Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 734 - AVS Forum
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post #21991 of 26265 Old 02-22-2012, 07:50 AM
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^^
Although "ethernet over HDMI" is a feature of HDMI 1.4 (and therefore 1.4a as well), AFAIK none of the AV mfr's have implemented the feature in their current AVRs.

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post #21992 of 26265 Old 02-22-2012, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Unfortunatley, just having HDMI 1.4 doesn't guarantee 4K support (see the FAQ). In their infinite wisdom in trying to confuse everyone as much as possible, many of the new features added to HDMI 1.4 are optional.

That reads like it should be there, and if not, that it's a software implemented feature rather than requiring hardware..
Maybe it requires extra licensing costs to enable..so a potential "pay-per" upgrade down the road if it doesn't already have the capability?
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post #21993 of 26265 Old 02-22-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmanny3 View Post

It was listed in the upgrade manual as HDMI 1.4a to process 3D. I thought HDMI 1.4 was good for ethernet as well as high def signal. So not sure about 1.4a

It is confusing but my understanding is that manuf's don't have to implement every facet of the specification. They could only have 3D or they could only have ethernet but not necessarily both.
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post #21994 of 26265 Old 02-22-2012, 08:25 AM
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From the FAQ I linked to:

Quote:


Are manufacturers required to implement all of the new HDMI 1.4 features?

No. HDMI technology is designed to enable a wide variety of manufacturers in different markets to implement the feature sets that work best for their customers.

The mention of HDMI 1.4 doesn't guarantee any specific features will be there. There are 2 factors at play here - whether the HDMI chipset that's being used is capable of supporting the desired feature (4K, in this case) and whether the manufacturer decided to implement / include that feature. Unless someone can get a definitive answer from Denon, we won't know if 4K is supported until someone has a 4K source and display to try it with. Even if we get a "definitive" answer from Denon, I'm inclined to think we won't know for sure until someone can actually test it .
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post #21995 of 26265 Old 02-22-2012, 05:15 PM
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I remember reading hdmi 1.4, and also reading 3D pass thru in two different AVP upgrade notices that Denon published. To me, 3D pass thru and hdmi 1.4 aren't the same, and shouldn't be used interchangeably. Or am I wrong? The HDMI 1.4 and its 4K capability is what's got me contemplating the AVP upgrade. I think that I will contact Denon regarding this.
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post #21996 of 26265 Old 02-22-2012, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frahengeo View Post

I remember reading hdmi 1.4, and also reading 3D pass thru in two different AVP upgrade notices that Denon published. To me, 3D pass thru and hdmi 1.4 aren't the same, and shouldn't be used interchangeably. Or am I wrong? The HDMI 1.4 and its 4K capability is what's got me contemplating the AVP upgrade. I think that I will contact Denon regarding this.

Any of 3D, 4K resolution, ethernet channel, audio return channel, and expanded support for color spaces support means the device has HDMI 1.4, but the reverse isn't true - HDMI 1.4 DOES NOT MEAN that any or all of those features are supported. I certainly haven't read the entire spec, but I suspect that 3D passthru is an acceptable way to support 3D and still claim HDMI 1.4.

I would think that if 4K support were included that Denon would have included this in the list of features as it would obviously be a selling point.
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post #21997 of 26265 Old 02-23-2012, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frahengeo View Post

I remember reading hdmi 1.4, and also reading 3D pass thru in two different AVP upgrade notices that Denon published. To me, 3D pass thru and hdmi 1.4 aren't the same, and shouldn't be used interchangeably. Or am I wrong? The HDMI 1.4 and its 4K capability is what's got me contemplating the AVP upgrade. I think that I will contact Denon regarding this.

So I spoke with a Denon CSR here in the U.S., and he confirmed with his Manager...the upgrade does NOT include hdmi 1.4a. Somewhat disappointing and unsettling as I recalled seeing it listed in the modified manual
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post #21998 of 26265 Old 02-23-2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frahengeo View Post

So I spoke with a Denon CSR here in the U.S., and he confirmed with his Manager...the upgrade does NOT include hdmi 1.4a. Somewhat disappointing and unsettling as I recalled seeing it listed in the modified manual

From the Upgrade manual:

Quote:


This unit supports input and output of 3D (3 dimensional) video signals of HDMI 1.4a.

