NHT power5 amp, Givin it some lovin - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 584 Old 03-16-2008, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by rmilesh View Post

Glad to see the NHT electronics getting some love. Ive had my controller/power 5 combo for about a month and have had similar issues with a humming noise. Im going to try the cheater tonite to see if that works. Im running mine through an NHT classic 4 based 5.0 system and love the results in movies and music for the most part. The one area Id like to improve on is the midrange richness/warmth. I also have the power2 and am considering adding a second zone with it. Does anyone have any suggestions for small floorstanders or bookshelf speakers that would produce a nice warm sound to contrast with my Nht classic sound? Id like to keep the price under 1500 and dont mind used.

thanks

Same here...I thought the the C4+P5 combo sounded a little edgy on the top end so I p/u an X2 crossover and added a Monarchy Audio SM70-Pro 2x20wpc class A amp to handle to mid+upper duties and am now VERY satisfied with the overall sound. The P5 powers the 10" woofers and does it very well.
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post #62 of 584 Old 03-16-2008, 09:13 AM
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What are people doing for 7.1 systems who have bought the Power 5? Are you using your receiver’s SB amps or did you go with a Power 2? I ask, because I have a 7.1 system, but my surround backs can easily be driven off my Denon 3808’s SB amps. But, seeing how NHT is dumping these amps, and I tend to go through electronics like socks, I’d rather have a matching set of amps for a 7.1 system when I go with a different Pre/Pro.

Considering this, and using the P5 / P2 combination, would it be preferable to run the R / L towers off the P2?

As a side note, I’m curious why NHT opted to not include balanced inputs?
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post #63 of 584 Old 03-16-2008, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mdrew View Post

What are people doing for 7.1 systems who have bought the Power 5? Are you using your receiver's SB amps or did you go with a Power 2? I ask, because I have a 7.1 system, but my surround backs can easily be driven off my Denon 3808's SB amps. But, seeing how NHT is dumping these amps, and I tend to go through electronics like socks, I'd rather have a matching set of amps for a 7.1 system when I go with a different Pre/Pro.

Considering this, and using the P5 / P2 combination, would it be preferable to run the R / L towers off the P2?

As a side note, I'm curious why NHT opted to not include balanced inputs?

mdrew,

I have a 5.1 system so the Power 5 is all I need. But I would think you would be fine having the SB powered of the 3808. I have the 805 and if I did go to a 7.1 system I would use the 805s SB amps.

Although at $700. for the Power 2 it is a great amp at an incredible price. And as you mention if you went to a dedicated pre-pro you would then need to pickup a 2 channel amp. In my current rack I would not have the room for the Power 2 so it would not be a option for me.

If I had the Power 5/2 combo I would do as you suggest and use the Power 2 for the front R&L channels and the Power 5 for the other channels. A good question as to why NHT did not include balanced inputs/outputs on the Controller or Power5/2. Maybe Jack Hidley could comment on that question.

Bill


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post #64 of 584 Old 03-16-2008, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

mdrew,

I have a 5.1 system so the Power 5 is all I need. But I would think you would be fine having the SB powered of the 3808. I have the 805 and if I did go to a 7.1 system I would use the 805s SB amps.

Although at $700. for the Power 2 it is a great amp at an incredible price. And as you mention if you went to a dedicated pre-pro you would then need to pickup a 2 channel amp. In my current rack I would not have the room for the Power 2 so it would not be a option for me.

If I had the Power 5/2 combo I would do as you suggest and use the Power 2 for the front R&L channels and the Power 5 for the other channels. A good question as to why NHT did not include balanced inputs/outputs on the Controller or Power5/2. Maybe Jack Hidley could comment on that question.

Bill

Regarding balanced, I think these were primarily designed to be used together with the controller. I am sure someone can mod these for XLR since the amp modules have headers for true balanced operation on the boards.
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post #65 of 584 Old 03-16-2008, 01:01 PM
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"I’m curious why NHT opted to not include balanced inputs?"

Because for most it would add cost w/o benefit.

Most don't have pre/pro's w/balanced outputs, and even the ones who do are unlikely to see any benefit given the short cable runs typical for home use.

Noah
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post #66 of 584 Old 03-16-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"I’m curious why NHT opted to not include balanced inputs?"

Because for most it would add cost w/o benefit.

