Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 894 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26791 of 26820 Old 03-17-2016, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLA View Post
Has any one heard anything about this pre-pro?
http://www.audiocontrol.com/home-aud...rs/maestro-m9/
Funny, I just sent them a note a few days ago inquiring about the product and they didn't reply.

The audio specs look less than impressive.

From what I've heard, these guys are masters at switches and volume controls but the prepo thing never really took off for them,even after the 8 previous generations.
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post #26792 of 26820 Old 03-17-2016, 10:05 AM
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Can anyone who has made the switch from the Danon AVP to the Marantz AV8802A comment on the audio quality of the two? I just installed the Marantz in my system and really haven't had a chance to listen since I'll be travelling for the next week. I'm having a hard time justifying the switch since I'm not updating to 4K in the near future and I have a MiniDSP 88A Dirac processor on order which I'll be using for room equalization instead of Audyssey . I guess I'm really impressed with the quality of the Denon. It truly is a classic piece of equipment.
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post #26793 of 26820 Old 03-18-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by fperra View Post
Can anyone who has made the switch from the Danon AVP to the Marantz AV8802A comment on the audio quality of the two? I just installed the Marantz in my system and really haven't had a chance to listen since I'll be travelling for the next week. I'm having a hard time justifying the switch since I'm not updating to 4K in the near future and I have a MiniDSP 88A Dirac processor on order which I'll be using for room equalization instead of Audyssey . I guess I'm really impressed with the quality of the Denon. It truly is a classic piece of equipment.
Intresting... I didn't even know this existed. No balanced XLR connections, however?

Is nayone using this product with AVP in a balanced configuration?
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post #26794 of 26820 Old 03-18-2016, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by austin_avp View Post
Intresting... I didn't even know this existed. No balanced XLR connections, however?

Is nayone using this product with AVP in a balanced configuration?
Apparently you can get a XLR connecting block for the MiniDSP. It would involve hacking up some cable, i.e. it's not a clean/easy plugin.

Adding MiniDSP functionality to my AVP is something I've considered... Keep in mind you're sending everything through a A/D conversion before it gets to your amps.
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post #26795 of 26820 Old 03-18-2016, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by austin_avp View Post
Intresting... I didn't even know this existed. No balanced XLR connections, however?

Is nayone using this product with AVP in a balanced configuration?
I'm planning to use it with balanced connectors whether it be with the Marantz 8802a or the Denon AVP. The MiniDSP uses Phoenix terminal blocks for the balanced input and output connections. Very easy to use.
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post #26796 of 26820 Old 03-18-2016, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fperra View Post
I'm planning to use it with balanced connectors whether it be with the Marantz 8802a or the Denon AVP. The MiniDSP uses Phoenix terminal blocks for the balanced input and output connections. Very easy to use.
Hi all,

I would really like to know if someone has made this leap with the A1HDCI and their impressions and if it's worth it.

I am torn... I want Dirac Live badly (I have it in my car and am blown away) but nothing really touches the Denon AVP quality or flexibility, even after all these years... as long as I punt on 4k for now, the miniDSP may be a good solution for me.
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post #26797 of 26820 Old 03-19-2016, 05:52 AM
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I'm also toying with the idea of those miniDSPs for DRC.

I run an HTPC with JRiver MC, so I might pony up for DIRAC software and see how it works doing the DRC pre-AVP (of course, I'd put the AVP in 'direct' mode for that input).

So music and videos from the HTPC would use DIRAC, and everything else gets Audyssey, which should be fine just to check it out.
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post #26798 of 26820 Old 04-01-2016, 04:56 PM
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Hi guys,

I think I made my decision, where to go after my Denon AVP A1 experience, which was relatively short but most interesting.

It is not: Marantz - no, not at all. Not good enough for me - sorry to say this.
It is not: Yamaha - sorry guys, wrote them once an e-mail that I would buy a pre/pro if they would make one.
It's a pity, they make excellent professional equipment, mixing desks, digital reverbs etc. but their hi-fi line is on line with Integra, I would say
It is not Denon - again, sorry guys, this is your own fault, I guess that's because politics in D&M but this is just disappointing - something like 7200.... What was that?

