*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 12:36 PM
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post #62 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 12:48 PM
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Are there any former Harmon Kardon owners that have switched to Denon

I'm currently waiting for all my speakers to arrive before deciding on a new receiver, but I was strongly considering the new denon 1909 as my top choice due to all the audessey features. I'm coming from a ~10 year old yamaha receiver and having a solid calibration function along with enough HDMI connections are my two main factors for consideration. I've also kept tabs on the HK 254 thread due to all the glowing reviews regarding sound quality and I like the fact that the 254 has pre-outs as well, even though I'm not 100% on adding an external amp in the future.

All that being said, can anyone comment on the difference in sound between the denons and hks? I know it's all subjective, but it's still informative for me. I will be connecting a 360, ps3, and cable box via HDMI, playing through Swan Diva 6.1s/C3/2.1s with MFW-15 sub, displaying on a 1080p Samsung DLP.

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post #63 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBassTurd View Post

IBasically the main feature that I want is the Analog-HDMI upscaling to 1080P.
Do you guys think I should go with the AVR-888 which is nearing it's end of life, or go with the newer AVR-1909, even though I think it's a slightly lesser model. Has Denon set a release date for the AVR-889 model?

2308/888 and 1909/789 have identical Faroudja video processing, so there will be no difference in that regard. The both are very similar, except:

1. the primary (only?) benefit of the newer 1909/789 is the new Audyssey implementations, Dynamic Volume and EQ. This is pretty much the reason to get the newer unit. (EDIT: plus of course the third HDMI input)

2. the 888/2308 will be slightly better in most other respects -- a little more power, a few more inputs (can handle one more video device), the front panel aux input has a digital optical connection + s-video (only composite on the 1909), 12V trigger output, etc. most of it is minor stuff but if you have a complex setup you may want the extra flexibility.

I wouldn't worry about the power difference, unless you have inefficient speakers that are 6ohms or something. The 888/2308 is heavier and has a more robust power supply, but if you have normal speaker load (8ohms, pretty efficient) it won't matter.

Basically, the 1909/789 will be great for 90% of people unless you need some of the upgrade features of the 2308/888 model. However, given the new models and their extra features (more HDMI, audyssey improvements), I would only buy the 888 if you can get a great deal on a closeout or open box. If the price is equal, you should probably go with the new model.

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post #64 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphy4040 View Post

PThe second time I ran the six locations in a different order. Does anyone know if that makes a difference?

The other ones don't matter but what does matter is that the first one should be made in the primary listening position. The first location is the most important one by far and the rest are done in relation to that primary point to create that "acoustic bubble". Check out the official Audyssey thread for more info...

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post #65 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 01:47 PM
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If you could get a 1909 for $325, would you? Is it a no brainer?
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post #66 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 01:50 PM
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I would! But that depends on a lot of things -- does it have the features YOU want, do YOU have better options available, is money a big issue? You cannot make a blanket statement because while the 1909 may have everything one person wants, it may not be right for others.

Plus, is it some shady internet vendor with no warranty and sketchy reviews, etc.?

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post #67 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 04:16 PM
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I can get it straight from Denon. I'm torn between spending a lot for a receiver and just getting one that will suit my needs. This one will suit my needs but being that I kind get any of the Denon or Yamaha receivers for cost I'm tempted to get one of the upper end models. I'll probably just get the 1909.
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post #68 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 04:34 PM
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If you can get me one while you're at it...

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post #69 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey791 View Post

Millerville or Mall of Louisiana?

Checked the one in Mall of LA, they were the ones that said they didn't carry denon. Looked online and the only BB store in south la that seems to have them is metairie...and they won't answer the phone for me to check and see if they have them in stock.
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post #70 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geodon005 View Post

1st Post: If anyone is still looking to buy the 1909 there is a local store by me that has 7 of them in stock. Their website is stopattheshop.com

They are a smaller mom-pop shop so if you want to order your going to have to call them and work it out with them. 585-424-1820

Reply to 1st Post: As of 11:00 AM Central Time on 7/18, they still had 6 1909s left in stock; price is $599. Shipping to Chicago from Rochester, NY, would be about $20. Only catch is that they will NOT allow credit card purchases over the phone; you have to mail them a check.

Thanks to geodon005. They had two of them this morning, but after a 3 hour drive, they now have 1 left.
It'll be a little while before I hook it up since I'm still finishing my room.

Not sure how accurate this info is:

1909:
Made in China
Single shared transformer for all channels
THD .08

2309:
Made in Japan
Separate transformers per channel
THD .05
At least a couple weeks before its released
+10WPC
+$200
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post #71 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 08:31 PM
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I'd really like to read a pro review of the 1909 by someone like AVREV, Home Theater Mag, Ultimate AV, Sound & Vision, Audioholics, or Secrets of Home Theater...

Please
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post #72 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiguredMaple View Post

Thanks to geodon005. They had two of them this morning, but after a 3 hour drive, they now have 1 left.

