Official Harman Kardon AVR 254 & 354 Owners Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #211 of 4528 Old 07-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Member
 
demenion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What was the price on the 254 @ Frys?
demenion is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #212 of 4528 Old 07-14-2008, 11:06 AM
Advanced Member
 
IrishLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by demenion View Post

What was the price on the 254 @ Frys?

My Fry's here in Austin has the 254 for $599 and the 354 for $799.

Samsung HL-T6187S
Yamaha RX-V863
LG BH200 Super Blu Player
IrishLegend is offline  
post #213 of 4528 Old 07-14-2008, 04:31 PM
mdv
AVS Special Member
 
mdv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by demenion View Post

What was the price on the 254 @ Frys?

$599
mdv is offline  
post #214 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 01:57 AM
Member
 
ptnaidu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

I verified all inputs. I also tried the suggested order of powering on: TV/FP first than the AVR then the source. Still no picture. I will be contacting support today.

I would really be interested to know if there is a solution. I like HK and am seriously considering 354, but my TV can only accept DVI. So I need to be able to run HDMI to DVI cable from the receiver. Please post if you find any solution.

I am currently running an external hdmi switch from Philips with hdmi-to-dvi to my Philips LCoS TV with no problems. I am switching my PS3, dish DVR vip622, samsung HD-961 DVD player through this external switch that I would like to consolidate w/ audio.
ptnaidu is offline  
post #215 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 07:49 AM
Newbie
 
fickerdm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptnaidu View Post

I would really be interested to know if there is a solution. I like HK and am seriously considering 354, but my TV can only accept DVI. So I need to be able to run HDMI to DVI cable from the receiver. Please post if you find any solution.

I am currently running an external hdmi switch from Philips with hdmi-to-dvi to my Philips LCoS TV with no problems. I am switching my PS3, dish DVR vip622, samsung HD-961 DVD player through this external switch that I would like to consolidate w/ audio.

HK support sent an email back indicating that the problem is with my TV (see below). However, I could connect the cable box (HDMI) directly to my TV (DVI) and could get video. So I think the problem is in the AVR. I now have the AVR connected to the TV via component and it works great.

HK response: "Unfortunately, the problem is with the DVI Hitachi TV. Some DVI TVs are not HDCP compliant, meaning that the copy protection software and communication needed for HDMI compatibility is not there. DVI-D is the format that would be compatible with HDMI. Being an older model TV,(yes, even a model from 2004 is considered an older model now as software changes) it may not have the correct software. I would recommend contacting Hitachi to see if there are any software upgrades that will allow HDMI to DVI compatibility."
fickerdm is offline  
post #216 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 09:35 AM
Member
 
altecdell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

HK support sent an email back indicating that the problem is with my TV (see below). However, I could connect the cable box (HDMI) directly to my TV (DVI) and could get video. So I think the problem is in the AVR. I now have the AVR connected to the TV via component and it works great.

HK response: "Unfortunately, the problem is with the DVI Hitachi TV. Some DVI TVs are not HDCP compliant, meaning that the copy protection software and communication needed for HDMI compatibility is not there. DVI-D is the format that would be compatible with HDMI. Being an older model TV,(yes, even a model from 2004 is considered an older model now as software changes) it may not have the correct software. I would recommend contacting Hitachi to see if there are any software upgrades that will allow HDMI to DVI compatibility."

But of course it's not the AVR's fault. It's always the fault of other components. I checked my TV and it is HDCP compatible but still no luck.
altecdell is offline  
post #217 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 09:38 AM
T2k
 
T2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
If you'
re positive it's HDCP-enabled then call H/K and tell them **** off - if it's listed as HDCP then H/K should STFU and issue an apology and offer a solution ASAP.
T2k is offline  
post #218 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 10:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
samsurd2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post

If you'
re positive it's HDCP-enabled then call H/K and tell them **** off - if it's listed as HDCP then H/K should STFU and issue an apology and offer a solution ASAP.

Jeez, who pissed in your mess kit this morning?
samsurd2 is offline  
post #219 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 11:15 AM
Member
 
altecdell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post

If you'
re positive it's HDCP-enabled then call H/K and tell them **** off - if it's listed as HDCP then H/K should STFU and issue an apology and offer a solution ASAP.

You should try calling tech support in Canada. I'm 5 for 5 in getting a busy signal and holding for 15 minutes each time. No response to email inquiries either.
altecdell is offline  
post #220 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 11:22 AM
T2k
 
T2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
If you really want to know it was the mail server.
T2k is offline  
post #221 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 11:23 AM
T2k
 
T2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by altecdell View Post

You should try calling tech support in Canada. I'm 5 for 5 in getting a busy signal and holding for 15 minutes each time. No response to email inquiries either.

Call the US number, it's free anyway and they even pick it up.
T2k is offline  
post #222 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 01:54 PM
Member
 
ptnaidu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

HK support sent an email back indicating that the problem is with my TV (see below). However, I could connect the cable box (HDMI) directly to my TV (DVI) and could get video. So I think the problem is in the AVR. I now have the AVR connected to the TV via component and it works great.

