Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 5382 Old 11-17-2008, 03:00 PM
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What SRC does Susano use ?

http://www.blufans.com/hardlab-505.html

shows AK CS8420

but in http://www.pioneerhongkong.com.hk/mi...ogy/index.html

it clearly shows SRC4192I from TI...
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post #722 of 5382 Old 11-18-2008, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkddell View Post

I too would love to try PQLS, but I'm doubtful that a firmware change could enable it.

I hope I'm wrong...

KDD

And from the site ssak linked to...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneerhonkong.com View Post

The jitter reduction system for an HDMI connection and the PQLS function for an i.LINK connection provides highly accurate signal transmission from DVD or SACD/CD players. The 192 kHz Sampling Rate Converter, together with the low-jitter clock system, further improves signal accuracy during D/A conversion for precise reproduction of the most delicate nuances.

now can it work over HDMI???
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post #723 of 5382 Old 11-18-2008, 07:33 AM
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I am writing about the PQLS thing over and over again but is there realy a problem for the owners of Susano ?

Let's say that you are an audio purist and you want the best audio playback from your CDs...
(Do not forget that PQLS works only for CD playback )

-If you are a lucky owner of a player with i-link (like me) there is no problem at all. I-link has PQLS...

-if you are a luckier owner of BDP-09 then the best way to connect and hear a CD (and only a CD) it is by RCA connection with Susano and not with HDMI. Susano has better dacs (8741) but the BDP uses Wolfson WM8740 x 8 (one stereo DAC for each channel in dual differential mode)
So the best CD sound come from the analod RCA BPD-09 outputs when connected to the multichannel ins of Susano... (you don't get MCACC that way however)

The "problem" starts when you have something like BDP71.. but then again Susano has jiiter reduction circuit...

Finally the Sampling Rate Converter of Susano which contributes for the jitter reduction, is way better than the one used in SC-LX81 or SC-07 ... ( and costs almost twice the price... 7.5$ versus 4.5$).

After all the above, if they can enable it, it would be OK, but other updates of firmware (FLAC support, HDMI outs working together, MCACC updates, Media player, etc) seems more critical to me...

I hope a machine of the class of Susano (and its owners) gets the support of its manufacturer...
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post #724 of 5382 Old 11-18-2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssak View Post

I am writing about the PQLS thing over and over again but is there realy a problem for the owners of Susano ?

Let's say that you are an audio purist and you want the best audio playback from your CDs...
(Do not forget that PQLS works only for CD playback )

Will it work for DVD and SACD too? I thought that the bandwidth was too great for iLink.

I'ts academic for me anyway as my SACD player only outputs analog 5.1
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post #725 of 5382 Old 11-18-2008, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicatt View Post

Will it work for DVD and SACD too? I thought that the bandwidth was too great for iLink.

I'ts academic for me anyway as my SACD player only outputs analog 5.1

Prior to HDMI, Ilink & Denon's proprietary DenonLink were the only digital connections that 1) had copy protection and most importantly 2) did have the bandwidth for multichannel DVD-Audio & SACD. ILink also had the advantage of jitter-free signal transfer using PQLS or Sony's HAT techniques. Now, jitterless HDMI is becoming a reality, but regretably Pioneer is using it only with CD's. ILink is still a superior connection due to that limitation. In fact, ILink has the bandwidth for the new hi-rez multichannel audio formats on Bluray & HD-DVD.

ss9001

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post #726 of 5382 Old 11-18-2008, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
I am writing about the PQLS thing over and over again but is there realy a problem for the owners of Susano ?

I don't think so. As long as the receiver is buffering and reclocking the audio signal to the receiver's audio clock, jitter just goes away -- just like the big-buck DACs used to work back in the day. Having a big audio buffer is dirt cheap these days -- you could buy enough RAM to buffer a whole CD (store the whole CD in RAM) for about 20 bucks so I'd be surprised if Pioneer got it wrong on their flagship.

After all, when dr1394 (firewire engineer) tested PQLS on the 59 combo, the buffer was big enough that he never saw a single 'speed up' or 'slow down' command when playing a whole CD. The big buffer was doing the job all by itself and the rate control commands weren't needed (although admittedly nice to have if they ever were needed). His running the 59 through its paces on his firewire test bench is in the archives somewhere.

