Official Yamaha RX-V863 thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1006 Old 03-27-2008, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Scarcely available, here are the specs from yamaha.com. I'm considering this reciever (as well as the Yamaha 1800, Denon 2808CI) for my 5.0 Bose speaker setup. Input on the 863 is welcomed! (Too bad the Onkyo 805 only upconverts to 480p!)

RX-V863 / $999.95
7.2-Channel Digital Home Theater Receiver (New)
Full support for HD audio formats ensures maximum enjoyment of all high definition sources. Other advantages include full HD 1080p video upscaling with 3 HDMI inputs, HD Radio tuner, as well as exclusive Yamaha features such as Pure Direct,YPAO sound optimization and four SCENE buttons.
RX-V863 Black Swatch
Specifications
Channels 7
RMS Output Power (20Hz - 20kHz) 105W x 7
RMS Output Power (1kHz)
Total Power (20Hz - 20kHz) 735W
Dolby TrueHD
Dolby Digital EX/ Dolby Pro Logic IIx (Plus)
DTS-HD Master Audio
DTS-ES Discrete 6.1
DTS 96/24 / DTS Neo:6
Pure Direct
HD Radio Tuner
iPod Compatibility (With Optional YDS-10)
Bluetooth Compatibility (With Optional YBA-10)
Compressed Music Enhancer
Neural Surround
XM HD Surround
SRS (Circle Surround II)
THX Processing
Sirius Satellite Radio Ready
XM Satellite Radio Ready
HDMI (In/Out) (3 / 1) Ver. 1.3
i.Link (IEEE 1394)
Component Video (In/Out) (3 / 1)
A/V Inputs (S-Video) 5 (All S-Video)
Digital Inputs/Outputs [O: Optical, C: Coaxial] (O: 4, C: 2 / O: 1)
Front A/V with Digital Input (S-Video / Optical)
Front Mini Input for Portables
Front USB Input For Flash Memory Drives
LAN Terminal RJ-45 Network Connection
D/A Conversion 192 kHz / 24 bit
Surround Programs 17
Night Listening Enhancer
DCDi Processing
Time Base Corrector
HDMI Up Conversion (Scale to 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p)
Component Video Up Conversion
S-Video Up Conversion
Dialogue Lift
YPAO (w/Optimizer Microphone)
On-Screen Display
Assignable Power Amp
Zone Speaker Terminals
Zone 2 Output (Audio Only)
Zone 3 Output
Zone 4 Output
Zone Power Switching Main/ Zone2 (Front Panel)
Zone Remote Control
RS-232C Interface
+12V Trigger Output
IR Ports
Receiver Manager Software
Speaker A, B or A + B
Selectable Subwoofer Crossover
Multi-Channel Decoder Inputs 8-Channel
Pre-Out All Channels
Learning Remote Capability Preset
Macro Command Capability
Product Dimensions (W x H x D) 17-1/8" x 6-3/4" x 16-1/2"
Product Weight (lbs.) 26.2
Shipping Dimensions (W X H X D) 20-3/4" x 10-3/4" x 21"
Shipping Weight (LBS) 34

Does anyone know if the DACS (24bit/192kHz) are Burr-Brown's? This could be a deal breaker! Does nayone know the THD %?
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post #2 of 1006 Old 03-27-2008, 09:34 PM
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All channels are BB Dacs
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post #3 of 1006 Old 03-27-2008, 09:54 PM
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Funny, someone with 4 posts a Bose "5.0" setup created the "official" thread? The truth is that the V863 is only a slightly better buy than your Bose 5.0 system! The Yamaha RX-V663 has all of the necessary features and it is less than half the price! If you like to overpay for things then the V863 is for you!
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post #4 of 1006 Old 03-27-2008, 10:07 PM
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Oh yea this receiver can not up convert 1080p component to 1080p HDMI. That is the same limitation that the RX-V663 has.
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post #5 of 1006 Old 03-27-2008, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Funny, someone with 4 posts a Bose "5.0" setup created the "official" thread? The truth is that the V863 is only a slightly better buy than your Bose 5.0 system! The Yamaha RX-V663 has all of the necessary features and it is less than half the price! If you like to overpay for things then the V863 is for you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Oh yea this receiver can not up convert 1080p component to 1080p HDMI. That is the same limitation that the RX-V663 has.

