Audessy MultEQ-XT, is it snake oil? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,

I am currently trying to decide between and Onkyo 805 and 606. And one of the main differences between them is that the 805 has the MultEQ-XT (8 seating positions) and the 606 has the 2EQ (2 seating postions); given that I have 5 distinct seating postions in my HT, I am very interested in the MultEQ-XT. But my big questions is whether the MultEQ-XT is snake oil, when relatively compared to the 2EQ? Does anybody actually have experience with using both, and what is your opinion?

Also, while on the subject, another difference is that the 805 has some fancy THX certification and the 606 does not. Does this really mean anything?

Thanks in advance!

I've got some stuff.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:56 AM
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I haven't used the 2EQ, so I can't speak to it but I'm more than familiar with the XT. There's no snake oil there. It is an excellent room correction tool. The XT not only has more measurement positions but higher resolution too, so you should get better results with the XT over the 2EQ.
Regradless of which you choose, you'll get even better results by fine tuning your room with proper speaker placement and acoustical room treatments; with that in place the Audyssey becomes the "cherry on top".
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:57 AM
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The 805 also has a decent amount more power.
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:20 AM
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As far as the differences between XT and 2EQ, 2 EQ has 3 measuring positions where XT has up to 8. XT has much higher resolution filters and corrects for a subwoofer, where 2EQ does NOT correct for a sub, it only will set it's trim and distance.

I would definitely go for the 805, because it is a great receiver and Audyssey MultEQ XT is a great tool. Quite a bit better than 2EQ.

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Old 05-08-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalksInDarkness View Post
Hi All,

I am currently trying to decide between and Onkyo 805 and 606. And one of the main differences between them is that the 805 has the MultEQ-XT (8 seating positions) and the 606 has the 2EQ (2 seating postions); given that I have 5 distinct seating postions in my HT, I am very interested in the MultEQ-XT. But my big questions is whether the MultEQ-XT is snake oil, when relatively compared to the 2EQ? Does anybody actually have experience with using both, and what is your opinion?

Also, while on the subject, another difference is that the 805 has some fancy THX certification and the 606 does not. Does this really mean anything?

Thanks in advance!

I have attached my before/after results. This was with the Pro system but it gives you an idea of the improvement using EQ. Also, note that we spent over an hour experimenting with placement (using SPL) to minimize nulls before running Audyssey.

 

Audyssey.pdf 105.916015625k . file
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, thanks for all the great replies. I think I will pull the trigger on this. CC has it on sale for $720, so it sounds like it is worth the cost over the 606; considering my bizzare HT configuration, the EQ might be a welcome help. And given CC's liberal return policy, there really isn't any risk. This will be my 4th ONKYO, I now have more AVRs than kids!

One last question: How do I find out which version of firmware is loaded onto the 805?

I've got some stuff.
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kansashick View Post

I have attached my before/after results. This was with the Pro system but it gives you an idea of the improvement using EQ. Also, note that we spent over an hour experimenting with placement (using SPL) to minimize nulls before running Audyssey.

Did you do this or have Shawn do this? How much $$ for the pro calibration?

Also, did you add any room treatments prior to calibration?
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Old 05-08-2008, 01:15 PM
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I would go to Amazon first. They have the 805 for a great price!!!

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
Check out my Datasat combo using Auro-3D:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1426295399824
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I got it and did the initial setup last night. The auto calibration is a snap, but the "calculation" time seems a bit long. Anyhow, the specs it set seemed to be fairly good; other than the fact that it set all of my speakers to "full range", when only the front mains are full towers. Also, it set the Sub to 20 feet away; but it is really more like 8-9, huh??? After adjusting those issues, I do have to say that the feature works really well with regard to creating the 3-D soundfield; I was watching LOST last night, and whenever it rained, or they were in the jungle with crickets, the sensation of being enveloped in the sound was greatly improved (my wife said it was the best the system has sounded). My only complaint is that now, certain parts of the soundtrack sound "thin"; almost as if they were being played on speakers that have only one driver, like an old sears stereo or something. But I have not had the chance to listen to a good DVD yet, so I will reserve my judgement until then.

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Old 05-09-2008, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalksInDarkness View Post

Well, I got it and did the initial setup last night. The auto calibration is a snap, but the "calculation" time seems a bit long. Anyhow, the specs it set seemed to be fairly good; other than the fact that it set all of my speakers to "full range", when only the front mains are full towers. Also, it set the Sub to 20 feet away; but it is really more like 8-9, huh??? After adjusting those issues, I do have to say that the feature works really well with regard to creating the 3-D soundfield; I was watching LOST last night, and whenever it rained, or they were in the jungle with crickets, the sensation of being enveloped in the sound was greatly improved (my wife said it was the best the system has sounded). My only complaint is that now, certain parts of the soundtrack sound "thin"; almost as if they were being played on speakers that have only one driver, like an old sears stereo or something. But I have not had the chance to listen to a good DVD yet, so I will reserve my judgement until then.

