Official Harman/Kardon AVR x54: Problems and Solutions Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Deron-X View Post

Yep, fully aware, and every line is but a mere shadow of where each division once was. Couple that with the times and I don't even have to look at the bottom line. Sad but true.

Then I don't really get why would you see any sign of HK folding anytime soon...
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post #182 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 06:26 AM
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While I fully agre with you, your last sentence made my morning - you're aware of the size of their portfolio, right?

Yep, fully aware, and every line is but a mere shadow of where each division once was. Couple that with the times and I don't even have to look at the bottom line. Sad but true.

I'm no financial genius, but dude they're in a definitive nosedive...perhaps a clear indication as to why they're selling crap at the moment? Looks like over a 100% loss in value over this time last year...and yep, I wouldn't wish that in anyones portfolio.

http://www.harman.com/investor_information/default.aspx
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post #183 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 06:27 AM
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Then I don't really get why would you see any sign of HK folding anytime soon...

What does this tell you?

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post #184 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 06:34 AM
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I never understood this - sorry - 'idiocy: what relevance any old MSRP has today? Exactly, zero.
Current price vs features and sound, they matter, nothing else.

If you are really into old MSRPs I have some stuff from the 90s to sell you - it will be VERY CHEAP, FRACTION of its originally VERY HIGH MSRP...

I bow to your unquestionable authority and knowledge. LOL

If you bothered to actually look, you'd see BB and most others are is still selling it for 1K. It also looks to be (minus one hdmi) a relatively superior receiver to the 1909 for my needs.

Thanks for the sarcasm.
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post #185 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 06:44 AM
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What does this tell you?

Not to buy Harmon stock. Too heavy % sales to 1 customer (25% to Chrysler) in 2007. Nowhere to go but down with this mix.
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post #186 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 08:27 AM
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I'm very disheartened by the problems w/my 354. I had expected the somewhat newer video chip to perform better.
Instead, it really does degrade the quality of SD. It has a modest effect on HD, and it helps some games quite a bit. I can't believe that it really does degrade SD quality, though. I had hoped for some at least marginal improvement w/our WII and SD programs; but no go.

Very disappointed with this.
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post #187 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 08:29 AM
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So far, we are high on problems, with almost zero solutions. Not a good record. HK, please get off you a** and fix this. Give us some hope that you are still a reputable company!
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post #188 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by M Code View Post

What firmware version is in the PS 3?

I'm at work now and don't recall the version but it's up to date.
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post #189 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 09:50 AM
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PS3 GAMES

I tried out 5 games last night on my PS3 and all of them had issues.
  1. Madden 09 - Worked fine for a while and after I paused the game and started again it sounded like the game was in a cave.
  2. MLB 08: The Show - This game worked fine as it appears a constant signal was being sent to the receiver. That is until I exited the game and when I returned to the main menu I was now back to only 2 channel audio in Logic 7(Madden did this as well).
  3. Top Spin 3- Again, 2 channels of sound until I flipped through different audio modes and I ended up with 7 channel PCM which had an echo/reverb sound that just did not sound right.
  4. Lego Indiana Jones - Started up with only 2 channels of audio. I had to switch through audio modes to get surround sound. At one point audio was not coming through the center even though the receiver stated Dolby Pro Logic IIx.
  5. Lego Star Wars started up with only 2 channels of audio.

After 5 games I gave up and just decided that if I want this to work right I'll have to use optical out for now on games. Dear H/K, did you even do any testing with the PS3? This is a MAJOR oversight.

Blu-Ray PCM

The sub output with PCM is too high. The biggest problem with this is that the difference between a low frequency PCM signal and a low frequency DD signal is quite significant. I tend to like bass on the heavy side. So if I calibrate sub settings on my AVR for DD tracks, then what happens is when I have a PCM signal with those settings then I end up with the bass majorly overpowering the rest of the audio (not to mention my subs peaking out). And at this point I don't a work around. I could setup two different sources, one for DD tracks with LFE at 0, and one for PCM with the LFE trim at -10, however the LFE trim at max doesn't bring the volume down enough. This means I'll be tweaking all the time which is not convenient by any means.