I'd trust Denon Japan engineers who compile the manual vs. some CSR who has to "ask his manager".
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post #21999 of 26265 Old 02-23-2012, 08:14 AM
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Guys, since what we actually care about are optional features, HDMI 1.4a (or not) is irrelevant. What MATTERS here is what FEATURES are included in the product. I'd really be shocked if we got 4K support (even as passthru) as part of the upgrade and I think we should count ourselves lucky that they decided to do an upgrade at all, and that what they put in the upgrade is well worth what they're charging (in the USA, at least as the upgrade is more expensive in some parts of the world). Also keep in mind that effective in January of this year (link), products aren't allowed to mention HDMI version numbers - they're just supposed to list the features that are included in the product.
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post #22000 of 26265 Old 02-23-2012, 08:56 AM
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Good point, gsr.
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post #22001 of 26265 Old 02-23-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

From the Upgrade manual:

I'd trust Denon Japan engineers who compile the manual vs. some CSR who has to "ask his manager".

HDMI 1.4a is still listed on Denon Japan's website, but not the US. I guess that explains GSR's point.

GSR, I don't mean to rain on everyone's parade who got the upgrade. If I seem to come across that way, I apologize. Regarding hdmi 1.4 vs. 4K, I felt that if the HDMI portion had been upgraded, it could mean that the necessary bandwidth would be there for 4K in the future.
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post #22002 of 26265 Old 02-23-2012, 12:09 PM
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I still think it boils down to licensing; enable a feature = pay more dollars to HDMI Inc.
Probably why they want features listed vs just the version number. (Sort of like what level of Audyssey a unit has. No doubt an XT32 license is more expensive than a 2EQ.)

The meat and potatoes as far a we're concerned is could it be activated after the fact if it's not now? I'm speculating that since there's 3D signal "pass-through", there's no reason that 4K signals couldn't use the same physical path if enabled by software.
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post #22003 of 26265 Old 02-23-2012, 09:55 PM
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I suspect the key word is "of", they added a feature that is part of the 1.4 spec possibly in the same way that Sony added 3D output to the PS3 purely via a software patch. 4k is probably way too much bandwidth for the hdmi chips in there and I don't remember the pics of the upgrade board including the hdmi card.
But it's still a nice upgrade and I'm happy with the audio results on the Avc, 11.3 output would have been nice thou.
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post #22004 of 26265 Old 02-25-2012, 12:31 AM
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Just ordered my Audyssey pro kit,I'm really looking forward to doing a thorough calibration with it & giving XT32 the most accurate information to work with.

AVP owners who have done a pro calibration,what sort of improvements can I expect ?
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post #22005 of 26265 Old 02-25-2012, 05:40 AM
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I was looking at the JVC projector specs to-day, their DLA-RS4000U is a true 4K projector, only uses HDMI 1.3 connections, so probably safe to assume that HDMI 1.3 has enough bandwidth for a 4K signal.
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post #22006 of 26265 Old 02-25-2012, 01:23 PM
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I'm taking my AVP-A1 in for the upgrade next week (Media Associates.)

What, besides the unit itself, do I need to take in? Power cord? Remote(s)? Something else?

Tried to search the thread, but too many hits on "upgrade"... Thanks!

eric

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post #22007 of 26265 Old 02-25-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post

I'm taking my AVP-A1 in for the upgrade next week (Media Associates.)

What, besides the unit itself, do I need to take in? Power cord? Remote(s)? Something else?

Tried to search the thread, but too many hits on "upgrade"... Thanks!

eric

Eric,

When I upgraded mine the only thing they needed was the AVP. You
might call them and double check.

Brad
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post #22008 of 26265 Old 02-25-2012, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post

I'm taking my AVP-A1 in for the upgrade next week (Media Associates.)
eric

I'm curious as to how long it will take for yours. I stopped by the local repair shop 2 weeks ago today and paid for the upgrade. They ordered the parts the following Tuesday but as of today I hadn't heard anything so I called to check. They said that when the parts hadn't come in by mid-week they checked with Denon USA and were told the kits were temporarily out of stock here and more were coming from Japan. They hope to have them this week. When they arrive they will contact me and I'll take the AVP for the upgrade which I'm told should only be about 3 days.
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post #22009 of 26265 Old 02-25-2012, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH View Post


Eric,

When I upgraded mine the only thing they needed was the AVP. You
might call them and double check.

