Crossover Settings - AVS Forum

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Receivers, Amps, and Processors

NismoZ's Avatar NismoZ
03:40 PM Liked: 11
post #1 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 898
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I am trying to get my head wrapped around crossover settings. Setting x-over at 80hz, I understand this is a roll off point for all frequencys on your 7.1 speakers. Some will play below that point, but at a lower vol.

What I am trying to get is setting speakers for Large or Small, while still having an 80hz crossover. Is setting a speaker to small, like effectively setting that x-over to 100 or 120hz?

Thats probably wrong, becuase wouldn't speaker size settings and x-over settings basically be the same thing?
Jakeman02's Avatar Jakeman02
04:04 PM Liked: 13
post #2 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 6,463
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Unless you have large tower speakers set all your speakers to small.

Setting them to small will direct the information below the crossover point to the sub.
This takes a load off your receivers amps from reproducing the lower frequencies and directs it toward the subs amps.

Where your crossover needs to be set will depend on your speakers. What speakers do you have?

You're correct about the slope. Most are 12 db per octave which means if your crossover is set to 80 the low frequency info sent to your speakers will be down -12db at 160. This is to get a seemless integration between your speakers and sub.
MichaelJHuman's Avatar MichaelJHuman
04:12 PM Liked: 125
post #3 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 18,999
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoZ View Post

I am trying to get my head wrapped around crossover settings. Setting x-over at 80hz, I understand this is a roll off point for all frequencys on your 7.1 speakers. Some will play below that point, but at a lower vol.

What I am trying to get is setting speakers for Large or Small, while still having an 80hz crossover. Is setting a speaker to small, like effectively setting that x-over to 100 or 120hz?

Thats probably wrong, becuase wouldn't speaker size settings and x-over settings basically be the same thing?

Large means that the crossover won't be applied to those speakers which are set to large.

If your speakers are truely full range, say close to 30hz, you can try setting them to large.

There is an advantage to sending low frequencies to a powered sub though, as it takes a bit of the load off the receiver's power supply. Using large speaker setting won't take as much advantage of your powered sub.
fez1's Avatar fez1
04:27 PM Liked: 10
post #4 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 11
Joined: Jul 2008
I have a similar question and I posted on the HK 247 thread but i didn't get an answer.

I'm just using 2 speakers right now and I'm trying to figure out what I should set the crossover to. I'm using two bookshelves (B&W 685s) and their frequency range is 45Hz. Should I set the crossover to 40Hz or 60? I don't have a sub atm. Should I set them to large or small?
MichaelJHuman's Avatar MichaelJHuman
04:48 PM Liked: 125
post #5 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 18,999
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You should set your L/R speakers to large, at least. Because with no sub, you would otherwise lose low frequencies.

You may be able to set other speakers to small and have the bass sent to the mains.

I would of course, suggest trying to get a deal on a decent powered sub as it likely will make a big difference in your setup.

I don't know what your budget is, but look at the kits from Part's Express
fez1's Avatar fez1
04:59 PM Liked: 10
post #6 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 11
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Thanks for the reply. Yeah i'm planning on buying a sub soon. I don't have one yet because I'm living in an apartment
M Code's Avatar M Code
05:25 PM Liked: 153
post #7 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 10,031
Joined: Mar 2003
Within the Bass Manager..
If you have only 1 pair of bookshelf loudspeakers connected but no subwoofer, then by selecting the proper loudspeaker combo the Bass Manager will automatically steer the signals properly. For example, you are playing a Dolby Digital 5.1 DVD movie and the loudspeakers are set to:

Front L/R: Large
Center: Off
L/R Surrounds: Off
Subwoofer: Off

Now the Bass Manger will create a 2-channel downmix , the Center channel info will be steered 50% to the Front L and 50% to the Front Right. Same for the L/R Surround info sent to the Front L & R, and the LFE track (low frequencies) will be sent 50% to the Front L and 50% to the Front Right.
In the end , the soundfield will be smaller as there are only 2 loudspeakers but at least you will get all of the original sound information.

Just my $0.045..
fez1's Avatar fez1
05:46 PM Liked: 10
post #8 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 11
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thanks a lot for the help! that really helped me understand
sivadselim's Avatar sivadselim
05:50 PM Liked: 69
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You can set the fronts to LARGE and the crossover setting will still be applied if you use a BOTH or LFE PLUS or other similar setting that sends redundant front channel bass to the subwoofer. The frequencies duplicated at the subwoofer in this case are dictated by the crossover setting. But this setting (BOTH, LFE PLUS, or whatever your receiver calls it) should not really be used except in special circumstances.
IrishLegend's Avatar IrishLegend
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07-27-2008 | Posts: 539
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I have a Harman Kardon AVR 354 powering a Polk CS-1 center, Polk Monitor 60's as fronts, in-ceiling 8" speakers as surrounds and a Velodyne 12 inch sub.
What should my crossovers be set at?

I appreciate the help.
sivadselim's Avatar sivadselim
06:06 PM Liked: 69
post #11 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 16,086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishLegend View Post

I have a Harman Kardon AVR 354 powering a Polk CS-1 center, Polk Monitor 60's as fronts, in-ceiling 8" speakers as surrounds and a Velodyne 12 inch sub.
What should my crossovers be set at?

I appreciate the help.

Provide us links to the speakers so we don't have to search for them ourselves. I assume by your question that your HK allows different crossover settings for each speaker or speaker set, correct?
NismoZ's Avatar NismoZ
06:24 PM Liked: 11
post #12 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 898
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I have the PB13 Ultra and JBL S312-II floor speakers and Scenter-II for the front stage. The Floor standings are big enough for me to put Large, but I've always had them set to small...
IrishLegend's Avatar IrishLegend
06:28 PM Liked: 10
post #13 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Provide us links to the speakers so we don't have to search for them ourselves. I assume by your question that your HK allows different crossover settings for each speaker or speaker set, correct?

