*Official* Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 3197 Old 08-01-2008, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hearth View Post

I can confirm that both of these items are the same for the 2309...

Thanks for testing this.
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post #32 of 3197 Old 08-01-2008, 06:57 PM
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What do you think of the Audyssey Dynamic Volume feature? This is one of the main features that I'm interested in to wage war against commercials recorded at peak levels coming out of a quiet program. I won't have my 2309CI for about a month.
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post #33 of 3197 Old 08-01-2008, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecos View Post

What do you think of the Audyssey Dynamic Volume feature? This is one of the main features that I'm interested in to wage war against commercials recorded at peak levels coming out of a quiet program. I won't have my 2309CI for about a month.

This will have to be something that I play with for a while. My initial impression, after watching Stargate Atlantis in HD, is that the commercials are still a little louder, mainly because you switch from the 5.1 audio of the show to 2 channel stereo out of the front speakers. However, I mainly noticed the difference in "Day" mode. When I switched to "Evening" mode, the volumes were much closer; however, I found myself cranking up the volume to around "-4db" for a comfortable volume. I did not like "Midnight" mode, as I needed to crank it to "+4db" to hear it the way I wanted to.

One interesting thing is that each input can seperately enable/disable the Audyssey features.
This is a nice bit of flexibility...

All of that is my initial impression after one show, however. So, take all that with a grain of salt. I have a fan running in the room right now, so that be what is influencing this opinion.

So far, after running the Audyssey setup, the sound does sound very much improved!

I am still setting up my system, but have been taking breaks. I am trying to figure out how to get all my inputs set up, adding banana plugs to my speaker wire, and rewiring my system.

Let me know if you have other questions...
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post #34 of 3197 Old 08-01-2008, 07:46 PM
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commodore 64 graphics

Nice legs, shame about the (inter)face.

2nd time I've said that. 21st Century 'an all.

He could destroy the world..!
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post #35 of 3197 Old 08-01-2008, 10:25 PM
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Agreed. Now we know it really doesn´t matter for sound quality or the "bigger picture", but surely, it would be nice to have. 2809 and above, I guess...

Edit: 2809 has same "GUI" as 2309.

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post #36 of 3197 Old 08-01-2008, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hearth View Post

This will have to be something that I play with for a while. My initial impression, after watching Stargate Atlantis in HD, is that the commercials are still a little louder, mainly because you switch from the 5.1 audio of the show to 2 channel stereo out of the front speakers. However, I mainly noticed the difference in "Day" mode. When I switched to "Evening" mode, the volumes were much closer; however, I found myself cranking up the volume to around "-4db" for a comfortable volume. I did not like "Midnight" mode, as I needed to crank it to "+4db" to hear it the way I wanted to.

One interesting thing is that each input can seperately enable/disable the Audyssey features.
This is a nice bit of flexibility...

All of that is my initial impression after one show, however. So, take all that with a grain of salt. I have a fan running in the room right now, so that be what is influencing this opinion.

So far, after running the Audyssey setup, the sound does sound very much improved!

I am still setting up my system, but have been taking breaks. I am trying to figure out how to get all my inputs set up, adding banana plugs to my speaker wire, and rewiring my system.

Let me know if you have other questions...


Please keep us up-dated on this. Audyssey Volume Leveling and the 4th HMDI is the only reason I'm considering the Denon 2309 over the Pioneer VSX-01TXH.


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post #37 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 08:01 AM
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Looks like Denon USA is adding the 889 and 789 to the website. Not much there yet but the MSRP of the 889 is $799, not $749.
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post #38 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaavenger View Post

Please keep us up-dated on this. Audyssey Volume Leveling and the 4th HMDI is the only reason I'm considering the Denon 2309 over the Pioneer VSX-01TXH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hearth View Post

This will have to be something that I play with for a while. My initial impression, after watching Stargate Atlantis in HD, is that the commercials are still a little louder, mainly because you switch from the 5.1 audio of the show to 2 channel stereo out of the front speakers. However, I mainly noticed the difference in "Day" mode. When I switched to "Evening" mode, the volumes were much closer; however, I found myself cranking up the volume to around "-4db" for a comfortable volume. I did not like "Midnight" mode, as I needed to crank it to "+4db" to hear it the way I wanted to.