Credit where credit is due: the first part of my post comes from scl789, post # 1007 over in the "Denon's 2008-09 Receivers announced" thread. I didn't know how to get all his info into this new thread! But if my followup helped you out, I am glad.

Let us know how everything works, especially Dynamic Volume, OK?
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post #73 of 11388 Old 07-21-2008, 10:52 PM
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i have a AVR-688 right now and im looking at the new 1909 will there be a big sound improvement ? also does the 1909 have GUI
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post #74 of 11388 Old 07-22-2008, 08:15 AM
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I posted this over in the Denon 2008-09 Receivers thread but hope to get some response from here too:

I'm hedging between the 1909/789 and the 2309/889. I've read these threads and am confused.

In the 1909/789 thread at post 79, FiguredMaple says he's not sure of his information, but that the 1909/789 has a shared transformer for all channels and the 2309/889 has separate transformers for all channels. I've read other posts where it's 2 versus 3, etc.

So, here are the questions:
1. Where do you find out this information about the power transformers?
2. Is there an inherent advantage to extra transformers?
3. Maybe the reason I've never purchased a Denon product is their confusing marketing strategy. It appears the 789 and the 889 have the same features as the respective 1909 and 2309. Why do they do this?
4. If the 789 and the 889 have the same features as the 1909 and 2309 but at a lower price, why buy the higher priced models?
5. Does 'MadeinJapan' vs. 'MadeinXXXX' matter? I've had dozens of products made in Taiwan, China, ect. without any problems. My Toshiba HDA2 is Japanese and my SamsungBDP1400 is somewhere else but both work ok.

Thanks for any help.
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post #75 of 11388 Old 07-22-2008, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocaje View Post

3. Maybe the reason I've never purchased a Denon product is their confusing marketing strategy. It appears the 789 and the 889 have the same features as the respective 1909 and 2309. Why do they do this?
4. If the 789 and the 889 have the same features as the 1909 and 2309 but at a lower price, why buy the higher priced models?

You know, the thread is only 3 pages long, and this question was already jokingly referred to on page 1, and then answered on page 2. Please RTFT.

I don't know anything about the transformers, but that seems to be from their marketing materials and press releases. I have owned 1905, 2105, 3803, and now 2307ci, and the sound quality difference is very slight between "tiers" of models. They all sound good and I've never felt the need for more power, but I have an easy-to-drive setup.

If you read reviews like those at Home Cinema Choice or Home Theater Mag, where they actually do bench tests, you can see that the higher models do actually get successively more powerful, but this should only be an issue if you have a difficult load (6 ohm speakers, or just inefficient 8ohms) or are trying to drive 7 large speakers to reference volume.

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post #76 of 11388 Old 07-22-2008, 11:01 AM
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I'm hoping to pickup my 1909 today but here's a couple of questions for those that already have them.

Does the Denon play Uncompressed 5.1 audio over the HDMI feed from a Blu-ray player? The Onkyo 606 does and properly identifies it on the front display so I can't imagine that the Denon wouldn't as well.

Do you have video conversion disabled on the HDMI input that your BR player is on or if it's on auto are you getting a full quality (no internal processing) 1080P/24 feed to your TV?
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post #77 of 11388 Old 07-22-2008, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post

Does the Denon play Uncompressed 5.1 audio over the HDMI feed from a Blu-ray player?

Um, no offense, but isn't that the whole point of buying a new HDMI receiver with the new audio codecs? Of course it does!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post

Do you have video conversion disabled on the HDMI input that your BR player is on or if it's on auto are you getting a full quality (no internal processing) 1080P/24 feed to your TV?

AFAIK the 1909 is unable to do any video processing on HDMI inputs (EDIT: except for 480i-480p deinterlacing, see pg 40 of the manual). It should leave blu ray untouched.

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post #78 of 11388 Old 07-22-2008, 11:05 PM
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i picked up a 1909 tonight.. i had to test a denon 09!
i'm looking forward to a/b 'ing this against the pioneer 1018 which i'm returning tomorrow if i like the denon better!
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post #79 of 11388 Old 07-22-2008, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoami View Post

i picked up a 1909 tonight.. i had to test a denon 09!
i'm looking forward to a/b 'ing this against the pioneer 1018 which i'm returning tomorrow if i like the denon better!

Very much looking forward to your review as many of us are looking at these two.

What speakers are you hooking it up to?
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post #80 of 11388 Old 07-22-2008, 11:41 PM
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Very much looking forward to your review as many of us are looking at these two.

What speakers are you hooking it up to?

klipsch reference series/martinlogan sub.
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post #81 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocaje View Post

I posted this over in the Denon 2008-09 Receivers thread but hope to get some response from here too:

I'm hedging between the 1909/789 and the 2309/889. I've read these threads and am confused.

In the 1909/789 thread at post 79, FiguredMaple says he's not sure of his information, but that the 1909/789 has a shared transformer for all channels and the 2309/889 has separate transformers for all channels. I've read other posts where it's 2 versus 3, etc.

