Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 5386 Old 05-10-2008, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

My time between the rack & the wall starts this AM right after breakfast. I fully expect I'll need some ice too. But it'll be worth it

...

Tim, I'd be very interested in what clearance you are planning to use.

Stay tuned....

We want rack under construction pictures

I actually have about 2 feet of clearance to the shelf above which has my DVD 59Txi & HD1, projector on shelf above that, mostly power conditioning equipment below and components about a foot away on right side on two shelves. It's the benefit of an equipment room sitting behind the theater room.

I did most of the wiring after a few hours of sleep. Plugged in only to hear the cachunk and standby light (good sign), now off to one of my MD Weekend duties. Speed Racer early show. Rough Duty

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STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #32 of 5386 Old 05-10-2008, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

It's the benefit of an equipment room sitting behind the theater room.

Taking a break..

I'm envious
I've wanted that option, but it would be major work to re-do an existing utility room with furnace-HVAC, etc. When we had house built 16 yrs ago, I had planned for some in-wall wiring, etc. But if I had to do it again, there would be a true structured wiring closet setup, in-wall racks, make the room bigger.....while changes could be done, it's more $$ than I am willing to spend on this house. So, salamanders sitting in the media room had to do. Maybe someday (wistfully dreaming of a custom HT room)

Back to work.

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post #33 of 5386 Old 05-10-2008, 08:50 PM
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Having a lot of NO JOY here.
Working:
I'm getting iLink to find and work from a 59DVi.
I get Auto MCACC to work.

Non-Working:
I get non-supported on all HDMIs in to HDMI out. (Either HDMI 1 or 2 selected) regardless of power up sequence. EDIT: Getting audio but no video when HDMI selected.
I am NOT getting an HDCP error, because my projector is HDCP.
The Video Adjust menu will not come up to override to 1080p output (required by my HD2K projector).
Audio breakup on Dolby optical bitstream on HD Tivo, (Component video).

Tim
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post #34 of 5386 Old 05-11-2008, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not as far along. Listened to some 2 ch music last night in Pure Direct mode, just to see how it compared with a an ext. amp I use for the fronts. Class D does seem to be just a hair "cleaner", but much more comparisons have to be made. I'll post more when I get a chance to do a proper listening session.

HDMI issues - ugh!! That is my biggest concern.
Looking up your projector - it uses DVI which is what I have to contend with also. So not good to hear you're having problem. I *may* get to try HDMI Sunday, still futzing around with cable management & routing IR with the changes I made.

Steve
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post #35 of 5386 Old 05-11-2008, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I'm not as far along. Listened to some 2 ch music last night in Pure Direct mode, just to see how it compared with a an ext. amp I use for the fronts. Class D does seem to be just a hair "cleaner", but much more comparisons have to be made. I'll post more when I get a chance to do a proper listening session.

HDMI issues - ugh!! That is my biggest concern.
Looking up your projector - it uses DVI which is what I have to contend with also. So not good to hear you're having problem. I *may* get to try HDMI Sunday, still futzing around with cable management & routing IR with the changes I made.

I see we are both working the night shifts on getting this set up.

I know there must (can't just be wishful thinking) a way to force 1080p out. A world class video solution is ... not world class ... if low end Onkyos and Yammies flagships can do it

I need the secret handshake. Good news is that HDCP is passing correctly. Bad news that even 1080p HDMI in to 1080p HDMI video out isn't.

Tim
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post #36 of 5386 Old 05-11-2008, 04:14 AM
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I have one unit on order here in Sweden (called SC-LX90 here) and it was good to hear that the 59DVi (called DV-868AVi-S here) works via I.Link. I plan to use this one to play SACD and DVD-Audio with the audio via i.Link and the video via component (to avoid the CPPM protection in DVD-Audio with HDMI 1.0 as well as to save one HDMI input).

(And using a Denon DVD and Panasonic BD for movies.)

How does the DACs in the 09 measure up? I'm contemplating a good dedicated CD-player running analog in but I'm equally tempted to just rely on the 59DVi and the internal DACs of the '09 - decisions..decisions..

I really hope that you are able to solve the HDMI problems - good luck!!
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post #37 of 5386 Old 05-11-2008, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragnet View Post


How does the DACs in the 09 measure up? I'm contemplating a good dedicated CD-player running analog in but I'm equally tempted to just rely on the 59DVi and the internal DACs of the '09 - decisions..decisions..