Dennis H
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post #727 of 5382 Old 11-19-2008, 01:20 PM
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Another first ... its from Poland...


http://nowetrendy.pl/index.php/news/id/4481


and check the picture...
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post #728 of 5382 Old 11-19-2008, 02:23 PM
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This is the reply I've got from Pioneer Europe :


Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for the confidence in our products.Thank you for your interest in
our pioneer products. The possibility for firmware updates is in place, but
it's unlikely that product specifications will be altered with a firmware
update.

- FLAC support.
-> No direct FLAC support is supported, this will probably not be
changed.

- PQLS over HDMI
-> SC-LX90 can only handle PQLS over i-link. Be aware that pioneer
amplifiers that support PQLS over HDMI (SC-LX71 and SC-LX81), only use PQLS
for CD playback (not for DSD, DVD-A, Dolby, DTS), To benefit from this you
also need a CD player that support PQLS over HDMI (currently only BDP-LX71,
BDP-LX08, BDP-LX91and BDP-51FD).

- HDMI Scaling
-> SC-LX90 can upscale video inputs to High definition resolutions.
HDMI to HDMI scaling is not possible since this would affect the purity of
the HDMI signal.

- HDMI out working together
-> I'm affraid that this won't be changed in the future.Best regards

Pioneer Europe Customer & Service Support
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/showContact.do

DISCLAIMER

This response is provided in good faith but Pioneer cannot warrant the
accuracy or completeness of information given,its suitability for any
particular purpose and it may contain technical or typographical errors.
All liability of Pioneer howsoever arising is expressly excluded to the
fullest extent permitted by law.



I wonder what the new firmware will change...
Well, at least for FLAC support, it's a pity....
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post #729 of 5382 Old 11-19-2008, 03:29 PM
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I hope some on can help me with my 09.
If I use HDMI or Component Cables coming from my Comcast cable box to the Pioneer Elite SC-09 the response is so slow like 15 to 20 seconds just to change the channel from one to the next.
If I bypass the SC-09 and go just into the tv I can change the channels in like 1 second.
any Help would be great!
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post #730 of 5382 Old 11-21-2008, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Murray View Post

I hope some on can help me with my 09.
If I use HDMI or Component Cables coming from my Comcast cable box to the Pioneer Elite SC-09 the response is so slow like 15 to 20 seconds just to change the channel from one to the next.
If I bypass the SC-09 and go just into the tv I can change the channels in like 1 second.
any Help would be great!

I run component vid from my Comcast Moto box directly to the display to avoid any possibility of HDMI handshake problems & other quirkiness. That's what I'd recommend. Cable boxes have been problematic for HDMI compatibility issues with various receivers, including Pioneer. The max you are going to get is 1080i anyway so no need to go thru the SC-09 or even use HDMI for that matter to watch HD cable.

That being said, do you have the SC-09 video converter set to OFF or are you using the SC-09 to change resolution or adjusting any other settings on the SC-09's component input used for the cable box?

ss9001

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post #731 of 5382 Old 11-21-2008, 04:24 PM
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HI new to all this looking to upgrade. Thinking of the sc-07 or sc-09? What is the difference in the two. Is the hdmi up scaling that big of an issue? Like I said I'm new to this, woulndn't the upscaling from the dvd or other compoint do the job? Thank you for your response's. Anything would help be for I buy the wrong thing. I now own a B&K AV 507
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post #732 of 5382 Old 11-22-2008, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd recommend looking at Pioneer's web site & download the manuals for all the details, but here are a few major differences:

1. LCD front panel display in the 09
2. More power and up to 10 channels that can be configured differently in the 09:
200 watts/channel X 7 (or 140 watts/channel X 10) in the 09 vs. 140 watts/channel X 7 in the 07.
3. Better video processor in the 09, the Marvell Qdeo vs Faroudja in the 07.
4. Better DAC's in the 09. The 07 uses 6 Wolfson WM8741 DAC's, while the 07 uses the Wolfson WM8740 DAC.
5. SC-09 has 6 HDMI inputs vs. 4 in the SC-07
6. More connectivity in the 09 for example, 6 component video inputs vs. 3 in the 07.