It is Datasat! It seems they won, for me. Not the RS20i - this is over the top for my approach of HT. I don't need active x-overs and three or two amps per speaker and cables and an equipment room and a 19" rack.

I strongly think, it will be the LS10. With Atmos, DTS:X and DIRAC live - around 14.500 Euros. Hard to get in Germany, only one place I know. But I will go there and check it out and make my decision.

Well, this is the end of the story - I guess. However, I will always love my AVP A1 - it's build quality, its thoughtful balanced design, not to mention the sound.
But despite this, it was designed under a different paradigm, a world that did not come from computer science but from electronical engineering, which had more current and Ampere's in mind rather than digital processing - see the last upgrade.
The Datasat is expensive, yes, but I hope, that I can upgrade it in the future, as it received the HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 upgrade now and the respective software upgrades, which are key to it's use even in the long term, I hope. This is also expensive, as an Auro 3D software upgrade is priced at 3.800 Euros.

I want to express my gratitude to all of you, it was a pleasure reading about your thoughts, discussing issues with you.

I wish you that you find your best HT happiness. For me it seems that the way is the goal to HT happiness... Thanks to the industry

All the best for you all,

Markus

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post #26799 of 26820 Old 04-01-2016, 05:09 PM
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I would have gladly bought something with HDMI 2.0a last year - now I'm thinking I won't buy anything unless it supports HDMI 2.1 whenever that is. I can live without dtz xyz or whatever comes next or audyssy zeta zeta but the features that matter most in my next prepro


Great clean yet warm sound
TONS of balanced xlr connections
upgradeable hdmi (if the unit goes for over $5,000 IMHO it should come with free hdmi upgrades for the next 5 years - never being more than a year behind the latest HDMI standard). Since I can buy HDMI cards for my computer for about $55 I don't expect to pay $500 for an hdmi upgrade on a prepro. Either they need to make it a chip that is easy to replace or a card that is easy to insert. I shouldn't have to disconnect 20 cables and haul my prepro down to ups to ship it somewhere for a month or two to get an upgrade.

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post #26800 of 26820 Old 04-15-2016, 06:05 AM
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Has anyone here with the slow to warm up center channel or no center channel sound done the capacitor replacement themselves? I'm unsure I want to spend $500 to $1000 to repair my AVP or just sell as is on ebay.

Last edited by boe; 04-15-2016 at 06:58 AM.
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post #26801 of 26820 Old 04-19-2016, 09:00 AM
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Sorry, I have to correct me: I just bought a used Datasat RS20i for the price of a new LS10.

My AVP will now be for sale, but before I do this, I will make a comparison of the AVP with the RS20i, which will take some time. I know, that the RS20i and the AVP can not really be compared. For me, the AVP is more a living room compatible piece of equipment, whereas the RS20i is for the equipment room. First, I have to collect some experience with the RS20i, then, I will write something about it.
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post #26802 of 26820 Old 05-05-2016, 07:17 AM
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Meanwhile, I started my acquaintance with the Datasat RS20i and came to the conclusion that it is not possible for me to make a comparison of the AVP A1 and the RS20i.
The reason is that the RS20i is a professional cinema processor which allows customization of everything. In return this means that everything needs to be configured. This is also the reason, why they are selling it only with an installer service. This makes absolutely sense.
I am sitting here and reading the 155 pages manual of the RS20i and change some settings here and there and start to understand the concept behind this machine. It is overwhelming and excellent. The RS20i has a built-in Real Time Analyzer (RTA) and a 1/3rd octave EQ per channel. Four parametric EQ per channel and DIRAC Live, which only works with an external PC. This is only a small part of what processing can be done to the sound. You have up to 20 input presets with EQ and other settings and up to 20 - if I remember correctly - output presets.
May be you can understand now, why I think, they cannot be compared. There is no Blu-Ray player input you hook up your player, press the button and it starts playing. The AVP is for me the crown of a living room compatible Hi-Fi machine. To call it a pre/pro is fine until you see the Datasat. Then you know what a surround processor is.

