Need a Receiver to fall in love with or hold me over until the 1018! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Well looks like I'll be waiting until June/July until the 1018.

So in the mean time I want to "buy" and demo a receiver that will hold me over and give me HDMI switching and allow HD Audio via PCM from my PS3 (well at least for the 30 days that I can keep it).

I know what I'm planning isn't the greatest thing in the world to be doing, but to be honest I have no other option right now. My 1014 is selling this weekend and I cannot be HOME THEATERLESS for MAY and JUNE.

So my plan is to buy a receiver from the local Best Buy or Circuit City and keep it for like 25 days and then return it before the 30 day return policy expires (IF I'M NOT 100% HAPPY!!!)

Then I will just buy another one from another store and keep it for about 25 days. That 50 day window should take me VERY close to the release of what seems to be "Dream" receiver which is the 1018! It has the power, functions and is a Pioneer....All of which are important to me since this is my Master Receiver for my dedicated Home Theater and I LOVE my 1014.

So it looks like my options from BB and CC are these.

Yamaha 663 and the Onkyo 605...

I'd like to keep the "purchase" under $500 for now since these technically will be posting on my credit card statements.

So which would you "buy" first to demo?? Any other SUB $500 options?


I should note......IF I fall in love with one of these during the demo period I'll have no problem just keeping it and being happy!

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post #2 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 08:10 AM
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You want to "use" a product and then intentionally return it to "hold you over"?

That's pretty dishonest and shows a major lack of integrity...

I imagine people are going to have a hard time giving recommendations under these circumstances...
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post #3 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 08:12 AM
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Not really worried too much about ethics are you?

Personally I wouldn't do either. I would eb@y something and then sell it back on eb@y when the time comes. I probably wouldn't take advantage of a return policy and leave these companies lower margins just because I sold my receiver too soon.

Not holier then thou, but its just my 2 cents.

Stagflation?? No effect!!
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post #4 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Seriously.....people do MUCH worse things in the world, and you want to call a DEMO period unethical???

I don't get it!

HONESTLY I'm demoing them. How else am I supposted to see if I like them? I already stated that if I LOVE the receiver after using it for 25 days then I'll keep it and this is not even an issue.

I'm only returning it if it doesn't give me everything I want.

Thats called in home trial....not unethical.

Companies...like SVS for instance, encourage you to BUY their product...put it to the tests and limits of what you want....and if you don't like it return it NO QUESTIONS ASKED and they give you 45 days.

I'm not trying to be dishonest....I'm just trying to Demo these to see if I like them.....if I'm not 100% happy I'll try something else....then if I'm not happy I'll try the 1018.

Hell there is a chance I might not like the 1018 too and I'd return it for something bigger and better.

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post #5 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 09:31 AM
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I noticed that you drastically edited your original post...

You originally stated your intentions of "using the receiver to hold you over, return it, then do the same thing again to further hold you over, then buy your "1018"...

This my friend, IS unethical and dishonest... Just because people do worse things in the world doesn't make yours acceptable...

IF you originally stated you wanted to demo different receivers until you found the one you wanted, that would of been a different story (which is now what your original post somewhat implies after editing )...

What exactly don't you get with our negative reactions on your original wanted actions?
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post #6 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I thought I made it clear in the ORIGINAL post by the BOLD ending statement that if I love them I intended to keep one of them.

But you and the others didn't get that part...or didn't read that part


SO...I reedited the original post to make it very very clear that I wasn't just pulling a scam....I was going to demo these....even though my heart is set on the 1018 and chances are good that I'll return them and get the 1018, UNLESS I fall in love with one of the ones I demo.

Thus I'm asking which to try first...

Yamaha 663 or the Onkyo 605.

OR any other Sub $500 options.

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post #7 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 10:27 AM
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Dishonest, unethical, sleazy behavior. No wonder our society is so F'd up.

CD

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post #8 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 11:01 AM
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I think we understood the gist of your ORIGINAL, ORIGINAL post pretty clearly. Do whatever you want. Who cares what we think. "Demo" whatever you want and sleep fine at night. So what. Just know that not everyone would go about it the way that you are. And don't try throwing it back up in people's face that they don't understand when your ORIGINAL intetions were pretty clear and unethical.