If you need ILink connectivity for legacy universal players that play SACD/DVD-Audio such as Pioneer's 59/79AVi, or Esoteric & some other "hi-end" players, you'll need to go with the 09 which has jitter-free ILink using PQLS.

If you want AC3 RF connection for a legacy laserdisc player that plays Dolby Digital 5.1 laserdiscs, you'll need the 09.

OTOH, the 07 has several things that the 09 won't:
1. Ability to play internet radio in its Home Media Gallery. The 09 substitutes the ability to play networked video files.
2.PQLS over HDMI for jitter-free CD playback. Only CD's though, and have to mate with a Pioneer BDP-51/BDP-05 player to get this.

Both have the same MCACC auto-calibration software, both are Ultra2 Plus certified, and both decode all the new audio codecs, Dolby TrueHD & DTS-Master Audio.

If you want another true flagship to replace & out-perform your 507 (which is supposed to be very musical ), and have the $$ you can't go wrong with the SC-09 OTOH, the 07 will get you pretty close for a lot less $$.

I have no regrets buying the 09 for the money spent, even knowing the 07 was a lot less. If I were shopping now for a flagship or near-flagship AVR or prepro here's how I'd personally rate them:

1. Denon AVP pre-pro + a 7 channel power amp
2. Pioneer SC-09
3. Denon 5308
4. Pioneer SC-07
5. Yamaha RXZ11

Happy shopping!

If you decide on the 09 or 07 let us know how it goes.

ss9001

Steve
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post #733 of 5382 Old 11-22-2008, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soprano_777 View Post

Is the hdmi up scaling that big of an issue? Like I said I'm new to this, woulndn't the upscaling from the dvd or other compoint do the job?

No it's not been for most of us. The Denon 5308 & prepro's use the Realta chip and do allow for HDMI scaling/adjusting. But Pioneer has taken the philosophy that since most uses of HDMI are HD, they want to maintain the video quality un-altered, unalderated from source to display. They prefer to let the player or the display do the scaling or use an external scaler if needed.

I can say the Qdeo video processor in the 09 does a great job scaling analog video from component, s-video. We've all been impressed with scaling VCR, DVR, laserdisc sources.

ss9001

Steve
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post #734 of 5382 Old 11-22-2008, 03:36 PM
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Is your rating based on your own experience with the five mentioned units?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


I have no regrets buying the 09 for the money spent, even knowing the 07 was a lot less. If I were shopping now for a flagship or near-flagship AVR or prepro here's how I'd personally rate them:

1. Denon AVP pre-pro + a 7 channel power amp
2. Pioneer SC-09
3. Denon 5308
4. Pioneer SC-07
5. Yamaha RXZ11

Happy shopping!

If you decide on the 09 or 07 let us know how it goes.

ss9001


I'm just a caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.
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post #735 of 5382 Old 11-22-2008, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssak View Post

This is the reply I've got from Pioneer Europe :

[size="1"]
Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for the confidence in our products.Thank you for your interest in
our pioneer products. The possibility for firmware updates is in place, but
it's unlikely that product specifications will be altered with a firmware
update.

- FLAC support.
-> No direct FLAC support is supported, this will probably not be
changed.

I do hope they get us FLAC. That'd be nice! The 07/05 US models have FLAC support, I believe, so hopefully the 09/LX90 has enough left over memory/DSP support that cold handle it with a firmware update.

If you pursue this & find out anything more, please let us know.

ss9001

Steve
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post #736 of 5382 Old 11-22-2008, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post

Is your rating based on your own experience with the five mentioned units?

Not in-home/in-store evaluation of those models, no

It's how I view them from their features, capabilities, reviews of actual performance. And I was considering all of them in shopping & deciding on the 09 (the 07 was not out yet at the time).

If money were no object, I'd buy the Denon separates. But the hi powered Ice amps and overall capabilities of the SC-09/LX90 comes darn close for about half the money even at street prices.

