Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 235 - AVS Forum
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post #7021 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 12:53 PM
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I'm having an issue with component out through the Denon AVP-A1HDCI. If I have the signal going out through component outputs and the HDMI outputs at the same time to the same projector, the component outputs won't work correctly. The signal goes in and out.

If I connect a second HDMI cable to my backup TV in the equipment closet and turn it on, I can get the component signal to stop switching on and off. If I switch off the TV, the component signal starts switching on and off again.

If I disconnect the HDMI to the projector and just connect through the component cables, it works fine.

Something is going wrong when trying to run a signal to the same device through two cables. This happened with HDMI as well when running both monitor outputs to the same projector as well.

Does anyone know a solution for this problem? I would like to be able to turn off the other TV so I'm not wasting energy when I watch cable on the projector...

I know it is not any of my other equipment because I tried the projector and cable box out together separately using the same cables and it worked perfectly fine. It is only when I pass it through the Denon with both the HDMI and the Components hooked up that I have the issue. This leads me to believe there is some kind of grounding issue involved...

Thanks.

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post #7022 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

I'm having an issue with component out through the Denon AVP-A1HDCI. If I have the signal going out through component outputs and the HDMI outputs at the same time to the same projector, the component outputs won't work correctly. The signal goes in and out.

If I connect a second HDMI cable to my backup TV in the equipment closet and turn it on, I can get the component signal to stop switching on and off. If I switch off the TV, the component signal starts switching on and off again.

If I disconnect the HDMI to the projector and just connect through the component cables, it works fine.

Something is going wrong when trying to run a signal to the same device through two cables. This happened with HDMI as well when running both monitor outputs to the same projector as well.

Does anyone know a solution for this problem? I would like to be able to turn off the other TV so I'm not wasting energy when I watch cable on the projector...

I know it is not any of my other equipment because I tried the projector and cable box out together separately using the same cables and it worked perfectly fine. It is only when I pass it through the Denon with both the HDMI and the Components hooked up that I have the issue. This leads me to believe there is some kind of grounding issue involved...

Thanks.

Why not just use HDMI on the projector since that works? You could be having HDCP issues when trying to use the component signal.

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post #7023 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

Why not just use HDMI on the projector since that works? You could be having HDCP issues when trying to use the component signal.

Now what would make you think this is related to HDCP at all? I'm passing it purely analog through component cables... HDCP isn't an issue over component cables, and it works fine if I remove the HDMI cable and/or plug in a second monitor to a second device that is powered on. All things considered, a HDCP issue doesn't make sense in this situation at all as far as I can tell... The cable box only has the component out hooked up. If there is a HDCP issue with the Denon, then why does it work once a second monitor is connected via HDMI, but not when only one is hooked up? If it is the projector, then how come it works under these circumstances as well?

There are a few reasons I can't convert to HDMI only. One is that not all my devices have HDMI out, and they suffer from the same exact issue when I try to use them. The second is, this particular device doesn't handle the distance from the preprocessor to the projector well, so HDMI sparkles appear on the screen every now and then. I don't have this problem with HDMI sparkles any other device, just the cable box. I can't use my Xbox360 without component cables ATM, so I still need component hookups at this time.

In any case, even if I got rid of the Xbox 360 with one of those HDMI add-on cables, I still have the problems with my cable box sending a clean signal to the projector, which currently requires me to unplug the connection and manually mess with it to get it working correctly again...

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post #7024 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Can the HDMI Audio Out option be set for each HDMi output? If not, I can see where this would be a big problem. As you mentioned, if Manny sets HDMI=TV and it applies to both outputs, he'll get audio over on his second setup, and it won't hurt his projector. But wouldn't he lose audio in his main system? I.e., it would no longer be sent to his amp in that room?

The more I think about it, I don't see how this dual-HDMI feature could work very well if you can't set this option individually.

EXACTLY, if i set Hdmi=TV i lose audio from amp and vice versa.
why have 2 hdmi outs if they cannot be fully utilised.
AVP doesnt have main RCA audio outs, which if present i could send to 2nd XBR setup. even then hdmi sources will not output from analog RCA
if i have to set hdmi=tv then why spend $7500 on AVP pre amp

any ideas ???
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post #7025 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 01:30 PM
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The other odd thing is, it will send the signal to the second Denon HDMI monitor and the TV displays the signal no problems at the same time that the projector displays the signal no problem with the component output from the same Denon.

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post #7026 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 01:44 PM
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Also, the component setup works fine with the HDMI output to the same projector unplugged even while the HDMI to the other TV is still plugged in...

