Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 682 - AVS Forum
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post #20431 of 26371 Old 08-29-2011, 09:28 AM
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If anyone else is as anal as I am, here is a link to an EXCEL spreadsheet where you can keep track of your AVP settings. It has some drop down menus and it is "pretty cool" (thus sayeth Hanna Montana).

http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/2...07g%3D%3D19255

This is courtesy of http://avppoaowners.wetpaint.com/page/Setup

I have my settings on 3x5 cards now but with the upcoming upgrade, I might do the Excel thing and also take a bunch of screen shots to make sure I get it back to where it is now. I'm sure some of the menus will change with the new update but at least I'll have a starting point instead of doing it all over from scratch. Will also have something to compare to.
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post #20432 of 26371 Old 08-29-2011, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

With two subs, and assuming your mains are crossed-over to them, the benefit of passive bi-amping is even less significant, so pretty much a waste of wire really.
You can bridge channels to get more power, but the question is do you "need" to? Your room, speakers, and their distances to the listening position will dictate the answer to that.

Surround channels don't use much power at all, so maybe keeping the RDA-7 and picking up a modest five or seven channel amp for those might be the ticket. Something like a used Anthem PVA 5 or 7 would be what I'd hunt for.

Still from my experience there can be a drawback using big power to some channels and not to the others.
I got my KWA150SE in bridge mode that makes 450w @8ohms (manufacturer rates). Then the RDA7, said to be 7x150w but measured between 170 to 188w. I ran the Audyssey Pro but got -12db for the main front channels and that is not good as the auto-calibration cannot go beyond the -12 nor above + 12db. In order to solve that problem I wired up my good old Audiocontrol spectrum analyser and setted all channel up to 80db SPL.
So beware when using different amps and different speakers (my case).
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post #20433 of 26371 Old 08-29-2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tangcoma View Post

Thx for your suggestion ! So I will keep my RDA 7.1 and just wait for the AVP upgraded !

As you can see we all have ideas , For me it only makes sense to even considering bi-amping the 3 fronts that take the most power. The reason why the 10 channels on the POA are so nice is that most will go for a 7.x setup use 6 amps for the fronts and 4 for the surrounds. This is why your question is not a easy one and why i (if you like your current amp) look for more of the same model/brand. Unless you want to get 1 POA you might run into troubles outlined by jackox.

Let us know what your plans are, i am interested where you end up .

Getting 11 mono amps to me is overkill in space, a multichannel amp's best feature is its 'relative' small size even if we talk POA its SMALL per amp

Daniel.

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post #20434 of 26371 Old 08-29-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackox View Post

Still from my experience there can be a drawback using big power to some channels and not to the others.
I got my KWA150SE in bridge mode that makes 450w @8ohms (manufacturer rates). Then the RDA7, said to be 7x150w but measured between 170 to 188w. I ran the Audyssey Pro but got -12db for the main front channels and that is not good as the auto-calibration cannot go beyond the -12 nor above + 12db. In order to solve that problem I wired up my good old Audiocontrol spectrum analyser and setted all channel up to 80db SPL.
So beware when using different amps and different speakers (my case).

I don't think that the -12db would be just from amplifier gain difference, or watts. I'd suspect some boundary gain or a speaker efficiency difference is in play.
My mains are powered at 500w/ch and my surrounds at 125/w channel and the only problem I had with anything getting cut to -12db were my IB subs powered at 250w. Obviously the most efficient of the bunch, but also they were on-wall under my screen so just like being corner loaded..
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post #20435 of 26371 Old 08-29-2011, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

I don't think that the -12db would be just from amplifier gain difference, or watts. I'd suspect some boundary gain or a speaker efficiency difference is in play.
My mains are powered at 500w/ch and my surrounds at 125/w channel and the only problem I had with anything getting cut to -12db were my IB subs powered at 250w. Obviously the most efficient of the bunch, but also they were on-wall under my screen so just like being corner loaded..

Of course its amp + speaker.
Before I had my two KWA150SE I had only one KWA150 I used in stereo.
In that setting the amp is rated at 150w and I had -9 db for the front speakers which worked perfect.