Most don't have pre/pro's w/balanced outputs, and even the ones who do are unlikely to see any benefit given the short cable runs typical for home use.

Noah,

I agree that cost was most likely the reason that the NHTs do not have balanced inputs/outputs. But I would believe that many with dedicated pre-pros in the mid to upper price range have balanced outputs. Anthem, Bryston, Cary, Emotiva, Integra, Lexicon and Parasound come to mind.

When I had the AVM 30 with my current amp the Parasound A52 I used the balanced inputs/outputs. When I went to a Onkyo 805 as a pre-pro I found I had a ground loop issue. It was caused by my cable TV feed and I installed a isolation transformer to eliminate it. So there might not be much benefit sonically with balanced connections. But for hum/noise reduction balanced connections are very beneficial IMO. I also think many including myself would gladly pay extra to have balanced inputs/outputs included in their amps and pre-pros.

Bill


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post #67 of 584 Old 03-16-2008, 09:01 PM
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Ive been playing with my speaker cables this weekend and came up with a winning combo. I bought standard 12 gauge stranded hook up wire from radio shack to wire the LF posts on my Classic 4's. For the HF posts Ive used audioquest type 4's, which are solid copper.

This has changed the sound so that now I dont think Im going to need a second set of speakers to get the desired sound from music.

I never realized speaker wire could have such a big influence on sound.
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post #68 of 584 Old 03-17-2008, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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What are people doing for 7.1 systems who have bought the Power 5? Are you using your receiver’s SB amps or did you go with a Power 2? I ask, because I have a 7.1 system, but my surround backs can easily be driven off my Denon 3808’s SB amps. But, seeing how NHT is dumping these amps, and I tend to go through electronics like socks, I’d rather have a matching set of amps for a 7.1 system when I go with a different Pre/Pro.


Id love to get the power2 to go along with the power5 but money is to tight right now. Im currently using the H/K 745 to power my back two speakers. But even if I do go to a dedicated pre-pro I probably couldnt justify ( to myself ) getting the power2 ...Id probably just get a cheap 100 watt x 2 amp to power the back two as the power5 is doing a great job in its current configuration.

I cant stress enough how loud I can listen at now as compared to prior to the power5 installation ..I still havent really found the breaking point , I keep cranking it up more and more with seemingly no ill effects on the sound or ear discomfort ( which Im very sensitive to, My ears will start ringing with certain speaker and amp types telling me to turn it down ) ...It just doesnt seem like its loud untill you try and talk to somebody sitting next to you, and you have to holler at them to get them to hear you
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post #69 of 584 Old 03-17-2008, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by rmilesh View Post

Ive been playing with my speaker cables this weekend and came up with a winning combo. I bought standard 12 gauge stranded hook up wire from radio shack to wire the LF posts on my Classic 4's. For the HF posts Ive used audioquest type 4's, which are solid copper.

This has changed the sound so that now I dont think Im going to need a second set of speakers to get the desired sound from music.

I never realized speaker wire could have such a big influence on sound.

Very nice. I ordered the 10 gauge Belden 5000 series speaker cables for lp, hp, center and surrounds. I was using Monster xp 16 gauge for hp and DH Labs double run T-14 for lp. The T-14 was an 8 ft pair and too long. Im anxious to hook up the new cables.

Regards,
Ricky
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post #70 of 584 Old 03-17-2008, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by rchcah View Post

Same here...I thought the the C4+P5 combo sounded a little edgy on the top end so I p/u an X2 crossover and added a Monarchy Audio SM70-Pro 2x20wpc class A amp to handle to mid+upper duties and am now VERY satisfied with the overall sound. The P5 powers the 10" woofers and does it very well.

What are you using as a pre/pro?
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post #71 of 584 Old 03-17-2008, 01:21 PM
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Im using the Controller...its a nice pre just wish, as others have mentioned, that it allowed mpcm thru hdmi.

Regards,
Ricky
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post #72 of 584 Old 03-17-2008, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

Id love to get the power2 to go along with the power5 but money is to tight right now. Im currently using the H/K 745 to power my back two speakers. But even if I do go to a dedicated pre-pro I probably couldnt justify ( to myself ) getting the power2 ...Id probably just get a cheap 100 watt x 2 amp to power the back two as the power5 is doing a great job in its current configuration.

