*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 273 - AVS Forum
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post #8161 of 11338 Old 06-07-2009, 09:57 PM
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Ya this avr? How hard?
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post #8162 of 11338 Old 06-07-2009, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by YouGandoo View Post

How hard is this to setup? Keep hearing its difficult

Depends on your level of experience with AVRs and consumer electronics gear in general. Just follow batpig's guide; you'll be fine.
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post #8163 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 10:18 AM
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Yes, if you are comfortable with modern AVR's and certain basic concepts, like:

1. assigning inputs to specific "names"
2. understanding the different video and audio formats
3. video conversion and different video input formats
4. basic AVR setup like balancing speaker levels, etc.

you should be fine. If this is your first modern receiver, there is a steep learning curve (and honestly it would be the same for most any brand, as modern receivers are very complex).

If you are new to modern AVR's, I strongly suggest you read the first post of the AVR FAQ stickied at the top of this forum. MichaelJHuman has done a great job aggregating a large amount of info that should be your first stop when you have a basic question like "is video conversion going to help?" or "what the heck does LFE mean?"

Once you have the basics down, you can utilize my website as a resource for Denon-specific setup help and questions.

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post #8164 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

James, My search on Celestion c1 didn't yield much info. Risking further forum wrath but indulging my curiosity on this topic, I would like to ask you a few questions, in the spirit of colleagial information exchange, about your remarkable results. Pease, no flaming from anyone!

1. When you say "specifically designed the c1's with split crossovers" are you referring to the common practice of speaker OEM's supplying dual speaker posts and a removable jumper on the back of the speaker cabinet, or something else?

2. Did you simply run two seperate sets of speaker wires to each speaker from the same channel terminals on the AVR ("biwiring") or connect the second set to the surround back amps-wait for it-dare I say it-here it comes-("passive biamping")?

3. Please don't take this one the wrong way, but what steps, if any, did you take to lessen the potential for innocently, sincerely misperceiving desired SQ improvement ("placebo")?

4. Which bi-amping thread were you reading exactly? (Perhaps we could move this discussion there?)


The entire Celestion C line was discontinued 5-6 years ago. I doubt that you will find anything on the net unless you happen to run across an old page.

I ran two separte wires from the same terminal. According to the manual, the jumpers are to be removed to split the crossover.

All I can tell you is that I ran a direct A-B comparison on my old set-up consisting of an Audiolab 8000P, Celestion SL6si speakers and a CD player. The SL6si do not have split corssovers. Using the same speaker cables I switched between the SL6si and the C1's. First I listened to the C1's with the jumpers installed. The sound was at best marginal. Bass was weak, mid range was muddy and the high end was harsh. I removed the jumpers, doubled the cables from the amp's outputs and the C1's became a very listenable speaker. Bass was better, midrange and hi end sounded better. Not nearly as good as the SL6si, but listenable. I can tell you that what I perceived was not what I thought I would hear. I bought the C1's off of ebay sight-unheard. I liked the celestion sound so I thought I could get an inexpensive speaker with some of the same celestion attributes. I did not hear this with the jumpers installed. I heard a flash of the celestion sound with the jumpers removed.



James
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post #8165 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 05:32 PM
 
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I ran two separte wires from the same terminal. According to the manual, the jumpers are to be removed to split the crossover.

At best all you think you heard was a placebo effect from you wanting to hear a difference...

What you seem to be overlooking...or at the very least trying to get us to believe...is that your removing the jumpers and then "doubled the cables from the amp's outputs" is doing NOTHING more than making new jumpers... Either using the factory supplied jumpers or using the speaker wires doubled the crossovers are connected and this cannot be denied...What you have done is "bi-wired" the speaker which accomplishes absolutely zero...

I mean go on and enjoy what you think you enjoy by all means...But please don't try to spread your fud here trying to get people that actually have an idea of how things are done believe you...
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post #8166 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

I mean go on and enjoy what you think you enjoy by all means...But please don't try to spread your fud here trying to get people that actually have an idea of how things are done believe you...