Stagflation?? No effect!!
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post #9 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 11:23 AM
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To the OP:

If there was a 15% restocking fee would you still do this? I own a retail store and throw guys like you out every day.
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post #10 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 11:39 AM
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BTW you can only return for a refund three times in a year. They basically flag people that return too much.
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post #11 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 11:41 AM
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My usually hyper-cynical view of mankind has been tempered by the outstanding responses to the original post. Good job guys. Let's see if he comes back and tries yet another spin on his intentions.
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post #12 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 12:32 PM
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I am not condoning the purchase of an item where the buyer knowingly purchased just to "hold them over" until what they really wanted comes out. That type of action is flat out wrong.

However, how many times do people on this board say "audition it" and "there is really no way to tell if you will like it unless you have it in your own environment listening to it." I know I have said it because I believe it to be true. In the past 10-12 years, I have spend TENS of THOUSANDS on equipment that sounded good in the store only to get it home and not be impressed with it.

My most recent search: looking for a new receiver. I first purchased an Oknyo 805. My initial impression is it was an amazing upgrade over my previous yamaha except it kept shutting down on me (yes there was adequate ventilation). I could not find another one locally for remotely near street price. So I decided to look at other receivers and I had a reference point with the Onkyo. In my search, I demo'd in my home, with my speakers, a yamaha 1800, pio 94txh and denon 3808. Each one was purchased locally. When I went to the stores researching these models, I specifically asked the sales person and managers if they have a demo model so that I may audition the unit in my environment. I even offered a deposit and to sign an agreement stating I only had X days and if the unit was not returned I would be charged full retail. Each store said I should just purchase it and if it doesn't work out and I am not satisfied, I should just return it. Guess what I did...I purchased each of these receivers and set them up in my environment. 2 went back and 1 stayed in my house.

Do I feel like I cheated anyone or did some dishonest deed because I knew I was only going to keep 1? Not in the slightest. I am a consumer who works hard for my money and wants to make an informed decision seeing as it will be in my home.

My 2 cents...
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post #13 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 12:58 PM
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Why MUST you have a 1018? There are plenty of Fish in the sea allready Migh look at a onkyo 705. When are you selling to 1014 early? Tell then no and wait a few months

Just get a good deal on a yamaha 663 or 661(used?) or any other cheap PS3 AVR and then sell it when you get you new bits.

The buy/return things is not very nice and a big hassle (how may time do you have to do it?) in general.

Have Fun!
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post #14 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 01:01 PM
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In your case, the retailer knew what you were doing. And I think that if the OP told them that up front, then it would be better. I agree on what they say. Buy it, if it doesn't work out, then return it. Everyone knows up front what is going on. However, the OP, as good as he has changed his intensions to be, was pretty clear that it was a Onk from CC, 25 days, return, then a Yam from BB, 25 days, return, 50 days later, new Pioneer, yippie.

Stagflation?? No effect!!
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post #15 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm so amazed how people say BUY IT AND TRY IT. NOW you are telling me thats UNETHICAL and HORRIBLE.

Should I just use the ****** in store speakers hooked up and not dialed in to make my choice?

Seriously boys.....BUY AND TRY is the way the world works.

My ORIGINAL intent was to BUY and TRY even though I have a good feeling the 1018 is the one for me....but I wanted to be sure, thus I could audition for 25days and return...then audition another for 25 days and return. THEN buy a 1018 and try it....

That would give me 3 different auditions and a very good sense of me having what I want. I think Don't h8 is the only one who understands my thought process.

Nothing sucks more than BUYERS REMORSE.....when you buy something and sit there thinking "I wonder if XXXX is better".

This way I KNOW if XXXX is better.


ps....why would I buy a new one and sell again when the 1018 comes out.....in case you didn't know electronics don't really hold their full value when used...

