*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 11355 Old 08-15-2008, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fvbounty View Post

I have a Toshiba A30 HD DVD player hooked with hdmi 1.3 cable and on the Denon1909 it how says "multi channel in" on the Denon's screen, before when I had it hooked up to my old cheapy Sony av receiver with a optical cable it would say "Dolby Digital" on the Sony screen, is this normal?

Welcome to HD audio.

Multi Channel In is Multi Channel PCM. The A30 decodes HD audio into PCM, which your new Denon now can accept.


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post #812 of 11355 Old 08-15-2008, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post

Welcome to HD audio.

Multi Channel In is Multi Channel PCM. The A30 decodes HD audio into PCM, which your new Denon now can accept.


Thanks for the quick reply.....I'm learning slow but sure!
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post #813 of 11355 Old 08-15-2008, 02:56 PM
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CC has the 789 in their website now, 60 days price match (including their own), 30 days return.
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post #814 of 11355 Old 08-15-2008, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MaNArmY View Post

Yeah! How much better is the Cinema over the standard FLI23I0?

Most likely it's nothing different except it officially supports 1080p.
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post #815 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 07:06 AM
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I got my 1909 yesterday, and so far, have been pretty pleased with it. I had read about how bad the menu system was, but man, I was still surprised. It took me a few minutes to figure out what the different items meant and did. But I got it set up pretty quickly--I just can't imagine someone new to receivers trying to do the setup.

I have to say that both my wife and I are big fans of the dynamic volume, at least when watching TV. I haven't watched a movie with it yet, but I suspect we won't use DV for that. I asked her last night if she noticed that the commercials hadn't been blaring all night, and she said that until I'd mentioned it, she hadn't really thought about the volume--it was just a nice listening volume. I had to agree. I haven't really put the DV through its paces yet, but it seems that it even does a pretty good job of keeping the volume fairly consistent from channel to channel. I'll have to try to really play with it before I'll know for sure though.

I have noticed some weird things with the sound, where it almost seems like the volume is fluctuating a bit--I don't know whether this was the DV or something else entirely, but it's something I'll have to look into a little more. Either way, it really wasn't objectionable, just something I noticed. I could definitely appreciate the dynamic EQ too, because it seemed like it boosted the bass some when the volume was lower--everything just seemed to sound about the same whether I was listening loud or not. So it seems to work as advertised.

There does seem to be some delay when changing channels and switching inputs. My old Pioneer switched almost instantly, but then again it was doing almost no processing to the signals that came in. The delay is probably just a second or so, but it's something I noticed.

I do have one question for you all though. Under subwoofer setup, it gives me two options, LFE or LFE+Main. Which one do I want? The manual doesn't seem to give any explanation of what they actually mean, but the default is LFE. I have my speakers crossed over, so I want that to play in my subwoofer in addition to the LFE channel, but I don't want my speakers trying to duplicate what the sub is doing. Just wanted to see if anyone knew which setting I needed. Thanks for your help! I'll let you know if I notice anything else of note.
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post #816 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 07:17 AM
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You do not say what your speakers and crossovers are but you are better off with LFE only and adjusting crossovers. Audyssey uses higher resolution filters for the sub so if you raise crossovers the wider frequency range in the sub gets corrected to a greater degree. See the Audyssey thread.

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post #817 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 07:27 AM
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Any Networked dock users yet ? Which server software (Ubuntu/Windows) works best for DLNA use ?
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post #818 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drrick View Post

I got my 1909 yesterday, and so far, have been pretty pleased with it. I had read about how bad the menu system was, but man, I was still surprised. It took me a few minutes to figure out what the different items meant and did. But I got it set up pretty quickly--I just can't imagine someone new to receivers trying to do the setup.

I have to say that both my wife and I are big fans of the dynamic volume, at least when watching TV. I haven't watched a movie with it yet, but I suspect we won't use DV for that. I asked her last night if she noticed that the commercials hadn't been blaring all night, and she said that until I'd mentioned it, she hadn't really thought about the volume--it was just a nice listening volume. I had to agree. I haven't really put the DV through its paces yet, but it seems that it even does a pretty good job of keeping the volume fairly consistent from channel to channel. I'll have to try to really play with it before I'll know for sure though.

I have noticed some weird things with the sound, where it almost seems like the volume is fluctuating a bit--I don't know whether this was the DV or something else entirely, but it's something I'll have to look into a little more. Either way, it really wasn't objectionable, just something I noticed. I could definitely appreciate the dynamic EQ too, because it seemed like it boosted the bass some when the volume was lower--everything just seemed to sound about the same whether I was listening loud or not. So it seems to work as advertised.