I had 2 previous generations of Pioneer flagships, which I did compare to the B&K 507, the Denon 5805 & Anthem D1 at the time. Both the Pioneer 49TXi & 59TXi came the closest to giving me what I was seeking in audio performance & build quality within my budget.

Filmmixer has posted here & the SC-07 threads has owned one of the top Denon's, the 5308 I believe, an Integra or Yamaha, and both the SC-09 and SC-07 (he may have connections or a lot of play money ). He compared them all in both threads and said that for audio quality, the SC-07 & 09 were tops. For menu usability, OSD GUI, he ranked the Denon's as superior.

rudolpht has also owned former Pioneer flagships, an Anthem D2, Yamaha, Onkyo/Integra and says the SC-09 has been his best for overall quality & stability.

ss9001

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post #737 of 5382 Old 11-22-2008, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

No it's not been for most of us. The Denon 5308 & prepro's use the Realta chip and do allow for HDMI scaling/adjusting. But Pioneer has taken the philosophy that since most uses of HDMI are HD, they want to maintain the video quality un-altered, unalderated from source to display. They prefer to let the player or the display do the scaling or use an external scaler if needed.

I can say the Qdeo video processor in the 09 does a great job scaling analog video from component, s-video. We've all been impressed with scaling VCR, DVR, laserdisc sources.

ss9001

Thanks for all the info. I'll be getting one of them buy christmas. You have me leaning more for the 09. Thanks again. will keep in touch. Always read the posts
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post #738 of 5382 Old 11-22-2008, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Filmmixer has posted here & the SC-07 threads has owned one of the top Denon's, the 5308 I believe, an Integra or Yamaha, and both the SC-09 and SC-07 (he may have connections or a lot of play money ). He compared them all in both threads and said that for audio quality, the SC-07 & 09 were tops. For menu usability, OSD GUI, he ranked the Denon's as superior.

For clarity.... it's been the Anthem D2 and A5 amp, Denon 5308 and 4308, Onkyo 905, and the SC09 and now SC07...
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post #739 of 5382 Old 11-22-2008, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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^^
Thank you!
I couldn't remember exactly which models you had owned But I knew you liked the Pioneer's the best for audio.
ss9001

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post #740 of 5382 Old 11-25-2008, 07:04 AM
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Flac support is great, not only because FLAC is loseless...

There also is no jitter when you play back audio files directly from a hard drive ..... no need for Ilink, PQLS, good transport etc..
just a good drive to rip our cds...
It is absolutely the best way to store loseless cds in hard disk .
Maybe we should ask Pioneer America too.. !!


Start sending mails ....
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post #741 of 5382 Old 11-26-2008, 04:53 AM
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I have received a message asking me how the amp can be upgraded..
After some searching it came up that pioneer has reported two ways of upgrading the firmware :

via Lan http://www.pioneer.com.au/susano/spec/index.html

or (and ? ) via USB... http://www.abt.com/images/products/P...09TX_specs.pdf


- a review of SC-LX90 against Denon, Yamaha and Marantz http://www.mamut.net/dynabel/marantz...hjemmekino.pdf
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post #742 of 5382 Old 11-26-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssak View Post

- a review of SC-LX90 against Denon, Yamaha and Marantz http://www.mamut.net/dynabel/marantz...hjemmekino.pdf

Can you give us a quick, translated version of what they said?
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post #743 of 5382 Old 11-26-2008, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Can you give us a quick, translated version of what they said?

A very quick first one since Norwegian (the article) is possible but difficult to read for a Swede (i.e. me):

The Yamaha wins due to lower price and better video options. The article notes that Pioneer (which is 2nd) would have won if the emphasis of the test had been more towards music.

