*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 38 - AVS Forum
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post #1111 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogdoctor View Post

Don't be sorry just read more. It is explicitly stated in the PS3 manuals/faqs online on how to get the HD audio codecs (then compare that information to what the Receiver manual says the device will do with that signal). In short: You can't bitstream via optical - bandwidth is not there. You must use analog outs (PS3 doesn't have) or HDMI (does have) but it doesn't bistream them here either. You must use LPCM/PCM which means the decoding was done at the level of the PS3. If the decoding is done at the level of the reciever, then you get all the pretty lights and names. If the decoding is done elsewhere (same signal mind you), then all you see is MultiCh In. You get the same great sound, no flashy lights.

I have the latest PS3 firmware and i have set my PS3 to Linear. I still don;t see MultiCH In anywhere on the display. The only thing i see on the display is DIG, HDMI auto, and AudysseyEQ. I even tried to set it to bitstream to let the reciever do the decoding and i saw nothing diffrerent!

What am i doing wrong?
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post #1112 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 02:14 PM
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I gather then that this receiver has no disadvantages then?

As far as I know, it has been bug free and worked as advertised for everyone. Denon seems to get it right.

The only disadvantages are missing functionality/features reserved for higher-end models, like pre-outs. But in terms of what is is supposed to have and do, it works correctly and apparently sounds great.

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post #1113 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQFireGuy View Post

I have the latest PS3 firmware and i have set my PS3 to Linear. I still don;t see MultiCH In anywhere on the display. The only thing i see on the display is DIG, HDMI auto, and AudysseyEQ. I even tried to set it to bitstream to let the reciever do the decoding and i saw nothing diffrerent!

What am i doing wrong?

Receiver:
1. connect HDMI out of PS3 to Receiver in.
2. set the AVR to that input.
3. make sure the HDMI audio is set to AMP (default is this way).

PS3
1. set audio out (general overall audio) to HDMI and select all that apply.
2. in the menu on the BR movie itself, check to see that HD audio is allowed and if not already selected. For what ever reason on my POTC:CoBP I have to always go select LPCM 5.1 (it will default to DD 5.1)
3. Play movie (hit select on game controller to see the HD audio codec is playing in the right upper corner of the screen. That is what is being sent PCM-wise to the AVR)
4. Check the AVR, it should say MultiCh In.

PSN ID: dogdoctor
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post #1114 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogdoctor View Post

Receiver:
1. connect HDMI out of PS3 to Receiver in.
2. set the AVR to that input.
3. make sure the HDMI audio is set to AMP (default is this way).

PS3
1. set audio out (general overall audio) to HDMI and select all that apply.
2. in the menu on the BR movie itself, check to see that HD audio is allowed and if not already selected. For what ever reason on my POTC:CoBP I have to always go select LPCM 5.1 (it will default to DD 5.1)
3. Play movie (hit select on game controller to see the HD audio codec is playing in the right upper corner of the screen. That is what is being sent PCM-wise to the AVR)
4. Check the AVR, it should say MultiCh In.


I checked everything and when i hit select on the PS3 it says Linear PCM 7.1 but the display on the reciever says Nothing! I don't know what else to try?
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post #1115 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQFireGuy View Post

I checked everything and when i hit select on the PS3 it says Linear PCM 7.1 but the display on the reciever says Nothing! I don't know what else to try?

Your receiver will not say anything but multichannel. The decoding is being done in the PS3 and the receiver will not show Dolby Digital, True HD etc. You are getting it though, you just don't get the joy of seeing an indicator on the receiver light up. All this audio stuff is very confusing to be sure. Even people at stores are confused about it. To get the Dolby True HD to light up on the receiver you have to send BITSTREAM to it (as I can do on my Panny BD-30), and the PS3 is not capable of this. The PS3 decodes internally and sends already decoded sound the receiver, and hence the receiver does not need to decode for you, nor will it show you what type of sound is being used. I hope this helps.
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post #1116 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 03:45 PM
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This may be a dumb question, but I've found the folks on this forum rather forgiving (as long as you've first searched for an answer ;-).

"EXT. IN Subwoofer Level", is described as "Set the subwoofer level for playback". The recommendation is to set it at +15db. I'm assuming that has nothing to do with the bump in bass many people, including me, are experiencing after running Audyssey as it apparently only applies to analog inputs from a device with multichannel outputs. Is that correct? I have only HDMI and a couple of two channel analog inputs. Thanks.

dave
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post #1117 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 04:20 PM
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You are correct, this is only to deal with LFE issues when using the multichannel analog inputs, since the receiver can not do any processing and/or bass management on the analog inputs.

