Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Yes it is, a DVL91, the last Elite, even with rosewood panels. And yes it uses the same codes as the 59AV.

The way I got around them interfering with each other is first, stop using the remotes that came with them, then stop using IR blasters.

I ended up getting a URC programmable remote with RF control so I could direct which component gets its signal. Each component has a stick-on IR flasher on its face plate. Using RF converted back to IR, the remote allows you to program which output on the RF transmitter to use for each device. The end result is that only the IR emitter that you want flashed is flashed.

BTW - if u look at URC's remotes, I'd only recommend their MRF300 or MRF350 RF transmitters; the MRF250 is much more susceptible to interference from external EMI/RF & ends up being a frustration to get reliable control. I know this from personal experience Their new remotes use narrow-band RF control which is much less susceptible to interference than the older wide-band one I have.

This is exactly how I do it. I have a CLD-97 & a 59DVi. Rosewood too (scary). The only unsightly part is the duct tape covering the full IR window on the front.

Note the new MRFs use "normal" size IR connectors. I have a 200 & a 300 & the newer models are definitely (I'm told) better for interference.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #92 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post

I wonder if anyone figured already if the Microphone found on the SC09 is an upgrade over the one in the 94TXH?

Thanx

I think there is a way to "override" the HDMI conversion settings. I think passing out /24p on 1080i material would be a mistake, but that's me. Introducing film-like stutter for non 24 original material (even if it started that way) wouldn't be my way, but I agree the unit should support it the most user definable way, but my understanding is it will only pass and not convert from/to 24

On the microphone it seems very similar to the 49TXi & 59TXi microphones, but Steve would likely have one to compare directly (I'll try to track the one down in the family room 49).

Tim
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STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #93 of 5382 Old 05-17-2008, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by drgeee View Post

To Answer Some Question I Received My Unit Yesterday Here In N.y. And I Had No Problem With Hdmi Hookup,everything Is Working Fine. Also U R Right U Cannot Use The Video Parameters With The Hdmi Hookup Only Audio Primeters If U Switch To Component Cables Or Analog Hookup U Can Use The Video Parameters.


That is excellent news. The secret must be using Title Case for all correspondence

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post #94 of 5382 Old 05-18-2008, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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We watched our 1st Bluray with !! hi-rez audio !! last night, The Patriot, PCM output with DPLxx layered on top. Wow!

All I have to say is I didn't know what I was missing with std DD/dts. What struck both of us is how much clearer it sounded, esp. the center channel dialog. My wife is hearing impaired & she noticed it right off. Helps to have spousal approval

I had full phase control ON. When I did MCACC yesterday, I noticed several things:

1) each sub has its own output adjustment, where the 59 only had 1 adjustment for both subs
2) bass did seem fuller, louder with phase control engaged. This is a surprise, since one of my subs is a Velo DD with built-in parametric EQ, very precise control and I had its phase adjustment set for the flattest response for the combined output of the fronts (large) & both subs. So the Pioneer still wanted to correct 3 freq's to match its own "ideal".

This HDMI "cannot select" for vid parameters has me puzzled. I've read some on the DVDO scalers & analog outs have to be turned off in order to adjust HDMI, part of the legal requirements. I tried this on the Pioneer, turning off component & SVid on all inputs, and still no luck. Maybe Pioneer has avoided the issue by either turning it off completely in software or bypassing the vid proc completely with straight-thru HDMI from source to display. It does work on upconverted inputs to HDMI, so that much is good. But it'd be nice to have the adjustments on HD HDMI.

Any new ideas??

So far, AQ & PQ out of this receiver are excellent & I'm very pleased.

Steve
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post #95 of 5382 Old 05-18-2008, 09:00 AM
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I agree with the sound, even on night setting, Golden Compass Blu-ray blew me away. I am only getting PCM so I need to see how to get bit streaming back.

Tim
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post #96 of 5382 Old 05-18-2008, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragnet View Post

..How is the built-in LCD? What kind of detail does it show? Input sample rate / bit rate or is it just output? No HDMI but analogue only, correct?..

Dragnet,
Apologies, I was wrong about the SC-09 not showing bitrate data. Didn't read far enough in the manual.

The SC-09 WILL display bitrate & video settings when status buttons are pressed.

