*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 09:05 AM
Member
 
hrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by solcris View Post

Does anyone know if there is a straight pass through. I would like to hear and watch the TV with the 1909 turned off (for my wife). I have Direct TV DVR.

I would like this also. But do not know if any AVR's do this. Although I have asked some questions about it nobody has offered an alternative.
I can only assume it can be done via a HDMI switcher if you have just one HDMI on the tv.
Afraid to ask though cause most people will say "why do you want to listen to the tv speakers."

But I have noticed Im not the only one who wishes to do this.
My tv has 3 HDMI in.
Assuming that I could use a HDMI from cablebox to tv to do this.
Then another HDMI from AVR to tv to play sources.

Only other thing I would like is to play PS3 with AVR on or AVR off.
Thinking I could get this done with HDMI switcher?

Im also considering the 1909.

My last receiver Onkyo TX-SV717PRO.
NO HDMI, digital audio, component video, XM or Ipod.
NO problems.
hrin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 09:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 23,824
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by solcris View Post

Does anyone know if there is a straight pass through. I would like to hear and watch the TV with the 1909 turned off (for my wife). I have Direct TV DVR.

I don't think any receiver does this AFAIK.

HDMI straight to TV for video, optical/coax to the 1909 for audio. There really isn't much need to run your cable through the receiver.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #183 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 09:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Bugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrin View Post

I would like this also. But do not know if any AVR's do this. Although I have asked some questions about it nobody has offered an alternative.
I can only assume it can be done via a HDMI switcher if you have just one HDMI on the tv.
Afraid to ask though cause most people will say "why do you want to listen to the tv speakers."

But I have noticed Im not the only one who wishes to do this.
My tv has 3 HDMI in.
Assuming that I could use a HDMI from cablebox to tv to do this.
Then another HDMI from AVR to tv to play sources.

Only other thing I would like is to play PS3 with AVR on or AVR off.
Thinking I could get this done with HDMI switcher?

Im also considering the 1909.

I had the Onkyo TX-SR606 for a few weeks and found that it was able to pass through an HDMI signal with the receiver "off". I put the "off" in quotes because it was really in a state that Onkyo called "ready" (somewhere in between "standby" and "on"), where the HDMI switching was powered, but not the amplifier. In this configuration, the audio and video from my Directv DVR (or other source) was passed through to the TV and I could use the TV speakers. I really liked this feature, but unfortunately, I had to return the 606 due to the buzz/hum issue.
Bugs is offline  
post #184 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 09:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
Amel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Clearwater Fl
Posts: 635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bugs, are you getting your 1909 tonight?

Blu-Ray Supporter
Amel is offline  
post #185 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:15 AM
Senior Member
 
heebdawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quick question for you 1909 guys:

Did you consider instead buying the 988/2808 (which Circuit City now has on sale for $649 until they run out of stock, best deal ever) when purchasing your 1909? If so, what made you go for the 1909 over the 988/2808?

I am torn between the two, now that they are the exact same price. I really like the third HDMI and the extra two Audyssey features, but I am wondering if I would be better off w/ the 988.
heebdawg16 is offline  
post #186 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
Amel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Clearwater Fl
Posts: 635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by heebdawg16 View Post

Quick question for you 1909 guys:

Did you consider instead buying the 988/2808 (which Circuit City now has on sale for $649 until they run out of stock, best deal ever) when purchasing your 1909? If so, what made you go for the 1909 over the 988/2808?

I am torn between the two, now that they are the exact same price. I really like the third HDMI and the extra two Audyssey features, but I am wondering if I would be better off w/ the 988.

most of us are going for the 1909 because of the audessey dynamic volume option and the Denon AVR-2808CI has 2 hdmi inputs if I remember

Blu-Ray Supporter
Amel is offline  
post #187 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:27 AM
Member
 
ryaneverett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Neither my PS3 nor my cable box will "pass through" the 1909 to an Epson 1080UB. The 1909 must be turned on for the signal to be received.
ryaneverett is offline  
post #188 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:34 AM
Senior Member
 
Bugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amel View Post

bugs, are you getting your 1909 tonight?

