*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 6Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11392 Old 07-17-2008, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
HDMI_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Please post Only Denon AVR 1909 related info here!


DENON AVR 1909/789 FAQ

Denon AVR-1909 Product info page:

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4241.asp

Denon AVR-789 Product info page:

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4560.asp

From the above you can download the Manual, Product Sheet etc.


Reviews:

http://whathifi.com/Review/Denon-AVR-1909/

Many Thanks to BATPIG for preparing FAQs and sharing with the fellow and future Denon AVR-1909 owners.



FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS



1. GENERAL PRODUCT INFORMATION


Q. What is the difference between the 789 and the 1909, I was looking at their specs on the Denon website and they look identical?

A: Denon puts out two parallel receiver lineups, with four-digit and three-digit model numbers. The four-digit models are generally sold by high end stereo shops and custom installers, and the three-digit models are the "consumer" version sold in retail outlets like Circuit City and Fry's.

However, there is ZERO difference in terms of power, specs, sound quality, build quality, etc. between the two lines. Denon has been doing this for years, it is exactly analagous to the Yamaha HTR and RX-V parallel receiver lines.

There will usually be one or two minor differences to differentiate the three-digit and four-digit models. There is typically a slight cosmetic difference between the two lines, and different remotes.

In the specific case of the 1909 vs. 789, the only differences (besides the cosmetics) is:

1. the 1909 includes a small, second remote intended for Zone 2 operation, and
2. the 1909 has a plug on the back labeled "RF/RC 2WAY", next to the Sirius plug. The function of this plug is to allow you to hard-wire a two-way RF remote controller (sold separately) to use in a different room. See page 20 of the manual for a detailed explanation.

In all other respects, the 1909 and 789 are IDENTICAL.


Q. I noticed that last year's AVR 988 is on sale for the same price as the 1909/789, should I get that instead?

A. While the 988 (same as 2808ci) is a higher-end model, a critical difference is that it does not have the newest Audyssey features, Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ.

For more info, please see the "official" 988 vs 1909 thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1049185


Q. I noticed that the AVR 2309ci/889 is only a couple hundred more. Is it worth it to step up to the higher model?

A. The primary benefit of the 2309/889 vs the 1909/789 is the addition of the fourth HDMI input.

Both 1909/789 and 2309/889 have identical audio decoding capability, identical video processing capability, identical multizone functionality, and identical Audyssey feature sets.

This is a list of features you gain stepping up from 1909/789 to 2309/889:

1. 2 lbs heavier, and a 2-inch deeper chassis
2. A slightly better amp section with superior 4-ohm performance (see this post for bench test results)
3. A fourth rear HDMI input
4. A fourth rear S-video / composite video input
5. S-video and optical audio inputs on front auxilliary input
6. Dedicated phono input with pre-amp stage
7. Detachable power cord
8. RS232 and 12V Trigger ports (2309ci only)


Only you can decide if these features are "worth it", please do not ask


Q: I’m afraid to buy a Yamaha because it clips the HDMI video signal, and I’m afraid to buy a Harman Kardon because of all the problems with the PS3. Please tell me the Denon works?

A: Denon seems to get HDMI implementation correct.

At this point, there are no known bugs at all with the 1909/789 and the PS3. Enjoy!

The Denon 1909/789 will also correctly pass BTB/WTW signals over HDMI (no video clipping), and test patterns have confirmed that it does not touch digital video while passing it through.

The only thing generally wrong with Denons is the sucky manual!


Q. Does the AVR 1909/789 screw up the video at all?

A. Not that we know of. As noted above, all Denon AVR’s correctly pass BTB/WTW.

The 1909/789 will not do ANY processing to HDMI video. The only thing it will do is pass the video through. There is NO processing and NO degrading/clipping of HDMI video at all.

The only video processing available is analog-to-digital transcoding and scaling. The analog>digital transcode may soften the picture slightly, although you probably will never notice it. If you leave all the video settings at the defaults, the Denon will take any analog signal you input and output it via HDMI at the highest resolution setting your TV accepts.

The Faroudja scaler in the Denon does a good job in general with standard definition material (as it was specifically designed for 480i deinterlacing in progressive DVD players), but it is no great shakes in terms of scaling and HD processing (especially 1080i deinterlacing).

However, it may still be better than the video processing in your TV. You will have to test this out yourself and see which does a better job.