I cant stress enough how loud I can listen at now as compared to prior to the power5 installation ..I still havent really found the breaking point , I keep cranking it up more and more with seemingly no ill effects on the sound or ear discomfort ( which Im very sensitive to, My ears will start ringing with certain speaker and amp types telling me to turn it down ) ...It just doesnt seem like its loud untill you try and talk to somebody sitting next to you, and you have to holler at them to get them to hear you

I know the ICEpower amps are reported to run cool but what is your actual experience with the NHT power5 at the high levels that you are running it? I've ordered the pwr5 and pwr2 for my 7.2 system but I'm short on rack space. Do you think that if I put a 1.5 or 2" spacer between the two I could safetly stack them?
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post #73 of 584 Old 03-17-2008, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I know the ICEpower amps are reported to run cool but what is your actual experience with the NHT power5 at the high levels that you are running it? I've ordered the pwr5 and pwr2 for my 7.2 system but I'm short on rack space. Do you think that if I put a 1.5 or 2" spacer between the two I could safetly stack them?

I think you could get by with 2 inch spacers ... The power5 gets luke warm at best, warms up to where I can feel it but thats about it ..maybe like a dvd player or sat box Id say
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post #74 of 584 Old 03-17-2008, 05:46 PM
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I posted a bunch of incorrect information above. I've tried to correct it all. See posts #12 and #20 above. They are significantly revised.

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post #75 of 584 Old 03-17-2008, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The channels are 1 = L, 2 = LS, 3 = C, 4 = RS, 5 = R on the Power5.

The Power2 uses one 500ASP and TWO 500As. The amplifier channel on the 500ASP does nothing. This way both channels have absolutely identical behavior since they use exactly the same amplifier module.

It doesn't really make sense to specify a current draw for a power amplifier given the dynamic nature of music. If all five channels were amplifying sine waves at full power, the current draw would be around 20A. At a normal listening level, the current draw is going to be around 2A. The easiest way to know if you need a higher current AC circuit for the amplifier is to monitor the AC voltage when the system is playing back at your maximum playback level. If the voltage drops below 105VAC, I would consider it. If you don't have an analog voltmeter or a DVM with a bargraph, plug a small lamp into the same circuit. See if it dims much.

Interesting, I would have thought it would be cheaper to just have two 500ASP modules in the Power2 instead of the two additional 500As.

Are the NHTBus specs available anywhere? I would love to control my Power5 over the ethernet from a laptop
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post #76 of 584 Old 03-18-2008, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Just checked the schematic. The DC supplies from both of the 500ASPs are tied together through some isolation diodes. Then all three of the 500As are tied to this rail. The bottom line is the power supply rail is shared by all five amplifier channels equally.

Thanks Jack for the clarification.
In this configuration it seems this provides some kind of "power steering" ..if one channel needed extra power ( say for an explosion ) it would be able to resourse power from both of the asp power supplies, is this correct ?
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post #77 of 584 Old 03-18-2008, 11:19 AM
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Just curious if anyone who has these amps have compared to an ATI. I have the 3007 and would like to know (other than the huge weight difference) whether going with these would be a sonic step up. I am using Salks all around which I think I would consider a moderate to slightly difficult load.
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post #78 of 584 Old 03-18-2008, 11:54 AM
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There doesn't even need to be any power steering going on. Or rather, it is completely automatic. If a channel needs more power it simply takes it. If no more is available, then the power supply voltage just drops (sags).

The communication protocol for the NHT bus isn't public information.

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post #79 of 584 Old 03-18-2008, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

mdrew,

If I had the Power 5/2 combo I would do as you suggest and use the Power 2 for the front R&L channels and the Power 5 for the other channels. A good question as to why NHT did not include balanced inputs/outputs on the Controller or Power5/2. Maybe Jack Hidley could comment on that question.

Bill

An FYI.

I just spoke with Bruce at Listenup and asked him this same question. He told me to run the mains of the #1 and #5 channels of the Power5 rather than off the Power2 and that I should run the surround backs off the Power2. I don't recall his exact words, so I won't try to quote him. He gave me the impression that the Power5 1/5 channel moduals were a better choice for driving the mains. I was pleasantly surprised, seeing how was ready to buy both units and he effective talked me out of it. Ya, I ordered a Power5. I've never really bought into the theory that amplification could improve sound quality at moderate volumes, so this will be interesting to see if the Power5 does anything.
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post #80 of 584 Old 03-18-2008, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mdrew View Post

An FYI….