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post #1118 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

As far as I know, it has been bug free and worked as advertised for everyone. Denon seems to get it right.

The only disadvantages are missing functionality/features reserved for higher-end models, like pre-outs. But in terms of what is is supposed to have and do, it works correctly and apparently sounds great.

Yeah that's the general consensus after reading this thread and that's great news! I'm ordering mine tomorrow.

Still, Id like to know what features is the 1909 missing that higher end models have, and you wished the 1909 had? Whats pre-outs?
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post #1119 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 04:33 PM
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Some examples of features you get by stepping up to higher models (not necessarily ones that I wish I had, just stating facts):

1. pre-outs (this are outputs that allow you to connect a more powerful, external amp to the receiver and use the receiver as a preamp/processor only)
2. more HDMI inputs
3. more inputs in general
4. more outputs (i.e. multiple digital outs for recording, multiple component monitor outputs)
5. better processing (like higher end Audyssey MultEQ XT)
6. more power, better DAC's
7. better multi-zone support (i.e. 280x has 3-zone/3-source support, and a video output for zone 2)
8. network functionality for streaming music from your home computer

those are just a few... if you think "so what?" to most of these then you are probably fine with the 1909, not many people will actually use all the higher-end features...

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post #1120 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 04:35 PM
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i want to measure my sub response with REW. anyone know how to turn off the speakers (not sub) in the 1909?
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post #1121 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 04:56 PM
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unplug them!

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post #1122 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

On a related note, while looking at the 1909 manual right now, page 34, I see in the "EQ PRESET" menu under AUDIO SETUP that there is an option to tell the Denon that certain EQ curves will not be used.

Since I don't have a xx09 Denon to test with and translate the manual to English, can someone test out and confirm what this setting does?

It appears that you can tell Denon that, for example, you don't ever want to use the "FLAT" EQ curve... in which case, if you set "FLAT" to "Not Used" in this menu... and then when you hit the "ROOM EQ" button on the remote while listening to music/tv/whatever, it will skip over the FLAT curve while cycling through the options.

Does it actually work as I am speculating above? If so, that might make people's lives easier because you can disable the ones you never use and make it simpler to cycle through the EQ presets from the remote (i.e. you can whittle the list down from 5 curves to 2 or 3 that you actually use).

I don't know if anyone answered this batpig...but I can confirm that it does work like you speculated. You can bypass the flat, byp. L/R, and manual EQ curves.

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post #1123 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBuck View Post

Your receiver will not say anything but multichannel. The decoding is being done in the PS3 and the receiver will not show Dolby Digital, True HD etc. You are getting it though, you just don't get the joy of seeing an indicator on the receiver light up. All this audio stuff is very confusing to be sure. Even people at stores are confused about it. To get the Dolby True HD to light up on the receiver you have to send BITSTREAM to it (as I can do on my Panny BD-30), and the PS3 is not capable of this. The PS3 decodes internally and sends already decoded sound the receiver, and hence the receiver does not need to decode for you, nor will it show you what type of sound is being used. I hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply i understand i won't see Dolby or anything like that because the PS3 is doing the decoding but I don't even see the MultiIn light at either.
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post #1124 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQFireGuy View Post

Thanks for the reply i understand i won't see Dolby or anything like that because the PS3 is doing the decoding but I don't even see the MultiIn light at either.

Your are not seeing MULTI CH IN displaying in big letters on the front window?

Did you go into the BD/DVD tab under settings on the ps3 and check to make sure it says BD/DVD audio output format= Linear pcm

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post #1125 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 06:19 PM
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Ok, newbie here...i did some quick reading in this thread and in the manual, and have one question. I can not get my video to work for my xbox using component, sound is fine. i'm currently hooked up through HDP (component 2) i believe. I assigned the video to rca-2...plus i've tried the others as well, never can get a picture. Any ideas?