Stop spreading this wrong info pls: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/De...p_items=567422

Unlike your beloved 663 the 863 DOES SCALES/CONVERT everything 1080p via HDMi. It's (HTR-6180 is essentially the same unit) specs clearly say "(Scale to 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p)", period.
1080p over component isn't even part of AACS/HDCP if I'm not mistaking here...
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post #6 of 1006 Old 03-28-2008, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post

Stop spreading this wrong info pls: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/De...p_items=567422

Unlike your beloved 663 the 863 DOES SCALES/CONVERT everything 1080p via HDMi. It's (HTR-6180 is essentially the same unit) specs clearly say "(Scale to 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p)", period.
1080p over component isn't even part of AACS/HDCP if I'm not mistaking here...

Well actually, the Yamaha RX-V863 manual(page 19) states the following:

The analog component video signals with 1080p of resolution
are ONLY output at the COMPONENT VIDEO MONITOR OUT
jacks.

That is the exact same sentence that the RX-V663 has. Unfortunately, Yamaha is a bit misleading when they say that it will "Scale to 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p".

Remember just because there is a period at the end of the sentence doesn't mean that there is not a disclaimer at the end of the page. Maybe you should read more instead of trying to call people out?
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post #7 of 1006 Old 03-28-2008, 06:22 AM
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Half a dozen posts into the thread and we have our first fight...
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post #8 of 1006 Old 03-28-2008, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james.92 View Post

Half a dozen posts into the thread and we have our first fight...

No, no fighting here. Simply a restatement of what the manual says. Heck the manual could be wrong? However, I always put my money on the manual before the specs or a website!

They can easily weasel out of specs listed on a website(Change the website and claim it never said that). It is not so easy to change the manual without everyone knowing!
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post #9 of 1006 Old 03-28-2008, 01:16 PM
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You also get 3 HDMI's on the 863. HD Radio (for those that listen to their tuners)
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post #10 of 1006 Old 03-29-2008, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Well actually, the Yamaha RX-V863 manual(page 19) states the following:

The analog component video signals with 1080p of resolution
are ONLY output at the COMPONENT VIDEO MONITOR OUT
jacks.

That is the exact same sentence that the RX-V663 has. Unfortunately, Yamaha is a bit misleading when they say that it will "Scale to 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p".

Remember just because there is a period at the end of the sentence doesn't mean that there is not a disclaimer at the end of the page. Maybe you should read more instead of trying to call people out?

Can anyone OWNING the 863 verify the Component 1080p to HDMI 1080p question? It would be very much appreciated. I too thought the specs said it would and also then read in the manual and was disappointed.

I am trying to decide on a receiver in the next week as my HT build is coming to an end. I like the extra HDMI and also would like the component to HDMI upscale/conversion to be as flexible as possible. Thanks in advance.
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post #11 of 1006 Old 03-29-2008, 08:06 AM
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It does not have I-Link. This is a feature I would buy into right now for that price.
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post #12 of 1006 Old 03-29-2008, 07:11 PM
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The question that really begs to be answered for me as a separates user is this, wil this machine make an improvement over the RX-V3800 uses as a processor, given that it has better DACs for all channels and not just fronts. Does it use PCM 1796 like the 3800? Video is no concern to me, as the ReonVX in my HC5000 24p will take care of anything.