UPS says it's "out for delivery". With the usual UPS schedule, it should show up here between 5:00 and 6:00. I sent my 606 back about 3 weeks ago and have been without an AVR since then. I'm soooo ready. I have my fingers crossed that I won't have any issues with the 1909.
Bugs is offline  
post #189 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:41 AM
Member
 
danpass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just a side question considering the thread title: what makes the 1909 and the 789 so similar that it is "/"?
danpass is offline  
post #190 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JohnAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by danpass View Post

Just a side question considering the thread title: what makes the 1909 and the 789 so similar that it is "/"?

There are two lines of Denon's sold to competing stores. The AVR-789 is the mass retailer version for example CC would sell, and the AVR-1909 is the audio specialist store version that BB with Magnolia HIFI sells. Depending on the models there are some differences in appearance, capabilities and price.

Oppo Beta Group
JohnAV is offline  
post #191 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:44 AM
Senior Member
 
Bugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amel View Post

most of us are going for the 1909 because of the audessey dynamic volume option and the Denon AVR-2808CI has 2 hdmi inputs if I remember

I second Amel on this one. The pirmary feature that attracts me to the 1909 is dynamic volume. It's going to be essential to my wife's enjoyment of surround sound, and when my wife enjoys it, I'll be able to enjoy it.

Why is it that women almost universally hate surround sound? I know that a bunch of speakers doesn't fit with the decorating sensibilities of most women, but I think it goes beyond that. Nearly every woman I know wants the sound to come from the direction of the display and seems to get annoyed when it comes from somewhere else. Men, OTOH, seem to like the viseral envolvement with the action that happens when the room is filled with sound. Could it be a difference in brain structure? Surely, with all the research that's been done on sound and audio processing, someone must have studied this.
Bugs is offline  
post #192 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:50 AM
Member
 
danpass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

There are two lines of Denon's sold to competing stores. The AVR-789 is the mass retailer version for example CC would sell, and the AVR-1909 is the audio specialist store version that BB with Magnolia HIFI sells. Depending on the models there are some differences in appearance, capabilities and price.

ok, I was going to come back and actually read the thread (INCONCEIVABLE!) but I did it now before leaving
danpass is offline  
post #193 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JohnAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs View Post

I second Amel on this one. The pirmary feature that attracts me to the 1909 is dynamic volume. It's going to be essential to my wife's enjoyment of surround sound, and when my wife enjoys it, I'll be able to enjoy it.

It always a good idea to include your wife in your home theater plans as you do have to live in the same house.

Oppo Beta Group
JohnAV is offline  
post #194 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
 
heebdawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs View Post

I second Amel on this one. The pirmary feature that attracts me to the 1909 is dynamic volume. It's going to be essential to my wife's enjoyment of surround sound, and when my wife enjoys it, I'll be able to enjoy it.


Well then along these lines, I have to ask...

how much better is the new Audyssey Dynamic Volume feature compared to the "dynamic volume"-like feature on last years Denons? Is it REALLY that much better?

I believe the old dynamic volume setting was just called "night mode".

The 2-vs-3 hdmi connection is meaningless to me, as I can have infinite HDMI ports if i need them by just using a splitter. So, really, the only feature difference that matters to me is the dynamic volume feature on the new 1909. Is that feature alone worth getting the 1909 for vs. the old 2808/988? Because sound-wise, I know the 2808 has to sound much better, plus it has AL24+ processing, etc.


I'm pretty much looking to make my decision tonight, as Circuit City only has one remaining store within 50 miles of me that still has a 988 left in stock.
heebdawg16 is offline  
post #195 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 11:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JohnAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by heebdawg16 View Post

Well then along these lines, I have to ask...

how much better is the new Audyssey Dynamic Volume feature compared to the "dynamic volume"-like feature on last years Denons? Is it REALLY that much better?

