Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 26371 Old 03-29-2008, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenBishop View Post

I think I found the answer in the ps3 Forum. Here's a quote from one of the posts:

"If you are waiting for bitstreaming of the HD codecs (TrueHD and Master Audio) via HDMI, you will be dissapointed...the HDMI chip on the PS3 is incapable of streaming HD audio. Its a hardware issue, not a software issue that could be addressed with a firmware update. The best you can hope for is internal decoding of DTS-HD Master Audio and LPCM output via HDMI, which is how the PS3 currently handles TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus. By the way, the PS3 already can decode and playback ALL Dolby codecs, either in 5.1 or 7.1 format. ......."

So it appears the TrueHD is internally decoded by the ps3 and then transported via PCM.

Thats correct. Leave it at PCM. Your display should say Multi ch in.
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post #452 of 26371 Old 03-29-2008, 09:48 PM
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back home from the US today and finally got my hands on the denon avp thats been waiting for me !

so far not even hooked it up. but pulling it out the box am extremely impressed by the build, fit and finish of this unit. it really is quite somethign to behold.

have never had a play wiht an av pre-pro anything quite like it ! cant wait to hook it up but that wont be for another day or so as got to do some mods to the rack before can get it in place !

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."



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post #453 of 26371 Old 03-29-2008, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

If you selected standard in the "surround mode" setting and its still saying multi ch in, than you are sending it PCM.

Goto information>audio input signal and it will show you whats coming in and what DSP (if any) is applied.

That's what I needed. Thank you!

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post #454 of 26371 Old 03-29-2008, 10:58 PM
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Is the only way to get 7.1 out of DTS/DD 5.1 to select the THX surround? Is this similar to Logic 7?

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post #455 of 26371 Old 03-29-2008, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

I'm using a Toshiba a35 HDDVD player via HDMI to my AVP. I have a HD DTS demo disc. It has several different movie clips including ones with DTS-HD MA. The AVP just displays THX Ultra Cinema. Nothing about DTS is displayed at all. When in standard mode the AVP just displays multichannel. I'm really confused.

I set the bd30k to bitstream, selected uncompressed audio and still the AVP screen diplays 'multi ch'. I tried with and without audyssey, direct, standard etc, with same result. Plus if I try to alter the video setting, brightness, contrast and other parameters, won't see changes at all... Is the AVP's Realta active at all? Most settings are set to auto
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post #456 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Is the only way to get 7.1 out of DTS/DD 5.1 to select the THX surround? Is this similar to Logic 7?

IIx cinema seems to be the best.
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post #457 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

I set the bd30k to bitstream, selected uncompressed audio and still the AVP screen diplays 'multi ch'. I tried with and without audyssey, direct, standard etc, with same result. Plus if I try to alter the video setting, brightness, contrast and other parameters, won't see changes at all... Is the AVP's Realta active at all? Most settings are set to auto

Are you playing a PCM title or Tru HD, DTS HD title?
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post #458 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Is the only way to get 7.1 out of DTS/DD 5.1 to select the THX surround? Is this similar to Logic 7?

PLIIx is closer to how L7 works (each surround speaker gets different content) than the THX Cinema mode (which runs the rear speakers as dual-mono).

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post #459 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Are you playing a PCM title or Tru HD, DTS HD title?

I did select uncompressed. Could you please confirm what the display should say while playing DTS-MA or TrueHD? With so much in the AVP to adjust, it is more than possible that I miss configured it, or maybe that the display should say that, multi ch in.

Regarding video, even with standard TV, if I adjust some video settings like brightness, contrast, etc, I see no change. Nothing happens.
Most settings in the AVP are set to auto.
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post #460 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 06:53 AM
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If you selected uncompressed you are getting PCM and will only see multi-ch in or any postprocessing on top of it. Assuming you have the plyer correctly set to bitstream you need:

1) A disc with DTS-MA AND
2) Pick DTS-MA on the disc audio menu (it is typically NOT the default)

Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

I did select uncompressed. Could you please confirm what the display should say while playing DTS-MA or TrueHD? With so much in the AVP to adjust, it is more than possible that I miss configured it, or maybe that the display should say that, multi ch in.

Regarding video, even with standard TV, if I adjust some video settings like brightness, contrast, etc, I see no change. Nothing happens.
Most settings in the AVP are set to auto.


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post #461 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

I set the bd30k to bitstream, selected uncompressed audio and still the AVP screen diplays 'multi ch'. I tried with and without audyssey, direct, standard etc, with same result.

In the BD30K, set the Secondary Audio to OFF.
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post #462 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

If you selected uncompressed you are getting PCM and will only see multi-ch in or any postprocessing on top of it. Assuming you have the plyer correctly set to bitstream you need:

1) A disc with DTS-MA AND
2) Pick DTS-MA on the disc audio menu (it is typically NOT the default)

Ok, in the player's menu I selected uncompressed as it is the only other option beside standard DD 5.1. Would that be either DTS-MA or TrueHD? Sorry for the dumb question: is PMC a different signal from the before mentioned uncompressed DTS and Dolby?