My system:
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post #13 of 1006 Old 03-30-2008, 09:56 AM
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Audioholics indicates it does upscale and convert 480 to 1080p:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/r...yamaha-rx-v863

"Want to take advantage of that single cable to your display but don't feel like upgrading all your source components? No problem, the Yamaha RX-V863 performs analogue video (480i or 480p) upscaling to 1080p. 7.1 channel analogue inputs will keep you future-proof in case Toshiba decides to make another run at high definition DVD using crystals or something. Of course, 7.1 analogue preamp outputs are available for integration with external amps."

Does everyone agree now that this receiver upscales to 1080p?
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post #14 of 1006 Old 03-30-2008, 09:59 AM
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I am planning to purchase this receiver this week and wanted to confirm it does upscale to 1080p? If it does, I have found that this is the least expensive receiver that upscales lower resolution to full 1080p resolution.

I was thinking about buying the Panasonic PT-AE-2000U projector and thought the Yamaha would make a nice match.

Any thoughts, comments, or reccomendations?

Thanks!
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post #15 of 1006 Old 03-30-2008, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the constructive inputs! I opened an official thread, because it's a new product and ummm there wasn't one! I am researching avr's and am still considering the 663. While it doesn't have a HD tuner, only 2 HDMI inputs, and the upconversion (yes to 1080p) on the 663 doesn't appear to be scalable (possibly pass thru only). The 663 does in fact have B/B DACs like the 863. I want a future proof receiver. The 863 looks like the better choice. After all these posts, I still don't know the THD% for the 863! I'll assume it to be .05% unless someone who actually owns this rcvr can state otherwise? Also noticeably absent on the 663 is a much needed (analog) PHONO-IN jack, whereas the 863 has one! (Did anybody else notice that?). And that is why this thread is opened! Since when is comparing notes with those who are better informed a bad thing ???
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post #16 of 1006 Old 03-30-2008, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post

Audioholics indicates it does upscale and convert 480 to 1080p:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/r...yamaha-rx-v863

"Want to take advantage of that single cable to your display but don't feel like upgrading all your source components? No problem, the Yamaha RX-V863 performs analogue video (480i or 480p) upscaling to 1080p. 7.1 channel analogue inputs will keep you future-proof in case Toshiba decides to make another run at high definition DVD using crystals or something. Of course, 7.1 analogue preamp outputs are available for integration with external amps."

Does everyone agree now that this receiver upscales to 1080p?

Never said it wouldn't upscale to 1080p. However, it WILL NOT pass 1080p analog through to HDMI at 1080p. Those are two different things.
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post #17 of 1006 Old 03-30-2008, 06:05 PM
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I understand your point but if you have a 1080p video source and you connect an HDMI cable from the receiver to the video source, your concern should never be an issue if not using component video connections, right?

Audioholics review on the Yamaha 663 receiver points out the reason for the $450 price difference between it and the 863 receivers, namely the video processing capabilities:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/r...yamaha-rx-v663

The Yamaha RX-V663 has many of the same features as the RX-V863 but with some notable omissions. First the similarities:

Both decode all the latest audio formats including Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS HD. Both have HDMI 1.3 inputs and plenty of analogue connections (including 3 in / 1 out component video). Both have 17 surround modes, YPAO auto calibration, and are XM and Sirius ready. While the RX-V663 is sporting 10 less watts per channel, you'll probably never notice. They both have two subwoofer outputs which is a very desirable feature in our book. Quality Burr-Brown 192kHz/24 bit DACs and ADCs are in use and your rear channels can be assigned to zone two or to bi-amp your mains. In fact, the two receivers are more alike than dissimilar.




So where does your extra $450 go? Sure there are some extra connections on the RX-V863 (2 more optical, one more HDMI) which takes up a little of it. The RX-V663 lacks an HD radio tuner and SRS circle surround II (another matrixing algorithm) and probably a bigger power supply and transformer but that's not really $450 is it? No, it's the lack of 1080p upscaling for 480i/p analogue video sources.


