Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 234 - AVS Forum
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post #6991 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

I thought the ZZ Top was pretty well recorded. If the other two you mention are even better, I might have to check them out. I'm not a huge Tull fan though. Everytime I see Ian Anderson I think of Will Ferrell as Ron Burgundy, jammin' on the flute in the restaurant. Cracks me up.

I'm waiting on The Hulk too. The AVP should really shake da house with that movie.

Ha, Ha good analogy, and you can add a bit of Johnny Depp from Pirates to that caricature.

I'm not a big Tull "fan" either but I was pleasantly surprised at the quality and I enjoyed the overall concert more than I thought I would. As well recorded as that is though, Pat Metheney's is the best I've heard yet.
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post #6992 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Hey Mark. The AVP does play .mp4 files (the compatibility list is on page 64 inthe manual). The problem with songs purchased on iTunes is that they have to be "authorized" for the computer(s) on which you play them. I assume it's still the same, but you used to always have up to five concurrent authorizations available. Example: when I bought my son a new computer last Christmas and we copied everything over, his iTunes library had to be authorized before his purchased music would play. He was then using two authorizations for the two computers.

This raises an interesting question for me. I wonder if there is a way to authorize a NAS? I kind of doubt it, as Apple has been pretty thorough in limiting the use of the music they sell and putting it on a NAS means you could play it practically anywhere. Anyone who knows more about iTunes DRM- I'd be very interested in your thoughts on this.

The iTunes server on the ReadyNAS works very well. I have an extensive library on my NAS, and even though none of it was ripped & formatted in iTunes (I don't even have iTunes on my computers), it shows up as "iTunes Server" on my son's computer, giving him complete access to my music and all its metadata.

Thanks for the info Prog. I suspect you are correct about the limitation that purchased music would be limited to play only on iTunes "clients".

Is your son's computer Mac or Windows?

Any opinions on using an iMac with iTunes to rip my CD collection?

Thanks.

Mark


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post #6993 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Blake View Post

Geoff - sorry to hear your AVP also requires service I brought my POA in today. Luckily I have a new Denon/Marantz service center that is only a mile from my house. Interestingly, they told me that the service manual for the POA is out and there's 3 pages of diagnostics you can access via various button presses. Will be interesting to see what those are!

So at least it sounds like there's not going to be any hassle about getting warranty coverage on your POA. I was a bit concerned what would happen given that some of the problems may be from shipping damage.

I obviously wish I lived close to a Denon service center, but the interesting thing is when I called to check which center I should ship my AVP to, the service rep checked to see if there were any local authorized dealers for the AVP. He couldn't find one within 100 miles of my zip code. I live just outside of Boston!!!! So at least according to him, there's no authorized dealer that carries the AVP in a good chunk of New England.

Quote:


On your McIntosh SACD player I believe you need to have an HDMI v1.2 (or 1.3) output to get direct DSD output. HDMI 1.2 players are very rare. My Oppo 980H has it, but I believe very few other players do. DVD-A out only requires HDMI 1.1. My guess is that's what your McIntosh has. If so, use the multichannel analog ins on the AVP for your SACD source.

That makes sense. My multichannel analog input on the AVP is taken by the multichannel out on my HTPC for Bluray playback until the new Oppo (or Denon) player comes out. I can live without SACD in the system for the time being. The McIntosh player is usually in my analog only 2-channel office system. I moved it into my home theater system figuring it would give me a high quality HDMI audio source to play around with for now.
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post #6994 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Thanks for the info Prog. I suspect you are correct about the limitation that purchased music would be limited to play only on iTunes "clients".

Is your son's computer Mac or Windows?

Any opinions on using an iMac with iTunes to rip my CD collection?

Thanks.

