*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 11381 Old 08-18-2008, 11:48 PM
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Definitely no sparkle issue. Do not know about BTB or WTW.

DaveG
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post #902 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 12:02 AM
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I thought I remembered someone commenting on this issue. Then I did a google search for "denon 1909 btb" and the first link is an avs link where the poster states that he/she has a 1909 (but will return it for a 2309 when it is released), and confirms that it does pass btb using DVE.

I think the post was lost when the servers crashed.
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post #903 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 02:24 AM
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hmmm Could anyone with a 1909 and a DVE do the test again for us "almost going to buy this Reciever" lol This is all thats holding me back, once i know it does both BTB and WTW ill buy the reciever, I heard that denons older recievers all did this. No clipping, but who knows with new recievers if they put new features in but take specs out to compensate
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post #904 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogdoctor View Post

Bend a little more wire over and try to not make it perfect. The ones I made perfectly flush had a little wiggle. Once I went back and made the wires a little unperfectly folded and screwed the banana tip all the way in, snug as can be expected. Plugging them in was the easiest wire hook up I've ever done.


So when you bend the wire over, did it reach the threading? I thought according the instructions on monoprice you are not supposed to touch the threading of the plug when you bend the wire over?
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post #905 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogdoctor View Post

Bend a little more wire over and try to not make it perfect. The ones I made perfectly flush had a little wiggle. Once I went back and made the wires a little unperfectly folded and screwed the banana tip all the way in, snug as can be expected. Plugging them in was the easiest wire hook up I've ever done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphy4040 View Post

Along with the other suggestions on things to check, you might just try a sound meter to see how it measures the output in your particular space. It may well be the shape or layout of your room: openings to another room, a vaulted ceiling, furnishings on one side of the room, size of room, etc. 4-5 is a pretty significant, but you might want to at least check to see if it's environmental. In any case, a sound meter is definitely worth having.


Well, it was definetely environmental. I pulled the speakers out into the middle of the room, about 6 ft apart and put the microphone in the middle. After running the auto setup the difference between FL and FR was 0.5 DB. Thanks for the help on this guys.
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post #906 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtsteevo View Post

So when you bend the wire over, did it reach the threading? I thought according the instructions on monoprice you are not supposed to touch the threading of the plug when you bend the wire over?

Hey guys: talking about Monoprice how do their speaker wires compare to those of Monster cable and Audioquest in terms of quality and reliability? I usually want my cables to be optimally solid without being overpriced. Are there any others to suggest other than these three?

This is slightly off-topic, but I did not want to open a whole new thread for "speaker wires"... I believe it will take just a couple of posts to address this issue, anyway. Thanks for your input and understanding.
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post #907 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btdvox View Post

I asked this about 10 pages ago but no one really gave me a concrete answer.

Has Anyone WITH a 1909 confrim that it has BTB/WTW ? and no Sparkle on the HDMI that some crummier recievers have.
Thanks

the manual states that it does the wide color range, is this to what your referring?
Page 32 of manual
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post #908 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scape View Post

the manual states that it does the wide color range, is this to what your referring?
Page 32 of manual

you should check the manual, but i believe in the setup there was an option to select full or restricted range
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post #909 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtsteevo View Post

So when you bend the wire over, did it reach the threading? I thought according the instructions on monoprice you are not supposed to touch the threading of the plug when you bend the wire over?

Yeah, 1 or two strands, maybe. Come right up to the edge of of the threads and you should be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btdvox View Post

Has Anyone WITH a 1909 confrim that it has BTB/WTW ? and no Sparkle on the HDMI that some crummier recievers have.

In the set up for HDMI it has setting for YCbCr and RGB (normal or enhanced). On mine there appears to be no clipping but I can't say for sure 100% as it is the only video playing device that I have connected through it (straight pass through). I don't have any DVD player connected via component. As for sparkle. No sparkle, but I thought that was a function of crummy HDMI cables, not the receiver.


So I played around again last night with some heavy base sequences. The opening sequence of Top Gun, and the Battle of the Pelennor Fields from LOTR. Damn does this receiver make the sub sound good. I played around with dynamic volume. I think I'm not going to use it on Movies. The whole point is hear all the effects right. Evening, and Midnight especially, were just a little too muted for my taste. And the daytime setting had such little adjustment on the volume so in essence I figured why use it. Now when applying dynamic volume to a TV signal, that's where it shines at reducing commercial noise. Evening mode seems to be the happy middle ground.