So, here are the questions:
1. Where do you find out this information about the power transformers?
2. Is there an inherent advantage to extra transformers?
3. Maybe the reason I've never purchased a Denon product is their confusing marketing strategy. It appears the 789 and the 889 have the same features as the respective 1909 and 2309. Why do they do this?
4. If the 789 and the 889 have the same features as the 1909 and 2309 but at a lower price, why buy the higher priced models?
5. Does 'MadeinJapan' vs. 'MadeinXXXX' matter? I've had dozens of products made in Taiwan, China, ect. without any problems. My Toshiba HDA2 is Japanese and my SamsungBDP1400 is somewhere else but both work ok.

Thanks for any help.

The 1909 is much better value for money, don't waste your money. The next step up in quality is the 2809 which has Auddessy Multi-Eq XT instead of standard Multi-EQ which in lay terms means that it also does room correction for the sub-woofer and lower bass. If you like your bass this is a worthwhile additional cost to bear. Most of the decent Blu-Ray and DVD players have very good upscaling anyway and the extra power is neither here nor there.

Truth
Malice may attack it
Ignorance may deride it
But at the end of the day there it is
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post #82 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

AFAIK the 1909 is unable to do any video processing on HDMI inputs (EDIT: except for 480i-480p deinterlacing, see pg 40 of the manual). It should leave blu ray untouched.

What are you reading that says it will deinterlace an HDMI input?
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post #83 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broke_ht_nut View Post

The 1909 is much better value for money, don't waste your money. The next step up in quality is the 2809 which has Auddessy Multi-Eq XT instead of standard Multi-EQ which in lay terms means that it also does room correction for the sub-woofer and lower bass. If you like your bass this is a worthwhile additional cost to bear. Most of the decent Blu-Ray and DVD players have very good upscaling anyway and the extra power is neither here nor there.

Thanks for the reply. But I think MultEQ does do room correction for the bass. Here are copy and paste quotes from Audyssey's website:
"MultEQ XT, using the receiver interface, takes up to 8 measurements around the listening area and uses high resolution equalization filters for satellites and subwoofers. This is the most powerful built-in version of MultEQ for receivers."
"MultEQ takes up to 6 room position measurements, and uses mid-level resolution filters for satellites and subwoofers."

If that's true, then the 1909 is an even better deal.
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post #84 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocaje View Post

Thanks for the reply. But I think MultEQ does do room correction for the bass. Here are copy and paste quotes from Audyssey's website:
"MultEQ XT, using the receiver interface, takes up to 8 measurements around the listening area and uses high resolution equalization filters for satellites and subwoofers. This is the most powerful built-in version of MultEQ for receivers."
"MultEQ takes up to 6 room position measurements, and uses mid-level resolution filters for satellites and subwoofers."

True, however MultEQ XT puts more focus on the lower bass and subwoofer than regular MultEQ. So it really is substantially better.
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post #85 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sterryo View Post

True, however MultEQ XT puts more focus on the lower bass and subwoofer than regular MultEQ. So it really is substantially better.

In AV receivers - Subwoofer filter for MultEQ and MultEQ XT is same in both the versions i.,e 8x resolution. You can find this info on audyssey site or at AVS official audyssey thread.

Satellite resolution is the only difference between the above two versions.
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post #86 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_13 View Post

In AV receivers - Subwoofer filter for MultEQ and MultEQ XT is same in both the versions i.,e 8x resolution. You can find this info on audyssey site or at AVS official audyssey thread.

Satellite resolution is the only difference between the above two versions.

Not to argue with you, HDMI_13, but where in Audyssey's website is this indicated? Confirming this will determine whether I shoot for the 2309 or 2809.
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post #87 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 08:43 AM
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It appears to me from reading this thread and the manual that if you connected a bluray player such as the Panasonic BD50 using the HDMI cable you would have to use the BD50 to upscale the SD 480i to 1080p rather than using the upscaler in the 1909.

If that is true the upscaler in the 1909 is pretty much irrelevant for improving the appearance of standard dvd's. Am I missing something?
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post #88 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geodon005 View Post

Not to argue with you, HDMI_13, but where in Audyssey's website is this indicated? Confirming this will determine whether I shoot for the 2309 or 2809.

I got this info from Audyssey CTO .

See my post in Audyssey thread. You can also find Chris (Audyssey CTO) response below to it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...q#post14239605

Hope this helps.
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post #89 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 09:09 AM
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HDMI_13 - it does indeed help, and thanks. After having listened to your 1909 for a while, how do you think your bass sounds? With MultEQ, does it sound/feel noticeably different than before?
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post #90 of 11388 Old 07-23-2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan TN View Post

It appears to me from reading this thread and the manual that if you connected a bluray player such as the Panasonic BD50 using the HDMI cable you would have to use the BD50 to upscale the SD 480i to 1080p rather than using the upscaler in the 1909.

If that is true the upscaler in the 1909 is pretty much irrelevant for improving the appearance of standard dvd's. Am I missing something?

totally, take it as nonexistent

Blu-Ray Supporter
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