Mark

His computer is Windows Vista, as are all of mine, but he uses iTunes exclusively as his media player. When my daughter has come home with her Mac, the iTunes server on my ReadyNAS shows up on her computer the same way. I'm sure that iTunes works equally well on both platforms for ripping music; just be sure that it supports the format you want to rip to. And if you go that route, also ensure that all the ripping parameters are the way you want them before you start. I think all the iTunes defaults are geared toward quick, low-quality (128kbps) mp3s.
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post #6995 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

His computer is Windows Vista, as are all of mine, but he uses iTunes exclusively as his media player. When my daughter has come home with her Mac, the iTunes server on my ReadyNAS shows up on her computer the same way. I'm sure that iTunes works equally well on both platforms for ripping music; just be sure that it supports the format you want to rip to. And if you go that route, also ensure that all the ripping parameters are the way you want them before you start. I think all the iTunes defaults are geared toward quick, low-quality (128kbps) mp3s.

Yeah, I re-set the preferences to WAV encoder, 48 kHz, 16 bit and using error correction. I was just thinking the disk drive on the iMac would be higher quality than my PC. However, it is a vertically oriented drive versus horizontal. Any down side to that configuration?

If I went with my PC, I would just use WMA and rip using .WAV; I suppose I could pick up a Plextor disk drive to ensure quality.

I do like how iTunes picked up the metadata automatically...I'm not sure if that is the norm.

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post #6996 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Thanks for the info Prog. I suspect you are correct about the limitation that purchased music would be limited to play only on iTunes "clients".

Is your son's computer Mac or Windows?

Any opinions on using an iMac with iTunes to rip my CD collection?

Thanks.

Mark

I use Apple lossless with iTunes and Apple TV. I find it gives excellent results although I am still primarily using SACD/CD's.

I have to say I am becoming a really big fan of the Apple TV. Apart from the audio, I have been using it increasingly to download HD TV shows and rent the odd HD movie. I have also found places on the net that supply itunes vouchers for less than their face value - which makes the actual purchases on itunes somewhat of a bargain.

The Apple TV is also portable and self configuring, with the result that it can be taken almost anywhere with your audio and video favourites. I am finding I use pay TV (satellite) much less these days and it will probably work out much cheaper for me to simply buy programming as needed from itunes.
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post #6997 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Yeah, I re-set the preferences to WAV encoder, 48 kHz, 16 bit and using error correction. I was just thinking the disk drive on the iMac would be higher quality than my PC. However, it is a vertically oriented drive versus horizontal. Any down side to that configuration?

If I went with my PC, I would just use WMA and rip using .WAV; I suppose I could pick up a Plextor disk drive to ensure quality.

I do like how iTunes picked up the metadata automatically...I'm not sure if that is the norm.

Mark

Hard to say which drive is better without testing. One nice thing about a program like EAC (and others, I'm sure) is that it runs tests on your drives and measures the offsets (whatever those are , but they seem to think it's important). I'm sure either machine will work fine. I actually use two different computers to rip my music, dependent entirely on where I happen to be sitting at the time. I do find that my desktop is faster than my laptop.....
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post #6998 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Interesting hypothesis. I'd be curious to hear how these things work for jackox, who lives in France but buys N.A. versions of his Denon equipment. The response he gets when trying to upgrade should answer your question about which information the servers use to differentiate.

His should be able to update, Im guessing here because when he does the update it's programed to source it download where you all download. I used to have an American Hd DVD Player and when downloading updates it will source the firmware via Toshiba in the states.Mine is know saying 'authenticating'.

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post #6999 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post

His should be able to update, Im guessing here because when he does the update it's programed to source it download where you all download. I used to have an American Hd DVD Player and when downloading updates it will source the firmware via Toshiba in the states.Mine is know saying 'authenticating'.

Do you think that means you could somehow "fool" it into going to a different server?
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post #7000 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Do you think that means you could somehow "fool" it into going to a different server?

That I would not know, it will be intresting to see if someone could. But the thing is your avp has a few xtras that we dont so you have to becareful as the US firmware could be specially written for the US AVP's

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post #7001 of 26371 Old 10-17-2008, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post

That I would not know, it will be intresting to see if someone could. But the thing is your avp has a few xtras that we dont so you have to becareful as the US firmware could be specially written for the US AVP's

Yeah...good point.
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post #7002 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 02:41 AM
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Ongoing Does the AVP do volume control in the Analog domain or digital domain' sub-thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

The avp can only claim to be fully balanced if also the volume control is done in a analog way. Look at this schema and you will see that a balanced signal goes into the gain section and gets out again. You can also see that a analog signal passed the digital part of the design. Unless you add audessey or something else on then it gets converted to perform that.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/p...e_E3.jpg/image

Daniel.