Secondary audio is off.

Movie I have handy at the moment is a just released No Country for Old Man
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post #463 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Ok, in the player's menu I selected uncompressed as it is the only other option beside standard DD 5.1. Would that be either DTS-MA or TrueHD? Sorry for the dumb question: is PMC a different signal from the before mentioned uncompressed DTS and Dolby?

Secondary audio is off.

Movie I have handy at the moment is a just released No Country for Old Man

English 5.1 Dolby Digital. You should first check to see what Audio the movie supports. If it doesn't say DTS-MA or TrueHD then you'll be at the older 5.1 DD/DTS. I looked for you at that movie's main website under tech specs and it mentions only DD 5.1
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post #464 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentium7 View Post

English 5.1 Dolby Digital. You should first check to see what Audio the movie supports. If it doesn't say DTS-MA or TrueHD then you'll be at the older 5.1 DD/DTS. I looked for you at that movie's main website under tech specs and it mentions only DD 5.1

Well, I thought that all the bluerays's soundtracks had at least TrueHD. It does have the uncompressed option and I wonder what would that be.
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post #465 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Ok, in the player's menu I selected uncompressed as it is the only other option beside standard DD 5.1. Would that be either DTS-MA or TrueHD? Sorry for the dumb question: is PMC a different signal from the before mentioned uncompressed DTS and Dolby?

Secondary audio is off.

Movie I have handy at the moment is a just released No Country for Old Man

Yes, you need to pick a movie with DTS-MA and pick it on the audio menu when playing or you will only see what you are seenig on the front panel. This is not a processor or a player issue. You need to pick a different disk and look at the lower back case to see what audio is supported.

The No Country uncompressed should be excellent audio, regardless of what the front panel says.

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post #466 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Hmmm... I never thought of it that way. So having only one ear on the side of my head will lose any kind of stereo effect to the sides and will not place the sound in the center of them? The "phantom center" was the best description I could come up with!
I've always felt multiple side surrounds would be ideal if you had the room instead of dipole/bipole.
Are the delays in the Denon enough, or are you talking about something else?

The delays needed are simply relative to the distances between the speakers. Figure, roughly, 1mS per foot. I do not know what is available from the Denon.

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post #467 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Yes, you need to pick a movie with DTS-MA and pick it on the audio menu when playing or you will only see what you are seenig on the front panel. This is not a processor or a player issue. You need to pick a different disk and look at the lower back case to see what audio is supported.

The No Country uncompressed should be excellent audio, regardless of what the front panel says.

It is indeed!
It took a while but I understand now.
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post #468 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by orologio View Post

It is indeed!
It took a while but I understand now.

All that trouble and you were playing the wrong disc!

Keep it simple: PCM = DTS HD = TRU HD (all are equal)

DTS HD will show DTS HD ma on your receiver, TRU HD will show Tru HD and PCM will show multi ch in.
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post #469 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

The delays needed are simply relative to the distances between the speakers. Figure, roughly, 1mS per foot. I do not know what is available from the Denon.

The Denon gives delay settings from speaker to listener for speaker B (like all the other speakers). It even has a separate level for A & B AND A&B together!
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post #470 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 09:45 AM
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I am thinking of getting the B&W 800D as fronts (currently using B&W 703) for my setup. I was told in another forum thread that the Amp (POA) is not good enough / strong enough to drive these speakers(??!?). Anyone here using the 800D or can shed some light on this? Thanks.
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post #471 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaharT View Post

I am thinking of getting the B&W 800D as fronts (currently using B&W 703) for my setup. I was told in another forum thread that the Amp (POA) is not good enough / strong enough to drive these speakers(??!?). Anyone here using the 800D or can shed some light on this? Thanks.

The POA can deliver tons of current. It will have no problem driving the B&W. If you want to crank it up to ungodly levels, you can always bridge six of the channels to run the LCRs and use the remaining 4 channels for surrounds.
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post #472 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 10:35 AM
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Is there a way to assign a surround to a source? For example, say I watch a movie or tv show with 5.1 or less, and want to make it 7.1. I would assign that source as THX or PLIIx. But say if I wanted to watch a DTS HD or TrueHD movie they would be assigned the "standard" surround in the AVP. Or do I have to manually change the AVP surround setting depending on what source is playing?

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post #473 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

All that trouble and you were playing the wrong disc!

Keep it simple: PCM = DTS HD = TRU HD (all are equal)

DTS HD will show DTS HD ma on your receiver, TRU HD will show Tru HD and PCM will show multi ch in.

...wrong disk?!
It is very confusing until once learn it, I know. But, The BD30 gives you an option to select PCM or Bitstream. So everyone here agrees that bitstream is the way to go. Ok. Then, while playing the selection the AVP displays PCM?! Now I understood that PCM is as good if not better the so much publicized Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA. So why don't we see unpublicized the PCM as well?
Of course it is confusing.