Sorry...still learning about this thing every day

Steve
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post #97 of 5382 Old 05-18-2008, 06:27 PM
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Has anyone had an opportunity to form an opinion as to how well the SC-09 does with 2 channel playback?

While I'm not expecting anything on the level of a dedicated mega-buck preamp, I am hoping there's an AVR out there that is able to provide reasonable SQ along with good imaging and a decent soundstage. I've had thoughts of adding a dedicated pre-amp and amp for critical 2-channel listening, but I may be able to put that off if I can find an AVR for my HT that does a decent job of 2 ch playback.

BTW, SS9001I noticed a piece of Audio Research gear in your rack, but couldn't quite make out what it is. It's been years ago, but I had an SP-3 and then an SP-9 and loved them both.
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post #98 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Shutterman,
I've only had the opportunity to check it out playing songs from 1 CD & 2 stereo SACD's in straight, Pure Direct (no digital processing) mode and several songs from 1 multichannel SACD in Pure Direct & Direct modes. They sounded great! With the class D amps running the fronts, the impression I had was at least as good a soundstage as with a class A/B amp I use, maybe ever so slightly deeper, focused & imaged very well with the songs I listened to.

One thing I have noticed is that in my room, the new MCACC seems to attentuate the hi midrange settings (500 & 1000Khz) where I used to have some sibilance with some female vocals & some brass. Seems a bit "mellower" & smoother sounding. Of course, Pure Direct you hear only what's on the disc.

I have not compared it to the Audio Research preamp yet, and it's a SP16 with tube line & phono stages. I think it'll be *close* & any differences will be subtle. I'm not a golden-ear so I'm anxious to try it out this weekend. stay tuned....

I don't think music fans will be disappointed

Steve
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post #99 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I don't think music fans will be disappointed

Thanks for taking the time to write up your impressions. It sounds like the 09 might do just fine for some ol' fashioned stereo listening. After you've gained some more familiarity with it, I'd be interested to hear more of what you think of the unit.

Afterall, I would suspect that a man with a SP-16 sitting in his equipment rack should know a little bit about what a good 2ch system can sound like!
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post #100 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Maybe Pioneer has avoided the issue by either turning it off completely in software or bypassing the vid proc completely with straight-thru HDMI from source to display. It does work on upconverted inputs to HDMI, so that much is good. But it'd be nice to have the adjustments on HD HDMI.

The SC-09 manual says on page 108 that the video upscaling only works for Analog sources.

That seems like a major issue if SD HDMI sources are passed without the up conversion.

All my sources except for my Wii are HDMI now. I was hoping for upconversion on my SD Directv and DVD's...

I wonder if that is something they plan on implementing in the future or if I will just have to buy Denon.
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post #101 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I've only had the opportunity to check it out playing songs from 1 CD & 2 stereo SACD's in straight, Pure Direct (no digital processing) mode and several songs from 1 multichannel SACD in Pure Direct & Direct modes. They sounded great! I don't think music fans will be disappointed

how are you connected here- ie. analog OUT's, or coax, HDMI?

I will be very curious to hear impressions with 2-channel CD playback using the new (up-coming) BDP-05FD player, connected via-HDMI. The new PQLS technology is supposed to sound exceptionally nice.
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post #102 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

how are you connected here- ie. analog OUT's, or coax, HDMI?

I will be very curious to hear impressions with 2-channel CD playback using the new (up-coming) BDP-05FD player, connected via-HDMI. The new PQLS technology is supposed to sound exceptionally nice.

ILink with both a Pio DV59AVI & a Sony XA9000ES player. ILink also uses PQLS so is basically "jitter-free". I haven't tried CD's yet over HDMI. But I can do it with one of my HD players which are connected with HDMI only & let u know.

Unfortunately, I have some business travel to do 1st.
Maybe someone else, like Tim, has already checked out CD's over HDMI.

Please check the thread this weekend for some updates
ss9001

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post #103 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by phastlane View Post

The SC-09 manual says on page 108 that the video upscaling only works for Analog sources...

I swear I've read every word on the page & cannot find a direct statement to that effect.
But I agree it is implied by reading closely between the lines.

In any event, I called Pioneer US today & spoke with a nice guy in tech support. Even tho he was 1st line & not engr, he did say they've received several calls on this already and he had the answer.... which is that the video parameters cannot be accessed for direct HDMI inputs, that the scaler is only for analog to analog & analog to HDMI conversions. For HDMI sources, what goes in is what comes out, leaving it up to the player and display to set proper rez scaling.