Daniel, yes I'd seen those slides, but they are obviously training or marketing materials for their dealers and reps, so I take them with a grain of salt. Much like anything on their web site.

The AVP COULD still claim fully balanced as one of the big features is that it has is the differential DACs on ALL channels.

The diagram does list one interesting thing: the balanced output board is labeled as having Variable gain volume'. That would be definitely analog. But then it begs the question: how do the RCA jacks get their signal? (possible answer: half the balanced leg from the balanced card)

The diagram also makes it look like the free assign' is a fully balanced switcher that takes either the balanced analog in or the balanced output of the DACs and routes to the selected balanced output channel. That's a killer feature

But I'd still not take that diagram as gospel, e.g. it fails to show where the analog-in might go through an ADC to feed the digital boards.

Anyone have access to a true engineering schematic or high-level architecture diagram of this thing?
I'd love to see that.

Jonathan


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post #7003 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

Ongoing Does the AVP do volume control in the Analog domain or digital domain' sub-thread:




Daniel, yes I'd seen those slides, but they are obviously training or marketing materials for their dealers and reps, so I take them with a grain of salt. Much like anything on their web site.

The AVP COULD still claim fully balanced as one of the big features is that it has is the differential DACs on ALL channels.

The diagram does list one interesting thing: the balanced output board is labeled as having Variable gain volume'. That would be definitely analog. But then it begs the question: how do the RCA jacks get their signal? (possible answer: half the balanced leg from the balanced card)

The diagram also makes it look like the free assign' is a fully balanced switcher that takes either the balanced analog in or the balanced output of the DACs and routes to the selected balanced output channel. That's a killer feature

But I'd still not take that diagram as gospel, e.g. it fails to show where the analog-in might go through an ADC to feed the digital boards.

Anyone have access to a true engineering schematic or high-level architecture diagram of this thing?
I'd love to see that.

With the second you mean this one i guess :

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/p...nced.jpg/image

I guess the rest is faith but in the interview with Gene, Jeff seemed more than willing to proof his claims maybe we can ask Gene to ask for more schema's on how this monster is build up. If i compare it to say the new b&k or classe it seems the avp has more than a few hidden features we probably don't fully understand.

I personally use eq also on pure-direct so the whole balanced thing is kind of relative. There seem to be 2 movements that just don't mix. Start digital, stay digital as long as you can until you reach the last stage and be balanced from start to finish to me the first makes more sense and is where we are going.

Daniel.

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post #7004 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 05:19 AM
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Serial command for Sirius

with the addition of Sirius radio in the recent firmware upgrade: as suggested all you have to do is substitute SIRIUS in the command string to get to the new input

example: Z2SIRIUS\
which switches zone 2 input to Sirius

What I do is take the command strings I need for XM and just change the name in the string
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post #7005 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Hard to say which drive is better without testing. One nice thing about a program like EAC (and others, I'm sure) is that it runs tests on your drives and measures the offsets (whatever those are , but they seem to think it's important). I'm sure either machine will work fine. I actually use two different computers to rip my music, dependent entirely on where I happen to be sitting at the time. I do find that my desktop is faster than my laptop.....


Thanks. What about the fact that iTunes picked up the metadata automatically? Was it because it was a fairly new CD (Daughtry) and that is embedded? It did not find any info for the Queen Greatest Hits CD.

Thanks.

Mark


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post #7006 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tassop View Post

I use Apple lossless with iTunes and Apple TV. I find it gives excellent results although I am still primarily using SACD/CD's.

I have to say I am becoming a really big fan of the Apple TV. Apart from the audio, I have been using it increasingly to download HD TV shows and rent the odd HD movie. I have also found places on the net that supply itunes vouchers for less than their face value - which makes the actual purchases on itunes somewhat of a bargain.

