*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 07:56 AM
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When in Direct mode do you have subwoofer = Yes in Manual Setup/Speaker Setup? p. 29
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post #1262 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

When in Direct mode do you have subwoofer = Yes in Manual Setup/Speaker Setup? p. 29

Yes I do.
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post #1263 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 08:34 AM
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Do you have Audessey enabled?
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post #1264 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Do you have Audessey enabled?

By default, the receiver does not use Audyssey in direct mode. I've changed it so that it does make use of it.
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post #1265 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 10:05 AM
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Have you tried Direct with Audyssey enabled?
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post #1266 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


Note that you cannot mix HDMI sources in this way.

so if i want to want to watch the game on tv ( cable with hdmi ) and listen to the radio , I'm not able to do this ?
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post #1267 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padlock View Post

Well, I'm sending it 2 channel PCM, and in the manual it states that in direct mode, the sub is used depending on your speaker settings. This is not the case (unless I force it with "LFE + MAIN", but that still doesn't solve the problem of sending the mains a full range signal).



padlock, I have the same "problem". I've been troubleshooting lack of base from my main towers, and have been playing around with 2 chanel direct mode for the last few days using batpigs instructions from a question I asked last week.

I replicated your steps last night and I get no sub output in direct as well. when I hit that same blue button again and go to Stereo, the sub kicks in.

When I go Manual Set up ->Audio -> 2chn/direct, and set the speakers to Large they sound exactly the same in Direct mode if I was to leave them set to Small in 2chn/direct setting. LFe/LFe+Main also makes no difference for me in this direct mode.
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post #1268 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by blacknyc View Post

so if i want to want to watch the game on tv ( cable with hdmi ) and listen to the radio , I'm not able to do this ?

Not AFAIK. It doesn't work on my 2307ci and the note in the instruction manual is identical. You can't mix HDMI audio/video with non-HDMI sources using VideoSelect.

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post #1269 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 11:59 AM
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Also, has anyone experienced this receiver setting the crossover for the main L and R speakers a bit high after Audessey setup? Per Audessey FAQ, it is the receiver, and not Audessey that sets the crossover. My speakers are rated to go down to 80 HZ, and Denon sets them to 200. I even got a replacement pair from the manufacturer.

On a separate note, per a few other posts in this thread, yes, the bass does sound overly boomy at times (fixed by turning the volume knob on the sub down after Audessey calibration).
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post #1270 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtsteevo View Post

padlock, I have the same "problem". I've been troubleshooting lack of base from my main towers, and have been playing around with 2 chanel direct mode for the last few days using batpigs instructions from a question I asked last week.

I replicated your steps last night and I get no sub output in direct as well. when I hit that same blue button again and go to Stereo, the sub kicks in.

When I go Manual Set up ->Audio -> 2chn/direct, and set the speakers to Large they sound exactly the same in Direct mode if I was to leave them set to Small in 2chn/direct setting. LFe/LFe+Main also makes no difference for me in this direct mode.

receiver bass management is bypassed in Direct mode. Receiver will take the incoming channels as it is and will pass it on to the amplifier.

Are you using analog input ? or digital input ?

If you are using the Digital input, I am afraid that you have to use one of the receiver processing options (stereo,dolby prologic..) etc for correct bass management.

If you are using the analog inputs from your CD /DVD player , see if you can set the channels to small and enable the subwoofer option with in the player itself. Not sure if your dvd/cd player has this option, but some high end ones are having this option. That way palyer will do the bass management.
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post #1271 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_13 View Post

receiver bass management is bypassed in Direct mode.

It shouldn't be, that's not the way it has worked on all my Denon receivers back to the 3803. If it's supposed to be bypassed in "Direct" mode, why is there a special setting in the setup menu for "2 CH DIRECT/STEREO" mode where you can tailor the bass management specifically for those modes? Why is there an option in the parameter menu for "SUBWOOFER ON/OFF" while in Direct mode?

Analog vs. 2-channel PCM is irrelevant to this discussion, they should function exactly the same way as far as bass management is concerned.

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post #1272 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtsteevo View Post

Also, has anyone experienced this receiver setting the crossover for the main L and R speakers a bit high after Audessey setup? Per Audessey FAQ, it is the receiver, and not Audessey that sets the crossover. My speakers are rated to go down to 80 HZ, and Denon sets them to 200. I even got a replacement pair from the manufacturer.

On a separate note, per a few other posts in this thread, yes, the bass does overly boomy at times (fixed by turning the volume knob on the sub down after Audessey calibration).

speaker manufacturer may have specified it 80hz. That may be the case when they tested in thier lab facilities.

Did manufaturer specified then 80hz at -3db rollover ?

Usually at homes it may not be possible to replicate the same ideal scenario where speakers are tested (like well configured labs).

Room walls , furniture etc.. does very nasty things to the sound. In your case during the audyssey setup, audyssey identified 200hz at -3db rollver is what those speakers can get to.