My suggestions

Anyone on the fence who already has a nice receiver should wait until these issues are resolved. The PCM low frequency issue is a big deal for me and since I'll have to use optical for games I'm wondering if I should just throw in the towel and stick with my H/K AVR-630. My AVR-630 seems to do just as good as my 354 outside of some features and the inability to decode blu-ray HD audio.

I plan on calling H/K this afternoon. I'm going to test it out some more for a week (just had it over a week) and if I don't feel it's a significant upgrade over my AVR-630 then back it goes to Harman Audio. Considering the fact that the big selling point of this receiver is lossless audio, and considering that the biggest blu-ray player out there is a PS3, the amount of issues these receivers are having with BASIC stuff is quite shameful!
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post #190 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 10:21 AM
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I've got a little over two weeks to hope for a solution but if they can't figure it out, sound quality be damned, I'll go back to the Pioneer 1018.
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post #191 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by funkbucket007 View Post

I've got a little over two weeks to hope for a solution but if they can't figure it out, sound quality be damned, I'll go back to the Pioneer 1018.

I've got 3 and 1/2...just about ready to pull the trigger on that 988 for $599.
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post #192 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 11:06 AM
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Found yet another problem (as if I needed anymore)

The GUI menu locks when I try to access screensaver or any of the options for that matter near the bottom in the general preferences.

Only way out is to turn it off and wait almost a full minute for it to find it's way back to where it was...the processing in this receiver is slower than #$%&!
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post #193 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Deron-X View Post

Found yet another problem (as if I needed anymore)

The GUI menu locks when I try to access screensaver or any of the options for that matter near the bottom in the general preferences.

Only way out is to turn it off and wait almost a full minute for it to find it's way back to where it was...the processing in this receiver is slower than #$%&!

I definitely do not have this issue with my 354. Everything is accessible with no freezes.

Though, I must agree that the processing can be rather slow.
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post #194 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys I updated the first post. One of my posts got deleted in the server crash, but I want to apologize for the delay in updating the first post and letting you guys know whats going on. Its been an extremely rough two weeks personally, so this thread took a bit of a backseat. I'm trying to catch back up, but I personally want to thank piki-iki, T2K, Garman and Metalheadisme....among others....for keeping up with the issues and finding new ones. It makes my job a lot easier.

I'll let you all know when I get more information from H/K and BBY Corporate on a resolution for these problems.

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post #195 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Deron-X View Post

Found yet another problem (as if I needed anymore)

The GUI menu locks when I try to access screensaver or any of the options for that matter near the bottom in the general preferences.

Only way out is to turn it off and wait almost a full minute for it to find it's way back to where it was...the processing in this receiver is slower than #$%&!

I had this issue when I first hooked up my 354. You need to write down all your settings first and then do a SYSTEM RESET. Someone posted it about a week ago but I think it may have been deleted with the AVS website crash. I've already forgot which two buttons to hold to do the reset though. Sorry.
Does anyone remember how to do the reset??? I know the receiver should be in standby mode and then you press and hold two buttons on the front of the AVR for 5-10 seconds and then the AVR will say RESET on the front. Your freezing issues should be over after that.

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post #196 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post


Blu-Ray PCM

The sub output with PCM is too high. The biggest problem with this is that the difference between a low frequency PCM signal and a low frequency DD signal is quite significant. I tend to like bass on the heavy side. So if I calibrate sub settings on my AVR for DD tracks, then what happens is when I have a PCM signal with those settings then I end up with the bass majorly overpowering the rest of the audio (not to mention my subs peaking out). And at this point I don't a work around. I could setup two different sources, one for DD tracks with LFE at 0, and one for PCM with the LFE trim at -10, however the LFE trim at max doesn't bring the volume down enough. This means I'll be tweaking all the time which is not convenient by any means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk11 View Post

Hey guys I updated the first post. One of my posts got deleted in the server crash, but I want to apologize for the delay in updating the first post and letting you guys know whats going on. Its been an extremely rough two weeks personally, so this thread took a bit of a backseat. I'm trying to catch back up, but I personally want to thank piki-iki, T2K, Garman and Metalheadisme....among others....for keeping up with the issues and finding new ones. It makes my job a lot easier.