I really hope that you are able to solve the HDMI problems - good luck!!

Thanks and sound wise, after only partial calibration, I think you'll be mightily impressed. It was good to get iLink back and the 59 continues to impress me after all these years. I admit I'm a videophile more than an audiophile so your mileage may vary.

Tim
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post #38 of 5386 Old 05-11-2008, 05:06 AM
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Quote:


How does the DACs in the 09 measure up? I'm contemplating a good dedicated CD-player running analog in but I'm equally tempted to just rely on the 59DVi and the internal DACs of the '09 - decisions..decisions..

Ilink to the SC-09 should be excellent. PQLS will keep jitter very low and the Wolfson DACs are my favourite (Quite a few people prefer them to Burr Brown).
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post #39 of 5386 Old 05-11-2008, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Success on HDMI!!

I wasn't going to tackle it this weekend, but couldn't resist temptation. OK - my present display is a Pioneer Elite HD RPTV at 1080i, certainly not the same as 1080p but I plan on replacing within a yr, to either a projector or larger plasma.

Here's the chain - 3 ft HDMI cables from Toshiba XA2 HDDVD and Panasonic BD10BD players to Pioneer. 7 ft HDMI-DVI cable to a DVI switcher, 12 meter run from the switcher to the RPTV. I am amazed it worked with the switcher in the loop, but I wanted to try it out & see what I was up against before buying DVI adapters or signal booster. All cables are heavy guage for long runs.

Also, no sparkles as far as I can tell. but I'm very pleased & surprised this worked with no changes.


Tim, I hope you get yours debugged & resolution you want.

One if there was no video thru the AVR, would be to send all player HDMI to one of the new 1.3 matrix switchers on the market, send video to the projector & audio to the SC-09.

Now back to work, still putting it all back together.

Steve
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post #40 of 5386 Old 05-11-2008, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Success on HDMI!!

I wasn't going to tackle it this weekend, but couldn't resist temptation. OK - my present display is a Pioneer Elite HD RPTV at 1080i, certainly not the same as 1080p but I plan on replacing within a yr, to either a projector or larger plasma.

Here's the chain - 3 ft HDMI cables from Toshiba XA2 HDDVD and Panasonic BD10BD players to Pioneer. 7 ft HDMI-DVI cable to a DVI switcher, 12 meter run from the switcher to the RPTV. I am amazed it worked with the switcher in the loop, but I wanted to try it out & see what I was up against before buying DVI adapters or signal booster. All cables are heavy guage for long runs.


Tim, I hope you get yours debugged & resolution you want.

One if there was no video thru the AVR, would be to send all player HDMI to one of the new 1.3 matrix switchers on the market, send video to the projector & audio to the SC-09.

Now back to work, still putting it all back together.

With a little help I could update the HD Tivo & DVD 59DVi to 1080p Upconversion on, but no luck on any signal out via HDMI to the projector, including straight pass 1080p (BDP-HD1 & Tosh XA2).

There must be a trick.

Your 1080i RPTV may be a little more tolerant to the output, ie it can multi sync.

Note I can bypass (completely) the AVR and it does work fine.

If the new Kuro projector was available I would pick it up to make sure. I may pick up an RS2 or VPL-200 if I can get one quick.

Bottom line, no killer video. Barely livable component Vid out (but not HDMI sources) to a 23" Dell monitor

GLAD to hear your arrangement is working.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
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post #41 of 5386 Old 05-11-2008, 08:20 PM
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Yeh, I was in Yamada Denki (one of the biggest electronic retailers in Japan) several weeks ago. I asked about the SC-09 and they said it was too expensive to carry in the stores. I'm sure I can find it somewhere but I want AVS Forum members feedback.

Must be tough on you on how to split your affection this weekend: Mom and/or Wife versus SC-09.

Take care of that shoulder.

Weird because Yodobashi Osaka have a dedicated Pioneer Lounge with the "beast" in the core of itbut I had no chance for a listen (japanese missus was not happy me to do so....what women want sometime)

I wouldnt be surprised if you go to Yodobashi Akiabara, they will have it on demo as well

Joshi here in Kobe have the Z11 and Denon AVP on the show but when I asked the sales guy about the Pio, they said they are not "authorized" to show it right nowMy guess is that there are some exclusivity contracts or something with Yam and Denon preventing them from doing so.

I am reading this post quite closely because I have decided to go for a major step up from my Yam 2700 AV receiver so please keep the infos coming.

