Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 03:14 PM
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I've had the Audyssey Pro unlocked and calibrated on my AVR-4308 and it makes a huge improvement....more detail and intelligability, more three-dimensionality with movie soundtracks.
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post #152 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

I've had the Audyssey Pro unlocked and calibrated on my AVR-4308 and it makes a huge improvement....more detail and intelligability, more three-dimensionality with movie soundtracks.

Where are you getting the Audyssey Pro from? My understanding was that it was only available to custom installers and that in order to purchase the kit you had to attend Audyssey's training on how to set it up correctly?

Is there a way to purchase the kit without being a custom installer and attending their training?

I would interested in purchasing the Pro kit if I didn't have to attend the training.
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post #153 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 04:21 PM
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Mitch57 I am sending you a PM! Please check your messages.

gthomas
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post #154 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp View Post

The 3800 isn't worth the extra grand over the 2500 if you have the AVP.

A good interview with Denon's Jeff Talmadge describes the differences very well.
http://www.listenup.com/content/part...b.08.page2.php
The key takeaway for me was that the 2500 is not a particularly good solution for standard DVDs, whereas the 3800 can be a one-player solution with SOTA performance for both SD and HD discs.

I recently spoke with a reviewer who was somewhat disappointed with the 2500 transport. He felt that if they were going to leave off a lot of features, like the entire analog section, it should have been a category-killer in what it does do. He didn't feel it did, so he was looking forward to having a look at the 3800.
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post #155 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch57 View Post

Where are you getting the Audyssey Pro from? My understanding was that it was only available to custom installers and that in order to purchase the kit you had to attend Audyssey's training on how to set it up correctly?

Is there a way to purchase the kit without being a custom installer and attending their training?

I would interested in purchasing the Pro kit if I didn't have to attend the training.

Same here. It's not cheap, but could be worth it if it's really better. I like the idea of being able to re-run it whenever equipment changes might warrant new calibration. My understanding is that, in addition to the Pro kit, you must also buy a "license" for each Audyssey-enabled component you want to run it on. Can anybody confirm that for me?
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post #156 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

A good interview with Denon's Jeff Talmadge describes the differences very well.
http://www.listenup.com/content/part...b.08.page2.php
The key takeaway for me was that the 2500 is not a particularly good solution for standard DVDs, whereas the 3800 can be a one-player solution with SOTA performance for both SD and HD discs.

I recently spoke with a reviewer who was somewhat disappointed with the 2500 transport. He felt that if they were going to leave off a lot of features, like the entire analog section, it should have been a category-killer in what it does do. He didn't feel it did, so he was looking forward to having a look at the 3800.

I don't see how a 2500+AVP is in any way inferior to a 3800 for SD or BR. For SD you set the 2500 to 480i and the AVP Realta does the same processing as the 3800. For BR you set the 2500 to whatever the disc is (1080p60or24, 1080i, etc.).

What would make the 2500 a "category-killer"? P2.0? SACD? DVD-A? We'll have to wait for the 5910 successor for that, and us AVP owners will be stuck buying redundant Realta processing and analog a/v conversion.
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post #157 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp View Post

I don't see how a 2500+AVP is in any way inferior to a 3800 for SD or BR. For SD you set the 2500 to 480i and the AVP Realta does the same processing as the 3800. For BR you set the 2500 to whatever the disc is (1080p60or24, 1080i, etc.).

I was just pointing out what I thought Talmadge saw as the key difference. I don't think there is an assumption in his discussion that the players are being mated with the AVP.

Quote:


What would make the 2500 a "category-killer"? P2.0? SACD? DVD-A? We'll have to wait for the 5910 successor for that, and us AVP owners will be stuck buying redundant Realta processing and analog a/v conversion.

