HDMI in Receivers, why? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Am I the only one that see's HDMI in receivers as a a terrible thing? Why are we being forced to route our audio and video through the receiver to take advantage of the new audio formats? Who in the world would want all their video sources routing to a receiver and output to a single video input on the television? Last time I checked all sources output different colors, brightness, ect. Calibration would be useless at that point.

Is there a chance that TV manufacturers will eventually add an HDMI audio output so we can use more than one video input on our television?
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post #2 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 01:37 PM
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I want it, most people want it in all honesty even if they don't know they want it.

Most displays have user save-able presets. This sort of gets you around the calibration issue.
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post #3 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post

Am I the only one that see's HDMI in receivers as a a terrible thing? Why are we being forced to route our audio and video through the receiver to take advantage of the new audio formats? Who in the world would want all their video sources routing to a receiver and output to a single video input on the television? Last time I checked all sources output different colors, brightness, ect. Calibration would be useless at that point.

Is there a chance that TV manufacturers will eventually add an HDMI audio output so we can use more than one video input on our television?

Most HDMI video is just passed-through and not touched. Its audio where it counts. Where are you best DACs? In you TV??? In you cable box???? ...no in your receiver. Why buy multiple de-coder chips and DACs, when you can just buy one set in your receiver and have it do it all?

I remember when I bought my first DVD player (some had Dolby D de-coder chips and some did not) and the guy at the store asked if I have a nice reciever. When I said yes, he replied then why pay extra to have your DVD player do something that you receiver does better?
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post #4 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 01:42 PM
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Last time I checked all sources output different colors, brightness, ect.

Use the picture memories on your TV in conjunction with whatever remote macros you use to change AVR inputs.
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post #5 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Everdog - The audio never has to be touched in your tv. It's digital. Just pass it on to my receiver as 1s and 0s.

Who wants to change picture memory every time they switch the source? My wife won't do it. I would, but don't feel I should have to. Most tv's only allow one truly customizable setting per input with things like Vivid, Game, Movie that are partially customizable. HDMI sucks. It was designed for noobs who need easy hookups... Give me separate audio and video any day.
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post #6 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post

Am I the only one that see's HDMI in receivers as a a terrible thing? Why are we being forced to route our audio and video through the receiver to take advantage of the new audio formats? Who in the world would want all their video sources routing to a receiver and output to a single video input on the television? Last time I checked all sources output different colors, brightness, ect. Calibration would be useless at that point.

Is there a chance that TV manufacturers will eventually add an HDMI audio output so we can use more than one video input on our television?

Really depends upon what source components are being used..
A typical home entertainment system could include:
a. PS 3
b. HD Satellite box
c. iPod
d. Tivo
e. VCR

Some sources have analog audio outputs others have digital, and the same for video. If the choices are few then connect directly to the display but then again one still needs an amplifier. And if the native sources streams are HD and digital, then HDMI is required for the mandatory copy protection demanded by the studios. Therefore the AVR w/HDMI provides a common component for input processing, output processing, format transcoding, amplification and control.

Just my $0.04..
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post #7 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post

Why are we being forced to route our audio and video through the receiver to take advantage of the new audio formats?

Who's forcing you? No one has to use HDMI... not even for the HD codecs.

CD

Reality Based.
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post #8 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 05:35 PM
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Quote:


Is there a chance that TV manufacturers will eventually add an HDMI audio output so we can use more than one video input on our television?

If you don't want your receiver to have any HDMI inputs, what would be the point of an HDMI output on the TV? What are you gonna connect it to?

Afro GT
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post #9 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 05:55 PM
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HDMI will go away when Display Port is more widespread.
Then we can go through DP1.0, 1.1, 1.2 etc. all over again.
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post #10 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

HDMI will go away when Display Port is more widespread.
Then we can go through DP1.0, 1.1, 1.2 etc. all over again.

