Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 753 - AVS Forum
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post #22561 of 26326 Old 04-29-2012, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

Anyone with the upgrade actually tried the new 3D feature yet? Mine is in the shop today getting the upgrade done (nail bite) but was wondering if anyone has actually watched a Blu Ray 3D movie through the AVP with the upgrade.

not seen a reply to this, hi willy, yep been using 3D right through my upgraded avp via cambridge 751bd and epson 9000 pj. works a treat. watched a few movies so far, pirates stranger tides, tinitin 3D to name a couple.
all works absolutely seamlessly as it should

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post #22562 of 26326 Old 04-29-2012, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

I probably have never noticed them running before because of the loudness of the 2 PC fans that I have rigged up blowing across the outside top of the case.

Just got my AVP back from the shop for the upgrade. Getting ready to sit down and sort it out (ugghh) and hook things up again.

For those of you in the Southeast US that want to use Norman's in Atlanta for the upgrade, so far I have had a pleasant experience overall. Will hold final judgement until I get the unit hooked up and confirm everything works as it should.

same here, have a noctua silent fan drawing air out the avp as preventative measure as well. to keep my avp cool and happy. dont hear the noctua, so imagine cant hear any fan inside the avp either !

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post #22563 of 26326 Old 04-29-2012, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

What you talk about is simple temp control, which is fine with me i just heard it has a more complex system i guess my the info they gave me is wrong. You base this in schematics you have ?

Daniel.

That"s right simple temp control.
Based on schematics kinotechniki, greek rep, has in their tech library.
I was curious as to the 5 fans on the bottom of poa , and one day i was there , i took the sm and looked it up.

Limits established to be exceeded.
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post #22564 of 26326 Old 04-29-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to come up with some more bucks, because last night the 5-channel Sony TA-N9000ES that I use to power the C/SR/SL for the AVP gave up the ghost I'm running the AVP just in stereo right now, and I'm not happy about it. Supposedly the Sony amp is fixable, but I took it apart today, and replacing the (potentially) problem resistors is more than I can handle.

Anyone seen a new-in-box POA on 70% off close-out?

If you call "HUPPINS/ONE CALL", they might offer you a significant discount if they have one in stock. They don't advertise the price but when I bought my AVP, they basically sold me a brand new unopened box full warranty AVP for the price of a refurb and included free FEDEX 2nd Day Air to boot. Of course the US economy was really lousy then (2010) so they may not extend the same pricing now.

I like using separate 2 channel amps for the exact reason you just experienced: If one goes, you just swap out the one amp. Can't imagine lifting, boxing and shipping the POA would be a pleasant experience. I use several Parasound amps of varying power and employ creative triggering to turn them on when needed. The heaviest one is about 30 pounds I think.

I think Amazon is now selling some Parasound and Onkyo amps. And you probably already know the Emotivas and Outlaws get good reviews and have quite a following on AVS.
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post #22565 of 26326 Old 04-29-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

not seen a reply to this, hi willy, yep been using 3D right through my upgraded avp via cambridge 751bd and epson 9000 pj. works a treat. watched a few movies so far, pirates stranger tides, tinitin 3D to name a couple.
all works absolutely seamlessly as it should

Thanks Al. Good to know. Like most on this thread, I upgraded primarily for the XT32 and the better bass handling and figure the 3D will simplify things a bit as far as wiring hookups, etc. - especially when Santa brings my new 3D projector later this year.

Are you taking advantage of the XT32 and now listening to 2 channel sources (IE: Your REGA P9) through the AVP? I can hardly wait to listen to my Beatles Parlophone collection through the P9 and AVP with XT32. My old room had some serious bass issues that I hope will be remedied.

Edited my post: Freudian slip......Not P25 but P9!
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post #22566 of 26326 Old 04-29-2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jomark911 View Post

That"s right simple temp control.
Based on schematics kinotechniki, greek rep, has in their tech library.
I was curious as to the 5 fans on the bottom of poa , and one day i was there , i took the sm and looked it up.