HK response: "Unfortunately, the problem is with the DVI Hitachi TV. Some DVI TVs are not HDCP compliant, meaning that the copy protection software and communication needed for HDMI compatibility is not there. DVI-D is the format that would be compatible with HDMI. Being an older model TV,(yes, even a model from 2004 is considered an older model now as software changes) it may not have the correct software. I would recommend contacting Hitachi to see if there are any software upgrades that will allow HDMI to DVI compatibility."

Wow, that is not encouraging at all, especially after hearing from another member, aletcdell, above that even HDCP compliant TVs aren't working. I am going to try a 354 on my TV one of these days too. I will post my findings when I try. Thanks.
ptnaidu is offline  
post #223 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 03:36 PM
Newbie
 
fickerdm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptnaidu View Post

Wow, that is not encouraging at all, especially after hearing from another member, aletcdell, above that even HDCP compliant TVs aren't working. I am going to try a 354 on my TV one of these days too. I will post my findings when I try. Thanks.

I submitted my question twice (accidentally) to online support. Here is the answer from another support person placing blame on something other than the receiver.
"Good morning and thank you for your inquiry. The issue may be with the HDMI - DVI adapter. If possible try using another one. HDMI - DVI adapters introduce more conversion, which may conflict with HDCP and handshaking with HDMI."
fickerdm is offline  
post #224 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 07:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
IrishLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I guess there are not too many problems with these AVR's since there isn't too many postings lately.

Samsung HL-T6187S
Yamaha RX-V863
LG BH200 Super Blu Player
IrishLegend is offline  
post #225 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 08:12 PM
Member
 
altecdell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

I submitted my question twice (accidentally) to online support. Here is the answer from another support person placing blame on something other than the receiver.
"Good morning and thank you for your inquiry. The issue may be with the HDMI - DVI adapter. If possible try using another one. HDMI - DVI adapters introduce more conversion, which may conflict with HDCP and handshaking with HDMI."

I tried that too but no good. Used a monoprice hdmi cable with a hdmi/dvi adaptor as well as a straight Monster HDMI/DVI cable (which I promptly returned of course).
altecdell is offline  
post #226 of 4528 Old 07-15-2008, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
mather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 515
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishLegend View Post

I guess there are not too many problems with these AVR's since there isn't too many postings lately.

LOL, these are HKs, right? This is the calm before the storm. I think things will kick off once these models are more readily available.
mather is offline  
post #227 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 05:59 AM
Member
 
myerss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chicago 'burbs
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've had mine for a few weeks now, and I have to say that other than a few quirks (refuses to upconvert my xbox360), as long as I'm patient and don't mind waiting 10-15 seconds for HDMI sync the 254 is a joy to have around. Sounds great, looks great in the rack. I have to say that the gray static screen that pops up when HDMI is handshaking makes me nervous everytime after reading other accounts of bricking the think but so-far-so-good.
myerss is offline  
post #228 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 07:48 AM
Newbie
 
fickerdm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by altecdell View Post

I tried that too but no good. Used a monoprice hdmi cable with a hdmi/dvi adaptor as well as a straight Monster HDMI/DVI cable (which I promptly returned of course).

Here is the lastest reply from HK support when I asked why I could get video when hooking the cable box directly to the TV via HDMI to DVI.

"That is a common question and one that is talked about in depth in HDMI training videos on the www.HDMI.org website. HDCP communication does not occur when connecting a source directly to a TV. It only comes into play when a recordable device, such as an AV Receiver is connected in between. This is a very common issue and one that I do not have another solution to. If you wish, I can point you to the section on the HDMI.org website where this is talked about. It also can occur when all HDMI components are used. Software is usually the answer."
fickerdm is offline  
post #229 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 07:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
flabioh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That is a valid response... the only way to prove that it is an H/K issue is to use another AVR and see if it is still happens. If it does then H/K needs to fix it. If it happens with another AVR then it needs to be fixed at the source.
flabioh is offline  
post #230 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 09:17 AM
T2k
 
T2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by myerss View Post

I've had mine for a few weeks now, and I have to say that other than a few quirks (refuses to upconvert my xbox360),

Are you talking about 1080i analog input to 1080p HDMI output? That's forbidden by the standard IIRC, thanks to your Hollywood/RIAA/MPAA mob-financed Congress.

Quote:


as long as I'm patient and don't mind waiting 10-15 seconds for HDMI sync the 254 is a joy to have around.

Wow, that's r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s-l-y long... it's every time when you change input or only when you power up your devices (bad enough already)?

Quote:


Sounds great, looks great in the rack. I have to say that the gray static screen that pops up when HDMI is handshaking makes me nervous everytime after reading other accounts of bricking the think but so-far-so-good.

T2k is offline  
post #231 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 09:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsmith901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 8,970
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

Here is the lastest reply from HK support when I asked why I could get video when hooking the cable box directly to the TV via HDMI to DVI.