Brad

I even had mine boxed up and they didn't want the box either! SJ
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post #22010 of 26265 Old 02-25-2012, 09:31 PM
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I was lucky in that the place I took my unit to had a upgrade kit on hand. I took it in at 8:00 am, they called me at 4:00 pm and said I could come in and pick it up. So my turn around was in one day. I purposely wanted to make sure they had a upgrade kit on hand. The place I took it to was Adam's Electronics located in Huntington Beach, CA. They are a service center for Denon, JbL, Infinity....
Manny
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post #22011 of 26265 Old 02-26-2012, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLA View Post

I was looking at the JVC projector specs to-day, their DLA-RS4000U is a true 4K projector, only uses HDMI 1.3 connections, so probably safe to assume that HDMI 1.3 has enough bandwidth for a 4K signal.

Sorry, the JVC does in-projector up-sampling to 4K.

The bandwidth required for 4K is more than double what HDMI 1.3 can handle.

Plus the only 4K source that is even rumored is the the RED player for >$10K.

We are very, very far away from 4K being relevant in the A/V chain.

Projector-based upsampling is a nice short-term bonus, but only of value to users who have huge screens that they sit very close to, otherwise, not that big a deal right now.
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post #22012 of 26265 Old 02-26-2012, 07:24 AM
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I thought about the longevity of the Denon 5308CI before getting the upgrade. The only thing I see of interest in the distant horizon is 4K resolution. Probably projection will be the first, followed by displays. I see displays out about 4 years if not more. We will need the standards for the players as well as the processers. Up till then, I want my Denon 5308CI to do it thing, so Aud XT32 was worth the cost of admission. As for you folks with the AVP-A1HDCIs etcetera, If you have the setup where Aud XT32 will improve the performance it would seem like a no brainer. I am wondering, how many of us are there. I noted that somewhere in this post I saw a list of about 80 owners? So what is the estimate of total ownership of this Denon Flagship separate? 1000 to 1500? I wonder about the number for the Denon 5308CI Perhaps 2500 worldwide?
Manny
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post #22013 of 26265 Old 02-26-2012, 09:54 AM
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4k is a non-factor as far as my AVP is concerned. With dual output players, mulitple input displays and even wireless HD PJ's currently available, by the time it comes around there'll be easy work-arounds.
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post #22014 of 26265 Old 02-26-2012, 12:14 PM
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Really like to purchase the AVP-A1HDCI. Now which AMP are you guys using or recomended to go with the AVP-A1HDCI that can offer at least decent performace compare to the POA-A1HDCI (there is no way i can get both the POA-A1HDCI and AVP-A1HDCI; so looking for another AMP that can at get at least 90% of the performance compare to the POA-A1HDCI). thanks
And my speakers:
- 7.1 in main room (surrounds back and surrounds side: are ceiling speakers)
- Have about 10 pair of speakers- ceiling speakers with wall volume control, for around the house, for zone 2
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post #22015 of 26265 Old 02-26-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post


Sorry, the JVC does in-projector up-sampling to 4K.

The bandwidth required for 4K is more than double what HDMI 1.3 can handle.

Plus the only 4K source that is even rumored is the the RED player for >$10K.

We are very, very far away from 4K being relevant in the A/V chain.

Projector-based upsampling is a nice short-term bonus, but only of value to users who have huge screens that they sit very close to, otherwise, not that big a deal right now.

Wikipedia HDMI entry claims that active 1.3 HDMI cable can do 4K.
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post #22016 of 26265 Old 02-26-2012, 05:31 PM
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^^
Note there is a distinction between the "device" being rated HDMI 1.3 and the "cable" being rated HDMI 1.3. Cables should have never been labeled with an HDMI cert number and in fact as of Jan 1, 2012, the HDMI.org has warned mfr's against using an HDMI cert number on all cables produced after this date. Cables are either Standard Speed (720p/1080i) or High Speed (1080p/4K) which is why older high speed cables labeled HDMI 1.3 from 4 years ago will pass 3D video. It was purely a marketing ploy by cable mfr's to get folks buying new HDMI 1.4/3D HDTVs to buy new cables labeled HDMI 1.4.