What I didn't get a clear answer on is whether the Qdeo NR etc. processing is still being applied to HDMI HD sources even tho settings can't be changed. I may call back & see if I can get an engineering answer to this. He did say they are all impressed with what they've read about it & excited to finally get one in the dept. for them to look at & work with.

BTW - the service manual is available for purchase, $121. Shows block diagrams, parts, circuit schematics, etc. Mostly for repair shops but I wouldnt mind seeing what is connected to what. Not sure I want to spend $121, tho. If It were $50, I would have bought it on the spot.

That's all for now.

Steve
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post #104 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

ILink with both a Pio DV59AVI & a Sony XA9000ES player. ILink also uses PQLS so is basically "jitter-free". I haven't tried CD's yet over HDMI. But I can do it with one of my HD players which are connected with HDMI only & let u know

cool, thanks!

I was under the impression that to take full advantage of the new PQLS technology you would need the new BDP-05FD connected to the SC-09TX (via-HDMI)? Or is it that the player needs a digital interface (HDMI or iLink)?
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post #105 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by phastlane View Post


I wonder if that is something they plan on implementing in the future or if I will just have to buy Denon.

I would not buy on promises on upgrades, regardless, although Pio has a much better customer service/attitude than many companies, e.g., my 3 generations old Blu-ray is still receiving updates.

I would question why HDMI for all regardless. Most all sat boxes, Tivos, DVRs will have identical sound on optical outs and identical or better picture output on component. I understand the logic of 1 cable vs 2 (or 4 if count each connector), but there is (particularly with cable boxes) many HDMI issues (flashing menus, drop outs, etc.). On these sources it just doesn't make sense to use HDMI (or at least you can compare quality).

Tim
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post #106 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I swear I've read every word on the page & cannot find a direct statement to that effect.

I am looking at the on-line owners manual, so the page numbers may be different.

It is located here:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ctions1213.pdf

In the table it says: "RESOLUTIONa This setting is valid for HDMI and component outputs. Specifies the output resolution of the video signal (when analog video input signals are output at the HDMI OUT connector and/or component video out terminal, select this according to the resolution of your monitor and the images you wish to watch). When AUTO is selected, the resolution is automatically selected depending on the capability of the display connected to this receiver."

Also on page 157 it says: "Also, the built-in digital video converter of this receiver makes both de-interlacing and up-scaling possible, and analog video signals being input are converted and output as digital video signals at the HDMI terminal."

This is not completely clear to me either, and I do not have a unit to test. But, given the comments made on this thread earlier, It sure seems like the video upconversion only applies to Analog sources...

Everything else about the SC-09 is perfect for my application, so I hope that someone who has one can verify that HDMI sources do get upconverted...
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post #107 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

I would not buy on promises on upgrades, regardless

Yeah, I learned my lesson on my "future proof" Acurus pre/pro. I have had it for ten years and I am still waiting for my first update.

So, no, if the SC-09 does not upconvert HDMI input video signals, I would not purchase one until Pioneer fixes it...

Besides, we are still not clear on the HDMI functionallity and no such future upgrade promises have been made by anyone.
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post #108 of 5382 Old 05-19-2008, 09:15 PM
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Seems like it would be an easy fix or upgrade with a firmware fix. Pioneer needs to get on the ball.
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post #109 of 5382 Old 05-20-2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I swear I've read every word on the page & cannot find a direct statement to that effect.
But I agree it is implied by reading closely between the lines.

In any event, I called Pioneer US today & spoke with a nice guy in tech support. Even tho he was 1st line & not engr, he did say they've received several calls on this already and he had the answer.... which is that the video parameters cannot be accessed for direct HDMI inputs, that the scaler is only for analog to analog & analog to HDMI conversions. For HDMI sources, what goes in is what comes out, leaving it up to the player and display to set proper rez scaling.

What I didn't get a clear answer on is whether the Qdeo NR etc. processing is still being applied to HDMI HD sources even tho settings can't be changed. I may call back & see if I can get an engineering answer to this. He did say they are all impressed with what they've read about it & excited to finally get one in the dept. for them to look at & work with.

This is insane. Having the award-winning Marvell Qdeo VP built-in and not being able to use it? Pioneer's wearing quite the pair of Bad Idea Jeans.