One interesting thing is that each input can seperately enable/disable the Audyssey features.
This is a nice bit of flexibility...

All of that is my initial impression after one show, however. So, take all that with a grain of salt. I have a fan running in the room right now, so that be what is influencing this opinion.

So far, after running the Audyssey setup, the sound does sound very much improved!

I am still setting up my system, but have been taking breaks. I am trying to figure out how to get all my inputs set up, adding banana plugs to my speaker wire, and rewiring my system.

Let me know if you have other questions...


Because the recent "crash" has erased everything that was posted since August 2, I do not know if you had the chance to report back some more about the performance of the dynamiic volume/EQ... Could you give us an update on it? The Dynamic Volume/EQ and the 2 extra hdmi inputs are currently the only features keeping me from jumping on a 988 (which only has MultEQ XT, but is going for $599 now)... An update would be really appreciated. Thanks.
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post #39 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 09:41 AM
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Still lots of typos in the online specs for the new models. I got excited looking at the spec sheet for the 2309ci since it had a checkmark for "digital to analog zone 2 output", but of course once I checked the manual that wasn't actually true.

It seems like they have narrowed the features gap between 1909 vs 2309 in this year's iteration, since they have added a 5th assignable video input to 1909 and they have an identical number of digital audio inputs on the back. 23xx used to give you extra input/output flexibility over the 19xx model but that's no longer the case really (other than the front aux input).

From my perusal of the specs/manuals, it looks like the advantages of 2309 over 1909 are:

1. beefier amp section (more watts, 2 lbs heavier, lower THD)
2. 4th HDMI input
3. phono input & preamp stage
4. optical & s-video jacks on the front aux input (composite only on 1909)
5. RS232 + 12V trigger (better system control for a custom install)
6. a 4th composite/s-video input on the back

and that's it. I think the 889 becomes an enticing choice at $100 cheaper, but I'm not sure those upgrades are worth $200 over the 1909.

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post #40 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 09:52 AM
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J&R (Jacques x 1015) is taking preorders on the 2309 at $749 with free shipping. I'm not sure when they will get it though. I'm also not sure what other deals are out there.

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post #41 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

J&R (Jacques x 1015) is taking preorders on the 2309 at $749 with free shipping. I'm not sure when they will get it though. I'm also not sure what other deals are out there.


What's Jacques's telephone # or contact info?
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post #42 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 10:59 AM
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FYI - Amazon is showing the 2309 and 2809 as shipping within 1 to 2 months

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"I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine." - Bruce Lee
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post #43 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Still lots of typos in the online specs for the new models. I got excited looking at the spec sheet for the 2309ci since it had a checkmark for "digital to analog zone 2 output", but of course once I checked the manual that wasn't actually true.

It seems like they have narrowed the features gap between 1909 vs 2309 in this year's iteration, since they have added a 5th assignable video input to 1909 and they have an identical number of digital audio inputs on the back. 23xx used to give you extra input/output flexibility over the 19xx model but that's no longer the case really (other than the front aux input).

From my perusal of the specs/manuals, it looks like the advantages of 2309 over 1909 are:

1. beefier amp section (more watts, 2 lbs heavier, lower THD)
2. 4th HDMI input
3. phono input & preamp stage
4. optical & s-video jacks on the front aux input (composite only on 1909)
5. RS232 + 12V trigger (better system control for a custom install)
6. a 4th composite/s-video input on the back

and that's it. I think the 889 becomes an enticing choice at $100 cheaper, but I'm not sure those upgrades are worth $200 over the 1909.

