NHT power5 amp, Givin it some lovin - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 584 Old 03-12-2008, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I just recieved my NHT power5 2 days ago from Listenup,( 200 watts x 5 @ 8 ohms B&O ICEpower amp ). Ive never had an Icepower amp before so I cant compare it to another Icepower amp, but I have had almost every class a/b amp around...Let me just say I wouldnt trade the power5 for any of em. In a word, I love it. The sound is crystal clear, boatloads of power, havent been able to get it to distort or breakup or sound harsh at insane levels ( I have NHT m6's which arent easy to drive either ). Runs cool and only weighs 36 lbs and is small in size. Great looks with glass sensored buttons, you can turn off 3 amps if your just running two channels. Its a keeper. Using it in conjunction with a H/K 745 reciever which for a reciever has some excellant internal amps, the power5 is a marked improvement (even at lower levels ) over the 745's internal amps. Even center channel dialog has improved. If I had to compare it sonically to a class a/b amp I would compare it to the Citation 7.1's I had a couple of years ago. Absolutely no sonic signature of its own and when your listening at insane levels it doesnt seem loud at all ..Crank it up baby

This amp will not warm up , cool down or change the sonic signature of your speakers or electronics in any way imo ..so its very dependent on whats in front of it ..So if your looking to add some flavor/twist/warmth or whatever to your setup..this aint gonna do that.
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post #2 of 584 Old 03-12-2008, 06:59 PM
 
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Class D amps are the future, the only proplem right now is that "audiophiles" look down on them because it is a newer technology, in the same way tube only people look down on SS.
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post #3 of 584 Old 03-12-2008, 07:31 PM
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These are discontinued by NHT, right? NHT still honors the 3 year warranty, I take it? By chance, does anyone know which Icepower series these use?
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post #4 of 584 Old 03-12-2008, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mather View Post

These are discontinued by NHT, right? NHT still honors the 3 year warranty, I take it? By chance, does anyone know which Icepower series these use?

I heard that it uses the A series modules without the built in power supply (like what the asp modules have). I have no idea who makes the power supply (possibly Vinci labs designed it) and whether it is an SMPS or a transformer. When I get hold of mine I will pop the lid off and take some pics. Likely it has 500A module as seen in http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com...eaker/A_SERIES


Shame that the matching processor does not support multichannel LPCM over HDMI otherwise it would be a killer combo

Great to hear that you can turn off amps that are not in use. I originally thought that this feature was only availble through the ethernet port and when hooked up to the controller.
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post #5 of 584 Old 03-12-2008, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

I just recieved my NHT power5 2 days ago from Listenup,( 200 watts x 5 @ 8 ohms B&O ICEpower amp ). Ive never had an Icepower amp before so I cant compare it to another Icepower amp, but I have had almost every class a/b amp around...Let me just say I wouldnt trade the power5 for any of em. In a word, I love it. The sound is crystal clear, boatloads of power, havent been able to get it to distort or breakup or sound harsh at insane levels ( I have NHT m6's which arent easy to drive either ). Runs cool and only weighs 36 lbs and is small in size. Great looks with glass sensored buttons, you can turn off 3 amps if your just running two channels. Its a keeper. Using it in conjunction with a H/K 745 reciever which for a reciever has some excellant internal amps, the power5 is a marked improvement (even at lower levels ) over the 745's internal amps. Even center channel dialog has improved. If I had to compare it sonically to a class a/b amp I would compare it to the Citation 7.1's I had a couple of years ago. Absolutely no sonic signature of its own and when your listening at insane levels it doesnt seem loud at all ..Crank it up baby

This amp will not warm up , cool down or change the sonic signature of your speakers or electronics in any way imo ..so its very dependent on whats in front of it ..So if your looking to add some flavor/twist/warmth or whatever to your setup..this aint gonna do that.

Thanks for your input. I just bought a used proceed amp3 and have been considering also comparing that to a ICE powered amp. How do you think the NHT power5 would stack up against the proceed?

Thanks,
Brandon
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post #6 of 584 Old 03-12-2008, 08:28 PM
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Thanks, I also am interested of the Power5 and am trying to decide whether I can justify the premium over the Emotiva XPA-5, which is also 200x5 but class A.
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post #7 of 584 Old 03-12-2008, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by UWDawg View Post

Thanks, I also am interested of the Power5 and am trying to decide whether I can justify the premium over the Emotiva XPA-5, which is also 200x5 but class A.