This said, I cannot recommend to everybody to do the same as I did, except you want to immerse yourself into the concepts of the RS20i or you have enough money to be spent on installers, if you can get this support at all. Because I bought it used and transported it to another country, I do not get support from the installer in my country. This is Datasat's policy and I discussed this with the UK branch. However, they are taking care of owners directly who buy these used RS20i. But it took some discussions with them and what they wrote was not really straightforward more contradictory. However, at the end, everything was clear.
Any other buyer of such a machine on a used basis should be aware of these problems. Also in case of repairs, you have to sent it to the manufacturer and this is currently to California in the US.
I don't know, if the person, who recommended me some pages ago in this thread to buy an RS20i, was aware of all these problems or not. As a conclusion, I can only say, that the RS20i is a highly complex machine and needs a highly skilled person to set it up. This is not the case with the AVP. The most complex thing you can do with the AVP is to make an Audyssey Pro measurement which you can do yourself after some reading of the manuals. Not so with the RS20i, there you have to calculate the surround delay yourself and put it into the RS20i. Yes, this is more precise than with the AVP which derives the surround delay from the initial Audyssey measurement. You don't even see this parameter.

I hope I could give you an idea of what it means, if you switch from an AVP to a machine like the RS20i.

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post #26803 of 26820 Old 05-05-2016, 08:46 AM
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Ganymed4,


Thanks for keeping us up to date. I know I'd love to upgrade my AVP to something new today if I could or if Denon had a HDMI 2.0A I'd get that to hold me over. I haven't found anything blowing a lot of wind up my skirt so I think I'll probably delay my next upgrade for a few years when HDMI specs include 4K at 120hz or when superMHL becomes more common.
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post #26804 of 26820 Old 05-18-2016, 02:31 AM
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Yes, this is a good idea. I was really p... by this change of hardware and standards in the industry every four years or so. That's why I also started to search and found these really high priced Trinnov and Datasat units, which seem to keep the promise to be upgradable over the years.
Then it was coincidence that I found by chance some - yes, about three to four - used Datasat RS20i a bit over US$ 10.000, which is far below the list price of nearly 30.000 if equipped with all bells and whistles. Amazingly expensive, isn't it.
However, if you can get one in very good, nearly mint condition, as is mine, I think it is a bargain. Mine has 16 channels, Auro 3D card, which also does Atmos and DTS:X which is not available yet. DTS:X will come as a software upgrade.

To make a long story short, the Datasat is truly the best SSP I have ever heard in my live. Full stop.

It sounds as if I would sit in front of my mixing desk in the sound studio. Compared to the Denon AVP it is fast, super fast. Sound events come like a change from absolute darkness to the bright sunlight in one microsecond. The sound events are modeled in front of the speakers and I have the feeling I could touch the sound. Sorry to say this, but the RS20i is so much better than the AVP - I am really sorry old pal .

However, it also has many downsides. First of all, buying used Datasat equipment is a bit of an adventure. This means, right from the start, you don't get support. The distributor in Germany has denied support for any unit not bought new from him. Then I contacted Datasat directly and they told me, that they are providing support for used units. This is OK but not so easy, because all communication is via e-mail.
Also, the RS20i is an installer product and relies heavily on the support of an installer. It is the same business model as with Audyssey Pro but much stronger and less open for the customer than Audyssey. I was happy that I got also the Dirac V1 software with my RS20i and could do the Dirac measurement on my own. However, this is not the usual case. Normally you don't get the software or the measurement kit - comparable to Audyssey. Audyssey Pro costs around 500, Dirac from Datasat costs 5000, if you can get it at all. Installers only and they mean it.
A visit from the installer costs you 1500 or more, in case of Datasat and for Audyssey Pro you pay approx. 350 including the license.

The RS20i is a dream for a sound engineer and a nightmare for a 'normal' user. It is not plug and play, it is 'call the installer'. It has no IR remote, it can only be remote controlled via a program called VNC - not really user friendly but works. It has four HDMI inputs and one output and so on. Airplay, streaming? Nope!
This is a pure Surround Sound Processor, but this it does best. It is derived from the AP20 cinema processor and you can feel this. This machine has one purpose and this is not to sit in a living room but in an equipment room in a dedicated home cinema, controlled by an automation system like Crestron.

Surely, this is strong wording and you can also put it into a living room, as I did. But it is much less comfortable than clicking a button 'start movie' and the lights dim, the curtain opens, the Datasat is switched on... You know, what I mean.
I found my RS20i in the AVforum, I think this is a UK based forum. I also saw there an offer for an AP20 for around 3-4000 Pounds, but be aware that due to competition with Dolby Labs, the AP20 can only decode DTS and not Dolby.

