Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 05:17 AM
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The SC-09TX/SC-LX90 isnt by any chance multi-voltage? Accepting both 110V and 230V?
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post #272 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 05:29 AM
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The manual says 117V, 60Hz. I think they have country or region specific models to deal with this. It is hard to make a high power device have multivoltages and maintain full power.

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post #273 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 09:37 AM
 
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Well you can probably bet on one thing for sure is that Pioneer knows the spec's and feature set on the Denon competition, if they already haven't physically dissected one in the lab. Would they shoot for second best with this new high level player? Coincidence, that it is at the same price level as Denon player?

You can also probably bet that all these components are being tested to work together. In other words, no weak links in the chain (i.e. bdp-09fd---->sc-09tx----->elite kuro plasma/lcd) I read, I think, in one of those links above, that Pioneer's (i.e. players, AVR, flat panels) divisions are working more closely together on these units lately.

I'm wondering if that BDP-05fd player is regarded the match for the SC-05tx and an BDP-07fd, no mention of yet, will be the match for the SC-07tx? Of course, I'm sure all these players/receivers/panels can be used independent of each other too. But, I'm thinking some special goodness is going to come out of using all these components as a whole.

This new BDP-09FD player is supposed to be THX certified and Air Studios certified. I don't remember any DVD players being THX certified before and I'm sure there must be plenty of hurdles and fire to walk through in order to pass testing on those devices. Air Studios testing is no cake walk either I understand from reading and videos.
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post #274 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon Eddie View Post

I don't remember any DVD players being THX certified before

Denon and Onkyo have made THX certified DVD players in the past...

Quote:


and I'm sure there must be plenty of hurdles and fire to walk through in order to pass testing on those devices.

While there is a process to go through, I think the biggest hurdle is figuring out which hand you need to sign the check to THX with.
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post #275 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


http://66.102.9.104/translate_c?hl=e...z1HBsp2tnaIdZw

http://66.102.9.104/translate_c?hl=e...2E-SJ9QAHCv-qw

I've attached the shots showing circuit boards, but you'll have to go to the web pages for captions.





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post #276 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 10:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Denon and Onkyo have made THX certified DVD players in the past...


While there is a process to go through, I think the biggest hurdle is figuring out which hand you need to sign the check to THX with.

If you prefer to argue a simple statement or are looking to argue, let's just say "I" have not seen that many of them and hence they are not a dime a dozen.

Denon and Onkyo also haven't made THX certified DVD players in the past. So what are those statements? More purposeless arguments?

You may think so, but I highly doubt it. It's not in a businesses best interest to throw money down a rat hole.
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post #277 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 10:57 AM
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Well, BAX is definitely the way to go when shipping this unit. The 3rd receiver arrived in one piece, and several days quicker than any other ground service.

It was very late by the time I got everything setup and running, so I was a bit cranky, but to my great dissapointment I found that the SC-09 breaks my golden rule of audio gear (for serious audio gear, that is). It has a fan. Unfurtunately, the old cliches of blackest backgrounds cannot apply when one can hear the constant grinding and whirring of a fan. What a shame.


Very, very unfortunately for me, my A/V rack is within 4' of the main listening position in my theater, and the receiver is at ear level. I may try putting the receiver on the bottom shelf to see if that helps.

Otherwise, I'd venture a guess that at a minimum of 6' the whir of the fan would be nearly inaudible, and at 8' I'm sure that it would be silent. Anyone interested in this unit, and meeting those criteria feel free to PM me with an offer in the event that I can't make this work. There is no need to pay anywhere near $7K for this piece.

Aside from the fan, which is a problem because of my specific setup, this piece is absolutely killer!
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post #278 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 10:59 AM
 
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Those are some beautious snippets of the SC-09tx innards SS9001 pulled up on those above threads. They are most lovely indeed.
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post #279 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon Eddie View Post

You may think so, but I highly doubt it. It's not in a businesses best interest to throw money down a rat hole.

It's a business decision made by marketing people.. there are plenty of players that will exhibit the same, or even better, performance than a THX certified piece of gear. Most good BD players would exceed THX's performance requirements for BD playback.