I'll let you all know when I get more information from H/K and BBY Corporate on a resolution for these problems.

Jayhawk, please add the hot sub output when PCM is fed to the receiver as described by xb1032 above. I posted this problem in the anticipation thread 1 week after the release of this receiver and others in the thread have confirmed this problem.

Also, you can probably add BTB/WTW not passing under the 'Cannot turn processing off' category.

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post #197 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishLegend View Post

I had this issue when I first hooked up my 354. You need to write down all your settings first and then do a SYSTEM RESET. Someone posted it about a week ago but I think it may have been deleted with the AVS website crash. I've already forgot which two buttons to hold to do the reset though. Sorry.
Does anyone remember how to do the reset??? I know the receiver should be in standby mode and then you press and hold two buttons on the front of the AVR for 5-10 seconds and then the AVR will say RESET on the front. Your freezing issues should be over after that.

Thanks

Does anyone remember the system reset command? I take it that it's not unplugging the unit for a few minutes that does the trick.
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post #198 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Deron-X View Post

Thanks

Does anyone remember the system reset command? I take it that it's not unplugging the unit for a few minutes that does the trick.

No. It's in standby. Try the Resolution and AVR buttons at the same time.

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post #199 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 07:39 PM
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should I wait to buy the 254? or just keep my Lexicon MC-1? My lexicon has a front volume problem, but thats it. I am selling my Yamaha 663....too brash sounding and love the warmness that Harman Int'l provides, but very worried about all these problems without solutions!

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post #200 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KBMAN View Post

should I wait to buy the 254? or just keep my Lexicon MC-1? My lexicon has a front volume problem, but thats it. I am selling my Yamaha 663....too brash sounding and love the warmness that Harman Int'l provides, but very worried about all these problems without solutions!

I would wait if you have a decent working rec'r situation now, the price on a 254 can go nowhere but down, and maybe issues resolved via firmware in the process. I wouldn't recommend dropping six bills on one right now that's for sure.

My plan at the moment is to exchange for a new unit before the return time runs out and may perpetually exchange them until they fix the damn thing or I get a hold of one of the wonder units that are trouble-free.
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post #201 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Jayhawk, please add the hot sub output when PCM is fed to the receiver as described by xb1032 above. I posted this problem in the anticipation thread 1 week after the release of this receiver and others in the thread have confirmed this problem.

Also, you can probably add BTB/WTW not passing under the 'Cannot turn processing off' category.

Will do

Good news all. I think i may have finally gotten contact info for someone at H/K who can actually make something happen. I don't want to say too much since I just got it today, and I have no idea how much they can help...but at least they are another leverage point for us. Our Corporate escalation guys are still fighting with Harman/Kardon on whether or not there are problems...and the fact that they are stonewalling us on admitting the problems and a timetable for a solution.

Like I said before, the best thing we can do is just keep e-mailing and calling H/K. Become a big enough pain in the ass and they will do anything to fix the problems

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post #202 of 2878 Old 08-13-2008, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jayhawk11 View Post

Will do

Good news all. I think i may have finally gotten contact info for someone at H/K who can actually make something happen. I don't want to say too much since I just got it today, and I have no idea how much they can help...but at least they are another leverage point for us. Our Corporate escalation guys are still fighting with Harman/Kardon on whether or not there are problems...and the fact that they are stonewalling us on admitting the problems and a timetable for a solution.