If you would like to disable the video processing on an analog source, set “i/p Scaler” to OFF under MENU > INPUT SETUP > VIDEO. When the scaler is set to OFF, it will just pass through analog signals to the HDMI output at the same resolution they came in, with no processing or scaling.

For some specific reviews of the Denon’s video processing using this Faroudja implementation, please read the following two reviews of the 3808ci. The video processing section is the same as the 1909/789, except for the fact that digital video processing is available in the 3808ci and not in the 1909/789. So ignore the parts about digital video, but all of the commentary about analog video processing will apply:

Home Theater Mag: http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/...at/index2.html
CNET (scroll to the end section on Video): http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers...-32553611.html


Q: I'm afraid to buy an Onkyo because people say it runs so hot. Does the 1909/789 run hot?

A: The 1909/789 does not run very hot. AVS member Bugs has graciously tested this out for us, his results are pasted below:

Temperature

The 1909 is a relatively cool-running component. Installed in a 5.1 system, on an open shelf, with 8" of clearance on the sides and 5" of clearance on the top and back, the 1909 had a temperature rise of 26F -28F (14C - 15C) after running for 2 hours at a volume of -18dB.

For a comparison, an Onkyo TX-SR606 installed in the same system had a temperature rise of 50F - 52 F (28C - 29C) under the same conditions.

Link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14532462

Member Alan TN has also independently corroborated Bugs' results: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14412888


Q: What about power consumption?

A: Bugs has also been gracious enough to test this out with a "Kill-A-Watt" meter:

Power Consumption and Memory
There are 4 power states.

1. OFF: No power to any circuit (0 watts)
2. Standby, HDMI Control OFF: Power supplied to memory circuits (0.3 watts)
3. Standby, HDMI Control ON: Power supplied to memory and HDMI switching (30 watts)
4. ON: Power to all circuits (60 - 110 watts)

Toggle between OFF and Standby using the "ON/OFF" button.

Toggle between Standby and ON using the "ON/Standby" Button.

Toggle between "HDMI Control OFF" and "HDMI Control ON" in Menu>Manual Setup>HDMI Setup>HDMI Control. Note: setting HDMI Control to ON enables the 1909 to do an HDMI pass-through of audio and video signals when it is in Standby mode.

The memory circuits are powered in all states except OFF. The 1909 has memory back up that will retain Audyssey and other custom settings for about a week. If the 1909 is left OFF or unplugged for more than a week, you will lose any settings in memory and have to rerun Audyssey and input any personal tweaks again.



2. AUDYSSEY


Q. What is the deal with these new Audyssey features, Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ?

A. The guys who made it can explain it best. Here are links to Audyssey's explanations of the new technologies:

Audyssey Dynamic Volume:
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dynamicvolume.html

Audyssey Dynamic EQ:
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dynamicEQ.html

Note that these technologies are supplements to, not replacements for, the Audyssey MultEQ auto-calibration and room EQ system.


Q. What is Audyssey MultEQ?

A. Audyssey MultEQ is a powerful auto-setup and room calibration program which applies frequency correction to your speakers in an effort to compensate for any acoustical problems inherent to your room.

For more information, please see the Audyssey FAQ on the "official" Audyssey thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

Also, check out the Audyssey MultEQ product description at the Audyssey website:
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/index.html


Q. I ran Audyssey and my subwoofer level is strange / I ran Audyssey and my speaker levels look really funky... what gives?

A. All of these questions are common Audyssey questions and fully covered in the Audyssey FAQ:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

Feel free to simply turn down your subwoofer (either on the sub’s volume control or in the receiver’s channel level settings) if you find it’s too boomy. It won’t screw up Audyssey EQ’ing.


Q. Audyssey set my speakers to "large" and I know they should be "small", will changing this manually screw up Audyssey?

A. No, it won't hurt anything and is actually recommended in many cases. This is well covered in the Audyssey FAQ:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895


Q. Is the “Night” mode the same thing as “Dynamic Volume”?

A. No, the “Night” button on the remote is for the old-school version of “Night” mode that receivers have had for years, it is nothing more than a simple dynamic range compressor. Denon confusingly left a dedicated “Night” button on the remote, but this button does NOT have anything to do with Dynamic Volume or Audyssey at all.

If you are using the Audyssey Dynamic Volume (and you should, it is a much more sophisticated version of “Night” mode), then you should never touch the “Night” mode button.