The Apple TV is also portable and self configuring, with the result that it can be taken almost anywhere with your audio and video favourites. I am finding I use pay TV (satellite) much less these days and it will probably work out much cheaper for me to simply buy programming as needed from itunes.

i just got a apple tv within the last 2 months. there is a great hack to install boxee on it. having a lot of fun with it. directv will have a new 1080p service which will be pretty hard to beat. pq is almost as good as blu-ray but no true dolby or dts master
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post #7007 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 07:55 AM
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Hai,

While bughunting the audio volume bug i took down the euro models current (pre 68min) and after firmware versions post them so people can compare :

Interesting note this update didn't result in the volume bug (i didn't have to clean the memory and start from zero) so maybe they fixed it.

prev:

version AVCE2
Main 1.76
sub 1.04
main rom 1.76
main PLD 0.25
DSP1 36.59
DSP2 37.16
DSP3 38.12
eth 2008080291117
eth BL 200707020770-0a
eth CNE 20080829
eth web W200809020242
eth mac 005cd-193e9a
GUI FPGA A080719A
GUI PRG 7621
GUI DAT 10003021
REALTA 08030a
HDMI A PLD 00,20
DGTL FPGA 0.72
VIDEO PLD 00.10
POA1 Version 00.37


Latest :

version AVCE2

Main 1.77 (changed)
sub 1.04
main rom 1.77 (changed)
main PLD 0.25
DSP1 36.60 (changed)
DSP2 37.17 (changed)
DSP3 38.12
eth 2008080291117
eth BL 200707020733-0a (changed)
eth CNE 20080829
eth web W200809020242
eth mac 005cd-193e9a
GUI FPGA A080719A
GUI PRG 7621
GUI DAT 10003022 (changed)
REALTA 08030a
HDMI A PLD 00,20
DGTL FPGA 0.72
VIDEO PLD 00.10
POA1 Version 00.37

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post #7008 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Interesting note this update didn't result in the volume bug (i didn't have to clean the memory and start from zero) so maybe they fixed it.

Did they fix it daniel?

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post #7009 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

With the second you mean this one i guess :

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/p...nced.jpg/image

I guess the rest is faith but in the interview with Gene, Jeff seemed more than willing to proof his claims maybe we can ask Gene to ask for more schema's on how this monster is build up. If i compare it to say the new b&k or classe it seems the avp has more than a few hidden features we probably don't fully understand.

I personally use eq also on pure-direct so the whole balanced thing is kind of relative. There seem to be 2 movements that just don't mix. Start digital, stay digital as long as you can until you reach the last stage and be balanced from start to finish to me the first makes more sense and is where we are going.

Daniel.


Personally, I'd love it if the volume control is analog, as that means full digital resolution is maintained throughout the AVP's digital chain.

Looking at those output boards, it seems there are four discrete transistors + dual IC's (probably some digitally controlled ladder resistor IC like a Burr-Brown PGA2310 )

Here's an intersting discussion of doing high-quality volume control with various components

I also run EQ and other digital processing 100% of the time, as 100% of my sources are digital. It is the 21st century after all

Jonathan


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post #7010 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 08:24 AM
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Folks - still a little perplexed by the "bridge" mode and before I start tweaking/pulling cable wanted to gather some insights. Given the below spec for my front and center speakers - do I run any risk/damage by bridging the relative terminals

Main/Front
Impedance
Nominal: 6 ohms,
Minimum: 1.1 ohms @ 20 kHz
Power Handling
200 watts per channel
Recommended Amplifier Power
80-200 watts per channel

Center
Impedance
Nominal: 6 ohms
Minimum: 4 ohms
Power Handling
150 watts
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post #7011 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 08:49 AM
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Hello,
I have my AVP with 2 hdmi outs :
1 to PJ with audio from AVP in Media room
2 to sony xbr in family room.
Now how can i get audio to room 2 because hdmi is set to audio : Amp
which analog outs can i use to send audio to XBR
any ideas, i need this to work
thanks
Manny
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post #7012 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Did they fix it daniel?

Well since its a random kinda bug (2 times after a firmware update 2 times (one for me one for seth) on switching a mode) its hard to tell. There is no way to proof it. I do notice they changed the number 2 DSP that is running the audysey code so who knows.

