Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 5382 Old 05-14-2008, 08:35 PM
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I have contacted two Pioneer Elite dealers in Minnesota, and one in Iowa and in each case they have no plans to be able to demo an SC-09TX now or in the future. One dealer wasn't even sure he would be willing to order one. I understand with limited availability currently and the price point, that finding a demo is not going to be easy, but the responses I have gotten are more negative than I expected. What are others experencing in this regard? Is the only way to evaluate one of these receivers is to purchase one?

Bob
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post #62 of 5382 Old 05-14-2008, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Dragnet,
It'll take direct DSD. Last night, I connected up a Pio 59AVI player with ILink and played a SACD. What gets passed depends on which mode the receiver is in.

In Pure Direct mode, it's straight DSD.
In Direct mode, which retains MCACC settings & bass mgmt, SACD comes thru as DSD converted to PCM.
In Auto Surround mode, obviously it has to be converted to PCM first, so again it's DSD to PCM.

[...]
Hope this helps.

Ah, excellent - this gets better and better
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post #63 of 5382 Old 05-15-2008, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retate View Post

I have contacted two Pioneer Elite dealers in Minnesota, and one in Iowa and in each case they have no plans to be able to demo an SC-09TX now or in the future.

There is a very restricted availability now. Aside from the fact that it's a large outlay for a shop, there are just too many buyers right now to keep stock on hand. This will ease up as availability increases.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #64 of 5382 Old 05-15-2008, 08:46 AM
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Just an FYI for those in southern california.. Just went to the Pioneer store in South Coast plaza (Costa Mesa) last night. They have the SC-09 on display. That thing is both a monster and a beauty!

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #65 of 5382 Old 05-15-2008, 10:37 AM
 
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I just bought the Denon 5308ci . How does the SC-09TX compare to it audio and Video. I am still within my 30 day window for return and intrested in feedback
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post #66 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 11:38 AM
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I am still shocked to see how little reporting there is from the first lucky recipients of the SC-09TX. I am waiting for mine and am drooling just getting the tidbits from the forum. I just purchased Klipsch THX 650 inwalls, dual 120 subs and 7800 sides and surrounds that are sitting in my unfinished basement theater space. I can't wait to do the build out and hook these babies up to the Pio and let them rip. Probably not until next month from what I hear from my vendor. Anyone have these speakers to give me some feedback on them? (I know that's off topic from the Owners forum...sorry)

docjj
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post #67 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docjj View Post

I am still shocked to see how little reporting there is from the first lucky recipients of the SC-09TX.

I agree with you that the lack of comments from owners has me wondering.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #68 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I agree with you that the lack of comments from owners has me wondering.

Chalk it up to the very few current owners having lives, like me tapping out this response on a Blackberry on business travel).

Aside from my DVI single rate projector issue, which I hope to have corrected by brute force very soon with a new VPL200 projector this weekend, I'm happy with the unit and looking forward to the best video solution available.

Tim
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post #69 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 12:49 PM
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I just picked up the JVC HD100 1080p projector last night (which kicks serious butt) and am dying to try that baby out with the Pio video switching as well. Sucks having to wait...

docjj
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post #70 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I agree with you that the lack of comments from owners has me wondering.

Yes, we have work to do & setup changes to make. Trust me, we'll be back this weekend. I already have some ideas on how it handles HDMI, just trial & error & observation. This may help Tim.

Believe it or not, every evening I'm still working on changing my component & cable arrangements. Just got new HDMI cables yesterday, since I had to change out HDMI-DVI cables strung thru a back wall to just HDMI and figure out where to hide them in the component rack. I don't have an equipment closet like some lucky people I might also add that there's only 2 ft of space between the back of the rack & the wall, so my aged knees & as* are taking a beating.

Have patience folks

Here's just the start of the mess b4 changing the unit/shelves/cables...luv spaghetti, even bundled spaghetti Out with the Pioneer 59TXI...
LL
LL
LL

Steve
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post #71 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docjj View Post

I just picked up the JVC HD100 1080p projector last night (which kicks serious butt) and am dying to try that baby out with the Pio video switching as well. Sucks having to wait...

Darn, I was hoping to have feedback on this combo too before pulling the trigger on the Sony.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #72 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I already have some ideas on how it handles HDMI, just trial & error & observation. This may help Tim.