3. GENERAL SETUP AND HDMI / VIDEO OPTIONS


Q. How the heck do I set this thing up??

A. You need to be patient, and walk through the setup menus step-by-step.

First, hook everything up, and WRITE DOWN exactly what you plugged in where, because you will have to assign all your inputs to coordinate. This isn't like the good old days where you just plugged the "TV" audio into the plug called "TV" and called it a day.


Once you have everything plugged in and you are ready to go, think of it as a three step process:

STEP 1. Set up all of your basic speaker parameters (size, distance, level, etc) -- this can be accomplished either through the AUTO SETUP menu (letting Audyssey do it), or manually in the MANUAL SETUP menu under SPEAKER SETUP.

STEP 2. Set up all of the basic options for video output, Zone 2, etc. -- these are all in the MANUAL SETUP menu, after SPEAKER SETUP (see page 29 of the manual). See the next FAQ question for info on HDMI settings.

STEP 3. Set up your specific input assignments and other input-specific settings (like renaming the “HDP” input to say “PS3” for example). This is accomplished in the INPUT SETUP menu (see page 38 of the manual).


For a more detailed explanation, refer to this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14445722


The other two main menu areas, PARAMETER and INFORMATION, are not used when setting up the receiver.

The PARAMETER menu is for adjusting specific sound parameters depending on the surround mode you are in (see page 46 of the manual). Note that not all parameters will be available all the time, this menu changes depending on what surround mode you are currently in (e.g. Dolby Digital vs. Stereo vs. DTS-MA etc.). Pages 76-77 of the manual detail which parameters are adjustable according to which surround mode you are using.

The INFORMATION menu is, you guessed it, just to get information about various things going on in your receiver (see page 52 of the manual).


Q. What should I do with all of these HDMI settings? I don’t know what any of them mean?

A. In general, with a typical home setup you can leave these all on their default settings and things should work, as long as you have correctly assigned all of your inputs. By default, the Denon has video conversion enabled, and is set up properly for an HDMI connection between receiver and processor.

The only reason to change any of the HDMI settings is if you have an atypical setup – like a HDMI/DVI connection to your TV – or if you want to specifically disable the video conversion and processing for some reason.

General HDMI settings can be found under MANUAL SETUP > HDMI SETUP.

A brief explanation of the options:

1. COLOR SPACE: In general, just leave this on default (YCbCr) unless you are using an HDMI/DVI connection or an HTPC or something where you specifically need RGB color.

2. RGB RANGE: Leave this alone (NORMAL) unless you switch to RGB in COLOR SPACE.

3. AUTO LIPSYNC: Will only do anything if you have a compatible HDMI 1.3 display. You can just leave this on default (ON) unless you have problems.

4. HDMI AUDIO OUT: This selects whether HDMI audio is “stripped” from the signal to be played on your surround sound speakers, or whether you want the HDMI audio passed through to your TV. Leave it on the default setting (AMP) unless you specifically want to use your TV speakers.

5. HDMI CONTROL and 6. POWER OFF CONTROL: These settings, like Auto Lipsync, require compatible HDMI components. For more information, see page 62 of the manual and the HDMI Control question, below.


Q. How do I set up the video processing so that everything works right and I can just connect one HDMI cable to the TV?

A. In addition to these general settings, you can also set up the specific video processor settings independently by input. This is done in the INPUT SETUP under VIDEO.

By default, the Denon AVR 1909/789 is set up to output everything to your TV via an HDMI cable, and will scale all analog sources automatically to the highest HDMI resolution your TV accepts. If all you want to do is plug everything in and run one HDMI cable to your TV, then DON’T CHANGE ANY SETTINGS and it should work fine as long as you have assigned all of your inputs correctly in MANUAL SETUP > ASSIGN.


Q. HDMI Control? I can watch TV when the Denon is off? Wow, really??

A. The HDMI Control function allows you to "pass through" the HDMI signal from device to your TV, even when the Denon is in "Standby" mode. You cannot change inputs while utilizing this feature, so make sure to switch the input to the one you want before powering down to Standby.

Bugs has yoeman's work getting to the bottom of this feature. For detailed discussion and explanation, please see this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14443246



4. PLAYBACK AND SURROUND MODES


Q. Why isn't the Dolby TrueHD / DTS-MA light turning on when I play a Blu Ray on my PS3?? I set up everything correctly but all is says is "MULTICH IN". What the heck does that mean?

A. The PS3 cannot bitstream the new hi-definition audio codecs: Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD and DTS-MA. You will NEVER EVER see the "Dolby TrueHD" or "DTS-MA" light up on the receiver when using a PS3 as your only Blu Ray player.