There does seem to be some delay when changing channels and switching inputs. My old Pioneer switched almost instantly, but then again it was doing almost no processing to the signals that came in. The delay is probably just a second or so, but it's something I noticed.

I do have one question for you all though. Under subwoofer setup, it gives me two options, LFE or LFE+Main. Which one do I want? The manual doesn't seem to give any explanation of what they actually mean, but the default is LFE. I have my speakers crossed over, so I want that to play in my subwoofer in addition to the LFE channel, but I don't want my speakers trying to duplicate what the sub is doing. Just wanted to see if anyone knew which setting I needed. Thanks for your help! I'll let you know if I notice anything else of note.

LFE+MAIN or LFE+L/R is a good option i believe, that way it gets both LFE signals as well as the low bass of your mains, even if they go low i think it is a good option; just make sure your xovers are set up right for your mains
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post #819 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 08:36 AM
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so i just got the denon 1909 set up last night, with my current config (LR+center, no sub) which is pretty anemic, lucky my mains go somewhat low (they're 8" woofers). I have such appreciation for this avr unit; in my opinion it is such high quality versus my last (HK avr-254). after having things hooked up, i played around with the menus (clunky as hell) but still work and much better than a VFD, but i'm glad they took more time on the unit itself and not the menu system.
immediately after having it hooked up, i noticed drastic reduction in ad's and tv stations from jumping the volume around; and i didn't even run the audyssey setup! so after playing around with it more today and calibrating it (drastically improved the audio) I turned on the audyssey features and WOW, absolutely no volume and conditioning issues i had with other avrs and cable tvs craziness. it is rock solid volume and to boot the fullness of the sound and leveling across the frequency ranges at moderate volumes is incredible; i can actually hear elements of the show even at low volumes, it makes watching cable tv an actual pleasure, when before it was painful at times.
but to really take the cake, aside from the enormous configuration abilities (including an EQ with 9 band frequencies to tweak for the channels) is that I accidentally found out I can control the AVR with my panasonic tv! yea, i had no idea about this, but the viera link is basic HDMi controlling, so I imagine sony's dlna or whatever it is called, works as well. from my tv remote, I can control volume and power completely, which makes turning on and off and basic volume a breeze for the girlfriend, and a bit easier for me! i no longer am required to jostle 3 controllers for basic functions. if your curious about this, goto manual setup->hdmi and scroll to page 2 and turn on HDMI control, then i went to my panasonic and turned on viera controls, reset the tv and could control both now. just a little nice feature i thought didn't even exist without other panasonic equipment.

now for some more speakers! ;P
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post #820 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 09:07 AM
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See, this is my confusion, and it seems like there are different thoughts. Does LFE send only the LFE (meaning the crossovers are ignored and everything is full range)? Or does LFE+Main mean that the sub gets the LFE and crossed over frequencies, but so do your mains (L&R)? I basically want my subs to handle the LFE and also to play the crossed over frequencies from my other speakers. I've got some small towers in the front, but I don't want them to try to duplicate the same frequencies my sub is. I hope I'm being clear in what I want to happen and in what my confusion is. I may just have to do some tests to see which setting does what--but if anyone actually knows, I'd love to hear the answer.
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post #821 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 09:50 AM
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Yes LFE is only LFE for the sub. Yes LFE+Main means that the sub gets the LFE and crossed over frequencies, but so do any speakers (but not the LFE signal) set to Large (not necessarily the same thing as L&R). The problem is there are very, very few speakers you wound want to get full range signals which is what LFE+Main would do for any speakers set to Large. What you want is Sub=Yes LFE, speakers all set to Small with crossovers. If crossovers are set to 80Hz the sub would get LFE plus everything from all other channels below 80 Hz and the 5 speakers get everything for there own channel above 80Hz. Again, see the Audyssey thread.

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post #822 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 09:53 AM
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On page 47 of the 1909 manual, under 'Parameters' Section 3 deals with 'DRC' and Section 4 discusses 'Dynamic Range Compression'.

Are these the same? In section 4 it does have a p.s. blurb 'When playing DTS sources, this is only displayed for compatible software.'

Would I be correct in assuming Section 3 DRC is only for Dolby Digital and Section 4 Dynamic Range Compression is only for DTS?

Thanks for any replies.
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post #823 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 12:50 PM
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The Denon 1909 is now in the Harmony database.

DaveG
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post #824 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 12:58 PM
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Does it have Day, Evening, Night?

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post #825 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Does it have Day, Evening, Night?

It has "night" mode. It looks to me that most of the more complex commands will have to be added manually--such as the quick select buttons and the Audessey commands. My take on the Harmony product is that is designed to simplify basic operations of A/V equipment.