I will

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post #42 of 5386 Old 05-12-2008, 04:23 AM
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Why is it weird? Yamada Denki is not Yodobashi. I just happened to be in the Yamada Denki in Oimachi (Tokyo). When I get some time, I will go to the Yodobashi in Shinjuku or Akihabara.

Even if I listen to it in the store, I value the AVSForum feedback from end users who have purchased the SC-09 and installed in their home.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolive View Post

Weird because Yodobashi Osaka have a dedicated Pioneer Lounge with the "beast" in the core of itbut I had no chance for a listen (japanese missus was not happy me to do so....what women want sometime)

I wouldnt be surprised if you go to Yodobashi Akiabara, they will have it on demo as well

Joshi here in Kobe have the Z11 and Denon AVP on the show but when I asked the sales guy about the Pio, they said they are not "authorized" to show it right nowMy guess is that there are some exclusivity contracts or something with Yam and Denon preventing them from doing so.

I am reading this post quite closely because I have decided to go for a major step up from my Yam 2700 AV receiver so please keep the infos coming.

I will


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post #43 of 5386 Old 05-12-2008, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I had a NO JOY episode last night.

I couldn't get any color from my laserdisc player on SVideo, black & white only. Imagine that of all things..HDMI no problems...SVideo!!!

I tried 2 other inputs: color comes thru just fine. I ended up trying swapping cables, no luck. Checked input assignments, yep, DVD/LD assigned to SVid Input.

I went to bed thinking the worse, that my brand new susano would need warranty repair. But I'm happy to say that it was only a configuation issue, probably specific to my laserdisc player which can play both LD's & DVD's and has a component vid output for DVD. When the player's component vid is turned on, the Svid goes B&W and vice versa.

Tonight, I methodically went thru ea step - checked the player to make sure it was set to SVid output, turned the component video input AND the video converter off in the receiver and there was color at the SVid input. Turned the component video inputs back on and there was still color. Turned the video converter on and NO color.

In the video troubleshooting section in the manual, one possible solution Pioneer gives for no video is to try turning off the video converter. In this case, I think the video converter made AVR think the LD player was passing component video and reverted the Svideo to B&W.

Lesson learned again - don't try troubleshooting when tired, sweaty & frustrated.

Susano still rules

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post #44 of 5386 Old 05-12-2008, 05:16 PM
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Hi All, I am a long time reader of this forum but a first time poster. I have appreicated all of the information shared here. Thank you.

I received my Pioneer SC-09 TX last Thursday and had an HDMI issue - so I wanted to let you folks know. I am not nearly as knowledgeable about eletronics as most posters here - I just kind of muddle my way through.

Here is my set up:
Susano Receiver
Mitsubishi 73833 DLP TV
Denon 3800 BDCI Blu Ray
Denon 5900 DVDA SACD
Direct TV HD20-700
Speakers - Def. Techs 7000 SC's fronts, CLR 300 center, and 4 BPVX surrounds, one Supercube Reference sub.

The problem that I encountered is that the Mitsubishi TV is having trouble recognizing and retaining the HDMI input from the Susano reciever. I called Mitsubishi and they are sending me a software update to the TV - and I hope that fixes it (I bought the TV last fall). But I do not know if it is caused by the receiver or the TV. I will keep you posted.

As a general note, I have only spent enough time on the setup to listen to an Eagles DVDA and it sounded great to my appreciative but comparitively unsophisticated ears.
Best regards,
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post #45 of 5386 Old 05-12-2008, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I had a NO JOY episode last night.


Lesson learned again - don't try troubleshooting when tired, sweaty & frustrated.

Susano still rules

I learn that lesson weekly

Tim
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post #46 of 5386 Old 05-12-2008, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by hett View Post

The problem that I encountered is that the Mitsubishi TV is having trouble recognizing and retaining the HDMI input from the Susano reciever. I called Mitsubishi and they are sending me a software update to the TV - and I hope that fixes it (I bought the TV last fall). But I do not know if it is caused by the receiver or the TV. I will keep you posted.
Best regards,
hett

I hope this helps your issue. I'm going to try a new projector, a convenient excuse, but I hope that does fix my issues.