Like I said before, the best thing we can do is just keep e-mailing and calling H/K. Become a big enough pain in the ass and they will do anything to fix the problems


Not a bad idea, considering I tried that with Onkyo and my 805 crapfest! Just glad I got my money back after a few months of bitching. The quirks these HK units have don't even pale in comparison.. Still they should be addressed... I am about ready to put Madden 09 in right now, just hard to play with #4 being a Jet now....
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post #203 of 2878 Old 08-14-2008, 12:18 AM
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I was just about ready to by a 254 tomorrow until I read this thread because I have a ps3 and use it a lot so now it looks like I will be getting the yamaha 663 is this a smart choice?
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post #204 of 2878 Old 08-14-2008, 06:51 AM
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I was just about ready to by a 254 tomorrow until I read this thread because I have a ps3 and use it a lot so now it looks like I will be getting the yamaha 663 is this a smart choice?

I'd look at the Denon 1909 or Pioneer 1018 before the Yammy, also the Denon 988 is on Amazon for $599...it's basically the same as the 2808 which Best Buy has for 1K.

You need to go to to a Magnolia and test drive them all.
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post #205 of 2878 Old 08-14-2008, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jayhawk11 View Post

Will do

Good news all. I think i may have finally gotten contact info for someone at H/K who can actually make something happen. I don't want to say too much since I just got it today, and I have no idea how much they can help...but at least they are another leverage point for us. Our Corporate escalation guys are still fighting with Harman/Kardon on whether or not there are problems...and the fact that they are stonewalling us on admitting the problems and a timetable for a solution.

Like I said before, the best thing we can do is just keep e-mailing and calling H/K. Become a big enough pain in the ass and they will do anything to fix the problems

Thats good to hear jayhawk. If you can get through to them before the end of my return window (the end of this month), then I may not return my 354.

Otherwise it is going to be difficult to justify keeping it... even though it does sound amazing.
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post #206 of 2878 Old 08-14-2008, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jayhawk11 View Post

Will do

Good news all. I think i may have finally gotten contact info for someone at H/K who can actually make something happen. I don't want to say too much since I just got it today, and I have no idea how much they can help...but at least they are another leverage point for us. Our Corporate escalation guys are still fighting with Harman/Kardon on whether or not there are problems...and the fact that they are stonewalling us on admitting the problems and a timetable for a solution.

Like I said before, the best thing we can do is just keep e-mailing and calling H/K. Become a big enough pain in the ass and they will do anything to fix the problems

Or just return about four or five per person, that should get noticed real quick. The simple fact they are denying any problems is completely pathetic and therefore justifies the return of these receivers until one finds a proverbial miracle unit that has no problems.

Perhaps someone needs to shoot a video documenting all the horse $%#& problems of the X54 line and post that puppy out on YouTube, that should get their attention real quick.
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post #207 of 2878 Old 08-14-2008, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by EnzymaticRacer View Post

Thats good to hear jayhawk. If you can get through to them before the end of my return window (the end of this month), then I may not return my 354.

Otherwise it is going to be difficult to justify keeping it... even though it does sound amazing.

Dude, go return it for a brand new one and extend your return window. If they want to play games, play by their rules...and if they keep their little ostrich heads buried in the proverbial sand to the reality of these problems, keep returning them until they address it.

Tit for tat in my book.
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post #208 of 2878 Old 08-14-2008, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Deron-X View Post

Dude, go return it for a brand new one and extend your return window. If they want to play games, play by their rules...and if they keep their little ostrich heads buried in the proverbial sand to the reality of these problems, keep returning them until they address it.

Tit for tat in my book.

I thought that you can only exchange them for 30 days after the original purchase? The issue here is that I used a $100 dollar off coupon to buy it, and I don't want to return it, just to re-buy the unit at the higher price without being able to use the $100 off...
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post #209 of 2878 Old 08-14-2008, 07:17 AM
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I thought that you can only exchange them for 30 days after the original purchase? The issue here is that I used a $100 dollar off coupon to buy it, and I don't want to return it, just to re-buy the unit at the higher price without being able to use the $100 off...

If there's a problem with it, you should be able to do a simple exchange for a brand new unit, that being the case you should then be afforded an additional 30 day window in which to return the exchanged unit if it to is defective.

Where did you buy it?
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post #210 of 2878 Old 08-14-2008, 07:19 AM
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"best"buy...
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