DaveG
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post #826 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 01:45 PM
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I meant to say Midnight. Anyway how painful is it to substitute on Denon AVR for another in the Harmony? Does it help to add one device before deleting the other?

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post #827 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

I meant to say Midnight. Anyway how painful is it to substitute on Denon AVR for another in the Harmony? Does it help to add one device before deleting the other?

It is very easy to install the new device. I had used the 1709 as my AVR device and deleted it once I had installed the 1909. I have four activities: Watch TV, TV w/stereo, HD-DVD and BluRay. So I had to reprogram 3 activities.

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post #828 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Does it have Day, Evening, Night?

Dynamic volume day, night, midnight are not there. There is night which is night mode (not night of dynamic volume)
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post #829 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 02:16 PM
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Setup my 1909 last night. Overall very happy w/ the sound. I am coming from an Onkyo TXSR 600 that is probably 6 years old or so. I am using a Polk RM6600 sub/sat system that is also 6 or 7 years old. I had previously connected the Polk subwoofer using Polk's recommended speaker level inputs (basically run the AVR outputs for FL and FR to the SW and then connect the FL and FR to the SW and tell the system you have Large fronts and no SW). Apparently the recommended crossover for these sats is 150Hz and since many receivers didn't let you set the crossover that high back 6 years ago Polk suggested you use their method.

For the Denon I got a SW cable and connected it to the Polk SW's (PSW 350) unfiltered LFE input. Set the volume knob on the SW to 12:00 and ran Audyssey. Fortunately Audyssey came back with crossover points of 150 Hz for the fronts and center and 120 Hz for the surrounds so I think it nailed it (was a little worried it would come back w/ a low crossover). However the LFE crossover (in Manual Setup / Speaker Setup / Crossover Freq) is at 80 Hz - do I want to change this?

Also I have noticed that the bass seems to be much more present than it was before. It is very possible my system was not set up properly before (not even sure where the LFE knob on the SW was set) but now if I am in another room I can hear some rumbling of the SW every now and then when just watching regular TV (the Olympics earlier today for example). I know you don't want to mess around w/ the SW volume knob after running Audyssey but wondering if the bass I am hearing is normal and if it isn't how I adjust for it? Do I need to change some settings and then re-run Auto Setup?

Messed around w/ Dynamic Volume and I think I like the Evening setting the best. Daytime doesn't seem to do enough and Midnight muffles the sound too much. So I am basically leaving Evening on for all of my inputs.

Only other complaint w/ the 1909 is the menu system - really clunky and sluggish. Takes a second or two to pop up on HDMI. And for my AppleTV which I am passing 720p only to the Denon, I can't get the menu to pop up at all (not sure if that has anything to do w/ the resolution but the menus work on my other HDMI inputs). With the exception of the Dynamic Volume settings, I am not sure I will need to get in there very often but the fact that you can't do it on the fly while watching a DVD or TV show is kind of frustrating.

Otherwise very happy.
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post #830 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 02:42 PM
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It's right there, can't miss it...



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post #831 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 03:39 PM
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I just re-programed my harmony 880, the Dynamic Volume controls for "day", "evening" and "midnight" are there but you can't scroll down using the up and down arrows on the remote. Under devices click on Denon 1909 then on the forth page of controls click "setup" then "parameters" then the Audyssey page comes up, here's is where you can change the settings but you can't scroll down to change the day, evening and midnight settings....close but no cigar yet!
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post #832 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamos View Post

My take on the Harmony product is that is designed to simplify basic operations of A/V equipment.

I disagree. With most equipment, Harmony allows you to do just about anything with their remote. You do have to, once in a while, learn a command, but I've found most capabilities are there for most equipment. In fact, I think being able to do whatever you want with any of your equipment is one of the strengths of the harmony line.

I suspect the problem here is just how new this piece of gear is and how few people own it.

Brian
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post #833 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post

Most likely it's nothing different except it officially supports 1080p.

could you assume that the Geneis FLI23I0 video processing chip will scale
480i TV programs better than the chip in my Hitachi 57S 700 RPTV (2003) or the DirecTV STB HR-21? I was hoping that the chip in the receiver could hold me over until I purchase a flat panel but there is no immediate need as my PQ is more than satisfactory.

Where would I find info on the video processing chip in my display?

Samsung 60 F7500

Denon 3808CI

Sony BDP-S790 3D/Bluray

Harmony 900
 

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post #834 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MaNArmY View Post

could you assume that the Geneis FLI23I0 video processing chip will scale
480i TV programs better than the chip in my Hitachi 57S 700 RPTV (2003) or the DirecTV STB HR-21?