Audyssey sets the speakers to large based on what the receiver tells it to. That is, each manufacturer decides at what low frequency extension the speaker should be defaulted to large. In Onkyo's case any speaker that is capable of in room extension lower than 80hz will bet set to large. Manually changing the speaker x-overs will not affect the Audyssey results.

However - changing the sub distance will. Audyssey sets the subs' distance based on time or phase. If it's setting the sub at double the distance then it is adding a great deal delay to the signal.

I'd re-run the Audyssey, make sure that it gets the other speaker distances right or re-run until it does. Set your subs' volume to about half, disable the crossover and set the phase to 0 before you run the Audyssey. If it still sets it to 20' leave it and have a listen.
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, cool, thanks for the tips! I'll try your suggestions tonight.

I posted this question in the Audessy thread, but did not recieve an answer:
With the Mult-EQ is more measurement positions, or less, better? What I mean is this: my 5.1 HT is 10'x 16', with 5 seats along the 16' wall (they take up 14'). So the relative distance to the front mains is about ~8'. Last night I set up my Onky 805 for the first time;I took 3 measurements 1 each from seats #3, 1, 5 (ordered per the diagram in the manual). The results were mixed, as when watching LOST the 3-D field sounded amazing; however, the soundtracks had parts that seemed reall "thin" (like some old cheap Sears stereo or something). Am I better off taking more measurements say at all 5 seats, or taking 3 at the central seat postions of # 3, 2, 4? I sit in the middle at #3, and depending on the wife's mood she sits at either #2 or 4. The three kids rarely seem interested in the HT, so I am not very concerned about seats #1 & 5. I also hear about people using a tripod to take measurements at phantom positions, as if there is another row of seating, what is up with that?

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Old 05-09-2008, 08:00 AM
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Does changing the speaker distances effect Audyssey settings or is it effected only if you change the distance of the sub?

Vinod
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:07 AM
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Does changing the speaker distances effect Audyssey settings or is it effected only if you change the distance of the sub?

Yes, don't change any distances. If it gets any of the distances wrong except for the sub re-run it.
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalksInDarkness View Post

OK, cool, thanks for the tips! I'll try your suggestions tonight.

I posted this question in the Audessy thread, but did not recieve an answer:
With the Mult-EQ is more measurement positions, or less, better? What I mean is this: my 5.1 HT is 10'x 16', with 5 eats along the 16' wall (they take up 14'). So the relative distance to the front mains is about ~8'. Last night I set up my Onky 805 for the first time;I took 3 measurements 1 each from seats #3, 1, 5 (ordered per the diagram in the manual). The results were mixed, as when watching LOST the 3-D field sounded amazing; however, the soundtracks had parts that seemed reall "thin" (like some old cheap Sears stereo or something). Am I better off taking more measurements say at all 5 seats, or taking 3 at the central seat postions of # 3, 2, 4? I sit in the middle at #3, and depending on the wife's mood she sits at either #2 or 4. The rarely seem interested in the HT, so I am not very concerned about seats #1 & 5. I also hear about people using a tripod to take measurements at phantom positions, as if there is another row of seating, what is up with that?

It sounds like you've got boundary gain issues with your seats right up against the back wall. You should engage the boundary gain compensation feature in the 805 after you run the Audyssey (I'm not sure if you can engage it before, but if you can try it both ways)

Use a tripod, make sure you don't place the mic too close to a reflective surface like a leather seatback. I would do six at the three center postions and one each on the ends. Do three at ear height at the listening positions and then another three about two to three feet in front of those measurements.

It should go something like this;

8........2.....1......3..........7

..........5.....4......6..........
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

It sounds like you've got boundary gain issues with your seats right up against the back wall. You should engage the boundary gain compensation feature in the 805 after you run the Audyssey (I'm not sure if you can engage it before, but if you can try it both ways)

Use a tripod, make sure you don't place the mic too close to a reflective surface like a leather seatback. I would do six at the three center postions and one each on the ends. Do three at ear height at the listening positions and then another three about two to three feet in front of those measurements.

It should go something like this;

8........2.....1......3..........7

..........5.....4......6..........

OK, thanks again for the tips. I just chatted with Chris via PM, and he gave me a similar suggestion except with 7 & 8 postioned between the rows to form a ~1' triangle with #1. So I got a lot of good options today! WHich leads me into another question: Can I save different "File Names"? It would be really nice to not have to re-measure each time, and maybe be able to use the WAF as second opinion by switching back-n-forth between files.