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post #110 of 5382 Old 05-22-2008, 12:12 PM
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Is the Denon that much better in this regard? While browsing the Denon manual I found some statements that would indicate "not much".
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post #111 of 5382 Old 05-22-2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post

Thanks for taking the time to write up your impressions. It sounds like the 09 might do just fine for some ol' fashioned stereo listening. After you've gained some more familiarity with it, I'd be interested to hear more of what you think of the unit.

After all, I would suspect that a man with a SP-16 sitting in his equipment rack should know a little bit about what a good 2ch system can sound like!

Has anyone tested this Elite with turntable?
I have a Pioneer PL-L1000A... tangential turntable, cleaned my Bob James Three album. I could not get the sound to come out loud. I placed my ears very close to the album playing, I was able to hear some sound.
I had also gone to adjust the Phono setting, no luck. Any idea on what to do?
Ipod playing functions very well.
George T. Omoregie.
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post #112 of 5382 Old 05-22-2008, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Omoregie View Post

Has anyone tested this Elite with turntable?
I have a Pioneer PL-L1000A... tangential turntable, cleaned my Bob James Three album. I could not get the sound to come out loud. I placed my ears very close to the album playing, I was able to hear some sound.
I had also gone to adjust the Phono setting, no luck. Any idea on what to do?
Ipod playing functions very well.
George T. Omoregie.

What's your cartridge type, moving coil cartridge or moving magnet, George?

Steve
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post #113 of 5382 Old 05-22-2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

What's your cartridge type, moving coil cartridge or moving magnet, George?

Hi:

It is a Stanton 680 EL 11. I checked the package, which doe not indicate the type. I love this cartridge, I purchased two just to have one as extra. I have played more than 20 Vinyl albums with it, when I have the Yamaha RX V3000. Wife, kids, and I love the warmth it produces.

I would think it will work with the SC-09TX. I have been playing with this phone for almost a whole day.
I could if I place my ears to the plater, hear some sound, which is very faint.
Besides this problem with the TT not playing or giving me sound, I am very happy with the unit.
I can not give much report yet, because I do not really have a modern HDTV to mate it with.
I might have to report this to Pioneer if this is a problem.
Thanks for the input.

George T. Omoregie.
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post #114 of 5382 Old 05-22-2008, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Omoregie View Post

Has anyone tested this Elite with turntable?
I have a Pioneer PL-L1000A... tangential turntable, cleaned my Bob James Three album. I could not get the sound to come out loud. I placed my ears very close to the album playing, I was able to hear some sound.
I had also gone to adjust the Phono setting, no luck. Any idea on what to do?
Ipod playing functions very well.
George T. Omoregie.

George,

I hope you figure out the phono. The more I use the unit, the happier I am. I did get a Pio iPod dock, but have been using the SC for all hidef video & audio, so haven't even tried it. Still working on computer into AVR directly. First attempt didn't work.

Tim
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post #115 of 5382 Old 05-23-2008, 12:34 AM
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Did you connect your turntable per the attachment? Note the red circle markup I made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Omoregie View Post
Hi:

It is a Stanton 680 EL 11. I checked the package, which doe not indicate the type. I love this cartridge, I purchased two just to have one as extra. I have played more than 20 Vinyl albums with it, when I have the Yamaha RX V3000. Wife, kids, and I love the warmth it produces.

I would think it will work with the SC-09TX. I have been playing with this phone for almost a whole day.
I could if I place my ears to the plater, hear some sound, which is very faint.
Besides this problem with the TT not playing or giving me sound, I am very happy with the unit.
I can not give much report yet, because I do not really have a modern HDTV to mate it with.
I might have to report this to Pioneer if this is a problem.
Thanks for the input.

George T. Omoregie.

 

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post #116 of 5382 Old 05-23-2008, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Omoregie View Post

Hi:

It is a Stanton 680 EL 11. I checked the package, which doe not indicate the type. I love this cartridge, I purchased two just to have one as extra. I have played more than 20 Vinyl albums with it, when I have the Yamaha RX V3000. Wife, kids, and I love the warmth it produces.

I would think it will work with the SC-09TX. I have been playing with this phone for almost a whole day.


The Stanton is a MM/moving magnet cartridge, so it should work fine with no real lack of volume problems. However, that is also intended as a DJ cartridge, and it is really not the best thing to use for the best sound in a home use setup for playing records.