Thanks for the pics and continued assistance. I'm wondering if I should leave my VPL-VW200 boxed up, but it's calling out to move even before I get home from my trip. I'm up to having only five of my sources setup.

Tim
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post #73 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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^^
I don't have any hard definitive answers yet, but I have noticed that how well HDMI works is VERY dependant on cables and even the inputs used. Here's what happened for me.

Using Blue Jeans new Series 2 cables, the 28 ga variety for flexibility, lengths 4, 5, & 6 ft. Good for category 2 speed (the highest bit rate) up to 15 ft.

Results:
Panny BD10 player w/HDMI 1.2 into Input 1 - Works
Tosh XA2 player w/HDMI 1.3 into Input 2 - Works
JVC DVHS VCR w/HDMI 1.1 (I think) into Input 3 - Works
Pioneer DV-59AVi upconverting to 1080i w/HDMI 1.0 into Input 4 - DIDN'T WORK.

The HDMI link lights just sat there blinking, trying to sync but couldn't. It DID work several days ago on input 1, so I tried that again - no sync. Changed cables to the cheezier cable I used b4 & it worked. Changed to input 4 again with the cheezy cable - no sync. Changed to input 5 & 6 - syncs up fine.

I think it may be very sensitive to timing errors and even cable types, especially with older HDMI & DVI gear. The link light did not flash at regular intervals either, suggesting it was "hunting" trying to make the sync, looked like for whatever reason the older 1.0 spec player just didn't want to sync on that input with the new cable. The joys of HDMI

Maybe this could help explain what you observed trying your older DVI PJ.

Also, Tim, I could not get any the video parameters to show up on any HDMI input; kept flashing "Cannot Select". Very puzzling, since it shows up just fine on SVid & component vid. Then it hit me, maybe those settings are only for upconverted video, where you set the resolution, etc to match the display. It would work on HDMI then since its upconverted. But passing a direct signal from a player over HDMI, you may not be able to change resolution. Does that make sense? I don't have any experience with ext scalers so don't know what to expect. It also could be due to the fact that both you & I used DVI displays.

It'll be interesting to see if the video parameters are available with your new Sony PJ.

I'd go ahead & do the PJ upgrade. It's calling to u.

Keep us informed..

Steve
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post #74 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
I don't have any hard definitive answers yet, but I have noticed that how well HDMI works is VERY dependant on cables and even the inputs used. Here's what happened for me.


The HDMI link lights just sat there blinking, trying to sync but couldn't. It DID work several days ago on input 1, so I tried that again - no sync. Changed cables to the cheezier cable I used b4 & it worked. Changed to input 4 again with the cheezy cable - no sync. Changed to input 5 & 6 - syncs up fine.

I think it may be very sensitive to timing errors and even cable types, especially with older HDMI & DVI gear. The link light did not flash at regular intervals either, suggesting it was "hunting" trying to make the sync, looked like for whatever reason the older 1.0 spec player just didn't want to sync on that input with the new cable. The joys of HDMI

...
Also, Tim, I could not get any the video parameters to show up on any HDMI input; kept flashing "Cannot Select".

The Cannot Select is the bane of my existence. I use top shelf UltraLink Platinum HDMI cables and shortest reasonable length. I hope I don't have to downgrade the cables

It's disturbing that what worked isn't anymore.

I have some of the thrashing, even on non-HDMI or DVI audio inputs. Need to lock in the type, e.g., digital vs polling.

I'll need to try the change input. I actually found the Output 2 worked better (audio syncs at least)

Time to pop the box and play.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #75 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 05:28 PM
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I got mine in today. Still gazing at it. Lots of cables to mess with. My Kenwood dv5900m changers will ship soon, then I will test for sound.
I do not have a modern HDMI equiped TV, waiting for Laservue Mitsubishi TV.
gto
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post #76 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Congratulations, George!! I'm sure you were eagerly waiting for it to arrive.
Please let us know how your hookup and settings progress.

ss9001
Steve

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post #77 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 07:21 PM
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Rudolpht,