In order to hear these new codecs from the PS3, the PS3 must decode them internally and output them as Multichannel PCM (also sometimes referred to as MPCM or LPCM). Make sure that you change your PS3 audio settings to enable multichannel PCM output (please refer to the PS3's instructions or the PS3 sections of AVSForum for specific questions on the PS3).

Please refer to the PS3 FAQ, and scroll down to the “AUDIO SETTINGS” section:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058533


If you have set everything up correctly, the Denon display will light up as "MULTICH IN", indicating that you are receiving multichannel PCM. If you hit "Status" on the Denon, the display should say something like "PCM 48kHz 3/2/.1" indicating that you are receiving 5.1 channel PCM (3 fronts / 2 surrounds / .1 LFE track).

You can also check the info on the PS3 to verify that it is outputting the correct soundtrack. Note that sometimes a Blu Ray will default to the standard DD/DTS track, so you might have to manually select the TrueHD/DTS-MA soundtrack.

If you want to disable the tone controls and any processing, you can hit the "DIRECT" button on the Denon remote, and the display will now read "MULTICH DIRECT". This is exactly analagous to the "DIRECT" vs "STEREO" modes for listening to 2-channel music, like that from a CD. You can still enable Audyssey EQ'ing when listening in "MULTICH DIRECT" mode, but all other processing options (like tone control) are disabled.

For more information, please study the AVR FAQ stickied at the top of the forum, especially the sections on "What do the terms bitstream, PCM and MPCM mean?" and "What do I need to enjoy lossless audio?"

Link to AVR FAQ: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=968859


Q. Okay, so how do I get the "Dolby TrueHD" light to come on?? I love me some lights!

A. You need to buy a Blu Ray player which can "bitstream" the new audio codecs. Please refer to the AVR FAQ for more information:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=968859

Please note that THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE in sound quality when bitstreaming hi-res audio. The only difference is where the lossless audio is "unpacked."

Think of it like a zipped computer file that you email to your friend as an attachment. Regardless of whether you unzip it first and then attach it to the email, or you attach the zipped file and let your friend unzip it, the end result is IDENTICAL.


Q. What is the best surround mode to use?

A. Ultimately, only you can decide, but here are some pointers. A lot will depend on what type of sound you are receiving, and how many speakers you have (5.1, 7.1, etc.)

There is a giant, daunting table on page 78-79 describing exactly what surround modes are available depending on the source signal. To check what signal you are receiving, you can hit the “STATUS” button on the receiver to cycle through all the info, or you can go to MENU > INFORMATION > AUDIO INPUT SIGNAL.

You can also look at the little lights on the display – the lit up boxes on the left side of the display tell you how many audio channels you are receiving from the input source (for example, if only two boxes on the left are lit up, you are getting a 2-channel source). The boxes on the right of the display tell you how many channels are being output to the speakers.

If you have AUTO SURROUND enabled in the setup (see page 33 of the manual), the 1909/789 will memorize your settings and default to the last one you picked when it sees the same source signal again.

Note that this is memorized BY INPUT, so for example you can have different “default” settings when listening to 2-channel music on the “CD” input versus 2-channel television on the “TV/CBL” input.

To check what your Auto Surround defaults are, hit MENU, go to INFORMATION, and then select AUTO SURROUND MODE (see page 53 of the manual). It will tell you what the default surround mode is for that input, depending on the input signal type.


Here is a brief summary of different surround modes. Remember, the important thing to know is what type of signal the Denon is receiving:


1. IF YOU ARE RECEIVING A TWO-CHANNEL SOURCE:

To listen to 2-channel as 2-channel, your choices are STEREO, DIRECT, and PURE DIRECT (see pages 45-46 of the manual).

Using either DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode will disable all bass management, which means that your front L/R speakers will get a full-range signal, and if the subwoofer is ON it will “double up” the bass from the mains.

The only “bass management” available in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT modes is the SUBWOOFER ON/OFF option in the PARAMETERS menu. If you have small front speakers that can’t handle bass, just use the STEREO mode for 2-channel music to preserve all of your bass management settings.

Also, please note that if you select PURE DIRECT, the display and video output will be shut off. This is the way it is supposed to function, so don’t freak out if the display shuts off when you hit “PURE DIRECT”.