I've got some stuff.
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Old 05-09-2008, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by WalksInDarkness View Post

OK, thanks again for the tips. I just chatted with Chris via PM, and he gave me a similar suggestion except with 7 & 8 postioned between the rows to form a ~1' triangle with #1. So I got a lot of good options today! WHich leads me into another question: Can I save different "File Names"? It would be really nice to not have to re-measure each time, and maybe be able to use the WAF as second opinion by switching back-n-forth between files.

Definitely do what Chris says.
Audyssey doesn't store and recall anything unfortunately - the only choice you get is on or off, or "flat" if you engage the THX post processing.
It's a bit of a pain in the butt, but getting it right is worth the effort.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Definitely do what Chris says.
Audyssey doesn't store and recall anything unfortunately - the only choice you get is on or off, or "flat" if you engage the THX post processing.
It's a bit of a pain in the butt, but getting it right is worth the effort.

OK, thanks again. Well, now we know what "nice to have" feature the manufacturers can put into future AVRs; especially with the 805 having the on-screen display, being able to save say maybe 3 files would be sweet.

I've got some stuff.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:13 PM
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IF you're Sub have Delay (witch it can if it have a DSP) the Audysey Correct that delay by adding Distance...

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalksInDarkness View Post

OK, thanks again. Well, now we know what "nice to have" feature the manufacturers can put into future AVRs; especially with the 805 having the on-screen display, being able to save say maybe 3 files would be sweet.

Yeah, but it's not the AVR, in this case it's Audsyssey. They are very protective of their product.
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Old 05-10-2008, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Update-
OK, I ran another setup using Chris' positioning recommendation (along with some of the other good tips I got here). It was definitely improved, with the exception of some sub quirkyness that I need to work out. I posted my summary on the main Audyssy thread.

Thanks everyone!

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Old 05-10-2008, 11:09 AM
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"Yeah, but it's not the AVR, in this case it's Audsyssey. They are very protective of their product."

I don't see how having multiple memories compromises anything more than one.

As Chris says, the big secret is more how Audyssey decides what to do to the signal more than the end result for a particular setup, which could be deconvolved by comparing the corred vs uncorrected waveforms.

Noah
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Old 05-10-2008, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalksInDarkness View Post

OK, cool, thanks for the tips! I'll try your suggestions tonight.

I posted this question in the Audessy thread, but did not recieve an answer:
With the Mult-EQ is more measurement positions, or less, better? What I mean is this: my 5.1 HT is 10'x 16', with 5 seats along the 16' wall (they take up 14'). So the relative distance to the front mains is about ~8'. Last night I set up my Onky 805 for the first time;I took 3 measurements 1 each from seats #3, 1, 5 (ordered per the diagram in the manual). The results were mixed, as when watching LOST the 3-D field sounded amazing; however, the soundtracks had parts that seemed reall "thin" (like some old cheap Sears stereo or something). Am I better off taking more measurements say at all 5 seats, or taking 3 at the central seat postions of # 3, 2, 4? I sit in the middle at #3, and depending on the wife's mood she sits at either #2 or 4. The three kids rarely seem interested in the HT, so I am not very concerned about seats #1 & 5. I also hear about people using a tripod to take measurements at phantom positions, as if there is another row of seating, what is up with that?

There is a faq in the Auddessy thread on how to do this. Some measurements in front and some behind the listener positions help. Varying the height helps but keep away from walls and the backs of couches/chairs.

When doen right all speakers will sound the same in a pink noise test and a DVD with surround effects sound great.

For stereo listening to classical music I am not sure it is a big deal-. I listen to that type of music using direct.

Joel
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:36 AM
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So pretty much nobody was able to prove if it was snake oil or not.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:59 AM
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So pretty much nobody was able to prove if it was snake oil or not.
Look at post #5 , Audyssey smooths out the frequency response which leads to a more accurate and better sounding speaker. There is no snake oil here because there are actual real measurable results from using Audyssey.
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:18 AM
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Look at post #5 , Audyssey smooths out the frequency response which leads to a more accurate and better sounding speaker. There is no snake oil here because there are actual real measurable results from using Audyssey.

XT32 in my 4520 made a noticeable improvement in my theater over my previous 4310's Audessy version. As did using a microphone boom stand for the mic instead of a camera tripod. Not snake oil !!

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Old 07-31-2014, 01:21 PM
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Question boom vs tripod

why would a boom stand make a difference vs using a tripod? (I only own a TP)
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Old 07-31-2014, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mcpfrid View Post
why would a boom stand make a difference vs using a tripod? (I only own a TP)

It works much better - and the mic can be easily positioned right where your ears would be. Hard to do with a camera tripod sometimes. See this post -


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/showth...?highlight=#d1


Well worth what it cost off of Amazon

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Old 07-31-2014, 02:05 PM
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Just to chime in, MultEQ XT is well worth the upgrade over 2EQ; it has way more resolution for the speakers and also takes care of the sub. XT32 is even better and on par with ARC from Anthem IMO.
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