Thanks that clears it up. i guess they control each of them to try to keep the temp. as stable over the whole case as they can would be bad to have 1 cold and 1 hot part by also cooling amps that might not be in operation.

See you are in Athens, a city ill visit again soon on my way to Mykonos. Been planning my trip and always more stops you want this time a year. Why o why do these european projects want to have meetings in places like mykonos and stay for days after we give a talk is so unclear to me *grin*.

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post #22567 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

Thanks Al. Good to know. Like most on this thread, I upgraded primarily for the XT32 and the better bass handling and figure the 3D will simplify things a bit as far as wiring hookups, etc. - especially when Santa brings my new 3D projector later this year.

Are you taking advantage of the XT32 and now listening to 2 channel sources (IE: Your REGA P9) through the AVP? I can hardly wait to listen to my Beatles Parlophone collection through the P9 and AVP with XT32. My old room had some serious bass issues that I hope will be remedied.

Edited my post: Freudian slip......Not P25 but P9!

hi willy yeah upgraded myself for the xt32 as well, however by the time upgrade came through my original pj had fallen over and epson replaced it with the new top of the range 3D 9000. and can say 3D via a projector is really worth. never was hugely convinced with 3D however with the projector and with real 3D titles ie not the fake stuff it really looks the business. the bigger projected image helps immerse yourself and adds to the realism factor I think.

my rega p9 hooked up in my 2ch system so cant tell you how xt32 helps with that. but handsdown without question the upgrade has been a good step up on the audio side. so very happy been able to get the upgrade done

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post #22568 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 07:11 AM
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Nice to see other P9 + AVP owners!

I'm using a P9 + Dyna XX2mkII + PS-Audio GCPH via the XLR inputs on the AVP.

Sound is quite nice, although in hindsight it was probably too much $$ to dump into an analog rig considering how much time I get to listen. I used to have a R3-24 + TTPSU + Dyna 10x5, which was a hellova combo.

FWIW, I don't run Audyssey when listening to LPs. Pure Direct works great in my room.
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post #22569 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Nice to see other P9 + AVP owners!

I'm using a P9 + Dyna XX2mkII + PS-Audio GCPH via the XLR inputs on the AVP.

Sound is quite nice, although in hindsight it was probably too much $$ to dump into an analog rig considering how much time I get to listen. I used to have a R3-24 + TTPSU + Dyna 10x5, which was a hellova combo.

FWIW, I don't run Audyssey when listening to LPs. Pure Direct works great in my room.

Love my P9. Running it through a Fosgate all tube preamp and the AVP. Don't get me going on the Audyssey/Pure Direct thing - we had a big discussion on this thread about that very thing some time ago.
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post #22570 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 11:25 AM
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SL1210 - 2M Blue - GCPH - AVP + XT32 = Ridiculously great results.

In my system, vinyl with Audyssey trumps pure direct. Might be an aquired taste, but to my ears it's a significant improvement. Enough that I'd reccommend at least trying it for a while.
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post #22571 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

Love my P9. Running it through a Fosgate all tube preamp and the AVP. Don't get me going on the Audyssey/Pure Direct thing - we had a big discussion on this thread about that very thing some time ago.

OK, I won't get you going!

Seriously, the room has a big impact on whether an analog source is better pure direct or Audyssey. And how much flexibility one has with speaker placement and room treatment. Audyssey doesn't make a pure analog source sound better, it just greatly reduces the adverse impact a problematical room can create. In most cases probably more than offsetting the negatives it can induce.

The better the room, the better the equipment, with good placement and room treatment, pure direct becomes more and more the way to go. I was able to set up my system, which is a combined 2 channel/HT, with 2 channel as priority one. That greatly changes the dynamic for me, admittedly not the norm. But, I might be the 1 in 100 AVP owners that is lucky enough to have these advantages in terms of two channel analog.