I just spoke with Bruce at Listenup and asked him this same question. He told me to run the mains of the #1 and #5 channels of the Power5 rather than off the Power2 and that I should run the surround backs off the Power2. I don’t recall his exact words, so I won’t try to quote him. He gave me the impression that the Power5 1/5 channel moduals were a better choice for driving the mains. I was pleasantly surprised, seeing how was ready to buy both units and he effective talked me out of it. Ya, I ordered a Power5. I’ve never really bought into the theory that amplification could improve sound quality at moderate volumes, so this will be interesting to see if the Power5 does anything.

I am in the same position, but I went ahead and bought both the 5 and 2. I will be interested if I hear a difference. That being said, I like the lighter wt and cooler running. Even if I do hear a difference, I would have to say it would not be definitive unless it was DBT, but heck I don't mind fooling myself if the price is fairly reasonable.
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post #81 of 584 Old 03-18-2008, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mdrew View Post

An FYI.

I just spoke with Bruce at Listenup and asked him this same question. He told me to run the mains of the #1 and #5 channels of the Power5 rather than off the Power2 and that I should run the surround backs off the Power2. I don't recall his exact words, so I won't try to quote him. He gave me the impression that the Power5 1/5 channel moduals were a better choice for driving the mains. I was pleasantly surprised, seeing how was ready to buy both units and he effective talked me out of it. Ya, I ordered a Power5. I've never really bought into the theory that amplification could improve sound quality at moderate volumes, so this will be interesting to see if the Power5 does anything.

mdrew,

Thanks for that information. Its nice that Bruce took the time to explain the best way to run the Power 5. I just checked my FedEx tracking number and the Power 5 will arrive tomorrow, a day early! They deliver in the morning so I should have it up and running by high noon.

Bill


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post #82 of 584 Old 03-18-2008, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randybes View Post

Just curious if anyone who has these amps have compared to an ATI. I have the 3007 and would like to know (other than the huge weight difference) whether going with these would be a sonic step up. I am using Salks all around which I think I would consider a moderate to slightly difficult load.

Randy,

I see your 3007 on a-gon. If the Power 5 sounds as good as I think it will my A52 will be joining your 3007 on a-gon as well. The weight difference is not that much over the A52 (50lbs.) but the depth of the Power 5 will be easier to manage in my rack.

Bill


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post #83 of 584 Old 03-19-2008, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Just curious if anyone who has these amps have compared to an ATI. I have the 3007 and would like to know (other than the huge weight difference) whether going with these would be a sonic step up. I am using Salks all around which I think I would consider a moderate to slightly difficult load.

I see you are letting some Aerial LR3's go ..I assume youve replaced them with Salk, Man those Salks must be great speakers because the LR3's are some of my favorite speakers ( Aerials in general ) but they are hard as heck to power, even harder then NHT..
Is the ATI not a good match for the Salks, or are you thinking 300 watts is now overkill ? or is it the size of the power5 ot something else
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post #84 of 584 Old 03-19-2008, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Randy,

I see your 3007 on a-gon. If the Power 5 sounds as good as I think it will my A52 will be joining your 3007 on a-gon as well. The weight difference is not that much over the A52 (50lbs.) but the depth of the Power 5 will be easier to manage in my rack.

Bill

Yep, you are right. Replacing the 3007. Hernia time comes early this spring
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Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

I see you are letting some Aerial LR3's go ..I assume youve replaced them with Salk, Man those Salks must be great speakers because the LR3's are some of my favorite speakers ( Aerials in general ) but they are hard as heck to power, even harder then NHT..
Is the ATI not a good match for the Salks, or are you thinking 300 watts is now overkill ? or is it the size of the power5 ot something else

I have had Salks quite awhile. I like the Aerials (which were bought from a local AV dealer friend), but the Salks are better. Of course, yesterday, I was taking pictures of the Aerials and took some finish off a corner. I have taken the ad off until I can check and make sure they are sonically ok, and then relist at a lower price (darn it).