That could happen just not any time soon I hope.
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post #11 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

HDMI will go away when Display Port is more widespread.
Then we can go through DP1.0, 1.1, 1.2 etc. all over again.

I hate you

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #12 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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We are being forced by BluRay players to get HD audio. I know this is not a huge problem now, but say cable boxes allow for dts-hd in the future and you have your bluray player or ps3, you have to share a common HDMI port on your tv, which could limit your calibration settings.

In the present time, if you run all your analog and digital video to your receiver, say 4 devices, I highly doubt you have 4 presets for the single input your television is going to use. I guess this is not a big deal to those who don't calibrate each input for optimal visual quality. I guess I would just have to live with DD or DTS. The television manufacturers could help by adding an HDMI audio out...

And maybe killing HDMI will solve everything.
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post #13 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post

Everdog - The audio never has to be touched in your tv. It's digital. Just pass it on to my receiver as 1s and 0s.

Who wants to change picture memory every time they switch the source? My wife won't do it. I would, but don't feel I should have to. Most tv's only allow one truly customizable setting per input with things like Vivid, Game, Movie that are partially customizable. HDMI sucks. It was designed for noobs who need easy hookups... Give me separate audio and video any day.


I kinda agree here..... I have a Blu-ray player and HD DVD player but both have to be calibrated differently because the blu-ray player outputs a high level of brightness which is unwatchable. Since there is one output from the receiver I had to split the HDMI output into two different TV inputs so I could calibrate the players individually. I let my Harmony remote switch the TV inputs every time I watch the one or the other.
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post #14 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 08:43 PM
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America is a great country. You can sell anything to anyone for whatever they are willing to pay and that is exactly what is happening here.
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post #15 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 09:41 PM
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This may be why the resurgence in high end stereo people may be fed up with the fork
lift overhauls they are having to go through with a weakening economy.
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post #16 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 09:54 PM
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Perhaps some source devices will provide multiple HDMI outputs

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #17 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Perhaps some source devices will provide multiple HDMI outputs

The sad part is we had that with firewire it could be daisy chained also there
is usb 3.0 in the development so no there is absolutely no future proofing
electronics.
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post #18 of 126 Old 07-15-2008, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

This may be why the resurgence in high end stereo people may be fed up with the fork
lift overhauls they are having to go through with a weakening economy.

What?
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post #19 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by tdamocles View Post

I kinda agree here..... I have a Blu-ray player and HD DVD player but both have to be calibrated differently because the blu-ray player outputs a high level of brightness which is unwatchable. Since there is one output from the receiver I had to split the HDMI output into two different TV inputs so I could calibrate the players individually. I let my Harmony remote switch the TV inputs every time I watch the one or the other.

Ok, I'm really new to all of this. But my set up I had planned for consists of:
  1. Pioneer Elite Pro 111fd
  2. Dish 722VIP DVR
  3. Oppo 983H Up-Converting Universal DVD Player
  4. PS3 (60gb)
  5. Denon AVR-2309CI

Will I have to take same approach?
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post #20 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jlaavenger View Post

Ok, I'm really new to all of this. But my set up I had planned for consists of:
  1. Pioneer Elite Pro 111fd
  2. Dish 722VIP DVR
  3. Oppo 983H Up-Converting Universal DVD Player
  4. PS3 (60gb)
  5. Denon AVR-2309CI

Will I have to take same approach?

Probably.....unless the receiver has some sort of brightness/contrast/color/tint adjustability for each HDMI input. Maybe each input is similar in picture quality and than you won't have a problem. I see the PIO 1018 has some sort of Bightness/contrast/tint adjustment but I'm not sure if that affects each input or just the single output.

How many inputs does your TV have?
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post #21 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 06:28 AM
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The new Pioneer Elite SC-07 AVR does have four HDMI inputs along with two HDMI outputs. This will nicely handle two different brightness / calibration settings through two different inputs on the TV, or, send one to a flat screen on the wall and one to a drop down projector system. I agree, there needs to be more HDMI outputs than just one!