I believe the old dynamic volume setting was just called "night mode".

The Dolby Night-Mode used on Denon's is basically a dynamic range compressor that reduces the peak output of Dolby Digital sources, so that explosions and other effects are rendered at a similar level to speech and music when listening at low volume levels.

Dynamic Volume used with Dynamic EQ selects the best possible frequency response and surround volume levels on a moment-by-moment basis. These two technologies enable the full frequency response of the source at its original level to be reproduced at any listening level. Even at lower listening volumes, Dynamic Volume ensures that the richness and dynamics of the response are maintained.

Audyssey Dynamic Volume employs advanced audio signal processing that operates in both the time and frequency domains. The spectral content in individual channels and the surround mix are continuously monitored in order to maintain proper spatial volume. Both rapid and slow changes in level and dynamics are monitored in order to prevent the common artifacts produced by standard compressor methods.

Oppo Beta Group
JohnAV is offline  
post #196 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 11:05 AM
Senior Member
 
Bugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by heebdawg16 View Post

Well then along these lines, I have to ask...

how much better is the new Audyssey Dynamic Volume feature compared to the "dynamic volume"-like feature on last years Denons? Is it REALLY that much better?

I believe the old dynamic volume setting was just called "night mode".

You can read a description of Audyssey Dynamic Volume here: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dynamicvolume.html

I haven't read a comparison of Dynamic Volume to "night mode", but the initial reports of this new feature (including some in this thread) sound very encouraging.
Bugs is offline  
post #197 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 11:54 AM
Member
 
solcris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: California
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't think any receiver does this AFAIK.

HDMI straight to TV for video, optical/coax to the 1909 for audio. There really isn't much need to run your cable through the receiver.

Thanks......that's the way I have it set up.
solcris is offline  
post #198 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 12:23 PM
Member
 
okichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't think any receiver does this AFAIK.

HDMI straight to TV for video, optical/coax to the 1909 for audio. There really isn't much need to run your cable through the receiver.

I don't know about other players, but the PS3 will not pass HD audio through optical, nor will it pass audio through optical and video through HDMI.

I also wish there's a way I can set up where I don't have to use my Receiver every time I watch TV. Sometimes I'd like to play video game while listening to music, and other times I just don't want everything turned on.

An HDMI out from my TV to Receiver would be nice, too bad my TV doesn't have that.
okichi is offline  
post #199 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 01:07 PM
Member
 
enkur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The PS3 can indeed send video through HDMI and audio through optical (go through the setup and gives you the option when you select HDMI video). Thats how I had the setup before I purchased the AVR-1909. It wont send 7.1 out of the optical but Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 bitstream and decoded PCM 5.1 are both supported on the optical out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by okichi View Post

I don't know about other players, but the PS3 will not pass HD audio through optical, nor will it pass audio through optical and video through HDMI.

I also wish there's a way I can set up where I don't have to use my Receiver every time I watch TV. Sometimes I'd like to play video game while listening to music, and other times I just don't want everything turned on.

An HDMI out from my TV to Receiver would be nice, too bad my TV doesn't have that.

enkur is offline  
post #200 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 01:12 PM
Member
 
enkur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am having second thoughts about my AVR-1909 and I think I might be better off with AVR-889 as it has a 4th HDMI input and is $100 more that 1909. All 3 of my HDMI are used up... xbox360, ps3 and cable box. Would like to have a spare for any future additions.
I really dont have the need for CI stuff or need the second remote as I use a universal remote anyway... no need for dual zone either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Good HDMI switch, but its just another $99 device you need to remote control.

A AVR-2309CI is only $849 if you really need four HDMI inputs. The AVR-889 with four HDMI ports is $749.

enkur is offline  
post #201 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 01:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
Amel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Clearwater Fl
Posts: 635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by enkur View Post

The PS3 can indeed send video through HDMI and audio through optical (go through the setup and gives you the option when you select HDMI video). Thats how I had the setup before I purchased the AVR-1909. It wont send 7.1 out of the optical but Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 bitstream and decoded PCM 5.1 are both supported on the optical out.