Just the opposite. He was saying that, if Denon meant to pare down the functions to a barebones transport, it should really excel at that. He (this reviewer) felt that it was a pretty average performer in terms of user experience: slow load times, no Source Direct option, etc. He also thought it was suspiciously similar to a much cheaper Panasonic he has also used, and thought it was likely a re-boxing of that unit, since Denon is known (to this reviewer, at least) to not build their own transport.
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post #158 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 05:37 PM
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Yikes, Aug sounds way more than a capacity issue, not to get the conspiracy theories going.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #159 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Hi Seth,MarkB
Talked to the Denon Rep today and was told that the second shipment has been pushed back till August.This news actually came from Denon in Japan. I cannot believe it, another 5 months away.Unfortunatley it's way too long to wait.The rep apologised and was also puzzled by this delay, but he got the call from the head distrubutor in Australia and was told it was out of there hands now, there is really nothing they can do. This has really annoyed me as I wanted the pre so bad but know Im going for the AVC-A1HD and using that as the pre.Very similar in specs and design.I spent all night last night and all day comparing the two so Im quite happy that they are very similar.There is differences like the extra torodial power supply and I guess the xlr traded for the speakers outputs which I wont use.Im sure there is other but running through my Nad M25 power amp I guess it should be fine.You guys have been great,I guess being that it is quite similar in design and specs I can still hang around.I am using it as a pre, but hopefully it all goes well.

Franin,

That's bad news mate as I know how much you were looking forward to getting the Pre. BUT - I may have a solution for you. I did some due diligence with a highly respected Hi-Fi retailer here in Melbourne called "Carlton Audio Visual". I have dealt with them before as has my Brother and they are quite excellent and deal in Hi-End audio. The owner is particularly pleasant to deal with (Rab Turner).

I just spoke to him that very second as I had just made a general enquiry about availability/price. As FATE/LUCK/PURE COINCIDENCE has it he just received 3 SETS OF THE AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD. He advised me by phone that he has ONE for sale (I do not know what the other 2 sets are for but I do know the shop always keeps one for themselves to demonstrate).

Carlton Audio Visuals number is (03)9639-2737 (Melbourne). His original reply to my query follows:

Just come in today, there are three sets in the country, only one is now available for sale with a very long lead time before more come ...

Regards
Rab Turner


As I am not yet ready to purchase I'm more than happy to wait until later in the year but if you get this message in time and Rab is able to sell you this unit hopefully your story will have a happy ending

Cheers

Blade

P.S I also tried to PM you but it says you're not setup to accept them?
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post #160 of 26339 Old 03-19-2008, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

The key takeaway for me was that the 2500 is not a particularly good solution for standard DVDs, whereas the 3800 can be a one-player solution with SOTA performance for both SD and HD discs.

I recently spoke with a reviewer who was somewhat disappointed with the 2500 transport. He felt that if they were going to leave off a lot of features, like the entire analog section, it should have been a category-killer in what it does do. He didn't feel it did, so he was looking forward to having a look at the 3800.


So what's the general consensus for a blu-ray player mated to the AVP? One of the Denons? Or wait for the Panasonic BD50 to be released?

Growing Older But Not Up
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post #161 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

So what's the general consensus for a blu-ray player mated to the AVP? One of the Denons? Or wait for the Panasonic BD50 to be released?

I'm waiting for the Panny 50..not that I plan on using 2.0, but why not have it anyways?

The 50 gives us the ability to compare internal decoding vs Denon and AVP decoding on the lossless audio tracks...should one sound better than the other, you have a choice..

As the AVP has the Realta processing and the 50 has it;s own Panasonic design - I just can't justify the premium on the 3800..

John
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post #162 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

So what's the general consensus for a blu-ray player mated to the AVP? One of the Denons? Or wait for the Panasonic BD50 to be released?

I'm not sure about the general consensus, but for me personally I am waiting for the next generation of BD players from Denon. DenonJeff has hinted at a universal high quality player that will be a great partner to the AVP.

Apart from great video (BD, DVD) i would like to see multichannel SACD and of course great CD replay, possibly with an analogue balanced stereo audio section with stereo XLR outputs and a Pure Direct mode for very high quality stereo playback.