While for some, this is not a deal-breaker, for others it very well may be. Uconversion and scaling is not cheap and if you are looking for a quality external scaler, $450 might not seem that unreasonable to you. Now if your sources are usually a Blu-ray player and a high def digital cable box, you may not see the need for internal scaling (and you'd be right). But if you are still holding on to that old VHS collection or perhaps just want your home movies to look as good as possible on your new big screen, the internal scaling might be very attractive to you. In our experience most displays do a fine job without the AV receiver lending a hand.

So if most of my DVD collection is low resolution, and I am purchasing a 1080p projector, wouldn't the 863 suit my needs perfectly as the low-res DVD's would be upscaled to 1080p and look great on my projector?

Am I missing something? Can someone educate me?

Is there a better receiver than the 863 for the money out there that gives up the 1080p upscaling capabilitiy?

Thanks!

Thanks!
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post #18 of 1006 Old 03-31-2008, 04:45 AM
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Why would you pay for the "not cheap" upscaling twice? Your TV has this functionality already. You have already paid for it and it usually works better in the TV. Save the $450 and spend it on speakers where it will really make a difference!
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post #19 of 1006 Old 03-31-2008, 06:16 AM
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So you're telling me a Panasonic 1080p projector (PT-AE2000U) does all of the upscaling I need from 480 or 720 to 1080p? I didn't know this. Are you sure?

So if I merely connect my standard defiinition DVD player into a receiver that doesn't to the upscaling, the projector will do so?
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post #20 of 1006 Old 03-31-2008, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post

So you're telling me a Panasonic 1080p projector (PT-AE2000U) does all of the upscaling I need from 480 or 720 to 1080p? I didn't know this. Are you sure?

So if I merely connect my standard defiinition DVD player into a receiver that doesn't to the upscaling, the projector will do so?

All TV’s upscale(or downscale) to their native resolution. If you have a TV with a "True" native resolution of 1920x1080(1080p) then it will scale every input to that resolution to display it. Some TVs are better at doing this than others. However, there are reports that almost all TVs are better than most receivers at doing this.

I have never done upscaling via a receiver. However, I have done 480i upscaling with a computer(The best scaling there is! Ffdshow and TomsmocompII) and compared it to my TVs scaler. The TV scaler was not as good but it definitely was not $400 difference. More like $50 difference.
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post #21 of 1006 Old 03-31-2008, 11:28 AM
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I got myself an RX-V863 and so far I must say, I am pretty impressed by it. First, my reasons for purchasing this over the 663 is mostly for the 3 HDMI inputs plus the upscaling to 1080p.

I have this receiver hooked up to a set of Monitor Audio R90's (L, R, Surrounds), R180 (Center) and a BA XB4 subwoofer speakers. My inputs are Toshiba DVD player via component and optical, Comcast HD-Receiver (optical audio only, video connected directly to monitor), CD Player (Analog Stereo and optical), HTPC (Analog 5.1 audio only, video connected directly to monitor)

The sound that the unit puts out is amazing. When watching DVD's, TV or Videos on my HTPC, the dialog is clear and the dynamic range is excellent! So far I am pretty happy with this purchase. (The unit runs a little warm to touch but not hot)

The unit did a pretty decent job of upscaling the DVD output to 1080p. It is fairly close to the Faroudja DCDi equipped Onkyo's and the colors are fairly even when compared to the original. The same DVD looked better when played back on my HTPC. However, the improvement in quality from my HTPC vs DVD+863 is not significant enough for me to ditch the DVD player for the HTPC for DVD playback (better usability from my DVD player than MCE)

I also tried the various surround modes for CD playback using both analog and optical inputs and they all sounded alright but the best was straight stereo with the subwoofer on. The receiver D-to-A produced a much richer and cleaner sound than the CD player's analog output. The unit handled the dynamic range of the music very well (but this is likely more a testament of the speakers than the receiver)

Here are my gripes....

