*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 383 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11461 of 11481 Old 11-27-2015, 12:34 AM
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Hi friends. Before I try this I thought I would ask. Recently got back into vinyl and have collected quite a few SQ Quad albums. I still have a Radio Shack quad decoder from back in the day. I have read in some of the quad forums that it is possible to create a decoder loop using the Multi-channel inputs? I have my pre-amps connected to the front panel V.Aux input (common cable that I switch from my Pro-Ject Tube Box S and my Audioengine D1. I also have a ADC that I use to feed the D1 since it has no analog inputs-only USB and Toslink digital. That used to be the default until I got my Bravo Audi V3 tube headphone amp, now I have to switch the cable back and forth). So can I take the tape loop out (if this guy has one) and feed it into the decoder 2-channel input and then feed it's 4-channel output into the multi-channel ins? Seems I could then set the input mode to Ext.In? However that's going to cut off the analog in of V.aux? I don't want to bother hooking everything up if it isn't going to work. I know some AVRs have processing loops in them just for this purpose. Anyhow, if I did get it to work my bet is that Audessey won't be active (for MultiEQ or Dynamic Volume) and I will be relegated to only the speakers of the 4-channels input. As I recall there is no processing of the EXT.in multi-channel input?

I'm getting some satisfying results with DD PLIIx cinema and some odd results with music mode. First material I have actually been able to hear a difference between DD PLII and DTS NEO:6 (both cinema and music sub modes). Some recordings sound better with variations of those. Also get some interesting effects with DSP Matrix mode. I only have SQ recordings at the moment. My understanding is the QS recordings are almost spot on with the decoding but that with SQ it is only an approximation due to differences in the encoding and decoding.

Listening to I'd Love to Change the World by Ten Years After and there is defiantly a multi-channel effect, but I don't know if it is decoding as the producers intended. It's for sure more of an effect than you get with normal non-encoded 2-channel recordings run through DD PLII.

Thanks for reading and any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm attempting to recreate the quad sound experience that I was able to create in my youth with a couple integrated amps and a couple sets of speakers. I remember listening to Switched on Bach back in the day and it was really spacey. I've seen plenty of copies of the stereo version in the used shops, but have yet to find a quad one. If I remember right most of the remasters of the Floyd albums are encoded for quad and if I remember right updated for decoding with DD PLII. And I think the big expensive box sets I have that they have released so far also include quad mixes on the DVD/BD? So maybe I should just download the rips of those? I am guessing that stereo rips/dubs of the original LPs exist out there somewhere?
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post #11462 of 11481 Old 12-05-2015, 05:46 AM
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Sound Drop Out

When playing CD music or watching Netflix through my Sony BDP3500 to AVR-789, I've just recently begun to get brief, intermittent sound drop outs. These last for 1-2 seconds. On Netflix, the sound may drop out and the picture freeze, or the sound drops out and the picture goes dark during the drop out. The programming in each case resumes with a gap, i.e., at the correct place in time.

So, these two source types (disc and wireless internet) through my BluRay player are both using HDMI input to my AVR-789. Do I have a firmware incompatibility or an HDMI board issue in my 789?

Here are things that I can do...

1) swap to another HDMI input on the back of the AVR (to isolate whether a particular input is an issue)
2) sway to another BluRay player of same model/brand (to isolate whether it's a Sony problem)

Are there any others? Is there a work around? Or am I destined to send this unit back to the Denon service center for repair? Thanks for any insight that you may offer. Phil G.
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post #11463 of 11481 Old 12-12-2015, 08:56 AM
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I am having an issue with my 789. My left front speaker audio level drops very noticeably when turned on, then I give the receiver a tap with my hand and then the audio to that speaker goes back to normal.
Do you think one of the components is possibly bad (or poorly soldered), or is dust causing some interference?
Thank you.
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post #11464 of 11481 Old 12-26-2015, 09:52 AM
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Yes, I'm back.