From what I have seen with the JVC HD100 (and/or RS-2 ...same units) spending a couple hours evaluating one a couple months ago and last evening at my house, this projector is great. I purchased Schneider anamorphic optics, but I won't have my room ready for a few more weeks. I was originally interested in the Qualia 4, then the HD100, but I have had 2 JVC DILA rear projectors (same basic light engine with these as well as their front projector except for superior black level) and really enjoy their pictures. I think that the HD100 was certainly bright enough on normal mode (didn't try or seem to need bright mode). This had been one criticism of the JVC rather than the xenon technology of the Qualia 4 and VW100 and VW200. This xenon bulb is very expensive compared to the JVC HID mercury bulb. I had good luck with the bulbs on the two jvc rear projectors that use similar bulb. Again sorry for being off the topic. Hope you can get your HDMI situation resolved with the Pio. Can't wait to hear it with my Klipsch THX speakers...that will be another few weeks as well. Patience!!!

docjj
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post #78 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by George Omoregie View Post

I got mine in today.

George. EXCELLENT my friend. Happy to hear it.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #79 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docjj View Post

Rudolpht,

From what I have seen with the JVC HD100 (and/or RS-2 ...same units) spending a couple hours evaluating one a couple months ago and last evening at my house, this projector is great. I purchased Schneider anamorphic optics, but I won't have my room ready for a few more weeks.

That will be a great combo. It's worth the wait.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
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post #80 of 5382 Old 05-16-2008, 08:47 PM
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Some good news:

After a few hours of continued tearing out my hair, I have a WORKING projector solution.

I am not getting component now working to the projector (odd) but I finally figured out how to get DVD component & HD Tivo component concurrent to a second component monitor while using HDMI exclusively for the PJ. HD DVD, Blu-Ray, HD Tivo & 59DVi working. Need to work LD & D-VHS, Symmetry, and a few other odds and ends.

I can only say one word about the VPL-VW200. WOW!

Incredible contrast, color accuracy, but most amazingly mechanical zoom, shift, focus, and minor keystone correction is just amazing. Just incredible.

Back to being a happy camper (despite adding a 1.5 times the AVR cost item to make it live to potential). LOTS of tweaking to go. Still getting the Cannot Select and a few other things.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #81 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 12:41 AM
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Hi Tim,

I currently own the 94TXH (LX70) and I think that what you are experiencing with "cannot select" is the same problem (or decision by Pioneer) found on my model. Once you use HDMI you have no control on video parameters what so ever.

I was hoping that this will be enabled on the SC09 allowing users to fully take advantage of 1080I signals over HDMI by outputting 1080/24. It seems that like the 94TXH, 1080I signals over HDMI are just passed through.
If I'm correct then the Marvel processor on board the SC09 will be hardly used by most owners. In my case my HD streamer (Tvix 4100) streams 1080I via HDMI, my cable box outputs 1080I via HDMI and the Xbox 360 outputs 1080I via HDMI, all of which can not be controlled (contrast, color etc) or processed to 1080/24.


Once I'll receive the SC09 I'll be able to compare it directly with the 94TXH. It may take some time as there are no units in Europe yet.

Ran
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post #82 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 08:25 AM
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To Answer Some Question I Received My Unit Yesterday Here In N.y. And I Had No Problem With Hdmi Hookup,everything Is Working Fine. Also U R Right U Cannot Use The Video Parameters With The Hdmi Hookup Only Audio Primeters If U Switch To Component Cables Or Analog Hookup U Can Use The Video Parameters.
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post #83 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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^^
What it looks like is Video Parameters are for upconverted vid to any output incl HDMI but not for HDMI directly from source to receiver. It was available for me with an analog input & upconverted HDMI output. I think I'll put in a call to Pioneer tech support next week to see if we can get some answers. Not the 1st line help desk support, but hopefully I can get someone in engineering.

An update - MUCH better now that hard part is done...

Gotta sweep out the carpet marks, then the REAL FUN will begin

My system is a mix of analog & digital as u can tell from 2 turntables. Also theres a real antique, a *legacy* Sansui quad receiver integrated with the Pioneer using the multichannel analog ins. It was top-of-the-line in its day & since I have an extensive quad collection, I still occasionally use it.