Never seen your TV or this iteration of the FLI2310 but the STB is quite crappy, I know.

Quote:


I was hoping that the chip in the receiver could hold me over until I purchase a flat panel but there is no immediate need as my PQ is more than satisfactory.

Where would I find info on the video processing chip in my display?

How about Hitachi's page?
Try to get the service manual...
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post #835 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricScott View Post

Setup my 1909 last night. Overall very happy w/ the sound. I am coming from an Onkyo TXSR 600 that is probably 6 years old or so. I am using a Polk RM6600 sub/sat system that is also 6 or 7 years old. I had previously connected the Polk subwoofer using Polk's recommended speaker level inputs (basically run the AVR outputs for FL and FR to the SW and then connect the FL and FR to the SW and tell the system you have Large fronts and no SW). Apparently the recommended crossover for these sats is 150Hz and since many receivers didn't let you set the crossover that high back 6 years ago Polk suggested you use their method.

For the Denon I got a SW cable and connected it to the Polk SW's (PSW 350) unfiltered LFE input. Set the volume knob on the SW to 12:00 and ran Audyssey. Fortunately Audyssey came back with crossover points of 150 Hz for the fronts and center and 120 Hz for the surrounds so I think it nailed it (was a little worried it would come back w/ a low crossover). However the LFE crossover (in Manual Setup / Speaker Setup / Crossover Freq) is at 80 Hz - do I want to change this?

Also I have noticed that the bass seems to be much more present than it was before. It is very possible my system was not set up properly before (not even sure where the LFE knob on the SW was set) but now if I am in another room I can hear some rumbling of the SW every now and then when just watching regular TV (the Olympics earlier today for example). I know you don't want to mess around w/ the SW volume knob after running Audyssey but wondering if the bass I am hearing is normal and if it isn't how I adjust for it? Do I need to change some settings and then re-run Auto Setup?

Messed around w/ Dynamic Volume and I think I like the Evening setting the best. Daytime doesn't seem to do enough and Midnight muffles the sound too much. So I am basically leaving Evening on for all of my inputs.

Only other complaint w/ the 1909 is the menu system - really clunky and sluggish. Takes a second or two to pop up on HDMI. And for my AppleTV which I am passing 720p only to the Denon, I can't get the menu to pop up at all (not sure if that has anything to do w/ the resolution but the menus work on my other HDMI inputs). With the exception of the Dynamic Volume settings, I am not sure I will need to get in there very often but the fact that you can't do it on the fly while watching a DVD or TV show is kind of frustrating.

Otherwise very happy.

if your sub is LFE @ 80hz, and your surround and front speakers are @ 120hz, i would only guess there has to be a gap in information sent to the sub...it just seems logical. if your sub is in the front of your room and near the main speakers i would suggest running it up to maybe even 120hz, you'll be able to localize it a bit better, but if it's up front it will seem like your front speakers instead. there is only so much you can do though with most speakers, though i'm a bit suprised it crossed it over your mains at 120hz, that's rather high in my opinion; what is the driver size (also is it ported)? maybe look up the manufacturers specifications of the freq. range. even if it was a 5" driver, you should get atleast 80hz..
this is of course just my opinion if you like what you hear i say let it roll on as is
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post #836 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scape View Post

if your sub is LFE @ 80hz, and your surround and front speakers are @ 120hz, i would only guess there has to be a gap in information sent to the sub...it just seems logical. if your sub is in the front of your room and near the main speakers i would suggest running it up to maybe even 120hz, you'll be able to localize it a bit better, but if it's up front it will seem like your front speakers instead. there is only so much you can do though with most speakers, though i'm a bit suprised it crossed it over your mains at 120hz, that's rather high in my opinion; what is the driver size (also is it ported)? maybe look up the manufacturers specifications of the freq. range. even if it was a 5" driver, you should get atleast 80hz..
this is of course just my opinion if you like what you hear i say let it roll on as is

I spoke to 2 people at Polk tech support and they said the recommend crossover for the satellites is 150 Hz. So I think Audyssey got that right (they had the fronts and center at 150 and the surrounds at 120).

Here are the specs:

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/rm6600/

So I really just want to know what to do w/ the LFE setting. My sub is in the front maybe 4 feet to the right of my right front speaker. Sounds like I should increase it to 120Hz.
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post #837 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricScott View Post

Setup my 1909 last night. Overall very happy w/ the sound. I am coming from an Onkyo TXSR 600 that is probably 6 years old or so. I am using a Polk RM6600 sub/sat system that is also 6 or 7 years old. I had previously connected the Polk subwoofer using Polk's recommended speaker level inputs (basically run the AVR outputs for FL and FR to the SW and then connect the FL and FR to the SW and tell the system you have Large fronts and no SW). Apparently the recommended crossover for these sats is 150Hz and since many receivers didn't let you set the crossover that high back 6 years ago Polk suggested you use their method.