Last year I had all sorts of problems with my 789. You folks were great. I sat for hours on end working on that thing, tried so many different combinations that once I fixed it, I had no idea as to HOW I fixed it. Flash forward to Christmas Day. Home after doing morning visits, turn on the Home theater with the Harmony, video comes through but the audio kept on turning on and off and then just off. Sat in front of it and it was flashing back and forth (H/P?)

You may remember I was less than pleased with the events of last year so I might be looking for a replacement. Someone mentioned that the new Denon's have a much nicer, user friendly GUI. I may indeed go with another.

I've also read that the new ones with 7.1 are easy to set up however if you run a 5.1, they can be a bit of a challenge.

Any suggestions on a replacement? Be it Denon or not. The purpose of the unit is 95% home theater. For music the house is covered with Sonos.

Also, considering the past, I think I want pass through. If I understand it correctly, even if my future AV screws up, if the unit is off, the signal will pass through the AV directly to the 4k Vizio. Hence even with a problem, I still get signal. Correct? Is up converting to 4k something I care about? The Vizio M70 supposedly does this onboard I assume an AV that does this is redundant.



Meanwhile, I'm going to unplug it and start the re-set process through I am not hopeful.

Best regards and Merry Christmas to all.

Last edited by RickOL; 12-26-2015 at 10:00 AM.
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post #11465 of 11481 Old 12-26-2015, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickOL View Post
Last year I had all sorts of problems with my 789. You folks were great. I sat for hours on end working on that thing, tried so many different combinations that once I fixed it, I had no idea as to HOW I fixed it. Flash forward to Christmas Day. Home after doing morning visits, turn on the Home theater with the Harmony, video comes through but the audio kept on turning on and off and then just off. Sat in front of it and it was flashing back and forth (H/P?)

You may remember I was less than pleased with the events of last year so I might be looking for a replacement. Someone mentioned that the new Denon's have a much nicer, user friendly GUI. I may indeed go with another.

I've also read that the new ones with 7.1 are easy to set up however if you run a 5.1, they can be a bit of a challenge.

Any suggestions on a replacement? Be it Denon or not. The purpose of the unit is 95% home theater. For music the house is covered with Sonos.

Also, considering the past, I think I want pass through. If I understand it correctly, even if my future AV screws up, if the unit is off, the signal will pass through the AV directly to the 4k Vizio. Hence even with a problem, I still get signal. Correct?

Meanwhile, I'm going to unplug it and start the re-set process through I am not hopeful.

Best regards and Merry Christmas to all.

This is a known problem with these older models .... dust gets on the "Headphone" contacts ... the AVR thinks a headphone plug is inserted so shuts off the main zone speakers. To resolve the issue either insert/remove a headphone plug a few times or take a golf tee and do the same thing into the headphone jack.
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post #11466 of 11481 Old 12-26-2015, 10:07 AM
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Will try it. I did indeed read that but I had thought it was attributed to those who use head phones. I've never used the plug so I didn't think that applied.

Thanks for the quick reply and maybe saving me some money for a replacement. Of course this happened after spending money on everyone else for Christmas. (sigh) LOL.
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post #11467 of 11481 Old 12-26-2015, 10:11 AM
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No headphone jacks anyplace in the house and I don't play golf. Would a Q-Tip soaked in rubbing alcohol do the trick? I'm thinking yes.
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post #11468 of 11481 Old 12-26-2015, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
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Will try it. I did indeed read that but I had thought it was attributed to those who use head phones. I've never used the plug so I didn't think that applied.

Thanks for the quick reply and maybe saving me some money for a replacement. Of course this happened after spending money on everyone else for Christmas. (sigh) LOL.
Actually more likely to occur to those who don't use a headphone.

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No headphone jacks anyplace in the house and I don't play golf. Would a Q-Tip soaked in rubbing alcohol do the trick? I'm thinking yes.
No need to soak it in alcohol, it should work, although might want to cut the tip off first.
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post #11469 of 11481 Old 12-26-2015, 10:17 AM
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No headphone jacks anyplace in the house and I don't play golf. Would a Q-Tip soaked in rubbing alcohol do the trick? I'm thinking yes.