That being said, most marketing people understand that branding means something to some consumers... they find it money well spent, and pass the cost along to buyers.
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post #280 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 11:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

It's a business decision made by marketing people.. there are plenty of players that will exhibit the same, or even better, performance than a THX certified piece of gear. Most good BD players would exceed THX's performance requirements for BD playback.

That being said, most marketing people understand that branding means something to some consumers... they find it money well spent, and pass the cost along to buyers.

I did not ask you if there are other players that outperform THX gear that don't have the logo??? You bring that up yourself. It was Pioneers decision to have this done; not mine or yours. So what does this prove?
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post #281 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon Eddie View Post

I did not ask you if there are other players that outperform THX gear that don't have the logo??? You bring that up yourself. It was Pioneers decision to have this done; not mine or yours. So what does this prove?

So I'm not allowed to "bring up" pertinent points to support my position (that THX is a marketing based business that doesn't materially add to the quality of a product, but just certifies it)?

I think my post addressed your comment directly.. it doesn't "prove" anything...

Where did I assert it was anyone else's decision than Pioneers?


I'll make sure in the future that my replies to you are terse and don't try and open up the conversation.
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post #282 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

So I'm not allowed to "bring up" pertinent points to support my position (that THX is a marketing based business that doesn't materially add to the quality of a product, but just certifies it)?

I think my post addressed your comment directly.. it doesn't "prove" anything...

Where did I assert it was anyone else's decision than Pioneers?


I'll make sure in the future that my replies to you are terse and don't try and open up the conversation.


Whom are you trying to convince of what? Are you trying to convince me? Anyway, this is pointless and I'm done with it.
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post #283 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbawilly View Post

..Very, very unfortunately for me, my A/V rack is within 4' of the main listening position in my theater, and the receiver is at ear level. I may try putting the receiver on the bottom shelf to see if that helps.

Otherwise, I'd venture a guess that at a minimum of 6' the whir of the fan would be nearly inaudible, and at 8' I'm sure that it would be silent...

Bubbawilly,

Mine is right below ear level, 5 ft right behind my head at 180 deg & for me the fan is absolutely not an audible problem or distraction. Maybe you have more of your hearing intact

I literally have to get within 1 ft away of the chassis to hear the fan & then its so very faint that I would not be aware of it until I turned the 09 off. I've listened to acoustic & classical music and have not heard the fan from my seating position.

To put it in perspective, I have an HD-XA2 player sitting the same distance right beside the SC-09, and its fan makes far more noise than you will ever hear from the SC-09, subjectively maybe 4 times louder. Hopefully, if you can hear the 09, I would think putting it on the lower shelf should do it for you, since any noise should be blocked by your seating.

Photos that have been posted showing the internals of the Ice amp section show the fan is oriented to blow directly across the Ice amp boards, so airflow is side-to-side and not front-to-back. My guess is that crossflow is preferable to keep more heat from rising thru the preamp section and minimize any audible effect. I thought it was a clever design actually.

BTW- I believe the 59TXi also had a fan, but I'm not sure it ever turned on. Under a high load, the top of the SC-09 will get quite warm. My guess is that just like in a PC a lot of heat is from the video proc board. But this is only a guess on my part based on the 09 seems to get the warmer watching movies compared to listening to music.

ss9001

Steve
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post #284 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 12:14 PM
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The top of this baby gets downright hot.

The fan shocked me. Digital amps are known for running cool, so I certainly wasn't expecting a fan for the amp section. Curious that the 59TXi had an inefficient, heat-producing analog amp section, yet the fan never engaged (I didn't even realize it had a fan). You are right. Once the SC-09 warms up, the fan runs constantly.

I'm sure that many, like yourself wouldn't find the fan in the SC-09 objectionable. I'm just highly sensitive to fan and/or transport noise, and it can be and has been a deal killer for me. I can't even imagine using a PS3 as a BD player. For me it would be like trying to watch a movie while sitting on the main runway at O'Hare.
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post #285 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbawilly View Post

The top of this baby gets downright hot.

Yes it does. So did my 59 under load driving 4 ohm speakers, but the 09 can get at least as hot or maybe hotter after watching a bombastic movie. That's why I think the video section may be adding to the heat load.

When will you be trying it on a lower shelf? I'm curious if that works for you.