Yes, the HK allows different crossover settings for each speaker set.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...ing/monitor60/
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/center/cs1/
http://www.velodyne.com/products/pro...0&sid=193l443n
http://www.bose.com/controller?event...nvisible_index

Thanks.
sivadselim's Avatar sivadselim
06:53 PM Liked: 69
post #14 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 16,086
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Monitor 60s: -3dB point = 48Hz........ use an 80Hz crossover, maybe 60Hz
CS1: -3dB point = 65Hz......... use an 80Hz crossover, maybe 100Hz
Bose 191s: -3dB point = good luck finding this probably need a high crossover setting; 120Hz if not higher

80Hz is a very commonly used crossover setting. Even if speakers can go a bit lower than that, there are benefits to running a higher crossover. 80Hz is very generally considered the point at which bass becomes localizable, so it is best to keep any frequencies higher than that out of the sub so that it doesn't draw attention to itself.

As far as the in-ceilings are concerned, you may want to also use an 80Hz crossover with them and accept a "hole" in the frequencies above 80Hz but below those speakers' capabilities. That's what I would probably do with them, anyway. Otherwise, some of the rerouted bass from the rear channels may be localizable to the sub which wouldn't be so good especially if the sub is in the front of the room.

There are also (arguable) reasons for using the same crossover setting for all the speakers. So, if I were you, I would set all the crossovers to 80Hz.
sivadselim's Avatar sivadselim
08:09 PM Liked: 69
post #15 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 16,086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

Most are 12 db per octave which means if your crossover is set to 80 the low frequency info sent to your speakers will be down -12db at 160.

Down 12dB @ 40Hz.

The frequencies sent to the sub will be down 12dB @ 160Hz (if the low-pass filter has the same 12dB/octave slope).
gunbunnysoulja's Avatar gunbunnysoulja
08:14 PM Liked: 11
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07-27-2008 | Posts: 2,915
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I use to set my (capable) speakers to large until I read the following and actually compared the sq difference:

There are three main reasons for avoiding the "large" setting.

The first is that crossovers aren't brick walls; they have slopes in both directions. The rule of thumb is that with typical bass management crossovers, your speaker should be flat to 1 octave below the crossover point. So, with an 80-Hz crossover point, your speaker should be flat to 40 Hz. Lots of speakers can do this. Only a few speakers are flat to 30 Hz (even though manufacturers' specs will try to tell you otherwise, there really are only a few, at least within a reasonable price range), and even fewer speakers are flat to 20 Hz (and below) at the levels a home theater will be asking for. The large setting on a receiver doesn't filter any low frequencies from a speaker to the sub. If the speaker isn't capable of the really low frequencies, they simply will be lost. Set to "small," however, these low frequencies will be filtered out and passed to the subwoofer, which is capable of reproducing them.

The second reason for using the "small" setting is that when you relieve a speaker of low bass duties, that speaker becomes a much easier load for your amp, and the midrange quality of the speaker often improves.

The third reason for using the "small" setting is that bass frequencies have the greatest interaction problems with a room. Multiple sources of low bass in non-optimal places cause all sorts of sound wave problems. The best place for your main speakers is almost never the best place from which to produce low bass. Being able to produce all the bass from one spot in the room gives you the best chance of optimizing your room's bass response.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...79/128214.html

With the NuForce AVP16, Emotiva XPA-5, and (Jim Holtz Design) Statement speakers, IMO the sq is much better with a setting of small.

Bass gets redirected to a (15") Tempest-X fed by a Bash 500 in a 7 cu. ft. sealed box.
IrishLegend's Avatar IrishLegend
08:29 PM Liked: 10
post #17 of 17
07-27-2008 | Posts: 539
Joined: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbunnysoulja View Post

I use to set my (capable) speakers to large until I read the following and actually compared the sq difference:

There are three main reasons for avoiding the "large" setting.

The first is that crossovers aren't brick walls; they have slopes in both directions. The rule of thumb is that with typical bass management crossovers, your speaker should be flat to 1 octave below the crossover point. So, with an 80-Hz crossover point, your speaker should be flat to 40 Hz. Lots of speakers can do this. Only a few speakers are flat to 30 Hz (even though manufacturers' specs will try to tell you otherwise, there really are only a few, at least within a reasonable price range), and even fewer speakers are flat to 20 Hz (and below) at the levels a home theater will be asking for. The large setting on a receiver doesn't filter any low frequencies from a speaker to the sub. If the speaker isn't capable of the really low frequencies, they simply will be lost. Set to "small," however, these low frequencies will be filtered out and passed to the subwoofer, which is capable of reproducing them.

The second reason for using the "small" setting is that when you relieve a speaker of low bass duties, that speaker becomes a much easier load for your amp, and the midrange quality of the speaker often improves.

The third reason for using the "small" setting is that bass frequencies have the greatest interaction problems with a room. Multiple sources of low bass in non-optimal places cause all sorts of sound wave problems. The best place for your main speakers is almost never the best place from which to produce low bass. Being able to produce all the bass from one spot in the room gives you the best chance of optimizing your room's bass response.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...79/128214.html

With the NuForce AVP16, Emotiva XPA-5, and (Jim Holtz Design) Statement speakers, IMO the sq is much better with a setting of small.

Bass gets redirected to a (15") Tempest-X fed by a Bash 500 in a 7 cu. ft. sealed box.

I noticed the last sentence in bold in the link you provided.

"Set all your speakers to an 80-Hz crossover, and let your sub and speakers do what they do best."
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