Some last words about Dirac v1. This is better than Audyssey. After the measurement, I did not recognize my speakers. They are completely different now. The sound is excellent, everything from highs to lows is there and I have a clear and I would say neutral sound with very good and dry bass. On Dirac, I saw the measured curve and the resulting one - a very big difference.

Final words: If you are planning the same as I did, please gather as much information as you can about where the unit is from, who is the former installer, can you get support etc. Please read the manual in advance. An older version - 1.01 - is available via a search in the Internet - Datasat RS20i manual. Please read it carefully, if you understand everything written there. You have to set all parameters yourself and e.g. calculate the surround delay for the surround speakers by yourself, including delay and set the speaker levels manually. Dirac Live v1 doesn't do this, v2 should do this, but I don't have it yet and therefore have no experience. Or, call an installer and pay.

The Denon AVP A1 is a wonderful pre/pro and has a build quality others can dream of. The RS20i is a 'work horse', dedicated to one purpose: Decode surround sound as best as it can and it delivers 105% - I have to correct me here: 150% with Auro 3D. The AVP A1 is a multi-purpose machine, the RS20i is not.
This is my personal conclusion. Somehow, I will miss my AVP, sound wise not.

For the records: Same speaker layout (9.2, 7.2.2 or 5.2.4 - with heights and under the ceiling rear surrounds), same speakers and same power amps (Audionet.de Amp V and Amp VII) as with Denon AVP-A1. MM 1 Beyer Dynamic measurement microphone, Tascam us-122 Mk II USB ADC, Dirac Live v.1 standard curve.

Addendum 1: Dirac Live v.2

Meanwhile, I have received a complimentary upgrade from Dirac v.1 to v.2 via Datasat. Thank you guys!!!
Dirac Live v.2 is really an improvement but also different. I had problems with 'empty channels' because of the output preset of the RS20i. The Datasat channel layout is usually channel 1,2,3 = LCR and 4 = 1st subwoofer. 5,6,7,8 is LS, RS, RSL, RSR. But now it gets a bit complicated, if you have a 9.2 system, like me. Remember, sixteen channels and the position for LH and RH (heights) is 9 and 10, then comes wides - I don't have - 11, 12 and 13 is the second sub-woofer. 14 and 15 are consecutive sub-woofers, if you have. 16 is voice of god, but I didn't verify this, because I don't have it.
This means, that output channels 11 and 12 have no connection and are empty.
This leads to an error with Dirac v.2 because the program assumed, that there are speakers connected. The solution was, to change the sub-woofer to channel 11 instead of 13, in result the program found a chain of speakers in one row.
Wow, this was tricky and it worked at the end. Dirac on the PC downloads the output preset configuration from the RS20i and you cannot switch off specific channels on the PC, however you need consecutive channels.
After solving this problem, I did my measurements but it showed, there is no big difference between v.1 and v.2. It is a change for the GUI but not very much sound wise.
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post #26805 of 26820 Old 06-10-2016, 08:59 PM
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Why are many people insisting on balanced connections? For the relatively short cabling required for most home systems, balanced doesn't offer benefits over unbalanced.

Or are you actually running many tens (or even hundreds?!) of metres of cabling?
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post #26806 of 26820 Old 06-10-2016, 10:54 PM
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When using balanced only pro amps, a fully balanced path is preferable, whatever the cable lengths.
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post #26807 of 26820 Old 06-12-2016, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
When using balanced only pro amps, a fully balanced path is preferable, whatever the cable lengths.
Why do you think that?

Edit: Obviously if the amp *only* has balanced outputs, that's one thing. But excluding that specific case, why do you think balanced is superior to unbalanced, over normal/short cable runs?

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post #26808 of 26820 Old 07-02-2016, 01:27 AM
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Quick question to anybody left around still running the pre/pro (which is pretty similar to my UK AVC-A1HDA).
My question concerns how 7.1 soundtracks are 'mixed down' for playback on a 5.1 system.
How is this done, exactly? I ask because me and my son watched My Fair Lady 50th Anniversary Edition last night, and the rear channels just seemed completely silent. A little digging, and I discovered that on this 7.1 Dolby True HD soundtrack, the rear channels are indeed pretty silent, and the music/ambient effects are steered towards the back channels instead.