I can tell you this, with my Basis TT, Graham Arm, Benz, Parasound JC2 and Revel Ultima 2 speakers, the AVP as a two channel pre amp is pretty fantastic. Shocking my snobby two channel, tube, vinyl friends.
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post #22572 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 01:44 PM
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Seriously, the room has a big impact on whether an analog source is better pure direct or Audyssey.

I am fortunate enough to have a pretty good-sounding small/medium room. Yes XT32 is terrific! I think the benefits for XT32 for 5.1/7.1 are with the balance, level, integration, sub EQ and "timbre matching" for all your speakers.

When it's straight stereo, and your room response is good to start with, it is hard to beat the very clean path the AVP provides in Direct mode.

My speakers have a rolled-off top end in room, as reflected in my Audyssey before-graph. That means everything is a bit brighter when corrected. Not to bothersome in 5.1, but in stereo, I prefer the "easier" sound of slightly smoothed highs. There's also a slight mid-bass bump (uncorrected) that is rather pleasing with all recordings. Of course Audyssey smooths that out, when engaged.

My speakers are pretty good (B&W Nautilus 802s), so their voicing appealed to me long before the invention of XT32. Maybe my brain got hard-wired to prefer the uncorrected stereo sound
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post #22573 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 03:17 PM
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. Maybe my brain got hard-wired to prefer the uncorrected stereo sound

My experience is that's a more comon scenario than people know, or more likely than people will admit. It works both ways, like me preferring the corrected sound. That same principle applies to a lot of stuff audio.

There's nothing wrong with it, it just is what it is, but I get a kick out of zelots that refuse to understand there's always something "psycho-acoustic" in play with everyone.
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post #22574 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 04:49 PM
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Seriously, the room has a big impact on whether an analog source is better pure direct or Audyssey. And how much flexibility one has with speaker placement and room treatment..

Absolutely, not only that but listening habits and how the system is configured comes into play too.
There's a big difference in how my system sounds at 65db vs 85db, and I probably listen to 2ch music closer to the upper end of that. It's pure specultation on my part, but I gotta think that if one listened at the lower volume most often that room effects might not be as pronounced.

I've always loved what room correction does for the bottom end and feel that accurate bass opens up the entire sound spectrum. So even in my highly treated room with full range speakers I ran a sub and EQ for 2ch.

There's no one size fits all answer, and I guess that's why they call it a hobby.
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post #22575 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 05:04 PM
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There's no one size fits all answer, and I guess that's why they call it a hobby.

Ain't that the truth.

I listen to 'most' of my vinyl in Pure Direct Mode with Audyssey FLAT or Audyssey Bypass L/R. I will sometimes cycle through the settings depending on the record (Usually trying to get the bass right). Since I haven't used my AVP since the upgrade, I wonder if the upgrade changed the ability to have Audyssey engaged in Pure Direct mode.
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post #22576 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

SL1210 - 2M Blue - GCPH - AVP + XT32 = Ridiculously great results.

In my system, vinyl with Audyssey trumps pure direct. Might be an aquired taste, but to my ears it's a significant improvement. Enough that I'd reccommend at least trying it for a while.

Why don't you turn on audysey while pure-direct is engaged ? Or is that what you mean ?. I do all my music listening in pure-direct mode but with audyssey and subs engaged.

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post #22577 of 26326 Old 04-30-2012, 11:48 PM
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My experience is that's a more comon scenario than people know, or more likely than people will admit. It works both ways, like me preferring the corrected sound. That same principle applies to a lot of stuff audio.

There's nothing wrong with it, it just is what it is, but I get a kick out of zelots that refuse to understand there's always something "psycho-acoustic" in play with everyone.

The brain is probably the biggest thing in the whole story. You can even make a argument about comparing 2 systems and/or modes because you keep a biased to your normal sound. Your brain isn't even capable to 'clear the mind' between 2 tests fully and that also creates a biased.

Personally i think the aim should be to replay as close as possible how it should sound and let my brain perform burn in on that mode. Simply because this balance (for example less bass as probably before) works well with music at the extremes of the mixing scale.

Daniel.