Class AB. If you look for raw power, cost and listen to heavy rock get the XPA. If you want finesse, transparency, detail, and power you know what you should get In the end you get what you pay for.
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post #8 of 584 Old 03-12-2008, 08:42 PM
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Or perhaps a used IPS-1...decision, decisions.
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post #9 of 584 Old 03-12-2008, 11:38 PM
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The Power5 uses two 500ASP modules and three 500A modules.

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post #10 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The Power5 uses three 500ASP modules and two 500AS modules.

Interesting.

So I would imagine the 500ASP modules are for the L/C/R channels, and the two 500AS modules for surrounds? Although it probably makes no difference. Maybe the AS modules are for the L/R channels?

And the AS modules get their power from two of the ASP modules?

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post #11 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 12:17 AM
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Just ordered a Power 5 from Listenup. A great price and Listenup's return policy is very good if there is an issue. I have bought from them before and they were great to deal with.

I was looking a Wyred 4 Sounds Special Edition 100x5 which is $1499. plus shipping. The Power 5 is $300.00 cheaper, double the power and the shipping is free. I am not sure of the differences in the ICE modules between the Power 5 and the W4S. I would guess the Power 5 modules are of a older design but I feel it is a chance to try an ICE powered amp at a reasonable price.

It will be interesing to compare the Power 5 to my A52. One spec. I could not find was a 4ohm power rating. I would guess possibly double as some other ICE amps I have seen double the 8ohm rating.

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post #12 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 12:27 AM
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CS,

I was wrong. Just checked the schematic. The DC supplies from both of the 500ASPs are tied together through some isolation diodes. Then all three of the 500As are tied to this rail. The bottom line is the power supply rail is shared by all five amplifier channels equally.

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post #13 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 04:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


It will be interesing to compare the Power 5 to my A52. One spec. I could not find was a 4ohm power rating. I would guess possibly double as some other ICE amps I have seen double the 8ohm rating


Not sure what the 4 ohm stated rating is .. but here are some measurements taken from the Ht magazine review ...Not to shabby

All channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 257.1 watts
1% distortion at 299.1 watts

Frequency response:
–0.29 dB at 10 Hz; –0.09 dB at 20 Hz
–0.27 dB at 20 kHz; +0.68 dB at 50 kHz

This graph shows that the Power5's left amplifier channel, with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 291.6 watts and

1 percent distortion at 349.5 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 538.9 watts and 1 percent distortion at 640.2 watts. An input level of 117.0 mV was required to produce an output of 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load, indicating an overall gain of 27.59 dB.

Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –109.0 dB left to right and –106.78 dB right to left.—MJP
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post #14 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Correct. 500ASP on L/C/R and 500AS on LS/RS getting their power from the L and R amps

I must have missed this, I guess I should actually read the manual. The amp channels are marked 1 through 5, you dont happen to remember which channels are the L.R,C do you ? ... when I go home this evening I need to make sure I have it hooked up correctly.



Quote:


I just bought a used proceed amp3 and have been considering also comparing that to a ICE powered amp. How do you think the NHT power5 would stack up against the proceed?

I dont know but that Proceed amp3 is a very nice amp, I doubt the power5 would exceed it in sound quality but again Im not sure. The power5 reminds me most of the Citation 7.1's I had ( werent the Citations made by Proceed ?? )
One thing is for sure, the power5 is lighter, runs cooler, is smaller, brand new , has a full warranty ( NOT SURE HOW NHT WILL HANDLE THIS ??) but thats what Listenup states, and has 5 channels versues 3 from the proceed.
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post #15 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 05:28 AM
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How many AMPS does the Power5 draw? Would I need a dedicated 20amp circuit? (Or portable nuke plant?)

That's enough in my price range I'd consider it.

Those output numbers are insane.

Its not just a hobby, its a 401K reduction plan.
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post #16 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 05:40 AM
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Thanks psujohny. I just can't decide if i want to compare yet another amp(currently selling a 3 ch B&K)? I do love the proceed, but the NHT with 2 extra channels has my curiosity up.

Curtis, you have the ICE powered amp for your sierras, what are your thoughts on this NHT amp?