To matrix 2-channel sound to multichannel sound, you have your choice of DOLBY PRO LOGIC II or DTS NEO:6. Hit the “Standard” button to cycle between the two, or you can hit the “Cinema” or “Music” button to directly engage the specific Cinema/Music modes. You also can tweak them independently using the PARAMETERS menu. See page 74 of the manual, as well as the AVR FAQ, for explanations of the differences.

Alternately, you can choose one of Denon’s proprietary DSP modes. As with most DSP, pretty much all of these suck, the only possible exception being the 5/7 CHANNEL STEREO mode. This mode will output unprocessed stereo sound equally from all your speakers, and can be a great choice for stereo music, especially if you just want background music at a party or something.


2. IF YOU ARE RECEIVING A MULTICHANNEL DOLBY DIGITAL / DTS SOURCE:

If the Input Mode is set to “Auto”, the receiver should default to the correct decoding mode depending on the input signal.

If you are running a 7.1 setup, you can matrix 5.1 surround sound up to 7.1 by using DOLBY PRO LOGIC IIx. You can engage this by hitting the “Standard” button on the remote, or by using the “Music” or “Cinema” button as above. The display will read something like “DOLBY DIGITAL + PLIIx CINEMA” or “DTS + PLIIx CINEMA”.


3. IF YOU ARE RECEIVING MULTICHANNEL PCM FROM A BLU RAY:

The default setting is MULTI CH IN. If you have a 7.1 setup, it will probably default to “MULTI IN + PLIIx CINEMA”, which will matrix a 5.1 signal to 7.1.

You can also engage the DIRECT and PURE DIRECT modes when listening to multichannel PCM, which will shut off the tone controls, bass management, and any unneeded processing. If you have small speakers that can’t handle a full-range signal, remember that engaging MULTI CH DIRECT mode will effectively treat all speakers as “large”.

Also, remember that “PURE DIRECT” will turn off all video, so do not use this while watching a movie unless you just want to stare at a black screen while listening to the soundtrack! The MULTI CH PURE DIRECT mode is really only useful for listening to multichannel music (SACD or DVD-A) decoded by an external player and sent as multichannel PCM over HDMI.
HDMI_13 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11392 Old 07-17-2008, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
HDMI_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Dynamic volume : It is as good as Audyssey claims.

Initially when one switch on the dynamic volume , by default it was set to Midnight. So it took me little while to figure it out why the sound was little subtle.

Later I changed it to Day and every thing started sounding wonderfully.

There is one Kids program in comcast ondemad which has lots of volume up and downs , I wathched it through the Dynamic volume on and I haven't noticed any up and downs.

Tested with higher commercial volumes, changing the channels from HD to regular source etc.. to see how it functions. It is working as advertised.

But do keep in mind that when you go from DD (5.1) to two channel source (like a different channel or commercial) one moment you are immersed in surround sound and suddenly you have two channel audio so it will take little bit of time for humans to adjust. But in these situation also I see dynamic volume working hard to keep it real. Which is nice.

Hope down the road broadcasters will adopt to a standard , so that atleast the sound format remains the same. But for time being we are blessed with Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.


One more good news about denon over onkyo.

my onkyo shuts off Audyssey processing when the input signal is above 48khz.

Denon do not have that limitation , I tested it with SACD (176.2khz ) and it went through the audyssey processing with out any issues.

No clicking noise in denon when the input signal changed. No more annoying clicking noise when watching TV programs (Dolby Digitial program to two channel commercial and vice versa)

Pure Direct Mode - you have a choice to use Audyssey or not with it. Pure mode what it does is - it shuts off all other internal processing to the signal - but if you enable EQ - it lets the signal to go through the Audyssey Room EQ. So that way sound is delivered as it is and it is custom tailred to your room EQ. Wonderful feature. This is really good for pure audio enthusiast. Thank you Denon team for designing this wonderful feature. Or should I say thanks to SHARC Melody Platform designers

And not so good news for the people who want up scaling for hdmi sources. It is passing it through as it is .

But good news on the video processing side is - it not adding any side affects to the video. Which is very good. Signal is sent as it is . No pixel cropping or sharpness boost etc


Only complaint is remote control. For setup I have to flip to the reverside of the remote and keep the remote door open while doing the setups.
But seems like this is already a known issue.

When you have Dynamic EQ and Volume enabled - first time I felt like immersed in to the surround sound at a volume that is comfortable to listen.
I watched a baseball in Fox network (channel 2) for about 10mins. It was like I was there in the stadium. I have to give some credit to the Fox guys here. They are mixing the crowd response very nicely.