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post #22578 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 04:06 AM
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...My speakers are pretty good (B&W Nautilus 802s), so their voicing appealed to me long before the invention of XT32. Maybe my brain got hard-wired to prefer the uncorrected stereo sound

I am interested to know whether you have done some new A/B preference comparisons (level-matched of course) of Direct vs XT32, now that you have it.

It used to be that with XT (AVR 4310), if I "listened through" my room's nasty bass, when in Direct mode I could hear slightly better detail and imaging for well-recorded acoustic material. That's no longer the case for XT32 (AVR 4311), especially with the added refinement and polish of Audyssey Pro. BTW, with Pro you can create a " smooth" sounding custom house curve.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #22579 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 08:11 AM
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Why don't you turn on audysey while pure-direct is engaged ? Or is that what you mean ?. I do all my music listening in pure-direct mode but with audyssey and subs engaged.

Daniel.

No I'm talking vs everything off, I went into the 2ch settings and switched to large and turned Audyssey off before trying Pure Direct. But I will definitely give it a go.
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post #22580 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 08:24 AM
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I am interested to know whether you have done some new A/B preference comparisons (level-matched of course) of Direct vs XT32, now that you have it..

No I haven't gone to that extent. The difference without level matching or critical listening is so obvious I didn't spend much time on it.
Mainly because I switched rooms while my unit was getting upgraded. My old room was acoustically designed and treated and the new room is a bit of an acoustic "faux-pas". I was blown away by how good XT32 made this room sound. I wish I could have tried it in my previous room to compare vs XT.
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post #22581 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 08:26 AM
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I am interested to know whether you have done some new A/B preference comparisons (level-matched of course) of Direct vs XT32, now that you have it.

It used to be that with XT (AVR 4310), if I "listened through" my room's nasty bass, when in Direct mode I could hear slightly better detail and imaging for well-recorded acoustic material. That's no longer the case for XT32 (AVR 4311), especially with the added refinement and polish of Audyssey Pro. BTW, with Pro you can create a " smooth" sounding custom house curve.

I did some A/B'ing, but not for an extended time. As I've mentioned, XT was just rotten for me, but XT32 doesn't alter the tonality in a weird way. While I get a "flatter" 2ch response from XT32, which takes some getting used to. I do have Pro, as well.

Part of my brain just doesn't like to digitize my analog rig.... it sounds very good in Pure Direct. The nagging feeling I'd get by using XT32 (which does bump the treble) outweighs the very agreeable sound I get with Pure Direct.

I may try the custom curve at some point in the future. Right now I'm still steaming over the fact that my TA-N9000ES amp for my C/SR/SL has died. So, I'll have to fool with my Pro kit again sometime in the future when I get the amp replaced.

Any AVP owners using an Outlaw 7500? I am intrigued by its Made in America pedigree, and true balanced design. Price is a big factor for me, at this point in time. I'd prefer new.
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post #22582 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 08:37 AM
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The brain is probably the biggest thing in the whole story. You can even make a argument about comparing 2 systems and/or modes because you keep a biased to your normal sound. Your brain isn't even capable to 'clear the mind' between 2 tests fully and that also creates a biased.
Daniel.

Yep, I don't know the exact number but I know at least 85% of your brains' work is done in the sub-conscious. It interprets the vibrations at your ear drums into sound. A lot of what it does is "fill in the blanks" type of fuzzy logic, so if you go out and buy a new piece of gear because it's supposed to sound better, your brain is going to use that as a point of reference so it's highly unlikely you'll perceive negative results.

I think this is also why most true double blind tests run such a low accuracy rate. If two pieces of gear measure +/- .05db from 20hz to 20khz what can you possibly hear that's not "contrived"?

Room correction is a slightly different egg, because you can get up to 6db corrections which should be significantly audible.
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post #22583 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 09:02 AM
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The nagging feeling I'd get by using XT32 (which does bump the treble) outweighs the very agreeable sound I get with Pure Direct.