Yes take it..... from.. someone who........ speaks from.. experience.........
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post #8167 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 05:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Yes take it..... from.. someone who........ speaks from.. experience.........

Other than your...well documented...disgust...of my writing...style...do you have any...thing constructive to add...to this...thread???(NOTE...NO SPACES after the final period...ALL periods are 3 periods long and not a random number...)
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post #8168 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 05:50 PM
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Am I right in stating that the 1910 & 2310 do NOT have preouts for every channel? unfortunately thats a dealbreaker for me
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post #8169 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 05:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Vampyro View Post

Am I right in stating that the 1910 & 2310 do NOT have preouts for every channel? unfortunately thats a dealbreaker for me

This would be a great question for the 1910 thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1152799
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post #8170 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Other than your...well documented...disgust...of my writing...style...do you have any...thing constructive to add...to this...thread???(NOTE...NO SPACES after the final period...ALL periods are 3 periods long and not a random number...)

Dear readers, we may have grossly underestimated the meaning of Splicer's beloved "periods", mistaking them for grammatical sloppiness. Help from Wikipedia:

"Ellipsis (plural ellipses; from the Greek: ἔλλειψις, élleipsis, "omission") is a term in printing and writing that refers to a mark or series of marks that usually indicate an intentional omission of a word or a phrase from the original text...an unfinished thought or, at the end of a sentence, a trailing off into silence (aposiopesis)...The most common form of an ellipsis is a row of three periods...The use of ellipses can either mislead or clarify, and the reader must rely on the good intentions of the writer who uses them...In writing the speech of a character in fiction or nonfiction, the ellipsis is sometimes used to represent an intentional silence of a character, usually invoked to emphasize a character's irritation, appall, shock or disgust."

Is it that some of Splicer's most germaine thoughts, which might have revealed his thoughtful, open-minded & respectful facets (and perhaps even given some additional context and meaning to his posts), have been omitted by Splicer? Or are they as yet unfinished thoughts,to be completed at some later date in all their (currently hidden) glory? They are surely not an indicator of his appall and disgust with us?

Dare we hope they indicate a trailing off... into silence?

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #8171 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyro View Post

Am I right in stating that the 1910 & 2310 do NOT have preouts for every channel? unfortunately thats a dealbreaker for me

You are right, according to this backside view of the 2310 posted by bp on the "Any word from Denon about the 2009 - 2010 AVRs?" thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post16338706

The 2809 has a full set of preouts (but no PLIIz-is that pronounced puh-leez??).

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #8172 of 11338 Old 06-08-2009, 07:03 PM
 
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Can someone please check this out.. Do the two AC 120v outlets turn on and off with the remote when the unit in standby or only with the MAIN on/off power buttion on the front panel..??? I know the remote does turn the AC outlets on/off with the 589/1509 , but not sure about the 789/1909...
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post #8173 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 02:22 AM
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I'm seriously thinking of purchasing the Denon 1909 soon. I'm wondering if it is still the best choice in its price range considering Pioneer and Yamaha have new models out. I currently have a Pioneer VSX-45TX Elite which I love but unfortunetely does not have Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD. How does it perform with 8ohm speakers and does it have enough power for a 7.2 set up? I've read good things about Denon and love the look of the silver model. Thanks for any feedback.
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post #8174 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomuchtv View Post

Can someone please check this out.. Do the two AC 120v outlets turn on and off with the remote when the unit in standby or only with the MAIN on/off power buttion on the front panel..??? I know the remote does turn the AC outlets on/off with the 589/1509 , but not sure about the 789/1909...

When placed in STANDBY via the remote (w/HDMI Control - OFF), the 1909 outlets will be OFF, however, if HDMI Control is ON, then they will remain ON when the unit is placed in STANDBY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hsinnott View Post

How does it perform with 8ohm speakers and does it have enough power for a 7.2 set up? I've read good things about Denon and love the look of the silver model. Thanks for any feedback.

Depending on the size of your room and the efficiency of your speakers, the 1909 will perform admirably with a 7.2 setup and 8 ohm speakers. No comment on the silver as those are European models only.