Take care,
Brandon
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post #17 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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How many AMPS does the Power5 draw? Would I need a dedicated 20amp circuit? (Or portable nuke plant?)

I could be wrong but I dont think these Ice amps draw as much current as a class a/b amp , so from this aspect Id think you'd be better off with Ice ..

Id like to get an answer from a tech type person on this though
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post #18 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh, One other thing I wanted to mention thats great about the power 5. Almost every amp Ive had in my HT room created some kinda hum or noise I could hear, be it from 1 ft, 3ft, 5 ft away depending on the unit.
The power5 was so quiet ( I put my ear on the speaker grill and could hear nothing )..after I first hooked it up, I thought it wasnt working becuase I didnt hear anything at all. Dead quiet
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post #19 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The Power5 uses three 500ASP modules and two 500AS modules.

Jack, do you know what modules the Power2 uses - is it 2x 500ASP or 1x500ASP and 1x500AS? I am considering getting one of those for bi-amping with the Power5. Thanks!
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post #20 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 10:01 AM
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The channels are 1 = L, 2 = LS, 3 = C, 4 = RS, 5 = R on the Power5.

The Power2 uses one 500ASP and TWO 500As. The amplifier channel on the 500ASP does nothing. This way both channels have absolutely identical behavior since they use exactly the same amplifier module.

It doesn't really make sense to specify a current draw for a power amplifier given the dynamic nature of music. If all five channels were amplifying sine waves at full power, the current draw would be around 20A. At a normal listening level, the current draw is going to be around 2A. The easiest way to know if you need a higher current AC circuit for the amplifier is to monitor the AC voltage when the system is playing back at your maximum playback level. If the voltage drops below 105VAC, I would consider it. If you don't have an analog voltmeter or a DVM with a bargraph, plug a small lamp into the same circuit. See if it dims much.

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post #21 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


The channels are 1 = L, 2 = LS, 3 = C, 4 = RS, 5 = R on the Power5


Thanks for the info, Jack


Quote:


It doesn't really make sense to specify a current draw for a power amplifier given the dynamic nature of music. If all five channels were amplifying sine waves at full power, the current draw would be around 20A. At a normal listening level, the current draw is going to be around 2A

I have the power5 hooked up to a 15 amp line along with a PJ , H/K 745 reciever , PS3 and HD sat box, Ive cranked it up really loud using 3 NHT M6s , 2 NHT L5's and then a pair of auperzero's and my breaker hasnt popped or anything.
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post #22 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 04:47 PM
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Just got my NHT Power 5 and I think I have a faulty unit. The noise floor is very high with nothing playing on all channels. Tried different interconnects and two different preamps (Onkyo 805 and an audiolab 8000S) - no difference.

Calling listenup to figure out how to sort it out I was so looking forward to getting it hooked up....
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post #23 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post

Just got my NHT Power 5 and I think I have a faulty unit. The noise floor is very high with nothing playing on all channels. Tried different interconnects and two different preamps (Onkyo 805 and an audiolab 8000S) - no difference.

Calling listenup to figure out how to sort it out I was so looking forward to getting it hooked up....

vulture,

Too bad about the amp. I ordered one today online and called Listenup with a few questions and after 6 calls leaving voicemails did not get a return call. Did you get through to them? I thought I had bought my BA gear from them but it was Audio Advisor.

I have to admit I am not happy about not being able to reach a person by phone then no reponse from my voicemails either. I hope they are not hard to deal with if by chance I have a problem with the Power 5 as you have.

Bill


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post #24 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 06:15 PM
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I didn't get a response but I assume that they have gone home since they are on MT. I sent them an email explaining the problem and hopefully will get a reply in the morning.
They did ship very quickly (same day) and I got the tracking number without asking. Also, Bruce responded very quickly to the question I had on the NHT controller through audiogon (that is where I spotted these for sale first).

I did some more investigating and there appears to be a grounding problem. If I use a power cord that does not ground the NHT to mains I get no noise (the amp comes with a cord that grounds it).The NHT is the only component in my rack that actually has the grounding pin in the IEC socket. The Onkyo 805 processor and the two audiolab amp/preamps I have use IEC sockets without grounding. I am running this off a dedicated 20amp circuit that is properly grounded and does not feed anything else in the house through a belkin PF60 conditioner.

