03-05-2008
Quick post to get to three so I can post the link
Boybees's Avatar Boybees 12:06 PM 03-05-2008
And another.
Boybees's Avatar Boybees 12:07 PM 03-05-2008
Here's the link to my SongTowers write-up:

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...?topic=49037.0
cschang's Avatar cschang 12:21 PM 03-05-2008
Boybees....welcome!

You do realize that being one of the only, if not the only Song Tower owners in the LA area, you might get a lot of PM's for auditions.

I am a fan of Jim Salk's work, and I have not even heard his offerings, but because of people's opnions that I trust.
mziegler's Avatar mziegler 03:09 PM 03-05-2008
^^^^^
What he said.
Nuance's Avatar Nuance 04:22 PM 03-05-2008
Curtis, I'd love for you to hear a pair so I can read the lengthy review you'd post. Yes, I admit I value your opinion greatly (not a joke).
cschang's Avatar cschang 06:21 PM 03-05-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Curtis, I'd love for you to hear a pair so I can read the lengthy review you'd post. Yes, I admit I value your opinion greatly (not a joke).

Thanks.....hopefully one of these days. But like Funk pointed out, it took he and I three weeks to find mutually agreeable time for him to visit me and my Sierras. I have been so busy....it is crazy.
funkmonkey's Avatar funkmonkey 01:20 PM 03-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boybees View Post

Hey Everyone, I'm the guy who hosted Greg (aka funkmonkey) for his SongTowers audition. Despite what you may have heard , Greg is a gentleman and you should have no hesitation in admitting him to your home if he wants to hear your speakers.

Greg has performed a great service to this community by posting his notes on the many speakers he's listened to. It's rare to see a comparison done through a single pair of ears by someone who is thorough and careful in his methods. Greg's appraisal of the SongTowers was quite fair and unbiased. You can believe what Greg says, IMO.

Me on the other hand: you probably don't want to listen to me because I'm unabashedly biased in favor of the speakers I already own: the SongTowers are an incredible value! If you are in the mood for some blatant SongTower homerism, check out my own write-up on the Salk Forum. (I'll post a link later).

A couple of minor factual corrections to Greg's review. My son is 9, actually . My digital source is a Slim Devices Squeezebox 3 modified by Vinnie Rossi of Red Wine Audio. The modifications include upgrading of the internal circuitry, capacitors, and op amps, and the addition of a battery power supply. The SB3 plays lossless audio files which are streamed wirelessly from a hard drive in my bedroom.

Greg, good luck on your continuing quest, and I'll look forward to finding out your final choice.

David,
Thanks again for letting me into your home, and thank you for the kind words about my character. I corrected your sons age (My wife and I don't have any kids yet, so I am an exceptionaly poor judge of age). I hope that neither you or your young audiophile was offended by my bad guess . Also, I added your post regarding set-up as an edit to my original post. I hope that you get many years of enjoyment out of your excellent speakers.
Cheers,
Greg
deneb's Avatar deneb 01:48 PM 03-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boybees View Post

Here's the link to my SongTowers write-up:

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...?topic=49037.0

Well done on that write up! Between your audiocircle thread, this one, and Nuance's (I'm sure I"ve left out some others as well); it's great to have such awesome posts about the speakers you guys have auditioned. You guys have really set the bar.
Nuance's Avatar Nuance 02:57 PM 03-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boybees View Post

Here's the link to my SongTowers write-up:

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...?topic=49037.0

Wow! That's better than the reviews I read in home theater magazines (and with no bias as well). You are gifted!
ahmed's Avatar ahmed 03:41 PM 03-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post

My experimenting in the 5k range was really to give me an idea of what I could get for that amount of money, thinking I would look for something used which would put me back under 3. But, damn they sound good up there! The HT3's are very interesting to me as well, and I may pursue a listen. Or start looking at subs a bit earlier than I had planned....

You owe it to yourself to give HT3 a listen. I went to Jim Salk's place on tuesday and was blwon away by the quality of HT3s. They sounded as good as anything I have heard before including systems several orders of magnitude more expensive. The pleasure of discussing the logic behind design decisions and an understanding of reasoning behind every choice was priceless as well.
Nuance's Avatar Nuance 04:58 PM 03-06-2008
^ I really want to hear them too!
funkmonkey's Avatar funkmonkey 05:23 PM 03-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmed View Post

You owe it to yourself to give HT3 a listen. I went to Jim Salk's place on tuesday and was blwon away by the quality of HT3s. They sounded as good as anything I have heard before including systems several orders of magnitude more expensive. The pleasure of discussing the logic behind design decisions and an understanding of reasoning behind every choice was priceless as well.

Jim sent me an e-mail yesterday saying that he was going to try and hook me up with somebody local so I could hear the HT3's. If for nothing else other than contributing to my education... I am a little afraid though, because I am sure I will love them. From what he has said they are the speaker that he designed for himself, and his wants were very similar to mine...
cschang's Avatar cschang 12:10 AM 03-07-2008
Funk....are you venturing into the above $5K territory?

If so, I would suggest a listen to the Pioneer EX series of speakers, in particular, the S-3EX. I believe they retail at $6K/pr.

I have heard the S-1EX, which is $9K/pr and thought they were excellent.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...rs/EX-Speakers

They are directly related to the TAD speakers.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...rence+One.Kuro
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