BTW. They have some (minor?) gripes with the sound quality of the Denon. The Marantz is "Best for the Monery").
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post #744 of 5382 Old 11-26-2008, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssak View Post

I have received a message asking me how the amp can be upgraded..
After some searching it came up that pioneer has reported two ways of upgrading the firmware :

via Lan http://www.pioneer.com.au/susano/spec/index.html

or (and ? ) via USB... http://www.abt.com/images/products/P...09TX_specs.pdf

[/url]

I think you will need an USB plugged in even when (yes *when* one can wonder ) upgrading via LAN in order to store the downloaded file and to run the upgrade from. I can compare with my Sony S-350 Blu-ray that did seem to need the USB memory in order to upgrade itself via LAN.
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post #745 of 5382 Old 11-26-2008, 11:38 AM
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The translation...

Music

One might think that such a full full amplifier had limitations, such store, in
relation to how well it could play. Much of the resources are located in the facto in garnish surrounding the purpose of the gorgeous box, namely to reproduce sound. It is overraskelsen great when we get
heated it up and started to play on it.
Perhaps that statement begins to bore anyone, but this is the best we've heard from a surround amplifier. That it is very powerful, also in relation to its slightly cheaper competitors, comes as no surprise.
Measurements we have gained insight into other outside players show that it provides the the laws in 8 Ohm, and the multiplier effect almost exactly when impedansen halved. Playing style is fresh and has a nerve, we can not remember having heard from class-D amplifiers earlier.
It is very, very neutral, and just watch frempå in relation to the dynamics. This perceived that is very balanced, and since it is not struggling to pull the
TAD store R1, it is almost as one can conclude that you do not need to spoil
to use such a "cheap" (relatively speaking) amplifier for these speakers. Transients appears very realistic, and utklingninger for example, from the piano and other instruments with many overtones safeguarded in a forbilledlig
way. The special center inside all this is that the other amplifiers in this
test almost park in relation when it comes to evaluating Susano as a pure music product.
Who would have thought it ...

Film

On the same line as with music, Susano has much to offer when we put on a movie.
Surround processing is an example to the successor.
We do not like big chin drop here we had when we listened to music, but it was expectations also very high after hearing how it played music. We had
in a manner expected us great Unlike SCLX70 example, but here, there were fewer differences in the processing of complex sounds in multi-channel.
What makes this far better than the other models Pioneer is not simple parameters, but the impression and performance of the total package. Synergy Susano exercise is decisive for the outcome, in equal terms with the experience you get when you hear a very good match between individual products in the second setup.
The sum of Pioneer DAC, processor, and the effect forforsterker tunet together in Susano is Thus, what makes this something of the best
on the market when it is integrated boxes.
I can not come on any other device in compliance with the aforementioned components
- Of course in relation to price - which can be combined for a like good result. The effects of the different channels that will whip lash if
film material allows it, and the dynamics tempo and get us to shrink in the chair when we do not know what's coming. If the purpose
to see a movie is to have an experience Monday never would have in reality, is a Susano product that enables this to you.
The relationship and interaction between channels are fabulous, and when it conveyed information between example surround front and get in some scenes feeling that these speakers were actually one large and long continuous electrostatic speaker, who neither had a beginning or end.


Summary

It is only to take off his hat for Pioneer.
They have managed to create a very good film conveys, and the better the music conveys. Those who burn a couple of month's salary on Susano SC-LX90 will at least not to sit back with doubt about the fact is worth the money. This makes the amplifier absolutely everything you could ever dream up,
and probably a little more.


We like • Neutral
• Dynamic
• Huge spoken word
• Powerful
• Nice

We do not like
• Nothing
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post #746 of 5382 Old 11-26-2008, 11:53 AM
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It is not uncommon for prices not fully proportional with
performance when one moves upwards in the price segments. The products in this test is no exception. Pioneer has naturally received most attention to
To begin with, but since the test went forward was unusually much link
back and forth to verify and conclude. That it has been interesting is the
no doubt, for in this period, the well never occurred more unpaid overtime in
Home cinema history.

Yamaha DSP-Z11
We singled out the Z11 to the best amplifier in the class when it was tested. And still no one can threaten its position as film conveys. It is with little margin best in this are, closely followed by Pioneer SC-LX90. Has been given the taste of what Presence do with the film is the far ahead of the others, but if this is a factor that is not playing any role has it is not the big upper hand. As a pure forforsterker is the fall of Pioneer, and also to a certain degree of denon. It has the most well-functioning romkorreksjonen,
but when it comes to look the part sisteplassen with denan. Quality feeling
is the dog on top, and the same applies performance.
Here is the only behind of Pioneer.