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post #16 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 03:44 PM
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Just plain stinks. I do not know why people just cannot wait for the one they truly "think" they want to come in. Buying something with even the smallest intent on returning it "to just hold you over" drives up the cost of retailers and ultimately all of us. Just plain stinks.
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post #17 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 03:48 PM
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I have to wait a couple months here myself for what I'm wanting. I'm buying a inexpensive receiver now and will later sell it as used. I only return something if I have to. And waiting for something often takes longer than originally thought anyway.
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post #18 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

ps....why would I buy a new one and sell again when the 1018 comes out.....in case you didn't know electronics don't really hold their full value when used...

Becase you don't want to have to go to the store 3 times and re-wire and dial in your rack every 25 days. I guess I have more money than time at this point in my life.

No one is saying auditioning is bad. Normally folks have their A first. You are wanting all the B and Cs before the A in a non overlapping fashion.
AVR's A, B and C

You A is the 1018 as stated. You really think you want that one. I am guessing you will try it out in june (or when ever you get it). You won't really be able to compare it to the first AVR you tried. It not a comparison it is a rental. This is why big box stores with liberal returns cost more than a place you have to pay the shipping cost back

Have fun!
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post #19 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 04:06 PM
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Why not go somewhere that will sell you your 1018, cut a deal with them where you give them a deposit (or hell, prepay for the whole thing) and they rent you a loaner until your receiver of choice comes in.

If you loved the 1014, you'll love the 1018, and no matter what else you "try" you will find enough reason to reject it while you wait for the 1018.

The biggest question of all is, why did you sell your 1014 before you had your 1018 in your hands?

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post #20 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 04:15 PM
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It is their DAMN policy! They advertise it. They use it as a selling point to get you in the store to sell $200 freaking monster cables! I say there is absolutely nothing wrong with using their "Advertised" policy.

Get the Yamaha RX-V663 and who knows you might "find out how much better it is than the 1018"! Before you flame me for that statement! That one was a joke. My first paragraph was not. Flame away on that one.
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post #21 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

It is their DAMN policy! They advertise it.

That's an outright lie. The policy is there for honest customers not for people who set out to intentionally abuse it. But sociopaths don't give a s**t about little details like that.

CD

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post #22 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 04:34 PM
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Virtue is it's own reward.

If you CAN'T stand being without a unit. Find a small stereo shop that sells Pioneer gear. I bet you dollars to donuts they'll lend you a receiver for 2 months if you put a down payment on a 1018. It may cost you more this way, but you get what you want.

-comix
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post #23 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post

That's an outright lie. The policy is there for honest customers not for people who set out to intentionally abuse it. But sociopaths don't give a s**t about little details like that.

CD

Let me see? I seem to remember a CC commercial where the guy brings back a DVD player and he is clearly trying to make up reasons why he just doesn't want the item anymore. The clerk says no need to make excuses we don't require you to tell us why you are returning it. That is what they advertised so that is what I expect!

Is that enough of the little details for you?
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post #24 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Let me see? I seem to remember a CC commercial where the guy brings back a DVD player and he is clearly trying to make up reasons why he just doesn't want the item anymore. The clerk says no need to make excuses we don't require you to tell us why you are returning it. That is what they advertised so that is what I expect!

Is that enough of the little details for you?



THANK YOU!!!

And seriously...when is BB and CC going to start to match places like J&R, 6th ave, amazon...

These places are the ones killing them because their prices are so much better! It is not me returning something that is hurting them, it's their JACKED UP PRICES!

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post #25 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 07:47 PM
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You can always find someone who will agree with your position. That does not make it any less wrong or unethical.

If you truly were going to "audition" the receiver, then no problem taking it back if you ultimately decide to get another. However, when I read your op (the edited version even) my impression was that you were borrowing, not auditioning. That is unethical. The liberal return policies are premised on the good faith of the purchaser that the purchase is authentic, ie, that the purchaser is actually, truthfully buying the product with the real possibility that they may keep the product.

Maybe you were just trying to be funny. Maybe you were inartful in what you wrote. So if you were honestly going to audition the receiver, no one should think ill of you. If your intent was to borrow it ... thanks for driving prices up for everyone else.
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post #26 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 08:20 PM
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Your original view was not "try it and return it if you aren't satisfied"... Your original view was.... "help me pick a receiver to use for 30 days, then return it, then try another for 30 days, then return it, then buy the 1018, because I just can't go without my home theater..."