With Dynamic EQ and volume enabled you can hear the crowd very clearly and felt like I am sitting in the stadium with the crowd. I couldn't get this out of my head. What a experience !

------------------------
Temperature : Temperature is not high compared to onkyo. In this category we can't call Denon a HOT product

Front panel shows a pictorial representation of input signal's no.of channels and also out put channels. Very userful.

Renaming the source name: this is also very cool feature. I renamed them to reflect the names of my gear. So it is easy to look at the display what is the source it is on. ( I have toshiba HD-A1, Poineer DVD/SACD plyer, Sony PS3, Comcast , TV out put etc)
shraky likes this.
HDMI_13 is offline  
post #3 of 11392 Old 07-17-2008, 05:52 PM
Senior Member
 
geodon005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mt. Prospect, IL
Posts: 235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
HDMI_13:

What kind of receiver had you dealt with in the past? I am really thinking of pulling the trigger on on the 1909, and I am wondering if you think I would notice much difference going from my Yamaha RX-V1400's 115 watts down to the Denon's 90.
geodon005 is offline  
post #4 of 11392 Old 07-17-2008, 06:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
kulims's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
kulims is offline  
post #5 of 11392 Old 07-17-2008, 06:24 PM
Member
 
ciner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 176
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Disappointed no volume overlay on HDMI sources, guessing you have to go to the 2309? Course we have no info on the 2309 yet
ciner is offline  
post #6 of 11392 Old 07-17-2008, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
HDMI_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by geodon005 View Post

HDMI_13:

What kind of receiver had you dealt with in the past? I am really thinking of pulling the trigger on on the 1909, and I am wondering if you think I would notice much difference going from my Yamaha RX-V1400's 115 watts down to the Denon's 90.

In the past I have used onkyo 606 and onkyo 500.

Well 115 to 90 - I don't think you will hear much of a difference volume wise, especially after these systems are calibrated to your room EQ.


I will give some info on why I went with Denon 1909.

Few years ago I came to know about room equalization and importance of it.

For typical home environment , what ever the gear you have , one should perform proper room equalization to get most out of your audio gear. It doesn't matter the speakers or receiver. Room EQ is the one makes them sound good.
** about above comment on speakers and receiver- well it does matter what gear you have but with out proper equalization they are of no good use.

Now I started researching into the various room equalization technics and technologies that exists.

After reading several research papers and reviews and hearing some audio equipment with different kind's of room EQs technologies built into - I finally short listed to Audyssey to fit my needs .

My must and should have requirement in a AV receiver is - Audyssey.

With that - I boiled down to two AV manufactures who uses Audyssey in thier gear.

Onkyo and Denon.

When I first head Audyssey 2EQ in my room that came with Onkyo 606 I was blown away. This receiver is having Dynamic EQ as well.

All of my family members are also equally imppressed with it and expressed thier support and grattitude towards audyssey labs processing after hearing it with dynamic EQ. Volume is at comfortable level and we can hear everything that is present in the audio signal.

So, I become a big fan of Audyssey. I did researched other products room equalizations , but based on the knowledge that I have gained after reading and doing my own research I felt personally Audyssey room EQ is the best fit to my taste.

Few months ago - Audyssey Labs came up with Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

Dynamic EQ - One should hear the sound with this option enabled to believe it how well this works. It is practially impossibe at home to hear at reference level all the time. This is a excellent feature.

Dynamic Volume - This is one my dream features. I have been waiting for such feature since last 10 years. Finally it is here.

Apart the above , I also been waiting for a receiver that will process all the new HD codec's and hdmi switching etc.

When I first came to know about the new Denon line up I was very excited and haven't wasted any time and with out a second thought I bought the denon AVR-1909 . Full retail price.
HDMI_13 is offline  
post #7 of 11392 Old 07-17-2008, 06:45 PM
Senior Member
 
geodon005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mt. Prospect, IL
Posts: 235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for your input. I, too, have been "sold" on how good Audyssey is, and their Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume are precisely why I am looking at this unit.
geodon005 is offline  
post #8 of 11392 Old 07-17-2008, 08:22 PM
Member
 
jochexum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Any idea when the 1909 will be on best buy's website? Went to the one here (baton rouge) and they don't even carry denon instore (even though they have a magnolia room).
jochexum is offline  
post #9 of 11392 Old 07-17-2008, 11:17 PM
Member
 
Alan TN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If anyone has a watt meter, I would like to know what the power consumption is with minimum amplification and no signal on the 1909.