You may want rearrange the speakers in the room to see if it can make any difference.
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post #1273 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

It shouldn't be, that's not the way it has worked on all my Denon receivers back to the 3803. If it's supposed to be bypassed in "Direct" mode, why is there a special setting in the setup menu for "2 CH DIRECT/STEREO" mode where you can tailor the bass management specifically for those modes? Why is there an option in the parameter menu for "SUBWOOFER ON/OFF" while in Direct mode?

Analog vs. 2-channel PCM is irrelevant to this discussion, they should function exactly the same way as far as bass management is concerned.

Note: I am not here to argue or to start argument, just providing my experience and understanding.

" 2 CH DIRECT/STEREO " This option is for digital/ analog& digital inputs.

Lets say there is a 2 ch Direct-IN (it is available only via hdmi connection) it will go through the bass management specified in the above option.

For Analog and other PCM digital input - when one engages stereo option receiver will do the bass management as specified in the above option.


For two channel - Optical Coaxial Digital Connections —in direct mode bass management will not be applied ,unless one chooses the stereo option.
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post #1274 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 01:27 PM
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OK, I take it all back -- I just checked this on my 2307ci (unplugging the sub and bumping the crossover to 250Hz) and it behaves exactly the same way, there is no bass management on a 2-channel PCM signal in Direct mode, it is still sending a full-range signal to my two mains! I checked this over an analog RCA connection and a digital PCM (via optical) and it behaved the same way.

Apologies HDMI_13 -- I also wasn't trying to be argumentative, I just actually thought you were misunderstanding! I guess Denon changed their implementation somewhere along the way! It definitely didn't work this way on my 3803 as I remember...

It looks like "DIRECT" does indeed completely bypass the bass management for 2-channel PCM/analog sources. Wacky.

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post #1275 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 01:29 PM
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I have a question: Is there going to be a big difference in sound quality from the 1909 and the 2309? I need a new receiver that will be used with my PS3 for movies. It is going to be paired with the polk Rm6750 surround set for now and eventually upgraded to B+W speakers this winter. I need a set up that will wow my guests when watching blu rays with lossless audio. Any input is greatly appreciated!!
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post #1276 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 02:07 PM
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Funny thing is I get 2 Channel PCM sub activity in Direct and Pure Direct Mode via HDMI when I play CDs and SACDS with my Oppo 981, but no sub using the same discs and settings with the PS3. I think it has something to do with the Oppo having it's own bass management, whereas the PS3 does not. In order to get the sub to kick in on 2 channel PCM material on the PS3, I need to set the Denon to Standard or Stereo Mode. I have Audyssey ON(Direct as well), Speakers set to Small, Sub= LFE and Main. Although I have a Denon 788, the setting choices are almost exactly the same as the 1909/789.

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post #1277 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 02:15 PM
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hi guys, i just got my denon 1909 today. I've been spending over an hour or so trying to turn multEQ on with no luck. I read the manual but its pretty useless with my issue. When i hit the multEQ button, the only option i get is "off". i dont see any of the other options like "audessey" which im supposed to have to enable the audessey filters. I can get the "manual" option to show if i turn manual EQ to "used" in manual setup, but i cant figure out how to activate the other multEQ options.

Can anyone please help? I tried doing searches through the thread with no luck.
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post #1278 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zyren View Post

hi guys, i just got my denon 1909 today. I've been spending over an hour or so trying to turn multEQ on with no luck. I read the manual but its pretty useless with my issue. When i hit the multEQ button, the only option i get is "off". i dont see any of the other options like "audessey" which im supposed to have to enable the audessey filters. I can get the "manual" option to show if i turn manual EQ to "used" in manual setup, but i cant figure out how to activate the other multEQ options.

Can anyone please help? I tried doing searches through the thread with no luck.

Did you plug in the microphone? If I plug in my mic, it takes me straight to the auto calibration screen.
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post #1279 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtsteevo View Post

Also, has anyone experienced this receiver setting the crossover for the main L and R speakers a bit high after Audessey setup? Per Audessey FAQ, it is the receiver, and not Audessey that sets the crossover. My speakers are rated to go down to 80 HZ, and Denon sets them to 200. I even got a replacement pair from the manufacturer.

On a separate note, per a few other posts in this thread, yes, the bass does sound overly boomy at times (fixed by turning the volume knob on the sub down after Audessey calibration).

Yeah, I've had the same 2 issues (although, as stated, the higher crossover may not really be an issue...rather, it may be reality).

I really have a problem with the booming bass. I just upgraded my speakers (Aperions), and I love the sound, but I'm quite annoyed with the bass. Maybe I just don't like booming subs.... I'm considering returning the sub and upgrading my front and center speakers instead (and using an old polk sub turned down)...it will be interesting to see where Audyssey sets the crossover on the new speakers.
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post #1280 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zyren View Post

hi guys, i just got my denon 1909 today. I've been spending over an hour or so trying to turn multEQ on with no luck. I read the manual but its pretty useless with my issue. When i hit the multEQ button, the only option i get is "off". i dont see any of the other options like "audessey" which im supposed to have to enable the audessey filters. I can get the "manual" option to show if i turn manual EQ to "used" in manual setup, but i cant figure out how to activate the other multEQ options.