There might be some funky wiring inside the NHT, I even looked at the wiring diagrams for the icepower modules at http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com...000aspdata.pdf. It looks like they all have balanced inputs by design so the NHT must be wired with the Vi- and analog ground shorted. In any case I would be interested to see if this is just a problem with my unit or if I am doing something wrong. In any case this is the first power amp that has done this in my rack and I have had quite a few.

Question for the other owners: How does one turn off amp modules that are not in use?
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post #25 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post

I didn't get a response but I assume that they have gone home since they are on MT. I sent them an email explaining the problem and hopefully will get a reply in the morning.
They did ship very quickly (same day) and I got the tracking number without asking. Also, Bruce responded very quickly to the question I had on the NHT controller through audiogon (that is where I spotted these for sale first).

I did some more investigating and there appears to be a grounding problem. If I use a power cord that does not ground the NHT to mains I get no noise (the amp comes with a cord that grounds it).The NHT is the only component in my rack that actually has the grounding pin in the IEC socket. The Onkyo 805 processor and the two audiolab amp/preamps I have use IEC sockets without grounding. I am running this off a dedicated 20amp circuit that is properly grounded and does not feed anything else in the house through a belkin PF60 conditioner.

There might be some funky wiring inside the NHT, I even looked at the wiring diagrams for the icepower modules at http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com...000aspdata.pdf. It looks like they all have balanced inputs by design so the NHT must be wired with the Vi- and analog ground shorted. In any case I would be interested to see if this is just a problem with my unit or if I am doing something wrong. In any case this is the first power amp that has done this in my rack and I have had quite a few.

Question for the other owners: How does one turn off amp modules that are not in use?

Vulture,

I also received the tracking number and the Power 5 is due on 3-19. I am also using the 805 as a pre-pro and I am concerned I might end up having the same problem you have. Would it be an issue if you continued to use a power cord that does not ground the NHT? I would be interested as to what Listenups response will be.

If NHT is getting out of the electronics end of the business I would hope they will still offer warranty coverage and service. When Boston was getting out of electronics their AVP7 and A7200 unit prices were cut similar to NHTs. I called Boston and they assured me that they would still offer warranty coverage and service for the duration of the warranty (5 years I believe). I think I will call NHT tomorrow to check to make sure.

In Kal's review of the NHT Controller and Power 5 he does not mention a ground issue. His review of the NHT combo was very positive which clinched my decision to buy one.

Bill


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post #26 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post

Curtis, you have the ICE powered amp for your sierras, what are your thoughts on this NHT amp?

I am using a two-channel 1000ASP based (two 1000ASP modules) amp. So I don't have any direct experience with 500ASP or 500A based amps.

That said, for the prices I have seen the Power5 going for....I think it is a steal.

-curtis

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post #27 of 584 Old 03-13-2008, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Vulture,

I also received the tracking number and the Power 5 is due on 3-19. I am also using the 805 as a pre-pro and I am concerned I might end up having the same problem you have. Would it be an issue if you continued to use a power cord that does not ground the NHT? I would be interested as to what Listenups response will be.

If NHT is getting out of the electronics end of the business I would hope they will still offer warranty coverage and service. When Boston was getting out of electronics their AVP7 and A7200 unit prices were cut similar to NHTs. I called Boston and they assured me that they would still offer warranty coverage and service for the duration of the warranty (5 years I believe). I think I will call NHT tomorrow to check to make sure.

In Kal's review of the NHT Controller and Power 5 he does not mention a ground issue. His review of the NHT combo was very positive which clinched my decision to buy one.

Bill

The issue has gone away completely by using a cord that does not ground the amp. I simply used the supplied cord (which BTW is pretty wimpy) and added one of those 3 to 2 pin adapters before plugging it into the outlet. No noise whatsoever. If I plug the power cord directly, the hum returns.

As far as sound, this amp sounds rich, powerful and detailed with incredible instrument/vocal separation and focus. You can tell how the instruments are layered on the stage! I have not heard anything like it before. I have used the british made audiolab/TagMclaren gear, an emotiva IPS-1 and panasonic digital amps. I am driving it with the Onkyo 805, which is essentially like the Integra 9.8/Onkyo Pro 885 processors in terms of audio capabilities and D/A conversion. I am using an older Sony transport and also a PS3 that upsamples to 176khz with the noise shaping filter turned on. This surpasses everything and leaves it in the dust. After listening to it for about 10 mins (Air albums that are fairly complex and some Celso Fonseca) my girlfriend insisted that we were going to eat dinner in the living room while listening to it. The sound is simply captivating.