Denan AVC-A1HD
Denan comes on a jumbo space when it in performance. Not that it is Roadside, but because it seems somewhat slow and low sprudlende
in relation to the other. As forforsterker it is fantastic, and end up only
marginally behind Pioneer. Denan is also a sole clear winner when it comes to ease of use and opportunities. It is also the only one that has a built-WLAN.

Marantz AV8003 and MM8003

Marantz's test cheapest product, but also the only one who is pure
processor with external power stage. Appearance
it is so stylish that can can, which it largely shares with Pioneer.
Marantz claims both with new look and content, and even if the graphical user interface both are horrible and ugly tildels deficient, the performance is very good.
It can be on an equal basis with Pioneer stream both film and music. Never has Puns "A lot of money" had a bigger impact than just the Marantz their case.

Pioneer SC-LX90 "Susano"

Newcomer from Pioneer takes on all rotta the other in terms of both forces, and the ability to communicate the music. The world some of the Yamaha when it comes to film processing, but when not fully. That had been a cool thing if one could received the image from the components connected via
HDMI on the small screen, but it does it is not. Therefore, it is actually fun
gimmik, rather than a useful feature. It is very beautiful, and it has a very good room correction . The test is most expensive product, but we think it is worth the money.
As pure amplifier is completely perfect , but the synergy you get by take advantage of the built-in ten channels should not the Kims. The graphic the user is ok, but not more than that.


Most of the money

Marantz is clearly a winner in the category
"Most For The Money". Had denan had a little more frempå would play the
have won, simply because there is a better product in all other areas. But the sound is ultimately the most important.

The best surround amplifier T

To find a winner here is much more difficult than anyone can imagine. But with the criteria we have set up takes a very Yamaha ruse win. This is primarily a test of surround amplifiers, and here it is still no one can disciplined Yamaha, which also is a great deal cheaper. Pioneer, which on many parameters is a better amplifier, would win if the music had been investigated on an equal footing with the film. Then it's up to the individual to take their decisions in relation to this.

Sum
You can easily have a winner among these four top models without further? The answer is short and well no, it is very difficult, but we will try as best as possible.
More fun gets W e!
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post #747 of 5382 Old 11-26-2008, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ssak View Post

Ps 2 . There is no comparison with Yamaha Z11 or Denon AVC-A1HDA. Pioneer is really in another world !!!

- I am glad that this review agrees with me ...
- I am impressed with TADs they have used...
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post #748 of 5382 Old 11-26-2008, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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ssak, thanks for the translation.

Also, Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Hopefully, we all get to enjoy those ICE amps for several uninterrupted days.

ss9001

Steve
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post #749 of 5382 Old 11-26-2008, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioBear View Post

I asked Pioneer about the video deiniterlacing and upscaling capabilities of the SC-09TX. I have 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i inputs over HDMI in addition to 1080p so you can see why conversion and scaling is important.

The good news is that Pioneer customer service got back to me very efficiently and they answered my question accurately and precisely. The bad news is that I don't like the answer:

"The answer is that it can only convert analog signals, not HDMI, much the same as the VSX94TX from last year."

So why not buy the VSX94TX, take the 3-4 thousand dollars you saved and buy a seperate audio video amplifier??
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post #750 of 5382 Old 11-27-2008, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Pfdjr1 View Post

So why not buy the VSX94TX, take the 3-4 thousand dollars you saved and buy a separate audio video amplifier??

I think Pioneer is going to find that if they don't make some serious changes via firmware that a substantial amount of SC-09TX would be owners are going to be purchasing non-Pioneer separates instead. Clearly Pioneer doesn't see the issue, so everyone that owns one or is considering owning one should let Pioneer know they have a nice product that is severely lacking in a hand full of areas.

It doesn't make me warm and fuzzing when looking at Pioneer players knowing what I do about the Pioneer's attitude towards firmware fixes and the customers wants.

If the A/V world was simple it probably wouldn't be worth the investment.
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