Also, with Dynamic Volume, i've noticed commericals don't stay the same level of sound, they are just quieter than whatever i'm watching, which is fine as they always used to blow my speakers out with my old reciever....is that normal? Other than that, everythign good

Basic Setup
Sony 46" (hdmi)
AVR-1909
Direct Tv HD DVR (hdmi)
wii
xbox 360 (component) ****video not working, sound fine
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post #1126 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 06:39 PM
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I'm assuming that you are connected to your TV with one HDMI cable from the receiver. If so, you need to make sure that you have the analog to HDMI conversion feature turned on in the receiver (I think it is on by default, but I could be wrong). I'd check that first to make sure that everything is configured correctly.

As for commercials with DV, I haven't noticed that, although almost everything I watch anymore is DVRed, and I notice that when I skip through commercials it takes a second for the volume to ramp back up to normal--I assume because there is silence and it compensates so that you don't get blown out of the water when the sound comes back on. In any event, I think that having the commercials softer than the program would be a great feature
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post #1127 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 07:18 PM
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How hot does this receiver get? Do you think it would be safe to place in a closed cabinet? Thanks!
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post #1128 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmerica View Post

How hot does this receiver get? Do you think it would be safe to place in a closed cabinet? Thanks!

This receiver does not get hot (like those Onkyo's). It is warm. However you have to keep adequate clearance for the air to flow.

What size is your cabinet? (Where the receiver will sit)
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post #1129 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post

This receiver does not get hot (like those Onkyo's). It is warm. However you have to keep adequate clearance for the air to flow.

What size is your cabinet? (Where the receiver will sit)

Thanks for the reply. The cabinet is about 14.5 inches in height so hopefully that will allow for adequate clearance above. 27 inches wide. 22 inches deep.
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post #1130 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post

Your are not seeing MULTI CH IN displaying in big letters on the front window?

Did you go into the BD/DVD tab under settings on the ps3 and check to make sure it says BD/DVD audio output format= Linear pcm

Yep not seeing MultiIn anywhere and I've set the BD/DVD setting to Linear PCM and also tried to Bitstream to try and get the reciever to decode and i got nothing also!

this sucks, what else can i do?
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post #1131 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQFireGuy View Post

Yep not seeing MultiIn anywhere and I've set the BD/DVD setting to Linear PCM and also tried to Bitstream to try and get the reciever to decode and i got nothing also!

this sucks, what else can i do?

Do not take offense ..but are you using a uncompressed B/D? What B/D are you using to test for uncompressed sound?

What does it say when you set it on bitstream? Dolby surround?

Edit: It should still say Multi CH IN..even if set to bitstream.

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post #1132 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post

Do not take offense ..but are you using a uncompressed B/D? What B/D are you using to test for uncompressed sound?

What does it say when you set it on bitstream? Dolby surround?

Edit: It should still say Multi CH IN..even if set to bitstream.



I've tried "Crank" and "Black Hawk DOwn" both uncompressed formats and got nothing. The menu screen when playing says LCM but the reciever says nothing. Which is really strange! It also says nothing when set to bitstream on the Denon display
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post #1133 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 09:08 PM
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When you change source select using the knob on the 1909..does it toggle..DVD...TUNER..TVCBL..etc? It should be showing at least DVD.

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post #1134 of 11338 Old 08-26-2008, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQFireGuy View Post

I have the latest PS3 firmware and i have set my PS3 to Linear. I still don;t see MultiCH In anywhere on the display. The only thing i see on the display is DIG, HDMI auto, and AudysseyEQ. I even tried to set it to bitstream to let the reciever do the decoding and i saw nothing diffrerent!

What am i doing wrong?

This quote baffles me..you are not seeing a source on the display? It does not say DVD..TUNER..etc

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post #1135 of 11338 Old 08-27-2008, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmerica View Post

How hot does this receiver get? Do you think it would be safe to place in a closed cabinet? Thanks!

I posted this information much earlier in the thread, but here it is again.

I used a digital thermometer to check the running temperature of the 1909. After running the 1909 at -18dB for about 2 hours, the temperature varied between 104 F and 106 F. The ambient room temperature was 78F, so the temperature rise was 26F – 28F. By way of comparison, the temperature rise of the Onkyo 606 I had (and subsequently returned) was 52F.

My 1909 is in an open cabinet, with 8" clearance on the sides and 5" clearance on the top and back. Given the fairly low temperature rise of the 1909, it seems safe enough to put it in a closed cabinet, as long as there is reasonable clearance.