Can anyone please help? I tried doing searches through the thread with no luck.

Did you run the auto setup? You can't use any of the Audyssey features until you run the auto-calibration procedure! Of course the only option is "off", Audyssey has no information from which to program any of the EQ filters.

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post #1281 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 02:39 PM
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Thanks. I assumed enabling audessey would bring me to the calibration settings. i had plugged in my mic before and the screen didnt show. i tried replugging it and the calibration screen showed up. im running the calibration settings now.
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post #1282 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbuick6 View Post

Funny thing is I get 2 Channel PCM sub activity in Direct and Pure Direct Mode via HDMI when I play CDs and SACDS with my Oppo 981, but no sub using the same discs and settings with the PS3. I think it has something to do with the Oppo having it's own bass management.

Well, the direct/pure direct modes work on multichannel PCM as well as 2-channel, so if your input device (the oppo) is performing bass management and inputting 2.1 PCM or 5.1 PCM (for an SACD) then it will play that LFE track. When playing a 2-channel CD from the oppo, check the display and see if it is receiving 2-channel PCM or 2/0/.1 channel PCM (i.e. the Oppo is creating a discrete LFE track before it ever gets to the Denon).

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post #1283 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintchris View Post

I have a question: Is there going to be a big difference in sound quality from the 1909 and the 2309? I need a new receiver that will be used with my PS3 for movies. It is going to be paired with the polk Rm6750 surround set for now and eventually upgraded to B+W speakers this winter. I need a set up that will wow my guests when watching blu rays with lossless audio. Any input is greatly appreciated!!

Big difference?..most likely not. The 2309 is a nice avr and has some features that the 1909 doesn't. It's all about your budget, and what features you actually need. As far as sound is concerned..you will hear very little difference between the two imo.

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post #1284 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Not AFAIK. It doesn't work on my 2307ci and the note in the instruction manual is identical. You can't mix HDMI audio/video with non-HDMI sources using VideoSelect.


got it... thanks
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post #1285 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Well, the direct/pure direct modes work on multichannel PCM as well as 2-channel, so if your input device (the oppo) is performing bass management and inputting 2.1 PCM or 5.1 PCM (for an SACD) then it will play that LFE track. When playing a 2-channel CD from the oppo, check the display and see if it is receiving 2-channel PCM or 2/0/.1 channel PCM (i.e. the Oppo is creating a discrete LFE track before it ever gets to the Denon).

The Denon is definitely receiving and displaying 2/0 PCM on CDs and Stereo SACDs from the Oppo, not 2.1, yet the Sub is active. The Denon displays 3/2/.1 when playing the same discs on the PS3, but no Sub activity in Direct/Pure Direct Mode. When watching DVDs and Blurays on the PS3 the sub kicks just fine in Pure Direct.

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post #1286 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 04:12 PM
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wacky... I'm out of ideas.

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post #1287 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbuick6 View Post

The Denon is definitely receiving and displaying 2/0 PCM on CDs and Stereo SACDs from the Oppo, not 2.1, yet the Sub is active. The Denon displays 3/2/.1 when playing the same discs on the PS3, but no Sub activity in Direct/Pure Direct Mode. When watching DVDs and Blurays on the PS3 the sub kicks just fine in Pure Direct.

This is my workaround for my ps3/denon issues...which might be causing your problem. Thru hdmi, I get no restorer function when playing cd's/mp3's. It's because the ps3 is sending 5.1 signal but 3.1 are blank channels, and 2 channels of music.

Rather than going in and changing all the sampling rates on the ps3 hdmi sound output..which could take 30 seconds or so, plus you would have to change them back for movies. Attach the the ps3 to the denon thru the ps3's optical output. Go into the sound settings of the ps3 and change it to output optical via bitstream..this takes 10 seconds. Then when you wish to watch a B/D just switch the output to hdmi again.

It works for me and may help you with the ps3. For such a nice piece of hardware you would think the ps3 would know when to output a 2 channel signal and a 5.1/7.1 signal with no blank channels. Oh well..hopefully with a firmware upgrade.

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post #1288 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post

Big difference?..most likely not. The 2309 is a nice avr and has some features that the 1909 doesn't. It's all about your budget, and what features you actually need. As far as sound is concerned..you will hear very little difference between the two imo.

I agree though 1909 is 24/96-only, using some noname AD/DAs.
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post #1289 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 06:38 PM
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I agree though 1909 is 24/96-only, using some noname AD/DAs.

Analog conversions are so last century.
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post #1290 of 11338 Old 09-02-2008, 07:17 PM
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I am asking the same question here since I have only received a few hits in the 606 thread and they are more about the price than advice lol. I am trying to decide on which receiver to go with. I am looking to upgrade my non-HDMI Denon for our family room (will be connected to a PS3 for games and movie watching). I can get the 606 for $283 shipped or the Denon 1909 for $480 shipped. Obviously the $200 difference is a factor, but I am very worried about the humming and heat issue that I have read about with the 606. However, I am really digging the 1909 and it's features after reading most of this thread. Any advise on which to go with if you are on a budget?
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