The problem with the AVP Audyssey is that it needs to lock on 75db so the DynamicEQ and DynamicV would work properly. The auto-calibration process cannot solve beyond -12db situation and then you do not know if that is correct or if the true level would be -13 or lower. Correcting that in manual is possible, but then you need to change the reference to let say 80db. All speaker level setting must be adjusted again, done properly it does not affect DynamicEQ or V efficiency.
Done it and it work like a charm, I am so glad I kept my spectrum analyser !

The change for two KWA150SE aimed at improving the sonics for stereo use, CD or SACD. It did perfect as the 803Di need power, like most B&W speakers actually.
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post #20436 of 26371 Old 08-29-2011, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post


As you can see we all have ideas , For me it only makes sense to even considering bi-amping the 3 fronts that take the most power. The reason why the 10 channels on the POA are so nice is that most will go for a 7.x setup use 6 amps for the fronts and 4 for the surrounds. This is why your question is not a easy one and why i (if you like your current amp) look for more of the same model/brand. Unless you want to get 1 POA you might run into troubles outlined by jackox.

Let us know what your plans are, i am interested where you end up .

Getting 11 mono amps to me is overkill in space, a multichannel amp's best feature is its 'relative' small size even if we talk POA its SMALL per amp

Daniel.

That's my setup with my AVP/POA. I have my KEF Reference 3 front speakers bi-amped and use the other 4 channels to drive the surrounds. SJ
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post #20437 of 26371 Old 08-29-2011, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackox View Post

Of course its amp + speaker.
Before I had my two KWA150SE I had only one KWA150 I used in stereo.
In that setting the amp is rated at 150w and I had -9 db for the front speakers which worked perfect..

I missed the bridged part, I've never had an amp you could bridge, so I guess you must increase gain by doing so...

I'm familiar with the 12db limits of Audyssey and had to deal with it myself with the IB subs. But it's not a bad idea to point that out for those that aren't.
It's way more common with subs because most have variable gain.
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post #20438 of 26371 Old 08-30-2011, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

I missed the bridged part, I've never had an amp you could bridge, so I guess you must increase gain by doing so...

I'm familiar with the 12db limits of Audyssey and had to deal with it myself with the IB subs. But it's not a bad idea to point that out for those that aren't.
It's way more common with subs because most have variable gain.

Absolutely right !

I also had a -12db problem with my JBL Tik sub.
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post #20439 of 26371 Old 08-30-2011, 06:28 AM
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pay$500-600 more and so it with xpa-2 in 11channels if you want to bi-amp that much, just saying!!


gives you 500-1000w per channel to play with
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post #20440 of 26371 Old 08-31-2011, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

If anyone else is as anal as I am, here is a link to an EXCEL spreadsheet where you can keep track of your AVP settings. It has some drop down menus and it is "pretty cool" (thus sayeth Hanna Montana).

http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/2...07g%3D%3D19255

This is courtesy of http://avppoaowners.wetpaint.com/page/Setup

I have my settings on 3x5 cards now but with the upcoming upgrade, I might do the Excel thing and also take a bunch of screen shots to make sure I get it back to where it is now. I'm sure some of the menus will change with the new update but at least I'll have a starting point instead of doing it all over from scratch. Will also have something to compare to.

hi willy, thats fantastic, was just wondering what to do in prep for the upgrade and something like this is excellent

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."



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post #20441 of 26371 Old 08-31-2011, 03:15 AM
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Hi guys, it's been a while since I have posted here and my avp is going fine.I have only just switched my source ps3 to bitstream and found that the sound is much louder than PCM does this sound right to you guys or is it just my ears playing tricks on me.I noticed I had to adjust my mains left and right up to +1db.since switching to bitstream I have noticed a big difference in my sub which is also deeper. I have had this unit for a year now and is the first time I am hearing this unit through bitstream audio. I am blown away looking forward to the upgrade.

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post #20442 of 26371 Old 08-31-2011, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by grassy View Post

Hi guys, it's been a while since I have posted here and my avp is going fine.I have only just switched my source ps3 to bitstream and found that the sound is much louder than PCM does this sound right to you guys or is it just my ears playing tricks on me.I noticed I had to adjust my mains left and right up to +1db.since switching to bitstream I have noticed a big difference in my sub which is also deeper. I have had this unit for a year now and is the first time I am hearing this unit through bitstream audio. I am blown away looking forward to the upgrade.

thats a ps3 issue grassy, and very good to have switched to bitstream, way to go good to hear the avp is still a treat

ps if been a while since posting, should bring your attention to the big 3D update heading our way ! woohoo !