HD-DVD and multichannel DVD-A would be a bonus, but not so important to me because I don't own any HD-DVD discs and only 1 DVD-A disc.
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post #163 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

I'm not sure about the general consensus, but for me personally I am waiting for the next generation of BD players from Denon. DenonJeff has hinted at a universal high quality player that will be a great partner to the AVP.

Apart from great video (BD, DVD) i would like to see multichannel SACD and of course great CD replay, possibly with an analogue balanced stereo audio section with stereo XLR outputs and a Pure Direct mode for very high quality stereo playback.

HD-DVD and multichannel DVD-A would be a bonus, but not so important to me because I don't own any HD-DVD discs and only 1 DVD-A disc.

Why...Doesn't your AVP's sound satisfy you enough? Could you share with us your impressions on the AVP sound?
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post #164 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Why...Doesn't your AVP's sound satisfy you enough?

He, like me and a few others would like a "one player" solution, I'd like the option of SACD, DVD-A, BD, DVD, and HD-DVD would be nice too since I plan to collect as many as possible (they are cheap)

I really don't have a lot of room in my salamander for HDDVD, BD, SACD/DVD-A that's three different players and to me very unnecessary. Denon is going to come out with one but at the implied price I'm really on the fence the only thing that would push me over the fence would be HDDVD included with all the mentioned specs.

For now if the 2500BT comes in by tomorrow I will grab it and I'm decided on whether spending 1500 MSRP for 3930CI to play SACD/DVD-A will be worth it, I have XA2 for DVD upconvert. I guess the answer will be more simple if the 2500BT does not come in tomorrow I'll be using PS3 for bluray movies (which I only own CARS right now) I've found BD movies way more expensive than HDDVD and this might keep up for many months. Going to start collecting HDDVD until BD prices come down and a real nice player comes out.
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post #165 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

So what's the general consensus for a blu-ray player mated to the AVP? One of the Denons? Or wait for the Panasonic BD50 to be released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Maniac View Post

I'm waiting for the Panny 50..not that I plan on using 2.0, but why not have it anyways?

The 50 gives us the ability to compare internal decoding vs Denon and AVP decoding on the lossless audio tracks...should one sound better than the other, you have a choice..

As the AVP has the Realta processing and the 50 has it;s own Panasonic design - I just can't justify the premium on the 3800..

MC/Waboman,

I just picked up the Panny BD30 since I don't care about the Internet functions that a profile 2.0 player will have. The BD30 Bitstreams all the codecs (including DTS-Ma and TruHD) to the AVP. The AVP decodes and plays them woithout issue. It sounds great.

I thik the BD30 is the best/cheapest match for the AVP right now. If you don't mind waiting ~2 months, the BD50 would be the best/cheapest bet.

Note: By Best/Cheapest, I mena it is the cheapest player that can play all the new codecs, and has no major bugs.

Darrell
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post #166 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentium7 View Post

He, like me and a few others would like a "one player" solution, I'd like the option of SACD, DVD-A, BD, DVD, and HD-DVD would be nice too since I plan to collect as many as possible (they are cheap)

I really don't have a lot of room in my salamander for HDDVD, BD, SACD/DVD-A that's three different players and to me very unnecessary. Denon is going to come out with one but at the implied price I'm really on the fence the only thing that would push me over the fence would be HDDVD included with all the mentioned specs.

I agree completely, I would love a machine do it all. What I meant is that MarkB mentioned a player having XLR analog outs, implying, to my understanding, that there is more to what the AVP can do in regards to hi-end reproduction of music. I hope I misunderstood him, as i am receiving my own AVP in a couple of days and I am expecting quality performance from it.
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post #167 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeRnR View Post

Franin,

That's bad news mate as I know how much you were looking forward to getting the Pre. BUT - I may have a solution for you. I did some due diligence with a highly respected Hi-Fi retailer here in Melbourne called "Carlton Audio Visual". I have dealt with them before as has my Brother and they are quite excellent and deal in Hi-End audio. The owner is particularly pleasant to deal with (Rab Turner).