I will talk to the dealer tomorrow and see if I can get to the bottom of the grounding issue.
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post #28 of 584 Old 03-14-2008, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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The issue has gone away completely by using a cord that does not ground the amp.

In my setup, I dont have to use a cheater plug with the power5 and it is dead quiet, but Ive had other amps and electronics that Ive had to use a cheater on. I dont think there is anything wrong with your amp per say...Probably more about your house wiring and compatibilty with your other electronics, sometimes a cheater is needed, no big deal imo


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As far as sound, this amp sounds rich, powerful and detailed with incredible instrument/vocal separation and focus. You can tell how the instruments are layered on the stage! I have not heard anything like it before.

Glad to hear that it impressed you...

...I sit down again last night and listened for several hours to all kinds of material. Let me say first that Im able to listen at much louder volumes comfortably, its screams to be turned up and I still havent heard any harshness or distortion ( I hate when a system screams to be turned down, as in hurts my ears )
My fiirst impression was just re-enforced, crystal clear with lots of power and no sonic signature of its own. ...I dont know that I could ask for more in a cool running 36 lb amp.


One thing though ( I still need to read the manual ) but I know it has auto sense on/off ... does this feature just work if your hooked to the NHT controller (only) ?
I left the amp for an hour or so last night after I was done, to see if it would go into sleep mode, but it was still on ( green ) after an hour.
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post #29 of 584 Old 03-14-2008, 04:33 AM
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Turning off unused channels is done via the NHTBus which appears to require the NHT Controller.

Ken
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post #30 of 584 Old 03-14-2008, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture View Post

The issue has gone away completely by using a cord that does not ground the amp. I simply used the supplied cord (which BTW is pretty wimpy) and added one of those 3 to 2 pin adapters before plugging it into the outlet. No noise whatsoever. If I plug the power cord directly, the hum returns.

As far as sound, this amp sounds rich, powerful and detailed with incredible instrument/vocal separation and focus. You can tell how the instruments are layered on the stage! I have not heard anything like it before. I have used the british made audiolab/TagMclaren gear, an emotiva IPS-1 and panasonic digital amps. I am driving it with the Onkyo 805, which is essentially like the Integra 9.8/Onkyo Pro 885 processors in terms of audio capabilities and D/A conversion. I am using an older Sony transport and also a PS3 that upsamples to 176khz with the noise shaping filter turned on. This surpasses everything and leaves it in the dust. After listening to it for about 10 mins (Air albums that are fairly complex and some Celso Fonseca) my girlfriend insisted that we were going to eat dinner in the living room while listening to it. The sound is simply captivating.

I will talk to the dealer tomorrow and see if I can get to the bottom of the grounding issue.

vulture,

Now I understand what you mean in regard to a grounded plug and the use of a cheater plug. I should be fine when I get the Power 5 as my Parasound A52 has a grounded plug. I have the A52 plugged into a Panamax 5100 with no noise issues. I do not have a dedicated breaker for my system as it is on a zone for my living room.

The odd thing I found trying to get the Zone 2 trigger to work was if the A52 was on without the 805 being on I got hum through my R&L front speakers. I even disconnected all the RCA inputs to the A52 leaving only the speaker outputs and still had the hum. But as soon as I reconnected all the RCA inputs and powered up the 805 all speakers are dead quiet, very odd. I wonder if I added a cheater plug if it would stop the hum. It is really a non issue as the amp is now triggered by the Zone 2 12v trigger and shuts off with the 805.

My thoughts on the 805's audio capabilities are the same as yours and I believe they are similar or the same as the 9.8/885. I started a thread asking the question if the analog section of the 805 was the same or similar as the 9.8/885 but did not get a reply either way.

I am glad to hear you are very happy with the SQ of the Power 5. I had thought about the Emotiva IPS-1 at one time but bought the A52. The XPA-5 also looked interesting for the additional power and the low cost. But I am really interested in SQ than the additional power. It looks like the Power 5 will give me the SQ of the A52 (or better?) and almost double the power output. I look forward to getting the Power 5 and comparing it to the A52.

Bill


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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