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post #910 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 10:25 AM
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Does anyone know if there's a "hidden menu" or someting on the 1909 to adjust contract, sharpness, brightness, etc. I've noticed that the 1909 is crushing blacks through HDMI whereas the 988 offers a pristine picture of the same image.

Thanks!
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post #911 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 10:25 AM
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been reading thru and thinking about this unit or the yam 863
will the 1909 upconvert my 1080i anaolg/component to 1080p hdmi ?
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post #912 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlp336 View Post

been reading thru and thinking about this unit or the yam 863
will the 1909 upconvert my 1080i anaolg/component to 1080p hdmi ?

I don't think so, I think the only scaling offered is on 480i/p analog -> HDMI, but I don't know for sure. It explicitly states in the manual that it will not do 720p->1080i or 1080i->720p, but I'm inferring from that annotation that it won't touch 720p/1080i signals. I'm pretty sure it will go 1080i in ->1080i out, but somebody with the 1909 should confirm.

Either way, you don't want it to -- the Faroudja video chip in the 1909 was never designed for HD processing and it will do a terrible job of 1080i -> 1080p deinterlacing. Your TV likely does a much better job of this. Check out the reviews of the 3808ci video processing (same chip): http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/...at/index2.html

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post #913 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

Does anyone know if there's a "hidden menu" or someting on the 1909 to adjust contract, sharpness, brightness, etc. I've noticed that the 1909 is crushing blacks through HDMI whereas the 988 offers a pristine picture of the same image.

Thanks!

Party foul! Double post!

I don't think there are any such hidden menus, the 1909 shouldn't be touching digital video signals. Have you confirmed this with a test pattern?

Did you accidentally have one set to RGB "normal" and the other to RGB "enhanced"? Go into the HDMI options in setup and confirm that your 1909 and 988 are identical in the way they are set up, i.e. both should be "YCbCr" and "normal" for HDMI output.

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post #914 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat6man View Post

you should check the manual, but i believe in the setup there was an option to select full or restricted range

The normal vs. enhanced setting for RGB should be set to "normal" for most video sources. Then, it should do video levels and properly pass WTW/BTB. If you set it to "enhanced" then there is no BTB or WTW.

All my Denon AVR's have properly passed WTW/BTB. They have been making high-end DVD players for a long time and understand this issue, I don't think they'd start screwing it up now, but somebody should confirm with a test pattern.

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post #915 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Party foul! Double post!

I don't think there are any such hidden menus, the 1909 shouldn't be touching digital video signals. Have you confirmed this with a test pattern?

Did you accidentally have one set to RGB "normal" and the other to RGB "enhanced"? Go into the HDMI options in setup and confirm that your 1909 and 988 are identical in the way they are set up, i.e. both should be "YCbCr" and "normal" for HDMI output.

Sorry for the double post. I'll confirm this when I get home tonight. Thanks for the help!
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post #916 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 11:16 AM
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Got my 1909 up and running yesterday. I am very pleased. Great sound and a good scaler.
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post #917 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btdvox View Post

I asked this about 10 pages ago but no one really gave me a concrete answer.

Has Anyone WITH a 1909 confrim that it has BTB/WTW ? and no Sparkle on the HDMI that some crummier recievers have.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamos View Post

Definitely no sparkle issue. Do not know about BTB or WTW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skro View Post

I thought I remembered someone commenting on this issue. Then I did a google search for "denon 1909 btb" and the first link is an avs link where the poster states that he/she has a 1909 (but will return it for a 2309 when it is released), and confirms that it does pass btb using DVE.

I think the post was lost when the servers crashed.