I just spoke to him that very second as I had just made a general enquiry about availability/price. As FATE/LUCK/PURE COINCIDENCE has it he just received 3 SETS OF THE AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD. He advised me by phone that he has ONE for sale (I do not know what the other 2 sets are for but I do know the shop always keeps one for themselves to demonstrate).

Carlton Audio Visuals number is (03)9639-2737 (Melbourne). His original reply to my query follows:

Just come in today, there are three sets in the country, only one is now available for sale with a very long lead time before more come ...

Regards
Rab Turner


As I am not yet ready to purchase I'm more than happy to wait until later in the year but if you get this message in time and Rab is able to sell you this unit hopefully your story will have a happy ending

Cheers

Blade

P.S I also tried to PM you but it says you're not setup to accept them?

hi franin, I know Rab turner and have dealt with cav for a lot of years ! as far back as can remember ..highly recommend them.

as per their webpage says the avp has landed !

http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/

And if he has one franin I'd grab it. your dealer you been dealing with should understand I'm sure. this way youd have one now ! as you deserve !

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."


Welcome to my lounge room :)
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post #168 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSonics View Post

MC,

I just picked up the Panny BD30 since I don't care about the Internet functions that a profile 2.0 player will have. The BD30 Bitstreams all the codecs (including DTS-Ma and TruHD) to the AVP. The AVP decodes and plays them woithout issue. It sounds great.

I thik the BD30 is the best/cheapest match for the AVP right now. If you don't mind waiting ~2 months, the BD50 would be the best/cheapest bet.

Note: By Best/Cheapest, I mena it is the cheapest player that can play all the new codecs, and has no major bugs.

Darrell

Does the BD30 work well with CDs?
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post #169 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 08:23 AM
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Yes the BD30 works well with CD and with SD movies. It is a good match with the AVP A1 HD. It's what I'm using now and have no intentions of changing soon.

gthomas
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post #170 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Does the BD30 work well with CDs?

Since I play most of my CDs of the Network (Flac files), I don't play CDs much. When I do, I have been using my Denon3930.

I will try to make time to test the BD30 vs the Denon vs Network this weekend, and report back.

Darrell
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post #171 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post


And if he has one franin I'd grab it. your dealer you been dealing with should understand I'm sure. this way youd have one now ! as you deserve !

He sounds like a great dealer Al ; wasnt going to say anything as Franin has the master series amp ;but if he's willing to break up the pre/power combo he has for sale all the better
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post #172 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GoodSonics View Post

Since I play most of my CDs of the Network (Flac files), I don't play CDs much. When I do, I have been using my Denon3930.

I will try to make time to test the BD30 vs the Denon vs Network this weekend, and report back.

Darrell

Your input would be greatly appreciated. I already have a dedicated CD player but I am trying to simplify things in my "living room".
thanks
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post #173 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch57 View Post

Where are you getting the Audyssey Pro from? My understanding was that it was only available to custom installers and that in order to purchase the kit you had to attend Audyssey's training on how to set it up correctly?

Is there a way to purchase the kit without being a custom installer and attending their training?

I would interested in purchasing the Pro kit if I didn't have to attend the training.

I didn't say I got the kit or did the calibration myself. I had it done by my dealer who took the training course and purchased the calibration kit. It was part of a package deal when I bought the 4308.
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post #174 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

So what's the general consensus for a blu-ray player mated to the AVP? One of the Denons? Or wait for the Panasonic BD50 to be released?