But my modest system doesn't have the back channels installed, I just run a 5.1 system.
So, how does the big Denon downmix these channels? I presume they shouldn't be lost, but mixed into the rear channels?
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post #26809 of 26820 Old 07-02-2016, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MoFoHo View Post
Quick question to anybody left around still running the pre/pro (which is pretty similar to my UK AVC-A1HDA).
My question concerns how 7.1 soundtracks are 'mixed down' for playback on a 5.1 system.
How is this done, exactly? I ask because me and my son watched My Fair Lady 50th Anniversary Edition last night, and the rear channels just seemed completely silent. A little digging, and I discovered that on this 7.1 Dolby True HD soundtrack, the rear channels are indeed pretty silent, and the music/ambient effects are steered towards the back channels instead.

But my modest system doesn't have the back channels installed, I just run a 5.1 system.
So, how does the big Denon downmix these channels? I presume they shouldn't be lost, but mixed into the rear channels?
Have you told it you have no tears but dude surrounds ?
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post #26810 of 26820 Old 07-02-2016, 05:07 AM
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Have you told it you have no tears but dude surrounds ?
Hi thanks for the quick reply!
Yes, on the Audessy config screen it correctly shows a 5.1 system. But I'm going to do a FULL Audessy run through again today, including letting the amp check for all speakers...

I did a little experimenting, with the My Fair Lady 7.1 Dolby True HD track.
The MFL track is unusual as I'm sure I've read that most rearwards information goes to the back surrounds instead of the usual rear surrounds, for most of the time.

My amp correctly shows a 7.1 incoming signal on the left of the display, and 5.1 playback on the right of the display, (when my BD player is either bitstreaming sending LPCM multi-channel).

When bitstreaming: A few minutes into the opening musical cue ( 0:01.16 to be exact), and my rears do indeed start to sing! They fade up just as the credits start to appear on screen. But for most of the movie, they are silent. After George Cukors directors credit, they go quiet again! Through most musical numbers, my rears are silent, or very quiet indeed.

When decoding to multichannel LPCM: I tried both players internally decoding to 7.1 LPCM. Hey presto, MUCH more sound coming through the rear speakers!


I have 2 Bd players, a Denon DBP-4010 and a Panasonic DMP-BDT310.

It's as if my amp just isn't mixing the surround/back surround channels together when bitstreaming, but IS performing this task when being sent a 7.1 LPCM track. (or perhaps, that task is happening in the BD players themselves?)

Any ideas?
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post #26811 of 26820 Old 07-02-2016, 09:57 AM
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I have a question about 7.1 vs. 5.1 for anyone who really knows their stuff. I don't know if I should bother or not due to the limitations of my walls/doors etc in the room I'm in. On one side there is a door, the other side, is open there is no wall to mount anything as it leads to the next room with no divider. The LR fronts and rears are full height speakers sitting on the floor.


If I wanted to add 2 more speakers I could only mount them over my head near ceiling height on the wall over the couch or over the existing fronts near ceiling height. I'm not sure there is any advantage to 7.1 vs. 5.1 in this situation.

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post #26812 of 26820 Old 07-02-2016, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post
I have a question about 7.1 vs. 5.1 for anyone who really knows their stuff. I don't know if I should bother or not due to the limitations of my walls/doors etc in the room I'm in. On one side there is a door, the other side, is open there is no wall to mount anything as it leads to the next room with no divider. The LR fronts and rears are full height speakers sitting on the floor.