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post #20443 of 26371 Old 08-31-2011, 03:43 PM
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Hi al, I have filled out an application form and faxed it to audio products group and am waiting for a phone call to let me know when I can take the avp in. I will definitely be taking it down personally and then picking it up the next day and bringing it home. I am pretty rapt with the unit at the moment. There is no product I have ever owned that has pleased me more than this avp. It's the real deal. I also took a page out of your book and got myself a new dd15+ sub and when hooked up to the avp they make a fine pair. I am still using the vsxax10 as my amp and it is doing a very good job as it has plenty of power. Still saving for the poa. I feel an inheritance coming on so I think I,ll have that soon.

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post #20444 of 26371 Old 09-01-2011, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grassy View Post

Hi al, I have filled out an application form and faxed it to audio products group and am waiting for a phone call to let me know when I can take the avp in. I will definitely be taking it down personally and then picking it up the next day and bringing it home. I am pretty rapt with the unit at the moment. There is no product I have ever owned that has pleased me more than this avp. It's the real deal. I also took a page out of your book and got myself a new dd15+ sub and when hooked up to the avp they make a fine pair. I am still using the vsxax10 as my amp and it is doing a very good job as it has plenty of power. Still saving for the poa. I feel an inheritance coming on so I think I,ll have that soon.

fantastic grassy ! good to hear, and the dd15 is a beauty so can imagine pretty pleased. good luck re the POA

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post #20445 of 26371 Old 09-01-2011, 10:04 AM
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Anyone out there running a tube type phono preamp through the AVP? I just bought a Rega P9 and a Fosgate tube stage and I am hearing a sort of static clicking sound when I turn the volume up or down. It does it with both the remote control and the knob on the AVP.

It only does it with the needle on the record. I am running in pure direct analog mode.

This is my first heavy-duty tube stage and I am wondering if what I am hearing is simply tube noise as the gain increases/decreases or if I have a problem somewhere.

It isn't very loud but I can definitely hear it and do not remember having it there before the TT and phono stage upgrade.

Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.
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post #20446 of 26371 Old 09-01-2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

Anyone out there running a tube type phono preamp through the AVP? I just bought a Rega P9 and a Fosgate tube stage and I am hearing a sort of static clicking sound when I turn the volume up or down. It does it with both the remote control and the knob on the AVP.

It only does it with the needle on the record. I am running in pure direct analog mode.

This is my first heavy-duty tube stage and I am wondering if what I am hearing is simply tube noise as the gain increases/decreases or if I have a problem somewhere.

It isn't very loud but I can definitely hear it and do not remember having it there before the TT and phono stage upgrade.

Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

Try a different input. Use or disconnect the ground on your phono cable depending on which way you are now. Try a different power recepticle. Float the ground on the plug of the phono stage.

If none of these work, call for an airstrike!
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post #20447 of 26371 Old 09-01-2011, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by egrady View Post

Try a different input. Use or disconnect the ground on your phono cable depending on which way you are now. Try a different power recepticle. Float the ground on the plug of the phono stage.

If none of these work, call for an airstrike!

Airstrike ordered but may recall it.

I was told that a ground or electrical supply issue would be more of a hum sound most all the time rather than just a static clicking when the volume is adjusted but I'm willin' to try anything to see if it works.

TT is internally grounded (as are all Rega's) so nothing I can do there. I had a ground loop with the phono stage and am using a cheater plug. Hadn't thought to switch electrical outlets - may try that next and may try to switch power cords too.

Thanks.
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post #20448 of 26371 Old 09-01-2011, 06:31 PM
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As a follow-up, I have been trying to troubleshoot this thing and I found that the static or clicking sound virtually goes away when I turn Audyssey to OFF. Is this weird or what?

Anyone have any insight to what is going on here?

EDIT: It occurred to me this might be DYNAMIC VOLUME at work and there might be something with the gain of the preamp and Dynamic Volume interacting somehow. Don't have time to tonight to look into that further but will get to it tomorrow night or over weekend. But if anyone has some other ideas, please let me know. At least I think I have it narrowed down.
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post #20449 of 26371 Old 09-02-2011, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

As a follow-up, I have been trying to troubleshoot this thing and I found that the static or clicking sound virtually goes away when I turn Audyssey to OFF. Is this weird or what?