Now on the other hand. MC/moving coil cartridges, unless it was one of the high output ones, would be the ones that could maybe not work or have almost no or very low volume. Non high output MC cartridges most often times need a special MC head-amp to use them, and only a some of the better pre-amps ever came with them built in, and I don't think there was ever any AVR that did.

So it appears that you may not have something hooked up or set correctly, as a MM cartridge should work with no real problems.
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post #117 of 5382 Old 05-23-2008, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post

Did you connect your turntable per the attachment? Note the red circle markup I made.

George,
That what I'd check too, make absolutely sure you have ity plugged into the phono inputs & not a line level (like CD) input. If it is accidently plugged into a line input, then you would get very low sound output.

Also, JohnLA is correct. Your Stanton is a high output MM cart. so the Pioneer should have no problems boosting its output to the proper level. Most moving coils, OTOH, require a step-up transformer or phono pre-preamp first.

I also checked the Stanton's specs & it is a DJ cartridge. While you may like the sound, you may find it will gradually wear your records faster. If you become interested in another cartridge there are many reasonably priced ones to choose. Shure & Audio Technica are still around, along with Denon, Ortofon to name a few.

Just make sure it has high output, say > 2-2.5 mv to use with the Pioneer. You may want to call a company like Acoustic Sounds, The Needle Doctor, Elusive Disc, Music Direct that sell turntables & cartridges to see what's a good match with your TT.

Good luck!

ss9001
Steve

Steve
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post #118 of 5382 Old 05-23-2008, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

George,
That what I'd check too, make absolutely sure you have ity plugged into the phono inputs & not a line level (like CD) input. If it is accidently plugged into a line input, then you would get very low sound output.

Also, JohnLA is correct. Your Stanton is a high output MM cart. so the Pioneer should have no problems boosting its output to the proper level. Most moving coils, OTOH, require a step-up transformer or phono pre-preamp first.

I also checked the Stanton's specs & it is a DJ cartridge. While you may like the sound, you may find it will gradually wear your records faster. If you become interested in another cartridge there are many reasonably priced ones to choose. Shure & Audio Technica are still around, along with Denon, Ortofon to name a few.

Just make sure it has high output, say > 2-2.5 mv to use with the Pioneer. You may want to call a company like Acoustic Sounds, The Needle Doctor, Elusive Disc, Music Direct that sell turntables & cartridges to see what's a good match with your TT.

Good luck!

ss9001
Steve


Hi all:

I thank everyone for taking the time to share past knowledge of phono and receiver setup. I am at a cross road on this one. I have been using TT since 1975 and I know the setup is simple. I use this TT with Yamaha RXv3000 and we all love it. Since I sold my Yamaha last September, I have had no reason to continue using the TT.
I tested the TT even with a Sony TA E9000eS, works fine.

Here comes Sc-09TX, no real big screen to hook it to, the only peripherals right now areIpod, which works great, and Phono.
Two of my Kenwood Mega changers will be here next week.

I already checked the inputs, you can not go wrong with the insertion of red and white rca cable. Also used the ground cable.
I have already sent a message to Pioneer. I should get some sort of response from the tech support department by next week.

I got to Pioneer FAQ and according to the knowledge database, Pioneer wrote that their receivers only work with magnetic type cartridges. If one wants to use other type, a phono pre amp will be used in between the receiver and phono.
So I wrote to ask if Pioneer does have a specific cartridge/stylus that will work with the PL-L1000A and SC09tX and A-71 amp.
I remember several years ago, there is a special cartridge/stylus sold for about $35.00 that works with this turntable.

Waiting for Pioneer for direction.
I know the TT is not defective, and all parts, buttons work with no flaws.
If any Sc09tx owners do have access to any turntable, please test.
Maybe Pioneer forgot to do something or it is a bug.

Again, thanks all for your inputs.

George T. Omoregie.
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post #119 of 5382 Old 05-23-2008, 08:33 PM
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Another success.

Routed Sony HTPC through the Pio (HDMI - HDMI - HDMI) works PERFECTLY!!!

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #120 of 5382 Old 05-24-2008, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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^^
Great news, Tim. I haven't jumped into the world of HTPC yet. Which Sony PC do u have & how well does it do DVR & other functions?

Enjoying it this AM as I write...listening to a "blast from the past" - Best of Cream on LP to try to help George out.

Steve
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