Power Consumption

I also measured the power consumption of the 1909 using a Kill-A-Watt meter.
• Standby, HDMI Control OFF: 0 watts (Denon specs say 0.3 watts)
• Standby, HDMI Control ON: 30 watts
• ON, volume = -40 dB: 69 watts
• ON, volume = -20 dB: 72 watts
• ON, volume = -10 dB: 83 watts
• ON, volume = 0.0 dB: 110 watts
I have a 5.1 setup, with 8 ohm speakers and a powered SW.

With the 1909 ON, the power consumption varies quite a bit at each volume level, depending on the input source and the material. The readings I listed are roughly the maximum I saw at each level. I didn't see any significant difference in the power consumption with Dynamic EQ/Vol On or Off.

As I suspected, turning HDMI Control to ON does draw some power, but not very much, only 30 watts. Before I made the measurements, I was thinking that there might be an economic incentive to leave HDMI Control OFF. There is, but not very much. In a full month of 24/7 operation, leaving the HDMI Control ON would consume about 22 KWH. At $0.12/KWH, that works out to $2.68/month. If you're off the grid and counting every KWH, you might not want to enable HDMI Control. For everyone else, it's a question of whether the convenience of HDMI Control is worth $2.68/month +/-.
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post #1136 of 11338 Old 08-27-2008, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmerica View Post

Thanks for the reply. The cabinet is about 14.5 inches in height so hopefully that will allow for adequate clearance above. 27 inches wide. 22 inches deep.

You should be fine. This receiver runs much cooler than the Onkyo 606 I just tried and returned.
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post #1137 of 11338 Old 08-27-2008, 05:47 AM
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Yesterday I was playing with my new Denon 789 and was not blown away by the sound on movies. They sounded rather flat and lacked 'punch'. I was mystified why the buzzing Onkyo 606 sounded so much better. I finally discovered that I had somehow engaged Dynamic Volume. The button that does that is not just on and off, it toggles though mutiple combinations of Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ being on or off. So you have to watch the screen on the receiver carefully when using that button to see what is really enabled and disabled. After I turned Dynamic Volume off I had a big smile on my face. Dynamic Volume would be useful if you don't want to disturb others, but it is best left off if you want really great sound and dynamic range. If anyone else is less than thrilled with the sound from your Denon, be sure and check out these settings carefully.
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post #1138 of 11338 Old 08-27-2008, 06:14 AM
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Page 64 of the manual says under 'Backup Memory': "The various settings are backed up for about 1 week, even if the power is turned off or the power cord is disconnected."

Questions:
1. What does 'even' if the power is turned off' mean? Does that refer to pushing the small button shown on the manual's Front Panel page 7 and called Power Switch and labeled On/Off
or does it refer to the larger buton to the left called Power Operation Button labeled On/Standby?
I'm confused on what these buttons do/and/or interact with each other.

2. If left unplugged for a week or more, does this mean I would have to rerun Audyssey?

Thanks for any response.
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post #1139 of 11338 Old 08-27-2008, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQFireGuy View Post

I've tried "Crank" and "Black Hawk DOwn" both uncompressed formats and got nothing. The menu screen when playing says LCM but the reciever says nothing. Which is really strange! It also says nothing when set to bitstream on the Denon display

Why don't you go into the menu of your receiver and check to make sure that the front panel display is not set to "Off". There are different levels of dimming and an option for off, which would prevent you from seeing anything on the screen at all. That could explain why you don't see Mult Ch In or Dolby Digital on the front panel. That's the only way I could think of that you wouldn't see anything on the screen, other than a malfunctioning receiver.
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post #1140 of 11338 Old 08-27-2008, 06:39 AM
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After reading this whole thread until the wee hours of the morning, I went out yesterday planning to buy a Denon 1909/789 to replace my fried NAD receiver, and came home instead with a Pioneer Elite VSX-91THX for about the same price.

It has the 7.1/5.1+2ch I wanted (I run 5.1 and wanted to run my patio speakers independently w/o another amp), auto calibration, and a "midnight listening" mode that is comparable (I think) to the Denon Day/Evening/Night modes. Those are the three features that drew me to the 1909 - once I found the Elite had those comparable features, the Elite seemed to just be of higher quality overall (from a completely non-technical viewpoint). It has limited HDMI inputs and video processing, but I don't use that anyway. I was looking primarily for audio.

I can't believe I'm going to ask this, as I don't really want to know if I've made a huge mistake , but whaddya all think?
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Denon Avr 789 630 Watt 7 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver

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