For the Denon I got a SW cable and connected it to the Polk SW's (PSW 350) unfiltered LFE input. Set the volume knob on the SW to 12:00 and ran Audyssey. Fortunately Audyssey came back with crossover points of 150 Hz for the fronts and center and 120 Hz for the surrounds so I think it nailed it (was a little worried it would come back w/ a low crossover). However the LFE crossover (in Manual Setup / Speaker Setup / Crossover Freq) is at 80 Hz - do I want to change this?

Also I have noticed that the bass seems to be much more present than it was before. It is very possible my system was not set up properly before (not even sure where the LFE knob on the SW was set) but now if I am in another room I can hear some rumbling of the SW every now and then when just watching regular TV (the Olympics earlier today for example). I know you don't want to mess around w/ the SW volume knob after running Audyssey but wondering if the bass I am hearing is normal and if it isn't how I adjust for it? Do I need to change some settings and then re-run Auto Setup?

Messed around w/ Dynamic Volume and I think I like the Evening setting the best. Daytime doesn't seem to do enough and Midnight muffles the sound too much. So I am basically leaving Evening on for all of my inputs.

Only other complaint w/ the 1909 is the menu system - really clunky and sluggish. Takes a second or two to pop up on HDMI. And for my AppleTV which I am passing 720p only to the Denon, I can't get the menu to pop up at all (not sure if that has anything to do w/ the resolution but the menus work on my other HDMI inputs). With the exception of the Dynamic Volume settings, I am not sure I will need to get in there very often but the fact that you can't do it on the fly while watching a DVD or TV show is kind of frustrating.

Otherwise very happy.

I have noticed the same thing with the bass will watching the olympics. I have turned my bass down and also I have started using the 5 channel stereo option which seems to sound the best on my system. BTW my crossovers are set to 80.
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post #838 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Yes LFE is only LFE for the sub. Yes LFE+Main means that the sub gets the LFE and crossed over frequencies, but so do any speakers (but not the LFE signal) set to Large (not necessarily the same thing as L&R). The problem is there are very, very few speakers you wound want to get full range signals which is what LFE+Main would do for any speakers set to Large. What you want is Sub=Yes LFE, speakers all set to Small with crossovers. If crossovers are set to 80Hz the sub would get LFE plus everything from all other channels below 80 Hz and the 5 speakers get everything for there own channel above 80Hz. Again, see the Audyssey thread.

Just to be clear for the crowd, the LFE+Main vs. LFE setting only affects speakers set to LARGE. If you set a speaker to SMALL, then anything below the crossover is sent to the sub -- this setting can't have any effect on them.

But if you set a speaker to LARGE, you can choose to "double up" the bass on the low end by having the sub STILL get the low-end frequencies (non LFE).

In other words, let's say you set your fronts to LARGE:

"LFE" = the large front speakers get full-range from the front channels, the sub gets only the LFE

"LFE + MAIN" = the large fronts get full-range, the sub gets LFE but the sub ALSO gets a duplicate signal of the low-end below the crossover freq., i.e. the sub is playing LFE + doubling-up the bass of the front.

For most setups, it's better to go SMALL all around, in which case the setting is meaningless AFAIK.

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post #839 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 08:51 PM
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Batpig, thanks for that. That's exactly the answer I was looking for (and you explained it in a way that I understand ) That seemed like the most intuitive way for it to work, but not everything on this receiver is necessarily "intuitive", so I appreciate some outside confirmation. I'll just set it to LFE, since all my speakers are set to small, and I wouldn't want to double up anyway.
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post #840 of 11355 Old 08-16-2008, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mchalebk View Post

I disagree. With most equipment, Harmony allows you to do just about anything with their remote. You do have to, once in a while, learn a command, but I've found most capabilities are there for most equipment. In fact, I think being able to do whatever you want with any of your equipment is one of the strengths of the harmony line.

I suspect the problem here is just how new this piece of gear is and how few people own it.

I agree that you can execute most commands for most equipment, but the primary reason to have a Harmony is to eliminate the extra remotes, and turn everything on with one button, and then operate the basic functions with one remote. Scrolling through the Harmony screen to find each command can be a little tedious. The Harmony also allows the less technically savvy members of the household to work everything easily. Since we have had the Harmony, my wife has not had to call me to explain how to play a DVD.

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