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post #8175 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by hsinnott View Post

I'm seriously thinking of purchasing the Denon 1909 soon. I'm wondering if it is still the best choice in its price range considering Pioneer and Yamaha have new models out. I currently have a Pioneer VSX-45TX Elite which I love but unfortunetely does not have Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD. How does it perform with 8ohm speakers and does it have enough power for a 7.2 set up? I've read good things about Denon and love the look of the silver model. Thanks for any feedback.

absolutely worth buying! if you're a beginner this sounds great and sets itself up. if you're a control freak and want to adjust every setting you can (nearly) adjust every single setting you want. but the manual and remote is hopeless. it's natural sound is a warm one - not as bright as an onkyo yamaha or pioneer.

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post #8176 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 06:38 AM
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Two quick questions.

1. is there an easy way to switch from day to evening to midnight with the press of a button on the remote? I can't find any quick way to do this unless going into parameters.

2. How can I increase the center channel volume a little? I was looking for a setting on the receiver itself but can't find one. I did use the audyssey settings but need the center channel a little louder than it is now.

Thanks
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post #8177 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 07:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

When placed in STANDBY via the remote (w/HDMI Control - OFF), the 1909 outlets will be OFF, however, if HDMI Control is ON, then they will remain ON when the unit is placed in STANDBY.

Thanks , It works just the way you say, to bad its one way or the other ..I'll have to think of some other way for the tv timer to turn off the other hardware and not just the denon..
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post #8178 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

When placed in STANDBY via the remote (w/HDMI Control - OFF), the 1909 outlets will be OFF, however, if HDMI Control is ON, then they will remain ON when the unit is placed in STANDBY.



Depending on the size of your room and the efficiency of your speakers, the 1909 will perform admirably with a 7.2 setup and 8 ohm speakers. No comment on the silver as those are European models only.

Thanks for the info- I may actually be moving to Fort Lauderdale, FL next year..can you tell me if you need to have a lot of surge protectors etc in your system due to the thunderstorms/lightning?
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post #8179 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker97 View Post

absolutely worth buying! if you're a beginner this sounds great and sets itself up. if you're a control freak and want to adjust every setting you can (nearly) adjust every single setting you want. but the manual and remote is hopeless. it's natural sound is a warm one - not as bright as an onkyo yamaha or pioneer.

Thx- think I will take the plunge and pick one up next week. I heard the set up and manual on this is a nightmare but I should be able to figure it out eventually with the help of AVS threads.
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post #8180 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 08:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wallstreet123456 View Post

Two quick questions.

1. is there an easy way to switch from day to evening to midnight with the press of a button on the remote? I can't find any quick way to do this unless going into parameters.

2. How can I increase the center channel volume a little? I was looking for a setting on the receiver itself but can't find one. I did use the audyssey settings but need the center channel a little louder than it is now.

Thanks

Overall the denon remote is one of the best ones for EASY control over the Audyssey and channel level control. Just push the "CH SEL ENTER" buttion on the front of the remote till you see the channel you want to adjust on the denon display than push the outer ring < or > to change the levels, /\\ or \\/ to change to another speaker. For audyssey control the buttions are near the bottom of the remote, which makes it really easy. The setting you want is deep in the menu , but with other brands all or most control of audyssey is deep in the menu , which is one of the reasons why I like the denon over some other brands. As for front panel control , the lower far right hand side does it all , but the remote is easier.
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post #8181 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsinnott View Post

I'm seriously thinking of purchasing the Denon 1909 soon. I'm wondering if it is still the best choice in its price range considering Pioneer and Yamaha have new models out. I currently have a Pioneer VSX-45TX Elite which I love but unfortunetely does not have Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD. How does it perform with 8ohm speakers and does it have enough power for a 7.2 set up? I've read good things about Denon and love the look of the silver model. Thanks for any feedback.


I just picked up the 1909 for $399 at Ultimate Electronics. That is definitely worth it.
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post #8182 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 08:40 AM
 
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I just picked up the 1909 for $399 at Ultimate Electronics. That is definitely worth it.