Steve
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post #286 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 01:06 PM
 
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It appears the Yamaha's RX-Z11 uses multiple fan(s).
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post #287 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 04:14 PM
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The biggest issue for me is the PQLS over HDMI....
I will not be happy if in 2009 Pionner ships SC-LX91 or SC-LX100 with PQLS over hdmi...

Software upgrade for PQLS is too good to be true....
However Pioneer has hardware upgraded five years ago VSX-AX10 (49) to VSX-AX10i with Ilink here in Europe (Only the red Ilink light was missing from the front panel of the VSX-AX10 after the upgrade!)

Then there is the BDP-LX91.....

It is considered to be the companion player with Susano... but according to these photos.... NO ILINK....

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2008/06/2...hiff-bdp-lx91/

I don't expect SC-LX81 or 71 (05 or 03) to play better with BDP-LX91 than Susano because of the PQLS over HDMI....

But someone who buys a 7000$ amp and its companion 3000$player surely wants the best from the two... and from what we know ilink is the best input SC-LX90 has and HDMI is the best output BDP-LX91 will have.... and that doesn't make each one the best combination with the other....

Maybe SC-LX90 will be upgradedable to PQLS over HDMI, maybe the final BDP-LX91 will have ilink....(together with SACD/DVD-AUDIO)...
but for now it is better and safer to wait....

In the video compartment i am glad for the HDMI passthrough of Susano...
I don't think that the picture of BDP-LX91 or the Denon flagship blueray will need any kind of fixation...


Check the page of areadvd....
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post #288 of 5383 Old 07-12-2008, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssak View Post

In the video compartment i am glad for the HDMI passthrough of Susano...
I don't think that the picture of BDP-LX91 or the Denon flagship blueray will need any kind of fixation...


Check the page of areadvd....

It definitely looks the part of the flagship disc player to flagship receiver. (Maybe i.link under a sticker).

I'm less optimistic for an upgrade for PQLS vs an unannounced feature. (Both involve hope though).

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #289 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 07:41 AM
 
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ssak,

Looks like we both have dug up two differing weblinks links of diverse information.

http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/bdplx90/bdplx90.htm

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2008/06/2...hiff-bdp-lx91/
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post #290 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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More on the fan issue:

I've read several posters in the Denon 5308 thread say they hear a slight whirring sound in their units & wondered if it was normal. So it seems all 3 flagship receivers are using fans which come on at some point with temp. Someone posted that his fan became less noticeable after a Denon firmware update, so maybe Denon adjusted the temp activate point.

The Denon POA amp has fans. Its been described as getting very hot under load.

Some of the Denon AVP owners are adding aftermarket low-noise fan coolers to the tops of their $7K prepros due to the heat buildup and heat-related issues. Most are attributing heat buildup to the video processing boards.

I don't know if the Anthem D2 had a fan or not or got hot or not.

But combining hi power for 7-10 channels, trying to keep box size from getting too large so no external heat sinks, include hi-powered video processing chips, & cram it full of other boards that do active processing like 3 processor chips, HDMI transmitters, etc. sort of leaves some sort of fan cooling as a fool-proof solution. Either that or premature failures.

100% passive cooling would be fantastic but then the boxes become even bigger with heat sinks & harder to fit in most people's racks & cabinets. Its becoming a challenge as it is

Steve
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post #291 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 08:36 AM
 
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Hehe...Maybe we can get one sized like a refrigerator or walk-in freezer next?
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post #292 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssak View Post

The biggest issue for me is the PQLS over HDMI....
I will not be happy if in 2009 Pionner ships SC-LX91 or SC-LX100 with PQLS over hdmi...

Pioneer had at least a 2 yr product cycle for the previous 2 flagships. The LX90/09 took 4 yrs. So, I wouldn't expect them to come out with a replacement LX91 for at least 2 more yrs. I hope not anyway!!!