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post #22017 of 26265 Old 02-27-2012, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildzx View Post

Really like to purchase the AVP-A1HDCI. Now which AMP are you guys using or recomended to go with the AVP-A1HDCI that can offer at least decent performace compare to the POA-A1HDCI (there is no way i can get both the POA-A1HDCI and AVP-A1HDCI; so looking for another AMP that can at get at least 90% of the performance compare to the POA-A1HDCI). thanks
And my speakers:
- 7.1 in main room (surrounds back and surrounds side: are ceiling speakers)
- Have about 10 pair of speakers- ceiling speakers with wall volume control, for around the house, for zone 2

Amps are pretty "benign" in the audio chain as long as they have sufficient power to do the job. I'm pretty sure there's a whack of different amps being used with the AVP. Your best bet is to decide on a budget, how much power you need, and look for what's available in that price range.
Used is a good way to get more out of your dollar and amps are pretty reliable so they're usually the safest of components to buy that way.
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post #22018 of 26265 Old 02-27-2012, 08:42 AM
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Last week I ordered a microphone tripod and camera adapter from Sweetwater. The CA is needed to attach the AVP's mic to the tripod. I've never been happy with my Audyssey settings as I've struggled to understand the dialogue on a number of BD's. One of the worst offenders is the last two Harry Potter films. If I turned up the volume to understand all the words, the loud sounds blew me out of the room. I finally decided it was worth $50 to put the mic on a tripod and see if removing as much reflection from around the mic as possible would help.

In short, the result was a astounding. While I had tried to isolate the mic from reflection as much as possible previously, using the tripod improved my surround sound experience 100%. Dialogue snapped into place, surround effects became more dramatic and I was able to listen at a comfortable volume without strain.

If you own the Denon AVP and haven't calibrated your room using something like this to isolate your mic from reflection, you're eating half a loaf.
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post #22019 of 26265 Old 02-27-2012, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady View Post

Last week I ordered a microphone tripod and camera adapter from Sweetwater. The CA is needed to attach the AVP's mic to the tripod. I've never been happy with my Audyssey settings as I've struggled to understand the dialogue on a number of BD's. One of the worst offenders is the last two Harry Potter films. If I turned up the volume to understand all the words, the loud sounds blew me out of the room. I finally decided it was worth $50 to put the mic on a tripod and see if removing as much reflection from around the mic as possible would help.

In short, the result was a astounding. While I had tried to isolate the mic from reflection as much as possible previously, using the tripod improved my surround sound experience 100%. Dialogue snapped into place, surround effects became more dramatic and I was able to listen at a comfortable volume without strain.

If you own the Denon AVP and haven't calibrated your room using something like this to isolate your mic from reflection, you're eating half a loaf.

Interesting.........I have been struggling for a long time with dialogue on DTS-HD MA and Dolby HD. I boosted the center channel volume which means it now deviates from the Audyssey setup but still have issues on some titles. I've assumed it was just the soundtrack and/or issues with the DTS/Dolby HD tracks themselves. Have re-calibrated Audyssey several times with the same results. Was hoping the new upgrade (when I get around to it) would fix it.

Can you PM me with the details of what you purchased and how you accomplished the task? Thanks.
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post #22020 of 26265 Old 02-27-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady View Post

Last week I ordered a microphone tripod and camera adapter from Sweetwater. The CA is needed to attach the AVP's mic to the tripod. I've never been happy with my Audyssey settings as I've struggled to understand the dialogue on a number of BD's. One of the worst offenders is the last two Harry Potter films. If I turned up the volume to understand all the words, the loud sounds blew me out of the room. I finally decided it was worth $50 to put the mic on a tripod and see if removing as much reflection from around the mic as possible would help.

In short, the result was a astounding. While I had tried to isolate the mic from reflection as much as possible previously, using the tripod improved my surround sound experience 100%. Dialogue snapped into place, surround effects became more dramatic and I was able to listen at a comfortable volume without strain.

If you own the Denon AVP and haven't calibrated your room using something like this to isolate your mic from reflection, you're eating half a loaf.

That's what I use. A boom mic stand with an adaptor. Can position the setup exactly at ear level and pointing up. Have had great results. SJ
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