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post #7027 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

Now what would make you think this is related to HDCP at all? I'm passing it purely analog through component cables... HDCP isn't an issue over component cables, and it works fine if I remove the HDMI cable and/or plug in a second monitor to a second device that is powered on. ........

I don't know your complete connection setup, HDMI in >> Component out = potential HDCP issues.......

Sparkles is a classic HDMI cable problem. Replace the cable with a better one.

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post #7028 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

I don't know your complete connection setup, HDMI in >> Component out = potential HDCP issues.......

It is component connection from the cable box to the Denon receiver, and then a component connection from the Denon receiver to the projector. Thus, HDCP is not the issue...

The HDMI line is not being used for the cable box output, but it is plugged into the projector because it is used for other devices. Having it plugged in at all into the same projector, even though it is not being used, is causing the issues I described, unless I plug in a second HDMI cable to a second TV. In that case, everything works.

Quote:
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Sparkles is a classic HDMI cable problem. Replace the cable with a better one.

Not possible ATM, it is run through the ceiling and I'm not planning on ripping holes in the ceiling right now. All of my other devices run completely problem free over that same HDMI connection, only the cable box has issues. Those issues go away if I unplug the HDMI cable from the projector and ground it on my finger and then plug it back in...

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post #7029 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

It is component connection from the cable box to the Denon receiver, and then a component connection from the Denon receiver to the projector. Thus, HDCP is not the issue...

Ah, cable box = possible ground loop on the video circuits (since you ahve two cables to the same device)

Unplug the cable from the cable box and see if you have the problem.


Just something to try.
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post #7030 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

Ah, cable box = possible ground loop on the video circuits (since you ahve two cables to the same device)

Unplug the cable from the cable box and see if you have the problem.


Just something to try.

I only have the component cable coming out of the cable box. The projector has two cables going to it from the Denon AVP though: the component and HDMI cables.

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post #7031 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 02:53 PM
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I think it is some kind of grounding issue, but I'm not sure what options I have to deal with it. Any suggestions?

When I went back to try your suggestion and plugged everything in, it works now without the monitor HDMI TV having to be on. I think it is grounded now, but I'm sure it will unground or a charge will build up again when I turn things on and off at some point...

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post #7032 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

Ah, cable box = possible ground loop on the video circuits (since you ahve two cables to the same device)

Unplug the cable from the cable box and see if you have the problem.


Just something to try.

Yes, I agree, Cable company ground loop. Read more hereInstall a ground loop isolation device on the input cable to the cable box.

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post #7033 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 03:30 PM
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Great thanks.

Do either of you know if there is a solution for ground loop problems over HDMI?

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post #7034 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 04:22 PM
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Did i make a mistake again ? The poa is stable for 4ohm speakers when bridged (so stable in 2ohms). If his speakers go below that on large parts of the freq. range than it can ask too much no?

Or do i mis something again, please correct me.

Daniel.

I don't know for sure, but I thought that bridging should be able to handle lower impedance loads better than passive bi-amping, which is why I said I don't understand.
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post #7035 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

Great thanks.

Do either of you know if there is a solution for ground loop problems over HDMI?


First, try an isolation transformer on the Cable TV feed into your cable box.

The Ferrari solution is this: http://www.jensentransformers.com/datashts/vrd1ff.pdf
But RadioShack also has cheaper versions.

If you want to solve both your long run for HDMI as well as eliminate any grounding questions on that line, then Geffen has this product: http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=7986 that uses fiber for up to 1,000' extension

or this one: http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=3872

Which goes up to 200' over twin Cat5e cables. The Cat5's are opto-isolated which breaks any grounds.

Also look into any amplified HDMI long-run cable that features opto-isolation.
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post #7036 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

I only have the component cable coming out of the cable box. The projector has two cables going to it from the Denon AVP though: the component and HDMI cables.

I am confused too. Why do you have both HDMI and Component from the AVP to the projector? Since all of your sources are fed into the AVP anyway, why not just have the HDMI only go to the projector? It can handle all of the resolutions you need.

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post #7037 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 05:55 PM
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I am confused too. Why do you have both HDMI and Component from the AVP to the projector? Since all of your sources are fed into the AVP anyway, why not just have the HDMI only go to the projector? It can handle all of the resolutions you need.

I'm not entirely sure what his requirements are, but I know that THX recommends keeping the format the same from source to monitor, i.e., {source}>component >{AVP}>component>{monitor}. My own experience bears this out. Component from a source and upconverted in the AVP, then out HDMI to my TV does not look as good as HDMI all the way or component all the way.
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post #7038 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I'm not entirely sure what his requirements are, but I know that THX recommends keeping the format the same from source to monitor, i.e., {source}>component >{AVP}>component>{monitor}. My own experience bears this out. Component from a source and upconverted in the AVP, then out HDMI to my TV does not look as good as HDMI all the way or component all the way.