Hi RickOL, blow through a drinking straw
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post #11470 of 11481 Old 12-26-2015, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickOL View Post
Last year I had all sorts of problems with my 789. You folks were great. I sat for hours on end working on that thing, tried so many different combinations that once I fixed it, I had no idea as to HOW I fixed it. Flash forward to Christmas Day. Home after doing morning visits, turn on the Home theater with the Harmony, video comes through but the audio kept on turning on and off and then just off. Sat in front of it and it was flashing back and forth (H/P?)

You may remember I was less than pleased with the events of last year so I might be looking for a replacement. Someone mentioned that the new Denon's have a much nicer, user friendly GUI. I may indeed go with another.

I've also read that the new ones with 7.1 are easy to set up however if you run a 5.1, they can be a bit of a challenge.

Any suggestions on a replacement? Be it Denon or not. The purpose of the unit is 95% home theater. For music the house is covered with Sonos.

Also, considering the past, I think I want pass through. If I understand it correctly, even if my future AV screws up, if the unit is off, the signal will pass through the AV directly to the 4k Vizio. Hence even with a problem, I still get signal. Correct? Is up converting to 4k something I care about? The Vizio M70 supposedly does this onboard I assume an AV that does this is redundant.



Meanwhile, I'm going to unplug it and start the re-set process through I am not hopeful.

Best regards and Merry Christmas to all.
Last time if didn't just mess with it and got it to work and actually blew in air or ran a jack through it your contacts might be corroded. If so just use a little electronic contact or tuner cleaner. If it was me I would probably just spray a little in the jack and on a plug and run it through a few times. To be safe you probably need to put it on a swab and clean inside the jack and put a little on a plug. There are many brands of this stuff. I have a very old an of Radio Shack tuner cleaner that I use for these tasks but have no idea if they still sell it. For something like this it doesn't matter if it has lube in it or not, but beware if you are cleaning analog pots make sure it is high quality and has decent lube. No lube will mess up olden analog pots and tuners but is great for any other type of electrical contact cleaning task including using this on interconnects (if not gold) and speaker connections etc.

Likely you just have some dust bunnies in there that need to be blown out. The straw trick mentioned works well (just use the smallest diameter straw you can find). If you don't want to get light headed doing it just use a can of compressed air. Thankfully mine has never done this, but I do run headphones on it every once in a while so that might be why. Also our house is dusty, not so much in the basement/man cave, but the dust does not seem to get into the jacks.

Here is an example. I see this brand at Wallymart quite often (own several of their canned lubes) but don't recall seeing the contact cleaner. The can I have should last me the rest of my life as long as the propellant stays in tact.

http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05101-QD-E...ronics+cleaner
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post #11471 of 11481 Old 12-26-2015, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickOL View Post
Also, considering the past, I think I want pass through. If I understand it correctly, even if my future AV screws up, if the unit is off, the signal will pass through the AV directly to the 4k Vizio. Hence even with a problem, I still get signal. Correct? Is up converting to 4k something I care about? The Vizio M70 supposedly does this onboard I assume an AV that does this is redundant.

Best regards and Merry Christmas to all.
Yes you want pass-thru and the 789/1909 supports this. You have to turn on the "feature" in the HDMI section. I used to use this back in our old house where the HT was more accessible so the fam did not have to run the AVR for TV. Since moving I'm the only one that uses it so I turned it off since the AVR will use some power (30-40 watts if I remember right) to keep the HDMI section energized. Now I wouldn't care since I have solar, but I no longer need the feature. I watch and listen to everything in 7.1 unless it is a mono source of course.