My interest not only relates to heat in an enclosed cabinet but how much electricity it uses. I have a solar-powered home and so am interested in minimizing power consumption.
Alan TN is offline  
post #10 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 12:02 AM
Senior Member
 
sanhacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciner View Post

Disappointed no volume overlay on HDMI sources, guessing you have to go to the 2309? Course we have no info on the 2309 yet

Can you help me understand what "volume overlay" is from HDMI sources ??

i.e. is this related to "Dynamic Volume" or something else. Thanks.

- John
sanhacker is offline  
post #11 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 07:16 AM
Senior Member
 
bdrex28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulims View Post

Volume overlay is the volume bar being displayed on your TV/monitor (when you change volume level up or down) on top of the picture/program you are viewing. Apparently it works only on non HDMI inputs and has nothing to do with audessey dynamic volume.

I've never understood why people need the volume level on the OSD. I mean, don't you decide by what you hear not what you see anyway?
bdrex28 is offline  
post #12 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 07:16 AM
Senior Member
 
nagyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I wonder what the 2nd remote is needed for: It cannot be used from a 2nd room because it is IR and not RF ...
nagyg is offline  
post #13 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 07:33 AM
Senior Member
 
datgai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdrex28 View Post

I've never understood why people need the volume level on the OSD. I mean, don't you decide by what you hear not what you see anyway?

Agreed. It can also degrade the video quality
datgai is offline  
post #14 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 07:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
sterryo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagyg View Post

I wonder what the 2nd remote is needed for: It cannot be used from a 2nd room because it is IR and not RF ...

Best reason I can think of is that when the main remote is misplaced, you'll have a backup. If you have kids you realize how valuable that can be....
sterryo is offline  
post #15 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 08:16 AM
Senior Member
 
Bugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_13 View Post

In the past I have used onkyo 606

HDMI_13, thanks for starting this thread. Is Audyssey Dymanic Volume the only reason you switched from the 606 to the 1909? I also had the 606, but returned it due to the hum/buzz it produced under certain conditions.

To have a better understanding of your system, please tell us: your inputs to the 1909, the display you are using and your speaker setup.

The biggest problem for me with the 606 was my PS3 set to 1080P LPCM output over HDMI. Other people had problems various 1080P sources connceted via HDMI. If you have any 1080P sources connected via HDMI, I would appreciate it if you would check them out with no signal at max volume to see if the 1909 has any hum/buzz issues. Thanks.

One more question: do you have the USA version of the 1909?
Bugs is offline  
post #16 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 08:39 AM
Senior Member
 
nagyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterryo View Post

Best reason I can think of is that when the main remote is misplaced, you'll have a backup. If you have kids you realize how valuable that can be....

No kids, but plenty of remotes: PS3, JVC-RS1, Cable Box and a Harmony (which I cannot get used to, so I only control the volume of my AVR with it) ...
nagyg is offline  
post #17 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 08:42 AM
Member
 
ryaneverett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is this available anywhere? It's still coming soon at most online stores...
ryaneverett is offline  
post #18 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 09:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
Amel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Clearwater Fl
Posts: 635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
thanks for the thread

will keep watching it

Blu-Ray Supporter
Amel is offline  
post #19 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 09:20 AM
Senior Member
 
templetun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Called bestbuy. Have them look up the unit in the program called RSS. DC units on hand will tell you how many they have in the warehouse. Lady said she was unable to get it customer fullfilled tho. Maybe within a week or 2.
templetun is offline  
post #20 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
 
geodon005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mt. Prospect, IL
Posts: 235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
1st Post: If anyone is still looking to buy the 1909 there is a local store by me that has 7 of them in stock. Their website is stopattheshop.com

They are a smaller mom-pop shop so if you want to order your going to have to call them and work it out with them. 585-424-1820

Reply to 1st Post: As of 11:00 AM Central Time on 7/18, they still had 6 1909s left in stock; price is $599. Shipping to Chicago from Rochester, NY, would be about $20. Only catch is that they will NOT allow credit card purchases over the phone; you have to mail them a check.
geodon005 is offline  
post #21 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 11:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
kulims's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
HDMI_I3, how long did it took audessey to complete an auto setup ? TIA
kulims is offline  
post #22 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 11:37 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 25,122
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1214 Post(s)
Liked: 1618
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciner View Post