Tim
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post #47 of 5386 Old 05-12-2008, 09:02 PM
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Tim,

I've been playing around with my SC 09 "feeling your pain" and I suggest the following:

- unplug all the hdmi inputs and the output from the receiver
- plug an s-video cable from one of your sources (eg sat receiver, bluray player ... either/or) into the DVD/LD s-video in (assignable)
- set the s-video function for the source to 'on'
- set hdmi control on the receiver to 'on'
- perhaps turn off receiver, unplug, plug-in and turn on the receiver
- access video parameter and down-arrow down to 'resolution' and select 1080p
- after this is done, it sounds like you will have to de-activate hdmi control to get the video along with the audo ... I don't know whether this will undo the resolution setting but it's worth a shot ... before you get another projector and potentially run into the same issue

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post #48 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Ptheman View Post

Tim,

I've been playing around with my SC 09 "feeling your pain" and I suggest the following:

- unplug all the hdmi inputs and the output from the receiver
- plug an s-video cable from one of your sources (eg sat receiver, bluray player ... either/or) into the DVD/LD s-video in (assignable)
- set the s-video function for the source to 'on'
- set hdmi control on the receiver to 'on'
- perhaps turn off receiver, unplug, plug-in and turn on the receiver
- access video parameter and down-arrow down to 'resolution' and select 1080p
- after this is done, it sounds like you will have to de-activate hdmi control to get the video along with the audo ... I don't know whether this will undo the resolution setting but it's worth a shot ... before you get another projector and potentially run into the same issue

Ptheman

Ptheman,

I have something akin to this, I'll try anything and appreciate it, though.

I have been able to adjust non-HDMI sources and the settings are indeed still not passing 1080p out. Unfortunately 1080p passthrough is not passing 1080p out, so something is up.

On my Yamaha Z11 and Onkyo 885, while both didn't have the per input flexibility, it did have a constant output option for HDMI which the Pio lacks. Cheaper than a new projector, testing a HDMI HDCP source, even a cheaper one, or a multisynching DVI HDCP source should verify if there is an issue, unfortunately I don't have one (only fixed res DVI HDCP and multi non-HDCP sources). On the other units I could get 1080p passthrough, so something else is wrong.

I hate to say it, because I already like Loudness Plus, but if a new PJ comes in and doesn't work them the Pio goes back, but I'm guessing based on Steve's expenience that the HDMI does/is working with more recent sources.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #49 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 04:33 AM
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Hi Tim,

Sorry to hear about your HDMI problems.

I wonder if you can take some time to tell us more on the new THX loudness feature found on the SC09?
For some years now, due to family constraints I had to listen in low-mid volumes. I complaint that due to this I lost a lot of the dynamics that are found in some sound tracks. Reading about the new THX Loudness feature led me to believe that this is exactly what I need.

Thanx

Ran
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post #50 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 05:11 AM
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Ran,

With a few caveats and a limited sampling, the major caveats being limited break in and only single point calibration, and the lack of combined/video/audio experience, I can only say I have played a few DVDs, eg the new The Alamo, at low volumes and the sounstage is very full w/o turning down volume for each canonball. I typically have limited time to enjoy my home theater and this helps.

Tim
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post #51 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Tim,
I really hope a new projector makes it happen for you..I really have to believe it will, especially if you use a straight HDMI connection. I know the Denon AVP & 5308 are also top-notch machines, but I'd hate to see u turn to the Dark Side.

I'm waiting on several HDMI cables to arrive, so trying other things out. I'm very impressed with how sophisticated the SC-09 is compared to the previous flagships. I'm still getting used to the setup menu being device-centric rather than function-centric.

Also, since I was working with SVideo last night, I checked out several of my sources. I was completely surprised how much better they looked than the 59TXI's Svideo. With the 59TXI, I was used to seeing minor signal noise, jaggies, whatever you may call it from a Sony DVR/DVDR & a VCR. With the SC-09's Svideo, there was almost no visible jaggies or noise, much cleaner looking.

Also, the 59TXI's video converter was not all that great and sometimes looked worse than the native Svideo or composite sources. Looking at component converted from Svideo with the SC-09, I could scarcely tell them apart on both laserdisc and the DVR. To my eyes, they were practically identical, so I think it's now a realistic option to use just a single HDMI or HDMI & component connections. Hopefully, I'll be comparing HDMI converted video this weekend.

It's pretty obvious Qdeo video processing blows away what was in the 59TXI. It's come a long way in 4-5 yrs.

I would really like to see Secrets do an A/B comparison of Qdeo vs. HQV & Realta.

ss9001
Steve

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post #52 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Ptheman,

I have something akin to this, I'll try anything and appreciate it, though.