I would think you would want 4k upscaling in your AVR? I would be suspect as to how good a job that a Visio or TV for that matter could do. Course I haven't ventured into 4k (or 3D for that matter). Of course when one of the TVs wear out they will be upgraded to 4k. Still have 720p plasma in the great room and 1080p rear projection DLP in the 'cave'. TO my eyes 720p looks pretty decent and haven't seen a major difference in anything above that. I suppose if you sat really close to the screen or had a super giant one it would make a difference. I'm more of an audiophile that a videophile anyway so I care more about the SQ than the PQ. As long is it is clear and you can see what is going on without snow, static, pixles, etc. I'm generally happy. Amazed that my 1909 purchased in the Spring of '09 as a store display model (for just over 200 clams) has served me for so long. I still have my 486 (it's running a 4.1 analog audio only system in my office at work) but it only lasted me a couple of years before I had to upgrade it due to no HDMI. I think I paid $150(or $100) for it (also a store display model).
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post #11472 of 11481 Old 12-28-2015, 02:00 PM
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Update and an overall thanks again guys.

First of all, haven't had a chance to work on this considering the frantic holiday commitments. Half hour ago I grabbed my nail gun compressor. Put a blow attachment on it and gave the headphone jack a good 30psi.

Note: I should say that there was no way in the world that I was going to let my wife catch me lying on the floor blowing in to the Denon with a straw. (Then again, it WOULD have been a good story)

Reconnected everything and was happy. Wife declares: TaDa!!! UNTIL I realized that during this episode I turned the TV speakers "ON". Ahhh boy. Go in to menus, turn the TV speakers off, go to my Harmony and turn up the volume on the 789 - instant response all 5.1 are running.

Once again my hat is off to you folks. If ever in Southern New Hampshire, drinks are on me. You folks ROCK.
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post #11473 of 11481 Old 01-17-2016, 07:45 PM
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Quiet RF channel when anything other than DIRECT audio

My right front channel is quiet/attenuated* whenever an audio mode besides DIRECT is used. I have normal volumes from every other channel at all times, but I can only have normal LF/RF volumes when I use the AM/FM TUNER or V.AUX inputs along with DIRECT. The quiet audio also happens during Audyssey calibration.

What I've tried and the results:
  1. Switching speakers/cables = muted RF continues
  2. Amp assign = muted RF
  3. A or B amp = muted RF
  4. Audyssey calibration = muted RF during calibration tones
  5. Boosting RF levels manually (on A/B) = almost balanced the levels, sound was "hollow", but the speaker clipped during loud scenes (ie. no way I'm trying that again!)
  6. Microprocessor reset (x3) = muted RF
  7. HDMI audio + direct = muted RF in all modes, even DIRECT
  8. Routing audio through EXT.IN = muted RF in all modes, even DIRECT

*I'd estimate the attenuation is between 24db and 30dB, but I haven't measured.

I'm willing to try just about anything at this point...
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post #11474 of 11481 Old 01-17-2016, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrawkcab3 View Post
My right front channel is quiet/attenuated* whenever an audio mode besides DIRECT is used. I have normal volumes from every other channel at all times, but I can only have normal LF/RF volumes when I use the AM/FM TUNER or V.AUX inputs along with DIRECT. The quiet audio also happens during Audyssey calibration.

What I've tried and the results:
  1. Switching speakers/cables = muted RF continues
  2. Amp assign = muted RF
  3. A or B amp = muted RF
  4. Audyssey calibration = muted RF during calibration tones
  5. Boosting RF levels manually (on A/B) = almost balanced the levels, sound was "hollow", but the speaker clipped during loud scenes (ie. no way I'm trying that again!)
  6. Microprocessor reset (x3) = muted RF
  7. HDMI audio + direct = muted RF in all modes, even DIRECT
  8. Routing audio through EXT.IN = muted RF in all modes, even DIRECT

*I'd estimate the attenuation is between 24db and 30dB, but I haven't measured.

I'm willing to try just about anything at this point...
Here are a few additional things to try; unplug it while not in standby (I.E.) fully on for several hours; clean out your headphone jack (I doubt that is the issue, but worth a try), make sure there is not a short between the +and- on the speaker connection (like a tiny piece of wire), while testing wiggle the speaker connection posts to see if there is a bad connection.