I am running mine right now with hdmi video and optical audio

Blu-Ray Supporter
Amel is offline  
post #202 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 01:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tvted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 3,571
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by okichi View Post

nor will it pass audio through optical and video through HDMI.

Not quite sure what you are saying here as this is exactly the way my PS3 is hooked up since I don't have an HDMI capable AVR.

HDMI direct to my projector
Optical to my older Yamaha which handles lossy codecs just fine.

ted
tvted is online now  
post #203 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 01:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 23,824
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by okichi View Post

I don't know about other players, but the PS3 will not pass HD audio through optical, nor will it pass audio through optical and video through HDMI.

Please read the question I was responding to, we weren't talking about the PS3 at all.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #204 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 02:30 PM
Senior Member
 
bdrex28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by enkur View Post

The PS3 can indeed send video through HDMI and audio through optical (go through the setup and gives you the option when you select HDMI video). Thats how I had the setup before I purchased the AVR-1909. It wont send 7.1 out of the optical but Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 bitstream and decoded PCM 5.1 are both supported on the optical out.

I concur with this. In my other room with a ps3 I have video going through HDMI and audio through Optical.
bdrex28 is offline  
post #205 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 02:41 PM
Member
 
solcris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: California
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by enkur View Post

The PS3 can indeed send video through HDMI and audio through optical (go through the setup and gives you the option when you select HDMI video). Thats how I had the setup before I purchased the AVR-1909. It wont send 7.1 out of the optical but Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 bitstream and decoded PCM 5.1 are both supported on the optical out.


I also had mine set with HDMI video and Optical sound to my old receiver. Under BD settings in the PS3 scroll down to "Optical out" and highlight "Bitstream". Now you will get HDMI video to the TV and Digital Sound to your receiver. As stated above.....you can not get True HD or DTS HD with an optical setup.
solcris is offline  
post #206 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 02:41 PM
Member
 
okichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I stand corrected on passing video through HDMI with audio through optical. I think I eliminated that option (using optical with PS3) due to the limitation, and eventually all the facts got mixed up in my head.

Sorry batpig I wasn't trying to correct you. I'm just saying in my case it wouldn't work. The point was that I wish I don't have to turn on the AVR every time as well.
okichi is offline  
post #207 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 02:54 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 23,824
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 938
Why wouldn't you want to turn the AVR on for the PS3? I understand if the wife or kids just want to watch some TV, but I would think the PS3 would demand the full setup!!

You cannot send HD audio over optical, even from the PS3. People seem to be confusing things here. The ONLY WAY to get the new, HD audio sound from the PS3 is through HDMI, period. If the PS3 decodes and sends PCM over optical it is a downmixed version, you are not actually hearing the Dolby TrueHD / DTS-MA soundtrack.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #208 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 02:59 PM
Senior Member
 
bdrex28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Why wouldn't you want to turn the AVR on for the PS3? I understand if the wife or kids just want to watch some TV, but I would think the PS3 would demand the full setup!!

You cannot send HD audio over optical, even from the PS3. People seem to be confusing things here. The ONLY WAY to get the new, HD audio sound from the PS3 is through HDMI, period. If the PS3 decodes and sends PCM over optical it is a downmixed version, you are not actually hearing the Dolby TrueHD / DTS-MA soundtrack.

I think we were all just talking about standard audio, not HD audio.
bdrex28 is offline  
post #209 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 03:02 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 23,824
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 938
Then everything's sorted out!

Back to the 1909/789...

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #210 of 11340 Old 07-25-2008, 03:06 PM
Senior Member
 
bdrex28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am planning on picking up the 1909 this next week when I'm in Tulsa as Oklahoma City doesn't have a Magnolia (that's another story).

I "may" also check out the new Klipsch WF's at the same time. I'm hoping they'll give me a good deal if I buy all of them at the same visit.
bdrex28 is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 789 630 Watt 7 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off