*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 76 - AVS Forum
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post #2251 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by omirp View Post

The only reason ppl to 789 is they are sold in B&M stores, Circuit City mainly. The JR price is the most attractive, if it is still discounted.

What's the JR price (pm me if it can't be posted).
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post #2252 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dignatec View Post

What's the JR price (pm me if it can't be posted).

If you search this thread, it's not too hard to find (try searching for: free shipping). I ordered mine on 10/14 and it was still good.

Brian
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post #2253 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dignatec View Post

I think the front page of this thread points out that the only real diff is the zone 2 remote (which is nice to have). It all depends on what price you get them at, should be fairly similar.

********************************

Question: Has anyone using a HD PVR with the Denon 1909 ( I'm with Rogers in Toronto) noticed that changing channels, there is a delay for the video to come on? For example, I can hear the audio for the baseball game last night, but the picture/video doesn't show up until almost 5 seconds later!!!

Is this a HDMI Issue (first time using a HDMI receiver) or is this a Denon issue? I find this quite irritating to be honest, you can't really switch channels quickly at all now. Before my PVR was connected directly to the TV so this was a non-issue.

Any tips/suggestions on how to fix this? I'm very happy with the unit otherwise, I just need to figure out how to resolve this.

Thx!

Bright House in Central Florida, Explorer 8300 HD DVR...same issue, with denon or without. HDMI only, takes about 4 seconds or so for the picture to come on changing channels, using the recall button, takes about 5-6 seconds. Again this is an HDMI issue.
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post #2254 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 09:45 AM
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Ah ok, that's rather annoying isn't it? Isn't the purpose of digital to be better overall than analogue? At least I'm not the only one having the issue.
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post #2255 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by quik View Post

Sounds like your HD PVR is set to native, which will change the output format from 480i, 1080i, 720p etc... depending on what each channel is displaying. Which will cause your TV to resync to the new format causing a delay when switching from certain channels. Set the PVR to 1080i fixed output.

If you set the PVR to 1080i what happens when you watch a show that is not 1080i or is SD?

One other thing, as if you can't tell I am a newbie when it comes to this but I was hoping someone could tell me why you need to assign the inputs and what does that mean. I am expecting delivery next week and wanted to make sure I understood this since I have been told the manual is not very good.

Thanks,

Steven
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post #2256 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by wallstreet123456 View Post

If you set the PVR to 1080i what happens when you watch a show that is not 1080i or is SD?

Thanks,

Steven

Taking 720p, for example, to a display that is 1080p -

720p -> 1080p -> 1080i -> 1080p

In other words, unnecessary processing that will degrade the picture.
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post #2257 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by wallstreet123456 View Post

If you set the PVR to 1080i what happens when you watch a show that is not 1080i or is SD?

One other thing, as if you can't tell I am a newbie when it comes to this but I was hoping someone could tell me why you need to assign the inputs and what does that mean. I am expecting delivery next week and wanted to make sure I understood this since I have been told the manual is not very good.

Thanks,

Steven

If you set the PVR/STB to output 1080i, it will upconvert all content to 1080i before it feeds the display over HDMI. So, your display won't have to constantly renegotiate the handshake every time you change channels.

"Assigning inputs" simply means telling the AVR what device is connected to what input.

The manual is understandable once you get your head around it. You might want to download a pdf copy on line and read it or take time after you get the box to read the manual - when all else fails - before you start to set the AVR up. Better still, read the helpful advice on the first and following pages of this thread. That's what I did. And it really did help.

Dana

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post #2258 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Taking 720p, for example, to a display that is 1080p -

720p -> 1080p -> 1080i -> 1080p

In other words, unnecessary processing that will degrade the picture.


gary, so if I understand you ,setting it to 180I will degrade the picture?
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post #2259 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by wallstreet123456 View Post

gary, so if I understand you ,setting it to 180I will degrade the picture?

That is correct. If your display happens to be 720p it gets even worse -

720p -> 1080p -> 1080i -> 1080p -> 720p.
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post #2260 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Taking 720p, for example, to a display that is 1080p -

720p -> 1080p -> 1080i -> 1080p

In other words, unnecessary processing that will degrade the picture.

What PVR/STB are you referring to?

Dana

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post #2261 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

What PVR/STB are you referring to?