It was me that had reported that this does indeed pass BTB/WTW using DVE. I have no sparklies using HDMI and my sound sounds loads better then the Yamaha 1800 I had that didn't pass BTB/WTW. The Denon really brings out the bass as some others have mentioned. I hope when I get my 2309 it doesn't have any problems out of the box and works just as good as the 1909 I'm using now does. Not saying it shouldn't but there are lemons in life.
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post #918 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 11:27 AM
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I just received a Denon AVR-1909 from a very reputable online retailer. Both the outside and inside boxes were in perfect shape, as was the styrofoam that the receiver itself is encased in. When I removed the receiver, the top right corner of the back panel was all bent in. It didn't look like it had been caused by any sort of mishandling, but rather that it had left the factory that way! Of course the retailer arranged for a return. They had no new ones to replace it with, but it worked out well anyway. My local Circuit City has the 789 in stock.
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post #919 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 11:31 AM
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I am new to the home theater stuff, so I do appreicate all the help I can get. What is the popping sound in the reciever everyone is talking about? Is it just when playback on BR? Is it the connection using HDMI?
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post #920 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 01:33 PM
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For those who might be interested, I put the 1909 through the HQV test today, and while it does a pretty good job on all the jaggies tests, it obviously has no noise reduction features, and doesn't support some of the more obscure cadences well. I don't think these things are major strikes against it necessarily, because although they would be nice, they aren't to be expected at this level. One major strike I found though was that it failed the superspeedway test. It took about half a second to switch into film mode, but then dropped out again a second later. To me, this is a major strike. The deinterlacing chip does a good job of reducing jaggies, but not necessarily anything else. My PS3 does a lot better on the HQV disc than the 1909. Hope that's helpful to anyone who was wondering.
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post #921 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 01:37 PM
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Purchased my 1909 a couple of weeks ago and finally putting some time in going through the different settings. Currently I have the cable box connected to the receiver then out to the tv (HDMI).

Reading through the manual I noticed that the 1909 can upconvert/scale component out to its HDMI output. My question is how is the upconversion of component 480i material (DVD's) to 720p, 1080i or 1080p? FYI, I have a Denon 1600. Thanks.
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post #922 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drrick View Post

For those who might be interested, I put the 1909 through the HQV test today, and while it does a pretty good job on all the jaggies tests, it obviously has no noise reduction features, and doesn't support some of the more obscure cadences well. I don't think these things are major strikes against it necessarily, because although they would be nice, they aren't to be expected at this level. One major strike I found though was that it failed the superspeedway test. It took about half a second to switch into film mode, but then dropped out again a second later. To me, this is a major strike. The deinterlacing chip does a good job of reducing jaggies, but not necessarily anything else. My PS3 does a lot better on the HQV disc than the 1909. Hope that's helpful to anyone who was wondering.

You could add the DVDO Edge video processor for a lot less than the cost of an AVR with a good chip though.
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post #923 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 03:14 PM
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I agree with you Gary, and I hope that at some point I may be able to do just that. I didn't expect a great deal from the Denon, and it did pretty much what I expected, although the film mode failure kind of surprised me.

pruizgarcia, I'm not familiar with the Denon 1600, but I would guess it will do a better job at deinterlacing than the 1909. My recommendation would be to try it with the receiver doing the processing and the player doing it (and even with the TV doing it) and see which gives you the best results. It will be easiest for you to figure out if you have a test disc like the HQV disc, but ultimately you just need to pick which looks best to you.
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post #924 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 07:11 PM
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Ok few points there are a few additional points I would like to make.

1. I want to reemphasize how impressive my cheap 12" power sub sounds. I've never been able to go out and buy top of the line stuff and nor can my family but I've been greatly pleased with my Cambridge Soundworks equipment and the BassCube12s has never sounded so good, even with my Harman.

2. As for cheap build quality. Ok I concede. The plastic front dash, the weight and feel, they just don't compare to Harman. But quite frankly, it's not like this thing is going to be running laps. It sits on a shelf, and provided I don't get an earthquake, it won't be moving anytime soon. Plus from a distance of 12 ft, I can't really see the dash any more than I did with the Harman. As such, it's a complete non factor for me, as long as it puts out good sound. I'm guessing if you want to get a more metallic build structure you'll have to look upward in the model lines.

3. Bass/Treble fine tuning....I'm no Audio wiz and when it comes to equalizers I just look and stare at the bar graph looking at the pretty patterns one can make. I haven't a clue as to what you can actually achieve with them. So I steered clear of it after the auto calibration and I went searching to tune solely the bass and treble on some inputs, but apparently on most if not all digital inputs this is not allowed. To do the tweaking, you apparently need to enter the manual settings of the machine that allows you to tweak the Dynamic EQ if you so choose. Since I previously stated I freeze like a deer in headlights at the sight of and EQ bar, I've decided that I will let the computer do the tuning.