I have no problem with trying out 100 receivers until you are completely satisfied, but were not talking about trying out a receiver, were talking about "using a receiver to hold you over"... THIS WAS YOUR ORIGINAL INTENTION UNTIL YOU EDITED IT!

Those who believe its ok to "buy something just to get use out of it with the intention of not keeping it" is dishonest, morally wrong, and shows no integrity...
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post #27 of 41 Old 04-25-2008, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Let me see? I seem to remember a CC commercial where the guy brings back a DVD player and he is clearly trying to make up reasons why he just doesn't want the item anymore. The clerk says no need to make excuses we don't require you to tell us why you are returning it. That is what they advertised so that is what I expect!

Is that enough of the little details for you?

Yes and how is CC doing as a business? Do I hear bankrupt?
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post #28 of 41 Old 04-26-2008, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Let me see? I seem to remember a CC commercial where the guy brings back a DVD player and he is clearly trying to make up reasons why he just doesn't want the item anymore. The clerk says no need to make excuses we don't require you to tell us why you are returning it. That is what they advertised so that is what I expect!

Is that enough of the little details for you?

It's bizzare interpretations like yours that so many use to justify unethical behavior today. FUBAR.

CD

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post #29 of 41 Old 04-26-2008, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post

It's bizzare interpretations like yours that so many use to justify unethical behavior today. FUBAR.

CD

Have you ever seen that commercial? It pretty much went exactly as I described it.

Basically, I look at it this way. I purchase some items that I know I will like and I would only take them back if they break within 30 days. I also buy some items I am not sure if I will like and I might take those back just because they don't do what I want. I also buy a few items that I either know nothing about or that I think are sub-par but the item I want is out of stock. In those cases I would only keep the item if it exceeds my expectations or if the other item never gets in stock. either way Best Buy gets my money and I am sure they still make money on the transactions or they would be in CC's position.

I believe all of the above scenarios fit well within the BB and CC return policy. I see absolutely nothing wrong with trying an item that you don't expect to be as good as another.

I actually bet that CC and BB don't mind people returning a couple of items a year because they put open box items out there at virtually list price. BB isn't loosing a significant amount on their return policy or they would change it. CC is failing because they don't have enough cashiers. People will not wait in lines anymore.
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post #30 of 41 Old 04-26-2008, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Have you ever seen that commercial? It pretty much went exactly as I described it.

Basically, I look at it this way. I purchase some items that I know I will like and I would only take them back if they break within 30 days. I also buy some items I am not sure if I will like and I might take those back just because they don't do what I want. I also buy a few items that I either know nothing about or that I think are sub-par but the item I want is out of stock. In those cases I would only keep the item if it exceeds my expectations or if the other item never gets in stock. either way Best Buy gets my money and I am sure they still make money on the transactions or they would be in CC's position.

I believe all of the above scenarios fit well within the BB and CC return policy. I see absolutely nothing wrong with trying an item that you don't expect to be as good as another.

I actually bet that CC and BB don't mind people returning a couple of items a year because they put open box items out there at virtually list price. BB isn't loosing a significant amount on their return policy or they would change it. CC is failing because they don't have enough cashiers. People will not wait in lines anymore.

Either way, your view on the return policy still doesn't warrant the actions of the op, as they are completely different scenario's. He originally stated (before he edited his first post) his intentions were to return the product and use it just to hold him over until he got the 1018.

I agree with you that those who aren't completely satisfied SHOULD return the product, and it is their right (in accordance with this particular return policy) to try a product out they believe may be satisfactory but have doubts. This has nothing to do with "using a product to hold me over"...

Taking advantage of a return policy for personal gain is wrong, IMO.

Lets look at another scenario of trying something out for personal gain without the intention of purchasing it:

That would be like saying, "I'm gonna test drive a car so I can go to the mall because I don't want to pay for a taxi, and I don't have a car now and I just can't go without shopping!"... How many people agree with this scenario?

This is pretty much dead on with saying "I'm gonna buy, use, return, then buy, use, return a product to hold me over until I can get the receiver I want because I just can't go without my home theater"...
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