"That is a common question and one that is talked about in depth in HDMI training videos on the www.HDMI.org website. HDCP communication does not occur when connecting a source directly to a TV. It only comes into play when a recordable device, such as an AV Receiver is connected in between. This is a very common issue and one that I do not have another solution to. If you wish, I can point you to the section on the HDMI.org website where this is talked about. It also can occur when all HDMI components are used. Software is usually the answer."


How is an AV receiver a "recordable device?"

"The truth is out there!"
dsmith901 is offline  
post #232 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 09:30 AM
Advanced Member
 
flabioh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I would have to assume they loosely meant that because it is able to transcode from one interface type to another it could be used to record.

Regardless HDCP crap is a bane upon all HT users and I anticipate it will only get worse.
flabioh is offline  
post #233 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 10:36 AM
Member
 
bmack500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes, the industry really should seriously consider Displayport. All the advantages, none of the disadvantages (at least on the surface).
It will use optical or copper; I'd like to have video routed throughout my house via cheap optical fiber. Very cool.
bmack500 is offline  
post #234 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 10:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
flabioh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
While I think Display Port is a better interface than HDMI and DVI it can support HDCP (as well as DPCP) which is at the root of the problems these users with DVI are seeing. If there weren't HDCP rolled in with HDMI/DVI I can say with a fair amount of confidence most problems like flickerdm is having would be eliminated. If nothing else, HK wouldn't be able to use it as an excuse and they would be able to focus on what is really causing the problem.

Sure, HDCP is the culmination of content providers trying to protect their content, but they are trying to protect it from people that bought their content.
flabioh is offline  
post #235 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 10:53 AM
T2k
 
T2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
It's not the port, it's the ****in HDCP, this hack that supposed to provide unprecedented full control to the MPAA/RIAA mob over your media, in your house.

Current implementation is waaay beyond any reasonable legal standpoint, it's total control for these corporate entities and zero for you, thanks to our rotten, corrupt legislation and government.

Let's not get deeper into this or I will get very mad very fast.

PS: I see flabioh was faster - and nicer as well - than me...
T2k is offline  
post #236 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 10:56 AM
T2k
 
T2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
BTW I say everybody should buy a HDCP stripper, it should take care of this whole problem.
T2k is offline  
post #237 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 01:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmack500 View Post

Yes, the industry really should seriously consider Displayport. All the advantages, none of the disadvantages (at least on the surface).
It will use optical or copper; I'd like to have video routed throughout my house via cheap optical fiber. Very cool.

Displayport may be a good standard for PCs and excllant for HD video.
But what about audio and HD audio...
In the PC world, Is audio quality really important.
So now we are going to have to run 2 separate cables, 1 for HD video and 1 for HD audio while still including the HDCP validation required by the studio/content providers.

Maybe more thought has be done as Displayport to be consider as an HD video interface may be a step backward rather than going forward..

Just my $0.04...
M Code is offline  
post #238 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 01:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
flabioh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post


PS: I see flabioh was faster - and nicer as well - than me...

Oh, I'm definitely as ticked off about it as you, but I try to be a little more neutral.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Displayport may be a good standard for PCs and excllant for HD video.
But what about audio and HD audio...
In the PC world, Is audio quality really important.
So now we are going to have to run 2 separate cables, 1 for HD video and 1 for HD audio while still including the HDCP validation required by the studio/content providers.

Maybe more thought has be done as Displayport to be consider as an HD video interface may be a step backward rather than going forward..

Just my $0.04...

The latest I heard Displayport has around a 10 Gbit/s data rate at 3 meters. I believe it supports both video and audio signals. That should be plenty of bandwidth for 1080p and HD audio, right? If I'm not mistaken that is close to the HDMI 1.3 spec.
flabioh is offline  
post #239 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 02:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by flabioh View Post

Oh, I'm definitely as ticked off about it as you, but I try to be a little more neutral.




The latest I heard Displayport has around a 10 Gbit/s data rate at 3 meters. I believe it supports both video and audio signals. That should be plenty of bandwidth for 1080p and HD audio, right? If I'm not mistaken that is close to the HDMI 1.3 spec.


The bandwidth of Displayport is quoted @ 10.8GHz, but in reviewing the Displayport.org website I failed to find any mention of audio or HD audio via Displayport..

It certainly seems possible but if the authors of the Displayport standard are only talking video we need to understand how audio or HD audio will be handled. As having video through Displayport but no audio seems like only 50% of the story..

Can you advise where you found the confirmation of audio via Displayport...

Just my $0.04...
M Code is offline  
post #240 of 4528 Old 07-16-2008, 03:27 PM
Senior Member
 
jayhawk11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Just my $0.04...

You're gonna be up to a dollar and some change by the time either of these receivers actually show up in a Best Buy

Wanna make your Mac "teh snappy"? Visit MacRumors.com
jayhawk11 is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Harman Kardon

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off