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post #7013 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmanny View Post

Hello,
I have my AVP with 2 hdmi outs :
1 to PJ with audio from AVP in Media room
2 to sony xbr in family room.
Now how can i get audio to room 2 because hdmi is set to audio : Amp
which analog outs can i use to send audio to XBR
any ideas, i need this to work
thanks
Manny

Can't you set the HDMI audio out to "TV" (or "monitor" or whatever they call it) for the XBR? Even if you set it for both outputs it wouldn't do anything to your PJ.
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post #7014 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by djdna View Post

Folks - still a little perplexed by the "bridge" mode and before I start tweaking/pulling cable wanted to gather some insights. Given the below spec for my front and center speakers - do I run any risk/damage by bridging the relative terminals

I think the benefits of bridging outweigh those of "passive" bi-amping, and from a risk perspective it's more likely you'd damage speakers with not enough power than too much. I run 500w/ch to my mains that are rated at 250w max with no issues.
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post #7015 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

Personally, I'd love it if the volume control is analog, as that means full digital resolution is maintained throughout the AVP's digital chain.

Looking at those output boards, it seems there are four discrete transistors + dual IC's (probably some digitally controlled ladder resistor IC like a Burr-Brown PGA2310 )

Here's an intersting discussion of doing high-quality volume control with various components

I also run EQ and other digital processing 100% of the time, as 100% of my sources are digital. It is the 21st century after all

Don't they allways do it like this ? I mean make it analog using the dacs and then use a analog control? If you don't it will be very crude since if you want say 25% output you would loose most of dynamics. Again i am just a programmer and have no idea how this is normally done but doing it the in analog (even if its digital controlled) is the only way it makes sense to me.

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post #7016 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

I think the benefits of bridging outweigh those of "passive" bi-amping, and from a risk perspective it's more likely you'd damage speakers with not enough power than too much. I run 500w/ch to my mains that are rated at 250w max with no issues.

Keep in mind if your mains really dip into 1.1ohms it might ask alot from a poa in bridge. I also use my 3 fronts in bridge mode and they are rated at 175W cont. and 375w max.

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post #7017 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Keep in mind if your mains really dip into 1.1ohms it might ask alot from a poa in bridge. Daniel.

I don't understand, why would that be the case?
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post #7018 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

I don't understand, why would that be the case?

Did i make a mistake again ? The poa is stable for 4ohm speakers when bridged (so stable in 2ohms). If his speakers go below that on large parts of the freq. range than it can ask too much no?

Or do i mis something again, please correct me.

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post #7019 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Thanks. What about the fact that iTunes picked up the metadata automatically? Was it because it was a fairly new CD (Daughtry) and that is embedded? It did not find any info for the Queen Greatest Hits CD.

Thanks.

Mark

Yes, most CDs have complete metadata these days, while you might find older ones that don't. This isn't generally a problem, though, as most full-featured ripping programs can go online and find the data, often along with album art. iTunes is pretty good at that, I believe. One thing to keep in mind is that metadata is just a database of details, and you can generally choose which details you want saved as part of your song files. You can stick to the basics like artist, title, track, etc., or get so involved as to include composer, ripping program, featured artists, and so on. (Genre can get tricky- I've had to come up with my own system to keep that straight.)

Similarly, you can tell the program how to structure the filenames. I'm kind of a stickler for keeping this consistent so my files are nicely organized. Example: a program's defaults might structure the filename as Artist-Album-Title-Track.wav or (Track)Title_Artist_Album.wav, etc. (Some use "%" signs as separators- I hate that.) For media players' sake, it's best to choose a structure and keep it consistent.
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post #7020 of 26371 Old 10-18-2008, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Can't you set the HDMI audio out to "TV" (or "monitor" or whatever they call it) for the XBR? Even if you set it for both outputs it wouldn't do anything to your PJ.

Can the HDMI Audio Out option be set for each HDMi output? If not, I can see where this would be a big problem. As you mentioned, if Manny sets HDMI=TV and it applies to both outputs, he'll get audio over on his second setup, and it won't hurt his projector. But wouldn't he lose audio in his main system? I.e., it would no longer be sent to his amp in that room?

The more I think about it, I don't see how this dual-HDMI feature could work very well if you can't set this option individually.
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