Anyone have any insight to what is going on here?

EDIT: It occurred to me this might be DYNAMIC VOLUME at work and there might be something with the gain of the preamp and Dynamic Volume interacting somehow. Don't have time to tonight to look into that further but will get to it tomorrow night or over weekend. But if anyone has some other ideas, please let me know. At least I think I have it narrowed down.

hey willy you definitely dont want to be using dynamic volume with your TT ! turn that off

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post #20450 of 26371 Old 09-02-2011, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

As a follow-up, I have been trying to troubleshoot this thing and I found that the static or clicking sound virtually goes away when I turn Audyssey to OFF. Is this weird or what?

Anyone have any insight to what is going on here?

EDIT: It occurred to me this might be DYNAMIC VOLUME at work and there might be something with the gain of the preamp and Dynamic Volume interacting somehow. Don't have time to tonight to look into that further but will get to it tomorrow night or over weekend. But if anyone has some other ideas, please let me know. At least I think I have it narrowed down.

Dynamic volume should never be used with music, Unless someone found a good use in that case. It can be nice for movies/tv. Dynamic EQ and XT are fine and at least for me most of the time a plus on music.

It also explains maybe the little clicks since dynamic volume well changes the volume on the fly and you might be hearing that on soft parts of the music.

Daniel.

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post #20451 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 08:34 AM
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I played with this more last night and this morning. It wasn't DYNAMIC VOLUME (am not using that) but Dynamic EQ that was ON and it definitely was adding to the noise/static/clicking when the volume was changed. Turning DYNAMIC EQ OFF, I can now only hear the clicking during dead quiet passages with the volume turned up pretty high but even then, it is a very light sound.

I put my old Pro Ject Tube box (only 2 tubes) back in place, and did not hear it at all so it probably is something in the Fosgate: Either all those tubes magnifying something, interference or perhaps one or two of the tubes are making a slight grainy noise for every volume tick up or down.

I can live with it now as it has been greatly reduced by turning Dynamic EQ off but I will probably do some tube rolling in the near future to see if has any affect. Someone also suggested relocating the Fosgate tube stage but I really can't move it. I may try some shielding just to see if it might be an interference issue.

I would be interested to hear from any other AVP owners that are running tube gear through the AVP to see if they can reproduce the clicking. Best way to check is at the end of an LP by either rotating the volume knob up/down or use the remote control. You would hear a slight clicking noise for every volume increment change. I have to get it up above -29 to hear it on my rig.
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post #20452 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

I played with this more last night and this morning. It wasn't DYNAMIC VOLUME (am not using that) but Dynamic EQ that was ON and it definitely was adding to the noise/static/clicking when the volume was changed. Turning DYNAMIC EQ OFF, I can now only hear the clicking during dead quiet passages with the volume turned up pretty high but even then, it is a very light sound.

I put my old Pro Ject Tube box (only 2 tubes) back in place, and did not hear it at all so it probably is something in the Fosgate: Either all those tubes magnifying something, interference or perhaps one or two of the tubes are making a slight grainy noise for every volume tick up or down.

I can live with it now as it has been greatly reduced by turning Dynamic EQ off but I will probably do some tube rolling in the near future to see if has any affect. Someone also suggested relocating the Fosgate tube stage but I really can't move it. I may try some shielding just to see if it might be an interference issue.

I would be interested to hear from any other AVP owners that are running tube gear through the AVP to see if they can reproduce the clicking. Best way to check is at the end of an LP by either rotating the volume knob up/down or use the remote control. You would hear a slight clicking noise for every volume increment change. I have to get it up above -29 to hear it on my rig.

Ok makes more sense now, Still kind of weird that it seems over analog in it does this for you. Just to be clear it only happens if you change volume ? If so why is this a big deal even with dynamic eq on ? If it happens all the time then we need to get to the bottom of this never heard someone claiming this in the last 3 years on the thread. I can see on volume changes that dynamic eq would 'refocus' since the amount of 'loudness' it adds depends on volume of the input.

Daniel.

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post #20453 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 11:55 AM
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Can the AVP stream video? I have no trouble streaming audio but don't see a place for that.
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post #20454 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 01:46 PM
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hi willy, thats fantastic, was just wondering what to do in prep for the upgrade and something like this is excellent

Glad to see others benefit from that. I sure have leveraged it since I first created it.