Dana

Any. It does not matter.
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post #2262 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:49 AM
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So then I should keep it set at native?
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post #2263 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallstreet123456 View Post

So then I should keep it set at native?

native = best picture

fixed resolution = faster channel changing
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post #2264 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

native = best picture

fixed resolution = faster channel changing

It is the opposite.
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post #2265 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:00 AM
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slow channel changing is just endemic to HDMI connections because of all the stupid copywright crap and the constant need to renegotiate the "handshake" every time the resolution changes.

comments like this:

Quote:


Ah ok, that's rather annoying isn't it? Isn't the purpose of digital to be better overall than analogue?

indicate that the marketing efforts have worked and people have bought into the HDMI=holy grail concept.

For the most part, i.e. with movie players, video game systems, etc. HDMI is fine. But cable boxes are really the worst offenders because the signal is constantly changing.

For this reason, I also run a component video monitor connection to my display, and I have my HD PVR (8300hd) hooked up with component. If you have a Harmony remote (or other good universal), it's trivial to switch the input for the cable box, and you never have to worry about signal drops, slow channel changes, etc. Plus I leave HDMI inputs available for important things like when I eventually get a BD player or PS3.

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post #2266 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bagakay View Post

It is the opposite.

no it's not, Gary is correct

"native" means the cable box just spits out the channel at the native resolution, meaning the crappy cable box doesn't try to process the image, i.e. best picture

"fixed" means the cable box turns everything into 1080i -- so there are faster channel changes because the TV only sees one resolution, but the picture quality is potentially degraded by the intervention of the crappy cable box.

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post #2267 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Any. It does not matter.

None of them upconvert to 1080p at the moment. So it does matter as far as your illustration is concerned.

Dana

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post #2268 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:05 AM
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I think Gary was just saying that all cable boxes suck at video processing, so you don't have to be referring to a specific unit/model to make the generalization that having the STB output a fixed resolution will degrade PQ

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post #2269 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

None of them upconvert to 1080p at the moment. So it does matter as far as your illustration is concerned.

Dana

The 1080p conversion is happening at a point past the cable/satellite box. All necessary processing of the signal from source to display should be considered.
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post #2270 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think Gary was just saying that all cable boxes suck at video processing, so you don't have to be referring to a specific unit/model to make the generalization that having the STB output a fixed resolution will degrade PQ

Well, you know what can be said about any generalization - including mine.

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post #2271 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

slow channel changing is just endemic to HDMI connections because of all the stupid copywright crap and the constant need to renegotiate the "handshake" every time the resolution changes.

comments like this:



indicate that the marketing efforts have worked and people have bought into the HDMI=holy grail concept.

For the most part, i.e. with movie players, video game systems, etc. HDMI is fine. But cable boxes are really the worst offenders because the signal is constantly changing.

For this reason, I also run a component video monitor connection to my display, and I have my HD PVR (8300hd) hooked up with component. If you have a Harmony remote (or other good universal), it's trivial to switch the input for the cable box, and you never have to worry about signal drops, slow channel changes, etc. Plus I leave HDMI inputs available for important things like when I eventually get a BD player or PS3.

No, I personally did not buy into the digital hype, but the theory is that it should work just as well if not better. Anyway, I do run component to my receiver from the 8300hd. I will just change the input so it's fixed at 1080i instead of native and that should do it. I only watch HD channels anyway (for the most part) so PQ shouldn't be an issue.

I have the Harmony 880 remote, what is the feature called on the harmony for the 8300 to get it to switch from native to fixed at 1080i (I have a 1080i lcd)? Sometimes the labels are a bit too short to tell what it's actually doing....

Thanks!
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post #2272 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:22 AM
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Batpig,

So for my TIVO, I should connect the audio to the receiver via component and to the tv directly from tivo for video or are you connecting both HDMI and Component fro PVR?

Thanks for your help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

slow channel changing is just endemic to HDMI connections because of all the stupid copywright crap and the constant need to renegotiate the "handshake" every time the resolution changes.

comments like this:



indicate that the marketing efforts have worked and people have bought into the HDMI=holy grail concept.

For the most part, i.e. with movie players, video game systems, etc. HDMI is fine. But cable boxes are really the worst offenders because the signal is constantly changing.

For this reason, I also run a component video monitor connection to my display, and I have my HD PVR (8300hd) hooked up with component. If you have a Harmony remote (or other good universal), it's trivial to switch the input for the cable box, and you never have to worry about signal drops, slow channel changes, etc. Plus I leave HDMI inputs available for important things like when I eventually get a BD player or PS3.