4. LPCM sounds fabulous from the PS3. Tested out a few games, Resistance, Uncharted: Drakes Fortune (for those non gamers out there with a PS3 - rent this game, it has a wonderful story, beautiful graphics, great music score, and plays better than the last Indiana Jone's movie). On Battlefield: Bad Company I got some crackling from the surrounds. It's the only game to do so, so I suspect it a game related, not receiver related issue. I will play more with it later. Now I just need to get some great audio BR's to test out. That was the whole point of getting this receiver wasn't it.

Oh and for those interested: I'm running a monoprice 15' 24AWG from the PS3 to the receiver. A monoprice 10' 28AWG from the HR21-700 to the receiver. And to the TV a monoprice 10' 28AWG from the receiver. The longest run is 25' of HDMI without sparkle or issues.

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post #925 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogdoctor View Post

So I steered clear of it after the auto calibration and I went searching to tune solely the bass and treble on some inputs, but apparently on most if not all digital inputs this is not allowed. To do the tweaking, you apparently need to enter the manual settings of the machine that allows you to tweak the Dynamic EQ if you so choose. Since I previously stated I freeze like a deer in headlights at the sight of and EQ bar, I've decided that I will let the computer do the tuning.


Let me get this straight: Are you saying that once you have calibrated the room acoustics using the audissey room correction protocol, you cannot do any manual tweaking without voiding the auto-calibration? Not even the slightest manual tweak on the sub or bass? Also are you talking only about Dynamic EQ or the entire audissey triple enchilada?
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post #926 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 08:03 PM
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how this stack up to the 863 ? might bite the bullet tonight
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post #927 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 08:12 PM
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On page 5 of the Denon manual under '8' it say this is the Audyssey Multeq indicator. On page 49 it says this lights up when Multeq is selected (but is confusing since it looks like the outline of the box comes or goes). Anyway, the Audyssey multeq lights up but not any box around it.

On page 50 it tells about the green/red light coming on for 'dynamic volume' and 'dynamic eq'. It seems if I turn Multeq off this green light turns to red. When it's green, I still don't get the boxed Audyssey logo to light.

So, the question is, am I doing something wrong? I searched to no avail for the recent post of someone who said the box with the Audyssey insignia lit up but turned off when they changed a speaker level (I think it was a sub). I did change the volume level of the speakers but decided to rerun Audyssey to see if that made the 'box' light up...it didn't.
Any ideas?..and thanks for a reply.
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post #928 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocaje View Post

On page 5 of the Denon manual under '8' it say this is the Audyssey Multeq indicator. On page 49 it says this lights up when Multeq is selected (but is confusing since it looks like the outline of the box comes or goes). Anyway, the Audyssey multeq lights up but not any box around it.

It specifically says on pg. 49 right below what you read, that if after running the auto setup - you change the speaker config, the crossover freq., the distance, or channel level, then you will only get the Audessey MultEQ without the box. You would have to rerun the auto setup and not change a single thing to get the box (so the box just means that your using the Audessey MultEQ straight up without a change). Since you read the "Audessey" thread here, most people will have to change the sub LFP/LFE crossover to 120 from 80hz anyway, so most will only get the Audessey MultEQ without the box.

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post #929 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Let me get this straight: Are you saying that once you have calibrated the room acoustics using the audissey room correction protocol, you cannot do any manual tweaking without voiding the auto-calibration? Not even the slightest manual tweak on the sub or bass? Also are you talking only about Dynamic EQ or the entire audissey triple enchilada?

Ok I did some further digging and on pg. 50 of the manual. If you want to use Dynamic Volume, you must turn ON Dynamic EQ. But if you turn ON Dynamic EQ, you have Tone Control (bass and treble) and Night Mode switched OFF automatically for you. That explains why I cant find an input that allows Tone Control.

Thus if you wish to change the tonal quality for each speaker after the Audessey Mult EQ has been run, but you wish to use Dynamic EQ with Volume EQ, you will need to enter Manual EQ (pg. 34) and it appears that you can use then base curve from Audessey and proceed to tweak the speakers. Then back on pg.50 when it asks you for which MultEQ you want to use, you would select MANUAL.

Seems pretty hard to do for my taste. Thus, if you simply just want to tweak bass and treble, you will need to turn Dynamic EQ OFF.

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post #930 of 11381 Old 08-19-2008, 10:05 PM
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Ok...I must be blind is there a way to tune to say an AM radio station for Sports Radio. I can only get it to search FM stations. I must be missing something here.

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