That's interesting, because the default Audyssey curve actually rolls off the treble, unless you use the flat setting.
Just a wild guess, but if your room is highly treated, it may be boosting frequencies that are being absorbed more than they should be. So that might explain the perceived treble boost.
You could try a curve that matches your non-EQ'd room in the top end and see what the effect is.
Bottom line is whatever floats your boat, since you're the one listening.

Why not try the Outlaw? My take on amps (designed to output the same signal that is input) is they are the least impact-full component in the chain providing they match the speaker/room/listening distance & level requirements, which most do quite easily in average rooms.

From what I've seen Outlaw amps retain a pretty good re-sale value so not much risk.
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post #22584 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 10:56 AM
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Any AVP owners using an Outlaw 7500? I am intrigued by its Made in America pedigree, and true balanced design. Price is a big factor for me, at this point in time. I'd prefer new.

I am using a Gemstone to drive two of our three sets of surrounds with the AVP, with pretty satisfying results. True balanced, affordable and still available from the manufacturer online, last I checked. Massively heavy though.
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post #22585 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

That's interesting, because the default Audyssey curve actually rolls off the treble, unless you use the flat setting.
Just a wild guess, but if your room is highly treated, it may be boosting frequencies that are being absorbed more than they should be. So that might explain the perceived treble boost.
You could try a curve that matches your non-EQ'd room in the top end and see what the effect is.
Bottom line is whatever floats your boat, since you're the one listening.


Yeah, it does cut the treble a bit from "flat". But my in-room uncorrected response had even more of a dip. You can see my charts here. Regardless, I like the setup with Audyssey for 5.1, and Pure Direct/Direct for 2.0 listening

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That's interesting, because the default Audyssey Why not try the Outlaw? My take on amps (designed to output the same signal that is input) is they are the least impact-full component in the chain providing they match the speaker/room/listening distance & level requirements, which most do quite easily in average rooms.

From what I've seen Outlaw amps retain a pretty good re-sale value so not much risk.

Yeah, all my research did point me towards the Outlaw 7500. In a perfect world, I'd compliment my McIntosh MC-402 with an MC-303, but that is beyond my budget, and then some.
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post #22586 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 10:59 AM
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I am using a Gemstone to drive two of our three sets of surrounds with the AVP, with pretty satisfying results. True balanced, affordable and still available from the manufacturer online, last I checked. Massively heavy though.

I came across that in my searches, but never looked into the details. Where is it assembled? You like the sound? Heavy is good
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post #22587 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I came across that in my searches, but never looked into the details. Where is it assembled? You like the sound? Heavy is good

The owner of gemstone is also on the forum (or was) you can/could find him in the other pre/pro threads (forget which one right now, the one that is now part of ATI). Im sure if search you can find him and ask questions.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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post #22588 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

The owner of gemstone is also on the forum (or was) you can/could find him in the other pre/pro threads (forget which one right now, the one that is now part of ATI). Im sure if search you can find him and ask questions.

Daniel.

Yeah, I just did some looking/searching and found him, including the homepage. I understand there's a lot of happy owners, but I'm left with the impression it's more of a small one-man-shop type of operation. I don't think that's the direction I'd like to go with.

Why can't Denon make a 5-channel version of the POA for ~$3000??
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post #22589 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I came across that in my searches, but never looked into the details. Where is it assembled? You like the sound? Heavy is good

www.gemstoneaudio.com It's all there.

I previously used the Gem to drive mains with an Anthem D1 with very good sounding results.
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post #22590 of 26326 Old 05-01-2012, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Yeah, I just did some looking/searching and found him, including the homepage. I understand there's a lot of happy owners, but I'm left with the impression it's more of a small one-man-shop type of operation. I don't think that's the direction I'd like to go with.

Why can't Denon make a 5-channel version of the POA for ~$3000??

They do make a 5 channel fully balanced one, its called bridging finding it for $3000 might be tricky but not sure how much it would be off on ebay. The poa is probably not the best value but it aint bad keeping mine for a while.

Daniel.

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