I have been able to adjust non-HDMI sources and the settings are indeed still not passing 1080p out. Unfortunately 1080p passthrough is not passing 1080p out, so something is up.

On my Yamaha Z11 and Onkyo 885, while both didn't have the per input flexibility, it did have a constant output option for HDMI which the Pio lacks. Cheaper than a new projector, testing a HDMI HDCP source, even a cheaper one, or a multisynching DVI HDCP source should verify if there is an issue, unfortunately I don't have one (only fixed res DVI HDCP and multi non-HDCP sources). On the other units I could get 1080p passthrough, so something else is wrong.

I hate to say it, because I already like Loudness Plus, but if a new PJ comes in and doesn't work them the Pio goes back, but I'm guessing based on Steve's expenience that the HDMI does/is working with more recent sources.

Tim,

Please keep us informed as to your progress toward projectable video to your projector. I intend to continue tinkering with my setup to try and isolate on the required setup for the 'handshake' issue.

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post #53 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I just had my wife look at a taped movie she was familiar with which I recorded off of Turner Classic Movies. Even she noticed the big improvement with the SC-09. It's really impressive how well it handles older recorded std def material.

Steve
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post #54 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Tim, on your HDMI problem, had you tried turning HDMI Control off? Manual reads like it needs to be Off with displays that do not have it. By all means, keep us informed on your progress.

Steve
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post #55 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ptheman View Post

Tim,

Please keep us informed as to your progress toward projectable video to your projector. I intend to continue tinkering with my setup to try and isolate on the required setup for the 'handshake' issue.

Ptheman

Will do. Very much appreciate the help.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #56 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Tim, on your HDMI problem, had you tried turning HDMI Control off? Manual reads like it needs to be Off with displays that do not have it. By all means, keep us informed on your progress.

Definitely. I have to say I've tried about every combination & permutation possible, including the Ptheman diagnostic steps. If I didn't know it took a secret setting in both the Z11 & 885 to get it to work, I would be less suspicious.

I'm also wondering if the 1080p is 60 vs 59.98 or something like that, enough to trip up a fixed res input only projector. Now the bad news, I'm picking up a VPL-VW200. I would have liked to waited out for the new Pio PJ, but to some extent a forced upgrade to a new PJ should probably not put more $s in the pockets of the forcer

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #57 of 5386 Old 05-13-2008, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Tim,


I would really like to see Secrets do an A/B comparison of Qdeo vs. HQV & Realta.

ss9001
Steve

Steve,

If Qdeo wasn't so highly touted by Secrets as a ground breaking technology, I would not have been so psyched to get the 09, but a comparo of the high end chips and their implementations would be great.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
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post #58 of 5386 Old 05-14-2008, 11:07 AM
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How does it handle SACD via iLink? Converted to PCM before DA? (Not a deal breaker, just curious )
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post #59 of 5386 Old 05-14-2008, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Dragnet,
It'll take direct DSD. Last night, I connected up a Pio 59AVI player with ILink and played a SACD. What gets passed depends on which mode the receiver is in.

In Pure Direct mode, it's straight DSD.
In Direct mode, which retains MCACC settings & bass mgmt, SACD comes thru as DSD converted to PCM.
In Auto Surround mode, obviously it has to be converted to PCM first, so again it's DSD to PCM.

I can also state that the SC-09 will take DSD directly over Ilink from a Sony XA9000ES SACD player which only sends DSD over Ilink & not PCM. In the past, I had tried the Sony with the 59TXi. While the 59 would recognize the player, it wouldn't play any sound from it.

Hope this helps.

Steve
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post #60 of 5386 Old 05-14-2008, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Dragnet,
It'll take direct DSD. Last night, I connected up a Pio 59AVI player with ILink and played a SACD. What gets passed depends on which mode the receiver is in.

In Pure Direct mode, it's straight DSD.
In Direct mode, which retains MCACC settings & bass mgmt, SACD comes thru as DSD converted to PCM.
In Auto Surround mode, obviously it has to be converted to PCM first, so again it's DSD to PCM.

I can also state that the SC-09 will take DSD directly over Ilink from a Sony XA9000ES SACD player which only sends DSD over Ilink & not PCM. In the past, I had tried the Sony with the 59TXi. While the 59 would recognize the player, it wouldn't play any sound from it.

Hope this helps.

Have you tried the Winamp ILink driver with it? (Does not work with Previous Pioneer Amps but works with Onkyo and Sony amps)
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