If I wanted to add 2 more speakers I could only mount them over my head near ceiling height on the wall over the couch or over the existing fronts near ceiling height. I'm not sure there is any advantage to 7.1 vs. 5.1 in this situation.
IMHO, you wouldn't get good results trying to go to a 7.1 configuration given your room constraints. If you have the ability to mount speakers at or near ceiling height, I suspect you'd be much better off holding off until you replace the Denon AVP and go with a 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS-X/Auro 3D configuration at that point.
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post #26813 of 26820 Old 07-02-2016, 01:39 PM
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IMHO, you wouldn't get good results trying to go to a 7.1 configuration given your room constraints. If you have the ability to mount speakers at or near ceiling height, I suspect you'd be much better off holding off until you replace the Denon AVP and go with a 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS-X/Auro 3D configuration at that point.
Thanks for confirming. I love my AVP but look forward to moving forward - unfortunately nothing is blowing any wind up my skirt yet.
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post #26814 of 26820 Old 07-17-2016, 08:29 AM
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Thanks for confirming. I love my AVP but look forward to moving forward - unfortunately nothing is blowing any wind up my skirt yet.
If you are willing to have an 'adventure' and you have the money, then I can recommend you to search for a used Datasat RS20i. I doubt that you will be able to find a LS10, because they are quite new and I guess nobody will sell them right now. Soundwise, the RS20i is a whole new world compared to the AVP A1 and I am not overdoing this here. You can get an RS20i for around 12 to 15,000 US$ fully fledged. I saw at least four used units offered on AVForum. I can only recommend the Datasat but if you want to set it up on your own, you need quite a lot of knowldge and I recommend that you read the manual first. Search for Datasat RS20i manual in a search engine of your choice.
I am also happy to share my experiences with you - sent me a PM.
I have replaced my AVP A1 with the RS20i and I use it in exactly the same set-up, I used before. I did the standard DIRAC room correction curve and I am really stunned about the result. I also listened to a Yamaha CX-A5100 at a friends HT and you can hear the differences - Neumann studio monitors and different room aside.
Many pages ago, somebody recommended the Datasat to me and I never thought, that I would own one now. But it is truly the best surround processor, I ever listened to up to now.
It is somehow tideous and may not satisfy all needs like airplay or phono input. If you really want this unit, you have to be flexible and look for different approaches than one pre/pro does it all. But the sound will pay you back for all presumably missing features.
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post #26815 of 26820 Old 07-17-2016, 11:05 AM
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Thanks - I'll admit the most I could justify on a new PREPRO is $5000. I don't ever want to be stuck with an obsolete piece of equipment like the AVP again. That isn't a dig on the AVP - I love it but the fact that the HDMI isn't further upgradable is tragic.
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post #26816 of 26820 Old 08-02-2016, 01:47 AM
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Thanks - I'll admit the most I could justify on a new PREPRO is $5000. I don't ever want to be stuck with an obsolete piece of equipment like the AVP again. That isn't a dig on the AVP - I love it but the fact that the HDMI isn't further upgradable is tragic.
gee.... a bit harsh ! 8 years I got out of my avp...in av land that is an eternity that a maker has kept something going and supported.

there comes a point you have to move on !

I personally think of all the money I saved over the 8 years not having to change over processors !

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."


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post #26817 of 26820 Old 08-02-2016, 08:11 AM
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I'm not sure how that is harsh. I love my AVP but am ready for something new.
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post #26818 of 26820 Old 08-02-2016, 05:27 PM
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I'm not sure how that is harsh. I love my AVP but am ready for something new.
I also thought your statement:

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I don't ever want to be stuck with an obsolete piece of equipment like the AVP again.
was kind of harsh. It comes across as sounding sour grapes that the AVP didn't deliver good value, when I think most of us feel exactly the opposite. I think you do too and didn't mean your comment to come across the way some of us read it. I'd gladly buy a replacement AVP with comparable MSRP if I can get the same amount of life out of it that I got out of this piece.

Last edited by gsr; 08-02-2016 at 06:05 PM.
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post #26819 of 26820 Old 08-02-2016, 05:51 PM
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Nope - not sour grapes - just bumming I can't keep upgrading it since nothing else on the market is really in that same quality sound/money IMHO. I'd gladly buy an AVP2 if they made it.
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post #26820 of 26820 Old 08-03-2016, 05:12 AM
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Nope - not sour grapes - just bumming I can't keep upgrading it since nothing else on the market is really in that same quality sound/money IMHO. I'd gladly buy an AVP2 if they made it.
no nothing, however have been quite pleased with the marantz 8802A... no lacks balls, but still has hit the spot particularly with 3D audio which am seriously enjoying and works seamlessly with uhd capable jvc.

2018 ie ten year anniversary for next A series would expect... though quite suspect it to be a marantz this time 9901 or some such...

perhaps even SA ? something will be mega bucks though i suspect !

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