Disappointed no volume overlay on HDMI sources, guessing you have to go to the 2309? Course we have no info on the 2309 yet

I doubt the 2309 will have this either. I don't know of any sub-$1000 receivers that will overlay volume on HD sources, as that requires them to process the video somewhat. Pretty much all recent Denons that I know of will overlay volume on analog SD signals transcoded to HDMI output, but that's it.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #23 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
HDMI_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulims View Post

HDMI_I3, how long did it took audessey to complete an auto setup ? TIA

Around 30 mins for all 6 measurements. my setup is 5.1

If you have 7.1 you can add 5 to 10mins extra.

btw, I did the setup during midnight and no ambient noise present during my setup.
HDMI_13 is offline  
post #24 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 12:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Bugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I doubt the 2309 will have this either. I don't know of any sub-$1000 receivers that will overlay volume on HD sources, as that requires them to process the video somewhat. Pretty much all recent Denons that I know of will overlay volume on analog SD signals transcoded to HDMI output, but that's it.

FWIW, when I had the Onkyo 606, I found that there was a way to get the volume level OSD with an HDMI source. You had to set 'TV Control' to 'Enable'. This activated CEC and allowed a signal from my LN-52A750 to turn the 606 on and off. I know the 1909 has a version of CEC, but perhaps it doesn't support HDMI OSD.
Bugs is offline  
post #25 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 12:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wrinklefree's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs View Post

FWIW, when I had the Onkyo 606, I found that there was a way to get the volume level OSD with an HDMI source. You had to set 'TV Control' to 'Enable'. This activated CEC and allowed a signal from my LN-52A750 to turn the 606 on and off. I know the 1909 has a version of CEC, but perhaps it doesn't support HDMI OSD.

This worked for me as well, except its off by 10.
wrinklefree is offline  
post #26 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 12:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Cal1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jochexum View Post

Any idea when the 1909 will be on best buy's website? Went to the one here (baton rouge) and they don't even carry denon instore (even though they have a magnolia room).

I'm a current and soon to be former Onkyo 606 owner. My unit has the infamous buzzing noise so back it goes. Since I really like the Audyssey system and Denon is the only other AV company using it the 1909 looked very attractive. I called one of the Magnolia showrooms in my area (SF Bay Area in CA) and they have a formal launch date of 7/26 but the receivers are in the warehouse and they are trying to get one tomorrow on a "pre-order". BB also has a 10% coupon right now so that took it down to a very reasonable cost.
Cal1981 is online now  
post #27 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 12:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Markz2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I doubt the 2309 will have this either. I don't know of any sub-$1000 receivers that will overlay volume on HD sources, as that requires them to process the video somewhat. Pretty much all recent Denons that I know of will overlay volume on analog SD signals transcoded to HDMI output, but that's it.

The HK 254/354 can overlay OSD info over HDMI. It's helpful to select surround modes from an OSD. I'm trying a 254 now. It has pre-outs, too. I have a PS3 connected via HDMI.
Markz2k is offline  
post #28 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 01:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 25,122
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1214 Post(s)
Liked: 1618
really? that's pretty cool! anyway, we should stick to the 1909...

EDIT: shouldn't the title of the thread include the 789 as well? the 1909 and 789 are identical and few questions come up in Denon threads more frequently than, "what is the difference between the XXX and XXXX? they have different model numbers but they look like they have identical specs and features?"

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #29 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 01:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jack Gilvey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Jersey,USA
Posts: 6,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markz2k View Post

The HK 254/354 can overlay OSD info over HDMI. It's helpful to select surround modes from an OSD. I'm trying a 254 now. It has pre-outs, too. I have a PS3 connected via HDMI.

As far as I can tell, it's only real-time volume adjustments that don't get displayed over HDMI with the 1909, everything else does. Anyone clarify?

Jack Gilvey
SVS Customer Service

Jack Gilvey is offline  
post #30 of 11392 Old 07-18-2008, 02:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Bugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

EDIT: shouldn't the title of the thread include the 789 as well? the 1909 and 789 are identical and few questions come up in Denon threads more frequently than, "what is the difference between the XXX and XXXX? they have different model numbers but they look like they have identical specs and features?"

OK, I'll bite. I'm not familar with Denon's numbering system and I've been wondering what the difference is between the two. Can someone enlighten me?
Bugs is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 789 630 Watt 7 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off