I don't know how well built the Panasonic BD50 will be, but I'm sure it won't compare to the Denon. It also strikes me as odd that someone who has a Pre/Pro that's $7K would be considering matching it with a middle-of-the-road Blu-ray player. Here's a link to a site that is devoted to the Denon Blu-ray players: http://www.usa.denon.com/beyond/index2.html
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post #175 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 09:59 AM
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I don't think there is a best one-player solution yet. I use a Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD for Blu-Rays, and aside from slow load times, it's great. Beautiful picture, and it can output all the audio formats as either bitstream or decode and send LPCM. But for SD DVDs, we usually go to the HD player or my older Sony ES DVD player. They're simply more convenient due to the faster load times.

I do think, though I haven't thoroughly tested this yet, that the AVP should be a great equalizer. If it's better at upscaling SD DVDs than any of the other units, and at video processing in general, that feature becomes irrelevant in the player. If it's better for decoding all audio, then that feature becomes irrelevant (and redundant) in the player. I too listen to my music via networked flac files, so the AVP is already handling PCM decoding there and I can't speak to CD transport performance with it. If the AVP is best at decoding everything, the player itself becomes mostly about build quality and convenience, no?
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post #176 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

I don't know how well built the Panasonic BD50 will be, but I'm sure it won't compare to the Denon. It also strikes me as odd that someone who has a Pre/Pro that's $7K would be considering matching it with a middle-of-the-road Blu-ray player. Here's a link to a site that is devoted to the Denon Blu-ray players: http://www.usa.denon.com/beyond/index2.html


Waboman is just asking the question that many of us are. We seem to feel the 2500BT & BD30 are the same unit, however one of them has a firmware fix already and the other is pending. In fairness the BD30 has been out longer. Build quality? There is 1 yr warranty on these things unlike AVP which is 3 yrs.

Yes the 2500 is built like a tank 27LB I think? Panny is much slimmer and lighter but if the PQ and Audio are equal does that really matter? I'm willing to bet a lot of people want an inexpensive player (for now) until 6-12 months passes when a universal Denon comes out that does everything we want.
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post #177 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete View Post

I don't know how well built the Panasonic BD50 will be, but I'm sure it won't compare to the Denon. It also strikes me as odd that someone who has a Pre/Pro that's $7K would be considering matching it with a middle-of-the-road Blu-ray player. Here's a link to a site that is devoted to the Denon Blu-ray players: http://www.usa.denon.com/beyond/index2.html

Pete,

I just had an interesting conversation with the DVD reviewer for one of the A/V webzines. He recently had a look at the Denon 2500 and came away somewhat disappointed, as I mentioned in an earlier post. He thought it seemed to have suspiciously similar guts and performance to the Panasonic, and since Denon doesn't build this player themselves, he thought is was probably a reboxed version of that unit. He wasn't saying that it was a bad player, by any means, but that it was kind of average compared to his expectation that Denon's dedicated transport would really excel at the more limited functions for which it was designed.
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post #178 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 10:38 AM
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[quote=Pete;13427861] It also strikes me as odd that someone who has a Pre/Pro that's $7K would be considering matching it with a middle-of-the-road Blu-ray player. [quote]


Just trying to make an informed decision. I do appreciate your concern though.

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post #179 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 10:39 AM
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[quote=pentium7;13427919]Waboman is just asking the question that many of us are.QUOTE]


Exactly.

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post #180 of 26339 Old 03-20-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

I don't know how well built the Panasonic BD50 will be, but I'm sure it won't compare to the Denon. It also strikes me as odd that someone who has a Pre/Pro that's $7K would be considering matching it with a middle-of-the-road Blu-ray player. Here's a link to a site that is devoted to the Denon Blu-ray players: http://www.usa.denon.com/beyond/index2.html

I know you mentioned the BD50, but the BD30 shares the same internals with the Denon 2500. No, the Panny box isn't as study as the Denon, but then again, I rarely play Rugby with my equipment. It sits on a study shelf day after day.

If someone can point out a SQ or PQ difference then I would agree. I don't want a nice Prepro and only so-so SQ or PQ. Since the two players internals are the same, I don't think we will see anyone making such a claim.

Darrell
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