The 3007 is a good match for the Salks although it may be a little overkill for 7 channels (as the center and surrounds are two way HT-1s). It is partly the size and weight of the power 5 (plus the 2). The 3007 is a great amp though, but it is very heavy. I still have a 3006 that I use in an active configuration with a DEQX for 2 channel listening.
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post #86 of 584 Old 03-19-2008, 09:24 AM
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Got the Power 5 setup. I met the FedEx driver this morning after I was told it would be late afternoon, I could not wait. Fortunately I have no hum or any noise at all, the amp is dead quiet. Listened to my favorite demo disc which is Mark Knofler's Golden Heart (using the Pure Mode with the 805).

I found the imaging and depth to be improved over the A52 but bass seemed off and vocals were not centered as before. Well wouldn't know that in the rush and excitement to get the Power 5 up and running I had the R front speaker leads crossed! So I was enjoying Mark Knofler out of phase. I corrected my blunder but by then I was on to Diana Krall's Girl In Another Room. Things got a lot better bass was much improved (duh) and vocals were dead center.

I will get much more time tomorrow to play more music and some Bluray/HD-DVDs. But so far I am very pleased with my brief listening session and the top of the Power 5 was not even warm after about 45 minutes of fairly loud music. For $1199.00 shipped I think anyone considering an ICE powered amp should get one while they last!

Bill


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #87 of 584 Old 03-19-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Got the Power 5 setup. I met the FedEx driver this morning after I was told it would be late afternoon, I could not wait. Fortunately I have no hum or any noise at all, the amp is dead quiet. Listened to my favorite demo disc which is Mark Knofler's Golden Heart (using the Pure Mode with the 805).

I found the imaging and depth to be improved over the A52 but bass seemed off and vocals were not centered as before. Well wouldn't know that in the rush and excitement to get the Power 5 up and running I had the R front speaker leads crossed! So I was enjoying Mark Knofler out of phase. I corrected my blunder but by then I was on to Diana Krall's Girl In Another Room. Things got a lot better bass was much improved (duh) and vocals were dead center.

I will get much more time tomorrow to play more music and some Bluray/HD-DVDs. But so far I am very pleased with my brief listening session and the top of the Power 5 was not even warm after about 45 minutes of fairly loud music. For $1199.00 shipped I think anyone considering an ICE powered amp should get one while they last!

Bill

Nice review I'm torn between this and really upping the anty to the D-Sonic Magmum 2000-5. I'm curious to hear Icepower amps but don't want the bug for more power in 6 months.
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post #88 of 584 Old 03-19-2008, 11:21 AM
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Here are a couple of shots of my front end. I think im done w/electronic swapping for awhile...
btw, this is a fp system...the screen is retracted in the photos.
Regards,
Ricky
LL
LL
LL
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post #89 of 584 Old 03-19-2008, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I found the imaging and depth to be improved over the A52 but bass seemed off and vocals were not centered as before. Well wouldn't know that in the rush and excitement to get the Power 5 up and running I had the R front speaker leads crossed! So I was enjoying Mark Knofler out of phase. I corrected my blunder but by then I was on to Diana Krall's Girl In Another Room. Things got a lot better bass was much improved (duh) and vocals were dead center.

I will get much more time tomorrow to play more music and some Bluray/HD-DVDs. But so far I am very pleased with my brief listening session and the top of the Power 5 was not even warm after about 45 minutes of fairly loud music. For $1199.00 shipped I think anyone considering an ICE powered amp should get one while they last!

Bill

I was thinking of a used A52, or a ICEpower amp. So your feeling is that the ICEpower has better AQ than your A52?
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post #90 of 584 Old 03-19-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yngdiego View Post

I was thinking of a used A52, or a ICEpower amp. So your feeling is that the ICEpower has better AQ than your A52?

yngdiego,

With my limited listening today I really would like wait to comment further till I can spend some more time listening to the Power 5. But with limited listening I feel the SQ will most likely be better than the A52. Tomorrow I will have the house to myself for 3-4 hours so I can play some CDs that I am very familiar with. I will also play some movies in TrueHD and DTS-MA to get a feel for the SQ with movies as well.

I strongly feel that if you or anyone else is interested in a ICE powered amp to grab a Power 5 before they are gone. At $1200.00 delivered it is a great chance to listen to a ICE powered amp. If by chance you do not like the Power 5 I believe return shipping to ListenUp is free as well (not a 100% sure though).

Bill


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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