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post #2273 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:23 AM
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I find most HD content on TV is 1080i, so I've always had the DVR's fixed to 1080i output, personally I can live with a few shows at 720p with slightly degraded quality, which can be fairly negligible... especially since I'm using HDMI so it's only converted once on the HD DVR. Most FOX HD shows are in 720p, and i haven't noticed much picture degradation, only some graininess which might even be part of the original content... I am very picky on PQ too so most folks probably won't notice any PQ loss and have faster channel changing (with HDMI).

If I had an HDMI output on my HD DVR, I personally would not hook up my cable box via component and upconvert it to 1080p through the 1909 though.

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post #2274 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallstreet123456 View Post

Batpig,

So for my TIVO, I should connect the audio to the receiver via component and to the tv directly from tivo for video or are you connecting both HDMI and Component fro PVR?

Thanks for your help.

Component is referring to video not audio. Audio you would probably want to use spdif.
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post #2275 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dignatec View Post

I have the Harmony 880 remote, what is the feature called on the harmony for the 8300 to get it to switch from native to fixed at 1080i (I have a 1080i lcd)? Sometimes the labels are a bit too short to tell what it's actually doing....

I don't know what software you are running on your 8300hd, but you need to somehow access the SETTINGS menu on the 8300 and find the picture resolution options. If you haven't programmed a button for "SETTINGS" or "MENU" on your Harmony, it might be easier to just grab the 8300hd remote for a minute. Most folks program the "MENU" button on their Harmony to call up the DVR list of recorded programs.

Call up the settings (you probably have to hit the button twice as the first press brings up just a few basic options) and scroll up/down until you find an option for PICTURE OUTPUT or RESOLUTION or something. One of the options should say "FIXED". Just make sure you are on a 1080i channel (DISCOVERY HD is a safe bet) because when you switch it to "FIXED", it will just fix it at the current resolution.

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post #2276 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Component is referring to video not audio. Audio you would probably want to use spdif.

Be aware with component video you are producing artifacts because of a digital to analog conversion which will also degrade picture quality. You may not find them objectionable though.
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post #2277 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't know what software you are running on your 8300hd, but you need to somehow access the SETTINGS menu on the 8300 and find the picture resolution options. If you haven't programmed a button for "SETTINGS" or "MENU" on your Harmony, it might be easier to just grab the 8300hd remote for a minute. Most folks program the "MENU" button on their Harmony to call up the DVR list of recorded programs.

Call up the settings (you probably have to hit the button twice as the first press brings up just a few basic options) and scroll up/down until you find an option for PICTURE OUTPUT or RESOLUTION or something. One of the options should say "FIXED". Just make sure you are on a 1080i channel (DISCOVERY HD is a safe bet) because when you switch it to "FIXED", it will just fix it at the current resolution.

Perfect, will try that when I go home tonight, thanks! I lost my 8300 remote hence I was asking how to do it with the Harmony remote. Will post back if it doesn't work.
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post #2278 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 01:36 PM
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OK, if you don't have the original remote, in the Harmony database for 8300HD it will either be called "MENU" or "SETTINGS".

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post #2279 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 01:45 PM
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Go easy on me guys this is my first post and a bit of a noob.

I have just purchased an AVR-1909 yesterday and set it up with a Sony DVD player (no upscaling facilites on this) and connected it with component to the amp with a digital optical connection , SD sky satellite conected via composite and L/R audio. I ran an hdmi cable from HDMI Monitor out to an HDMI wall plate that is connected to an Optoma HD70 projector via a 10m hdmi.

Now my problem is that I couldn't get a signal on the projector through hdmi, I have been through the settings many times and cant really see where I am going wrong, I can get video to the projector if I use component or s-video monitor out. Today I borrowed a mates Toshiba upscaling dvd player and connected it with hdmi cable straight to the back of the PJ and this was okay so connected toshiba via hdmi wallplate and the PJ found the signal. connected Toshiba to the amp via HDMI 1 again no video but had the audio. I tried two different hdmi cables between amp/Toshiba dvd/wallplate and they both worked fine from dvd to wallplate to PJ.
So it would suggest that problem lies with the amp?

Anyone else experienced these problems and if so how were they resolved.

Cheers

Davie
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post #2280 of 11381 Old 10-24-2008, 01:59 PM
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That is an awful long HDMI run and some devices can send HDMI signals on longer runs than other devices can. Do you have access to a HDMI signal booster?
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