Gotta run, MCACC is calling me..
LL
LL
LL

Steve
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post #84 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 09:33 AM
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Thanks, SS9001 and Rudolpht. I will give myself 4 -5 days to get all the cabling on it with the exception of the TV which I do not have yet.
gto.
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post #85 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 09:42 AM
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Your setup looks very clean. I laughed when I saw cabling at the rear end. Mine is beginning to look like yours, if not worse.
Wife was wondering if I will stop gazing at it and come to bed last night.
I have not powered it on yet. That is when the excitement will begin.
I just hooked up an HP 24 inch HDMI monitor, to use as a stop gap, pending the purchase of the Mitsubishi LaserVue TV.
Did you receive the Telnet Utility for "D...", yet "D" models do not exists on this tread, hence I am using a sort of abbreviation.
I took a look at the code, it has to use IP addresses. If you like it, we have to find someone to program it for us. I am not good in Visual Basic. The last time I worked on Basic was about 20 years ago
gto
gto.
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post #86 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
[...]
My system is a mix of analog & digital as u can tell from 2 turntables.
[...]

Gotta run, MCACC is calling me..

ss9001: Is that a Pioneer LD player in your system? How do you handle the fact that the DV59 uses the same IR codes? Reason I'm asking is that I have an Pioneer LD player that is now out in the barn (!) that I have contemplated putting in the system. Not that I actually need it but why not?! (And I also have the DV-868 = DV59.)

How is the built-in LCD? What kind of detail does it show? Input sample rate / bit rate or is it just output? No HDMI but analogue only, correct?

Ran: Don't know about Israel but the first units in Sweden are due at the end of June. I have one on order but as the new room in the basement is not ready the delay is "OK"

How much heat does the beast produce? And how much power does it consume? I will use a PSaudio Powerplant Premier with a maximum output of 1500 W.

Nice to see that progress is being made with HDMI - good work
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post #87 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 12:39 PM
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I was hoping that unlike the 94TXH , the SC09 owners will get to take the full advantage of the video processor found in the unit especially when Pioneer made such a big deal in stating that it's the new Marvel chip. It's a shame that my 1080I signals from various sources via HDMI will be just passed through to my Sharp 20K DLP projector rather than feeding it 1080P/24 which the Marvel can do very easily.

I wonder if anyone figured already if the Microphone found on the SC09 is an upgrade over the one in the 94TXH?

Thanx
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post #88 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post

..I wonder if anyone figured already if the Microphone found on the SC09 is an upgrade over the one in the 94TXH?

Thanx

It's a different part number than the 1 in the 59TXI, FWIW. No idea if it really is different. Part # is APM2007, so it **probably** is the same as the 90 series.

Steve
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post #89 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragnet View Post

ss9001: Is that a Pioneer LD player in your system? How do you handle the fact that the DV59 uses the same IR codes?..

How is the built-in LCD? What kind of detail does it show? Input sample rate / bit rate or is it just output? No HDMI but analogue only, correct?

Yes it is, a DVL91, the last Elite, even with rosewood panels. And yes it uses the same codes as the 59AV.

The way I got around them interfering with each other is first, stop using the remotes that came with them, then stop using IR blasters.

I ended up getting a URC programmable remote with RF control so I could direct which component gets its signal. Each component has a stick-on IR flasher on its face plate. Using RF converted back to IR, the remote allows you to program which output on the RF transmitter to use for each device. The end result is that only the IR emitter that you want flashed is flashed.

BTW - if u look at URC's remotes, I'd only recommend their MRF300 or MRF350 RF transmitters; the MRF250 is much more susceptible to interference from external EMI/RF & ends up being a frustration to get reliable control. I know this from personal experience Their new remotes use narrow-band RF control which is much less susceptible to interference than the older wide-band one I have.

The LCD display is very detailed, giving type of audio (PCM, DSD, DSD-PCM, Dolby, etc), sampling rate, for all inputs, including HDMI. No data bit rate, tho. Is there a prepro that does?

Hope that helps. I will say this AVR is much more sophisticated than I am used to. MCACC now calibrates each sub output individually, while the 59TXI only did a single combined sub output for 2 subs. That's just 1 difference.

Those coming from the newer 90 series will probably be right at home with the new menu & MCACC. But coming from a 5 yr old version, I'm still figuring it out.

Steve
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post #90 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Omoregie View Post

Your setup looks very clean. I laughed when I saw cabling at the rear end.

Thanks, George, but it still feels like spaghetti to me
I try hard to keep things bundled, etc. It takes a lot of effort, time, & crawling on the floor.

Steve
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