Jonathan


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post #20455 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 02:02 PM
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For those of you doing DVD-A audio rips and sending multichannel audio (ripped, downloaded, purchased or otherwise), please note that that the AVP does NOT apply speaker distance delays to the multichannel PCM HDMI audio streams.

I have many beloved DVD-A rips I play back via FooBar2000 over HDMI to my AVP, and something did not quite seem right compared to my Denon 2930 feeding the AVP via DenonLink.

Turns out the speaker distance delays are applied by the 2930.

So, to fix that, here's the quick recipe:

Add to FooBar2000:
VST adapter plugin for FB2K
Add the Voxengo Delay plugin (free) http://www.voxengo.com/product/sounddelay/

Configure the Voxengo Delay plugin for 5.1, and set the delay parameters according to your setup (assuming 0 delay for center channel).

Make sure you save that as a DSP preset in FB2K, as it only should be used on multichannel tracks.

BTW- I have a solution involving other FB2K plugins that enable decoding Ambisonic recordings, do I no longer miss that aspect of my Meridian preamp.
One does wind up with a very complex FB2K setup after all this. But anyone really into FB2K and the AVP is into complexity anyway

Sound quality is the ultimate goal, everything else is just a speed bump.

Jonathan


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post #20456 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post
I played with this more last night and this morning. It wasn't DYNAMIC VOLUME (am not using that) but Dynamic EQ that was ON and it definitely was adding to the noise/static/clicking when the volume was changed. Turning DYNAMIC EQ OFF, I can now only hear the clicking during dead quiet passages with the volume turned up pretty high but even then, it is a very light sound.

I put my old Pro Ject Tube box (only 2 tubes) back in place, and did not hear it at all so it probably is something in the Fosgate: Either all those tubes magnifying something, interference or perhaps one or two of the tubes are making a slight grainy noise for every volume tick up or down.

I can live with it now as it has been greatly reduced by turning Dynamic EQ off but I will probably do some tube rolling in the near future to see if has any affect. Someone also suggested relocating the Fosgate tube stage but I really can't move it. I may try some shielding just to see if it might be an interference issue.

I would be interested to hear from any other AVP owners that are running tube gear through the AVP to see if they can reproduce the clicking. Best way to check is at the end of an LP by either rotating the volume knob up/down or use the remote control. You would hear a slight clicking noise for every volume increment change. I have to get it up above -29 to hear it on my rig.
very strange on the fosgate and not on the project tube pre. my only guess is dynamic eq is just boosting something in the noise floor

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post #20457 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 08:19 PM
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Can the AVP stream video? I have no trouble streaming audio but don't see a place for that.
I just use an appletv with my avp hooked in via hdmi and it works a treat for audio/video/photos. basically anything you can synch in through itunes

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post #20458 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 09:00 PM
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I just use an appletv with my avp hooked in via hdmi and it works a treat for audio/video/photos. basically anything you can synch in through itunes
Hey Al.

If I were going to buy an AppleTV which do you recommend? The old AppleTV 160GB or the new AppleTV 2? I thought I recall reading somewhere that the older AppleTV is preferred. But I may be mistaken.

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post #20459 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 09:11 PM
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Hey Al.

If I were going to buy an AppleTV which do you recommend? The old AppleTV 160GB or the new AppleTV 2? I thought I recall reading somewhere that the older AppleTV is preferred. But I may be mistaken.
The older ATV has two distinct advantages (IMHO).

1) It handles 44.1 PCM without sample rate conversion. The data is the same as playing the original CD, and works for any DTS CDs, too. The new ATV applies sample rate conversion to output them at 48 kHz.

2) It has the HDD built in, so no need to have a separate source running, like a PC, to serve the files.

Roger

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post #20460 of 26371 Old 09-03-2011, 09:29 PM
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The older ATV has two distinct advantages (IMHO).

1) It handles 44.1 PCM without sample rate conversion. The data is the same as playing the original CD, and works for any DTS CDs, too. The new ATV applies sample rate conversion to output them at 48 kHz.

2) It has the HDD built in, so no need to have a separate source running, like a PC, to serve the files.
Thanks Roger.

I'm searching eBay as I type this for a 1st gen AppleTV.

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