1) The Comcast HD-Receiver only has DVI out configured to 1080i. Using a DVI-to-HDMI cable did not work. I got an error message that this Set-Top Box is not supported. After doing some reading through the manual, it because this link is not HDCP protected!! Aargh!!
2) I could not route the HTPC's DVI output through it for the same reason. (I wish Nvidia would release an HDMI capable graphics card!)
3) The remote control sucks! I have no idea how to map all the buttons for the HTPC and the Comcast receiver. In TV mode, the navigation buttons don't work. There is no way to add macros. I gave up after a couple of hours and decided to replace this with a Logitech Harmony 880.
4) No optical input for CD playback. I had to connect it to the MD input instead. (Took me about 5 minutes to remember I did this...I'm getting old!)

Things to try....

1) HD-Radio
2) Ipod (have to pick up the optional dock)
3) Add an SPDIF output to my HTPC. (Current audio output is analog multi-channel only)
3) Any other recommended tests?

TK
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post #22 of 1006 Old 03-31-2008, 04:02 PM
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Is $599 a good price for the 863?
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post #23 of 1006 Old 03-31-2008, 04:19 PM
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That's an excellent price! May I ask where you saw this?

TK
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post #24 of 1006 Old 03-31-2008, 04:43 PM
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I can get this for $513 with my discount and the 663 for $315!


PSN: J_Rodz2588
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post #25 of 1006 Old 03-31-2008, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkripala View Post

That's an excellent price! May I ask where you saw this?

I will let you know after I pick mine up. Actually my friend who works near Santa Monica said he walked into an electronics store that was starting to open up. He asked if they had the 863, thinking they didn't, but they did and sold it to him for $599 + tax. So I called and the guy told me to come in and they would sell me one at that price also. My friend told me that they look like a place that's gearing up to be an online dealer because there were no display types of furniture in the store.

Anyway, if the previous poster ^^^ is willing to share his discount, I would go for that instead.
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post #26 of 1006 Old 03-31-2008, 06:08 PM
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At $513, that's almost 50% off MSRP!! How in the world can they afford this? By my rough estimate, the manufacturing BOM to Yamaha would be around $350-400 (before shipping, distribution, retail markups). Must be a real firesale going on.....

TK
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post #27 of 1006 Old 04-02-2008, 02:32 PM
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ok I'm itching for an answer.. online orders?.. please update

I will let you know after I pick mine up. Actually my friend who works near Santa Monica said he walked into an electronics store that was starting to open up. He asked if they had the 863, thinking they didn't, but they did and sold it to him for $599 + tax. So I called and the guy told me to come in and they would sell me one at that price also. My friend told me that they look like a place that's gearing up to be an online dealer because there were no display types of furniture in the store.

Anyway, if the previous poster ^^^ is willing to share his discount, I would go for that instead.
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post #28 of 1006 Old 04-02-2008, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkripala View Post

At $513, that's almost 50% off MSRP!! How in the world can they afford this? By my rough estimate, the manufacturing BOM to Yamaha would be around $350-400 (before shipping, distribution, retail markups). Must be a real firesale going on.....

Most audio is marked up about 50%.... They are selling for very near cost.

Can this unit take DTS-MA and matrix it to 7.1? (663 = no)

Does this unit clip Blacker that Black? (663 = yes)

Just wondering what other features are gained for more money.
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post #29 of 1006 Old 04-02-2008, 04:24 PM
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Doesn't the 863 have one more HDMI input, and a more capable video processor (by more capable, I mean it has a few more processing features, it may not produce better VQ)

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #30 of 1006 Old 04-02-2008, 08:49 PM
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It does have 3 HDMI inputs and supports up to 1080p output. Analog component conversion up to 1080p as well. Upscaling quality is not much better than most stand-alone upscaling DVD players (eg Samsung and LG) but my HTPC does a better job of upscaling.

Kmannth, I'm not sure how to test DTS-MA and check black clipping.

TK
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