Your symptoms sound more like a bad pre-amp section cap, but given that some inputs work with direct and not others, thats a little odd. Have you tried the multi-channel stereo DSP option? That might help you determine if it is a pre-amp or power amp stage issue. Muted sound on the entire right side while on would be pre-amp. Only RF when on would indicate a problem in the power amp section of the AVR. You could also try to Fonzie it before you take it to the shop.
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post #11475 of 11481 Old 01-31-2016, 03:43 PM
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I'm considering upgrading my Dish Network receiver to the new Hopper 3 that will output 4K video. Will the 1909 pass through a 4K signal? I currently have all devices (dish receiver, Apple TV, Roku, Blu-Ray) passing through the 1909 with one HDMI out to my TV. But it just hit me today that the 1909 may not work with 4K.


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post #11476 of 11481 Old 01-31-2016, 03:48 PM
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I'm considering upgrading my Dish Network receiver to the new Hopper 3 that will output 4K video. Will the 1909 pass through a 4K signal? I currently have all devices (dish receiver, Apple TV, Roku, Blu-Ray) passing through the 1909 with one HDMI out to my TV. But it just hit me today that the 1909 may not work with 4K.


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Sorry, but no. The 1909 is only HDMI 1.3 not the required HDMI 2.0 and if the source is also HDCP 2.2 copy protected, you will need to upgrade to a newer 2015 AVR.

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post #11477 of 11481 Old 01-31-2016, 03:52 PM
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Sorry, but no. The 1909 is only HDMI 1.3 not the required HDMI 2.0 and if the source is also HDCP 2.2 copy protected, you will need to upgrade to a newer 2015 AVR.

What's the highest resolution it will pass through? Am I even getting a true 1080P signal from my Apple TV and Blu-Ray?


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post #11478 of 11481 Old 01-31-2016, 03:55 PM
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What's the highest resolution it will pass through? Am I even getting a true 1080P signal from my Apple TV and Blu-Ray?


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Yup .. 1080p no problem.
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post #11479 of 11481 Old 02-01-2016, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokey982 View Post
I'm considering upgrading my Dish Network receiver to the new Hopper 3 that will output 4K video. Will the 1909 pass through a 4K signal? I currently have all devices (dish receiver, Apple TV, Roku, Blu-Ray) passing through the 1909 with one HDMI out to my TV. But it just hit me today that the 1909 may not work with 4K.


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Use the receiver for audio only and connect tv directly to hopper. This is what I do for my directv box to my Samsung un78hu9000 4K tv. Since most 4K content is streamed right now i.e. Netflix, I use the tv app and no need to pass through receiver. I have optical connected to receiver and and just set up an input for netflix.
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post #11480 of 11481 Old Today, 03:36 PM
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I haven't kept up with the AVR market since my 1909 purchase several years ago. Does anyone know what the current model equivalent would be to the 1909? Seems to be so many options.


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post #11481 of 11481 Old Today, 04:08 PM
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I haven't kept up with the AVR market since my 1909 purchase several years ago. Does anyone know what the current model equivalent would be to the 1909? Seems to be so many options.


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The current closest equivalent is probably the AVR-S910W as far as power. You get many more features (and a tad bit more power) for less wth the new AVRs. If you are looking at in-command that would be the AVR-X2200W which is closer in cost to the original price of the 1909. Currently on sale at Crutchfield for $650 ($799 list) which was the original selling price of the 1909. I haven't looked up what Denon was showing at CES this year, but all new models are sure to be out this Spring, so if you are in the market for a new one wait until the current models are discounted. You can pick up an open-box S910 now for ~$520 and a X2200 for not much more than that. Personally if I were upgrading I'd go with the S910, if I stuck with Denon. There are quite a few tempting options from the usual suspects. I could be swayed into a HK, NAD or Marantz option and there are some Pioneer and Yamahas that look decent. I would not consider Sony or Onkyo. Given that my last two AVRs (both still operational 1909 in HT and 486 in office at work) I probably wouldn't break the mold.
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