Stephen
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post #22 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you to the supporters for joining in the conversation. I knew I wasn't the only one that sees this as a potential problem in the future and for some, a problem now. I am not positive about this, but if televisions had say 4 totally customizable profiles per input and you could select these profiles using a harmony remote macro, then it wouldn't be an issue and I would stop complaining. Not to turn this into a display thread, but are there any tv's with this capability? I am in the market for a new one as my Sony A10 is being sold today.
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post #23 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 09:41 AM
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This may be a dumb question, but why the compelling need to customize per input, when it's digital? There's no analog circuit to screw it up.

Once you set the brightness and color as best you can, if the colors are wrong or not to your liking for a given source, it's the source's fault. For example, some games are really dark and others may be overly "colorful" but that's not an issue with the TV. Also, it's likely going to be on a per movie/game/show basis, so what help is adjusting settings per input?

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #24 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

This may be a dumb question, but why the compelling need to customize per input, when it's digital? There's no analog circuit to screw it up.

Once you set the brightness and color as best you can, if the colors are wrong or not to your liking for a given source, it's the source's fault. For example, some games are really dark and others may be overly "colorful" but that's not an issue with the TV. Also, it's likely going to be on a per movie/game/show basis, so what help is adjusting settings per input?


Primary reason is that there are different performance specification/tolerances which substantially effect the visual appearance of the native source/stream. And since the quality of HD video has been elevated significantly in recent times due to Blu Ray, these visual differences are more discernible to the less experienced.

This situation is similar to audio, listen closely to the sonic differences between various Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 tracks. Some are incredible and others are marginal, also depends the original production, studio standards/specs and attention applied during the mastering process as well.

Hope that clears up any confusion..

Just my $0.04...
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post #25 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 10:07 AM
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I will only add that my remote selects the proper preset for me.
Your rant is silly. You can after all run your audio and video how you see fit.
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post #26 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post

Who's forcing you? No one has to use HDMI... not even for the HD codecs.

CD

You can use the advanced codecs without HDMI? I didn't think coaxil could pass them?
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post #27 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 10:14 AM
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Heh, I've posted this same basic question in a few different forms myself. You definitely said it better, Slaughter.

For the most part, I think I'll be able to simply connect all of my HDMI stuff, the xbox, the cable box, directly to the tv (which has 4 hdmi connections) with separate digital audio running to the receiver when I need it.

The tricky part is going to get a high def surround format to the receiver and then the picture to the tv. I don't think I'll have a choice but to use the internal switching in that situation. Good thing I don't have a PS3, right?
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post #28 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

I will only add that my remote selects the proper preset for me.
Your rant is silly. You can after all run your audio and video how you see fit.

Okay, so half my battle is won, now I need 4 totally customizable profiles per input and we can close this thread.

MichaelJHuman - Just because the source is off color or different brightness, doesn't mean I should have to watch a poorly calibrated input. Should I punish myself because of the source?
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post #29 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 11:14 AM
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Sadly I never even thought of this issue before (still in the buying phase of my first HDMI receiver). The video settings for my current cable box and dvd player are significantly different, as I watch both in different lighting conditions. Looks like I might have to do some video workarounds myself in order to keep it that way. Thankfully it shouldn't be too bad given the location of my devices, but I agree that it is a problem (unless your display has multiple video settings for a single input as mentioned).
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post #30 of 126 Old 07-16-2008, 11:37 AM
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Slaughter, I think you've really hit upon something.

I purchased a hdmi switcher since I was running out of hdmi ports on my television and it occurred to me that I would lose my per-input settings. On my TV (a panny th-50ph10uka) I don't think there's any way to make a Harmony macro that would properly switch to a certain preset.

The only feasible solution I see is for receiver manufacturers to start providing comprehensive video adjustments for each hdmi input.
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