I have been running component to HDMI via the AVP and it looks good to me.

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post #7039 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 06:50 PM
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I have been running component to HDMI via the AVP and it looks good to me.

I'm not saying it looks bad; I just found that it seem to look a little better without that upconversion. To my eyes, there seemed to be a slight loss of contrast and color saturation with component-to-HDMI upconversion. Could well have been a function of my equipment, so I don't want to over-generalize, but THX does always include that recommendation.
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post #7040 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Aesculus View Post

I am confused too. Why do you have both HDMI and Component from the AVP to the projector? Since all of your sources are fed into the AVP anyway, why not just have the HDMI only go to the projector? It can handle all of the resolutions you need.

Like I said in a previous post, I get noticable line noise on the HDMI line when outputting the cable signal over it. Sadly I'm getting it on the component cables also... So, my only solutions at this point seem to be some kind of grounding, or a different cable/satellite provider.

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post #7041 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

Like I said in a previous post, I get noticable line noise on the HDMI line when outputting the cable signal over it. Sadly I'm getting it on the component cables also... So, my only solutions at this point seem to be some kind of grounding, or a different cable/satellite provider.

Is there a grounding block on the incoming line?
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post #7042 of 26334 Old 10-18-2008, 09:58 PM
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I just watched the Speed Racer blu-ray. I feel like I just spent 2 hours in a pinball machine. I don't know if you guys have seen it, but it's like a Pixar movie, only not nearly as good. I need to take some Dramamine now.

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post #7043 of 26334 Old 10-19-2008, 12:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I just watched the Speed Racer blu-ray. I feel like I just spent 2 hours in a pinball machine. I don't know if you guys have seen it, but it's like a Pixar movie, only not nearly as good. I need to take some Dramamine now.

Interesting that you mention Speed Racer, as I just received it from Netflix. Since your thoughts on movies many times mirror mine, let's see how I fare.


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post #7044 of 26334 Old 10-19-2008, 12:17 AM
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Seth, my amigo, all I'm going to say is, that's 2 hours and 15 minutes of my life I will never get back. I don't want to influence your Speed Racer enjoyment (oxymoron) but it could quite possibly be the worst movie I have seen this year.

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post #7045 of 26334 Old 10-19-2008, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Is there a grounding block on the incoming line?

No. Any recommendations on a cheap, but robust solution for the incoming line? I assume you mean the RG cable that is going into the cablebox?

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post #7046 of 26334 Old 10-19-2008, 04:59 AM
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Guys I have 2 fathoms which are connected to a power conditioner in which also has a built in surge protector. Now today we had a brownout, nothing was powered on beautiful day and guess what they don't even work, everything else plugged in that is the DVD players work fine. I tried different power points everything else fine. $11000 wasted man im very upset how subs of this quality can be affected like this. Is there a reset switch? Any ideas?

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post #7047 of 26334 Old 10-19-2008, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Guys I have 2 fathoms which are connected to a power conditioner in which also has a built in surge protector. Now today we had a brownout, nothing was powered on beautiful day and guess what they don't even work, everything else plugged in that is the DVD players work fine. I tried different power points everything else fine. $11000 wasted man im very upset how subs of this quality can be affected like this. Is there a reset switch? Any ideas?

Sorry to hear that, checked if they have fuses ?

Lots of bad luck going around the last few days...

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post #7048 of 26334 Old 10-19-2008, 05:30 AM
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Sorry to hear that, checked if they have fuses ?

Lots of bad luck going around the last few days...

Daniel.

Daniel, they are sealed. I just can't understand how that can happen. I've tried to google and it seems to me im like the only one to have this problem. Im very annoyed, im still puzzled how this can happen.Everything else works. My focals never had this problem.

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post #7049 of 26334 Old 10-19-2008, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Guys I have 2 fathoms which are connected to a power conditioner in which also has a built in surge protector. Now today we had a brownout, nothing was powered on beautiful day and guess what they don't even work, everything else plugged in that is the DVD players work fine. I tried different power points everything else fine. $11000 wasted man im very upset how subs of this quality can be affected like this. Is there a reset switch? Any ideas?

Frank, did the power conditioner "trip" and requires a reset?

Mark
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post #7050 of 26334 Old 10-19-2008, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Frank, did the power conditioner "trip" and requires a reset?

Mark

I've done a power reset all the other players are working everything else work.I've even tried different power outlets. 2 subs don't work. I tried to google there is literally no info on reset switches, nothing.I tell you im not impressed, I cannot believe how 2 subs died.

there must be someone who knows.

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