Very much appreciated your replies.
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post #474 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

The POA can deliver tons of current. It will have no problem driving the B&W. If you want to crank it up to ungodly levels, you can always bridge six of the channels to run the LCRs and use the remaining 4 channels for surrounds.

normal power amplifiers if they are 8 ohm at 150 watt bridge it it drops down to 4 ohm impetance.... if speakers does a huge dip this dip can kill bridged amps because of huge power consumption that power amp can't deliver... POA is constructed difference to manage this bridge to handle dips in impedance someone explain ?
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post #475 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

...wrong disk?!
It is very confusing until once learn it, I know. But, The BD30 gives you an option to select PCM or Bitstream. So everyone here agrees that bitstream is the way to go. Ok. Then, while playing the selection the AVP displays PCM?! Now I understood that PCM is as good if not better the so much publicized Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA. So why don't we see unpublicized the PCM as well?
Of course it is confusing.

Very much appreciated your replies.

I think it's been a very successful marketing story. AV companies and retailers have lots of people convinced that they must upgrade their HD player and their receiver, and oh yeah, for good measure run out and buy better HDMI cables, in order to enjoy the new HD audio formats.

It's not really your fault that you're confused- they didn't want you to understand that PCM is just the decoded version of whatever you're listening to. And that it's the same thing whether it's decoded in the player or your receiver/processor. Now, don't get me wrong- I love it that my AVP can decode everything but CIA transmissions (and maybe that's just because I haven't found that setting yet), but the fact is that virtually all HD players can decode the audio and send it out as PCM over an HDMI cable.
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post #476 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 11:17 AM
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progprog: I already heard some people claim that the way some players decode the audio is not as good as the way the pre/pro would do it. I guess its like the snake-oil cable issues. Some will believe it, others won't.
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post #477 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

...wrong disk?!
It is very confusing until once learn it, I know. But, The BD30 gives you an option to select PCM or Bitstream. So everyone here agrees that bitstream is the way to go. Ok. Then, while playing the selection the AVP displays PCM?! Now I understood that PCM is as good if not better the so much publicized Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA. So why don't we see unpublicized the PCM as well?
Of course it is confusing.

Very much appreciated your replies.

DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are both compression codecs. When both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are uncompressed they are PCM. When your Denon receives a DTS-HD MA signal it will display it on it's front panel. The Denon takes the Compressed DTS-HD MA signal and decodes it into a Uncompressed PCM signal to feed it's DSP and DACS.
When a disc has a Uncompressed PCM 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack it just means they had enough room on the disc that they did not need to compress it with either DTS-HD MA or TrueHD.

Think of it like a computer program. When a file is very large it is often zipped (compressed) so it is smaller to send, when it arrives at the destination computer it then needs to be unzipped (uncompressed) so that it is usable.

It is a very simple process that can confuse a lot of people if they over think it.

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post #478 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 11:32 AM
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Quick question:

Can the AVP be configured to do the main speaker crossovers in a bi-amp config?

That is, can I take the left/right channels and send >300Hz to one ouput, 60 to 300Hz to another and then the <60Hz to the Sub?


I read the manual and it does not seem to support that, but wanted to check with this group.

Jonathan


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post #479 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaharT View Post

progprog: I already heard some people claim that the way some players decode the audio is not as good as the way the pre/pro would do it. I guess its like the snake-oil cable issues. Some will believe it, others won't.

Yeah, I know. And I've heard believers on both sides present perfectly reasonable and convincing arguments. Personally, I think the bigger impact on sound quality happens in the DACs that convert that PCM signal. And that's where (IMHO) you get the huge advantage of the AVP either way.
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post #480 of 26371 Old 03-30-2008, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are both compression codecs. When both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are uncompressed they are PCM. When your Denon receives a DTS-HD MA signal it will display it on it's front panel. The Denon takes the Compressed DTS-HD MA signal and decodes it into a Uncompressed PCM signal to feed it's DSP and DACS.
When a disc has a Uncompressed PCM 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack it just means they had enough room on the disc that they did not need to compress it with either DTS-HD MA or TrueHD.

Think of it like a computer program. When a file is very large it is often zipped (compressed) so it is smaller to send, when it arrives at the destination computer it then needs to be unzipped (uncompressed) so that it is usable.

It is a very simple process that can confuse a lot of people if they over think it.

Well put. I think another good comparison is to digital music: it can be lossy or lossless, and then as a completely different parameter, it can be compressed or not. TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are analogous to flac files- they are lossless audio tracks compressed by a proprietary algorithm. The "decoders" in our components are just firmware that can recognize that format and de-compress it to PCM, the uncompressed version.

For comparison, the older formats we're used to, like DD5.1 and DTS, are analogous to mp3 files: they are lossy formats that are also compressed. While they can be very good, they have necessarily lost some of the music data forever. The key advantage to the new HD formats is that they're lossless- all the original audio information is still there.
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