Originally Posted by Fanboyz
because I am in awe of the 5805s size. Also pcm1791 is the flagship BB DAC.
No, the DSD1792 is the "flagship" DAC but the PCM1796 seems to be the one being used more often now in the higher end models; at least the ones using BB DAC's. Pioneer have opted for 6 six Wolfson WM8741 DAC's on their new SC-09TX.http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/...ct%20flyer.pdf
Have you looked at the cost per chip? The DSD1792 is several times more than the PCM1791A. The dynamic range is almost 20dB more as well.
Burr-Brown PCM1791A 113dB SNR $ 3.00/ea Yamaha RX-V3800, Yamaha RX-V1800, Denon 3808, 4308 and DVD-2930CI
Burr-Brown PCM1796 123dB SNR $ 6.50/ea Yamaha RX-Z11, Onkyo 805/875/905, Denon 5308CI and DVD-3930CI
Burr-Brown PCM1792A 127dB SNR $13.00/ea ?
Burr-Brown PCM1792 132dB SNR $13.65/ea Yamaha RX-Z9, Denon 5805ci and DVD-5910
I think you can see by which receivers are using which DAC's that the 1791 is not the flagship.
Originally Posted by kmannth
I don't mean to stir up trouble here but I can't help but thinking shoping for units based on the DAC it sort of odd. It seems of me the DAC (of modern vintage) and the AMP(that can deliver the power you need) have the least to do with how things will sound.
DACs are cheap, they convert 0's and 1's to up and down electrical waves. They have been building high quality dacs now for sometime. I think the 663 and 863 are the newest AVRs (they have been on the market maybe a month) that have been built so it might just be that they got the latest dac. This does not mean sound from the z11 and 663 (used as a pre-pro) will be the same (but who knows if anyone has tried?).
Comparing DAC S/N ratios of DAC it like saying do I want really really good or really really really good. What is the S/N ratio of your speakers?
Overall design it what matter most.
No trouble to be stirred up at all. I would hope that within Onkyo's architecture the technology inside the 805-905 is better than the 505-605, the DAC accounting for some of this improvement also. If you want the full dynamic range of SACD you're going to try one component at a time to realize that; having a DAC with a dynamic range of 120dB or higher accomplishes this and the PCM1796 and PCM/DSD1792 both fit that category.
The DAC's are cheap but those prices listed are not per unit, they are no doubt for thousands at a time. If the DAC's were really "cheap" wouldn't they use the PCM1796 or PCM1792/DSD1792 in all receivers?
The Denon 4308CI is a fairly recent receiver too, but it only got PCM1791A DAC's while the Denon 5308CI received PCM1796 DAC's. The Onkyo 805 received PCM1796 as well, which was out before the 4308CI. The type of chip is not often mentioned by the CE, it's normally the bit depth and sampling rate that's mentioned. From what I can gather from the list the DAC used doesn't have much to do with the year of manufacture of the receiver, but rather the cost. The one exception to that rule seems to be Onkyo who seem to be the only CE using PCM1796 DAC's in a receiver under $2,000.
If the DAC is part of the overall design, it's just another thing to keep on your checklist along with your room architecture, speaker placement, cabling, etc. I'm hoping that Onkyo's TX-NR906 (806/876 as well) will feature PCM1796 DAC's as well, but also be able to utilize 24/196 TrueHD and dts-ma, which they currently do not. For TrueHD 24/196 sources only the left and right channels will come through, for dts-ma 24/196 sources they will be converted to 24/96. The TrueHD 24/192 thing bugs me, because I expect some 5.1 audio-only discs to arrive with multi-channel 24/192 at some point and I'd like to be able to listen to them; even if I can't ascertain the difference between 24/96 and 24/192 I can certainly hear the difference between stereo and multi-channel.
It's all part of the big picture. I know I've got a LONG way to go with my set-up before I'm to be sated.