On the PQLS issue-

The LX90/09 does have some type of jitterless or jitter-reduction circuitry in processing HDMI audio according to info on Pioneer's Japanese site & press releases. They just aren't describing it as PQLS. They have only started using the term PQLS over HDMI for the SC-07/05 and that it only applies to playing CD's, not BD hi-rez audio. Unfortunately, this might be a hint about their future plans for SACD/DVDA in the fact they only use CD in their description for the PQLS feature

It would be great if Pioneer offered us a future PQLS upgrade, because that would mean we could gain the benefit with the BDP-05/51 players. But I'd prefer they either give us BOTH the upgrade AND SACD/DVDA in a BD player or ILink/SACD/DVDA in a BD player. Only then does the LX90 & player become a "matched" pair.

ss9001

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post #293 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon Eddie View Post

Hehe...Maybe we can get one sized like a refrigerator or walk-in freezer next?


Do like the hardcore PC gamers & use water cooling! NOT!!!

Steve
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post #294 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I don't know if the Anthem D2 had a fan or not or got hot or not.

The Anthem got very hot... no fans..

The Denon AVP/POA does have an unique solution.. at minimal audio levels, the fans shut off.
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post #295 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 09:11 AM
 
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If the "avland" link can be trusted, BDP-LX90 should have 2 iLINK connections according to the text. It just doesn't visually show it on the connections chart.
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post #296 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 11:02 AM
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Thanks to rudolpht and ss9001 on the great info for DVD-A and SACD. I thought that I would have to get another DVD player to manage the SACD and DVD-A through digital connects. I am new to pioneer products with the SC 09 and don't know much about their other equipment, so thanks for the heads up on the 51 and 71 components. I might want to wait until this new Pio BD player comes out in a couple months to see what it offers before buying an older component. The system already sounds killer despite stud framing and open walls and only L R fronts and one sub hooked up. Hopefully I will have it finished in a few more weeks. Is there another forum that talks about soundproofing techniques? My construction worker is going to start the finishing work in a few days, and I have the opportunity to maximize the soundproofing in my room. I realize this is off-topic, but if anyone wants to comment, I would be grateful. Thanks.

docjj
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post #297 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 11:58 AM
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One thing about PQLS over HDMI, in the 07 manual, it requires you to enable HDMI Control. That makes sense; it's just another command sent over the HDMI wire.

PQLS may not be necessary if your player has a good clock and the receiver has a big buffer. As I recall, dr1394 put the first Pioneer player and receiver with PQLS on his 1394 test bench so he could see all the messages being sent back and forth. He played a full CD and never saw a 'speed up' or 'slow down' message, indicating the reciever's buffer never got too full or too empty and PQLS wasn't really needed with that combo.

Dennis H
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post #298 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 12:04 PM
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Hey guys !

I have a complete setup of the Monitor Audio Platinum speakers (PL300 and 5.1). The nominel impedans is 4Ohm. Will the Lx90 handle it ? I know the front is rated 4 - 16ohm and others 6 - 16 ohms.

Will my incoming Lx 90 handle it ?

please advice.
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post #299 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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SweElite

All I can say is I've had no problems driving Magnepan planar speakers which are 4 ohm and less efficient and more power demanding than yours FWIW.

I'd say go for it. You shouldn't have problems.
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post #300 of 5383 Old 07-13-2008, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docjj View Post

..Is there another forum that talks about soundproofing techniques? My construction worker is going to start the finishing work in a few days, and I have the opportunity to maximize the soundproofing in my room. I realize this is off-topic, but if anyone wants to comment, I would be grateful. Thanks.

Yes - a lot of people post questions & comments in these subforums:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=3/
In the room construction one, there's a master thread going back to 2003 on acoustic treatments thats worth checking out.

Also, heres another forum on room acoustics:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/rives/bbs.html

It's great that you're starting with a fresh room & get the chance to do it right from the start. When our house was built 16 yrs ago, I set my room up for audio/video with some in-wall cabling and a pretty good idea of where I wanted to put gear, speakers & seating, but certainly not nearly to the degree that people are putting into home theaters today. No soundproofing and only 5 yrs ago I added room treatments.

If I could do it over again my I would be doing some of the things you are.
My wish list for room improvements would have -

true structured wiring closet
double walls & ceiling for some sound deadening
larger dimensions so I could have both my 2 ft wide speakers & a 100+" projection screen
change the utility room layout so I could have inwall racks for all equipment

O well - my room is pretty nice anyway, just has some limitations

Can u post some photos of how your room is progressing? Especially the Final Product
ss9001

Steve
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