Thats a good price, 450 is about as low as most will quote at this time .
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post #8183 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 08:50 AM
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So no easy way to do question number 1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomuchtv View Post

Overall the denon remote is one of the best ones for EASY control over the Audyssey and channel level control. Just push the "CH SEL ENTER" buttion on the front of the remote till you see the channel you want to adjust on the denon display than push the outer ring < or > to change the levels, /\\ or \\/ to change to another speaker. For audyssey control the buttions are near the bottom of the remote, which makes it really easy. The setting you want is deep in the menu , but with other brands all or most control of audyssey is deep in the menu , which is one of the reasons why I like the denon over some other brands. As for front panel control , the lower far right hand side does it all , but the remote is easier.

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post #8184 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsinnott View Post

Thanks for the info- I may actually be moving to Fort Lauderdale, FL next year..can you tell me if you need to have a lot of surge protectors etc in your system due to the thunderstorms/lightning?

Although I do use a power conditioner (as voltage tends to vary +/- 10 volts on either side of 120v) and just recently installed a whole house surge suppressor, lightning isn't really a problem here in Orlando (as much as it is in other cities). Might be different in Ft Lauderdale or most certainly in Clearwater which is known as the Lightning capital of the world. You'll need a power transformer though to convert the 230v/50hz AVR you're buying to the US 120v/60hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallstreet123456 View Post

So no easy way to do question number 2?

Tomuchtv actually answered your question in the second sentence of the paragraph you quoted. Just push the "CH SEL ENTER" buttion on the front of the remote till you see the channel you want to adjust on the denon display than push the outer ring < or > to change the levels, /\\ or \\/ to change to another speaker.

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post #8185 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 09:32 AM
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My mistake, I meant an easy way to do the change from day to evening to midnight?
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post #8186 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 09:40 AM
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not with the factory remote, but if you have a good universal (like a Harmony) there are discrete IR codes for Day/Eve/Mdnt

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post #8187 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsinnott View Post

I'm seriously thinking of purchasing the Denon 1909 soon. I'm wondering if it is still the best choice in its price range considering Pioneer and Yamaha have new models out. I currently have a Pioneer VSX-45TX Elite which I love but unfortunetely does not have Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD. How does it perform with 8ohm speakers and does it have enough power for a 7.2 set up? I've read good things about Denon and love the look of the silver model. Thanks for any feedback.

since I see you are on the other side of the pond, you may want to check out Home Cinema Choice's website as they have a large catalogue of reviews of the euro models with bench tests. Here is their archive of Denon reviews:

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/revi...denon&filter2=

The 1909 bench-tested at over 100W/ch with 5 channels driven into 8ohms, so good bet it comes close to its 90W/ch spec for 7 channels driven. Plus, since you plan to use TWO subs, you can give the amp even more "headroom" by setting all seven speakers to "small" with an 80Hz+ crossover and letting the dedicated amps in the subs do the heavy lifting.

I would avoid the new Yamaha models (ending in X65) in this price range, their amplification has been stripped down relative to the X63 models and they are missing some basic functionality like assigning digital inputs. The Pio's are very popular however, and seem to offer some interesting features (like ipod USB connectivity) that have a lot of fans.

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post #8188 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

not with the factory remote, but if you have a good universal (like a Harmony) there are discrete IR codes for Day/Eve/Mdnt

What a shame, you would think that something you might want to change three times a day would be easy to do, right?
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post #8189 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The 1909 bench-tested at over 100W/ch with 5 channels driven into 8ohms, so good bet it comes close to its 90W/ch spec for 7 channels driven. Plus, since you plan to use TWO subs, you can give the amp even more "headroom" by setting all seven speakers to "small" with an 80Hz+ crossover and letting the dedicated amps in the subs do the heavy lifting.

That is good to know
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post #8190 of 11338 Old 06-09-2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
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I just picked up the 1909 for $399 at Ultimate Electronics. That is definitely worth it.

wow- the cheapest I can find it here in Europe is $670...bloody rip off here
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