(7) Made in Japan

I'm currently using the 1909 and have preordered the 2309. I was in the same boat. Was the 2309 worth $200 over the 1909? The only thing I could think of was (1), (2) and (7) as I have no use for any of the other differences. Then there's all of this 1080P from DirecTv and Dish Network which I'm sure will need HDMI if it is indeed 1080P. Having a 4th HDMI now seemed important to me as I have a SA BD player, PS3 and a Xbox 360 as well as DirecTV. I don't want to use a switcher and the ease of one cable instead of many.
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post #44 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

What's Jacques's telephone # or contact info?

800-221-8180 x1015

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post #45 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by adrian457 View Post

(Then there's all of this 1080P from DirecTv and Dish Network which I'm sure will need HDMI if it is indeed 1080P.

Did you hear that DTV is going to 1080p? I haven't heard that, and I'd be very surprised.

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post #46 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 11:43 AM
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Did you hear that DTV is going to 1080p? I haven't heard that, and I'd be very surprised.

Yes it should be happeing soon. It's going to be the same type of 1080P VOD. More or less probably HD-Lite stretch-o-vison but not sure until someone actually uses it. Hell, TBS HD and TNT HD look horrible and stretched on some movies and sports and they consider that HD so I don't know if this is a true 1080P. I don't know if a new DirecTV receiver will be needed or not.

Dish beat DirecTv to the punch because they are losing customers and needed to persuade people to sign up. All people know now is 1080P tvs so they are offering "1080P" to get people to sign into contracts.

By the way all cable/sat services are FOS when it comes to their pitches, services and prices so I'm not picking on Dish Network as it works both ways.

Here are some links:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/07/31...vod-in-august/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/07/28...80p-movies-la/
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post #47 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hearth View Post

Hi All,

Since I will be taking delivery of a Denon AVR 2309CI unit this Friday, I thought that I would get this thread started. This post is a placeholder, so that I can post my initial thoughts and, later, a review of the unit, as well as answer any questions.

My original intent was to purchase an 889 model, as I did not feel that I needed the extra features that the 2309 model offered. However, when I found the 2309 on Amazon in stock, with overnight shipping a mere $4, I had to pull the trigger on it.

This unit will be replacing a Denon AVR 2805. I like my 2805 a lot, but with it not having any HDMI connections, it became increasingly frustrating to use. My wife will love the volume leveling features, as she is always complaining about the volume of commercials vs the shows themselves.

I will be hooking up 2 DirecTV HR-20s, an Oppo 981 DVD player, a PS3, an Xbox 360, and a Wii to the system, which will feed into my Samsung DLP 7178. My current plan is to feed the Xbox 360 & Wii thru component connections (neither has HDMI connections) and the other 4 via HDMI.

Look for my initial impressions either Friday night or Sunday (I have an all-day commitment on Saturday)...

Don

Could you elaborate on the extra features the 2309 has vs. 889. I am looking at an 889 right now, but havn't pulled the trigger yet.

I didn't notice any differences when I compared specs online.

Anyone??
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post #48 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 03:30 PM
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i only have time to do a quick glance...i used the "compare" function and all i noticed was the 2309 is a bit cleaner with the harmonic distortion at 0.05 vs. 0.08 for the 889. of course this could be a typo?

the compare function also listed the 889 with a serial port, which doesnt appear to be true. i looked the the photo of the rear of the 889 straight from denon's website...and there is no serial port. it also lacks a 12v trigger.
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post #49 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
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the only difference between 889 and 2309ci should be the RS232 port, 12v trigger, and the second zone 2 remote which are all on 2309ci and not 889. These are needed for the "CI" designation since they'd mostly be used with complex installs. Most people will never ever use these features (well, maybe the zone 2 remote).

Using the "compare" feature is difficult at this time as there are many typos.

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post #50 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian457 View Post

(7) Made in Japan

+1

"Made in Japan" is important to me. Craftmanship is an important part of a high quality product. Manufacturing process and Quality Assurance process are also important which should be much more mature and estabished in Japan. This factor alone is well worth $100 more
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post #51 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 06:31 PM
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I noticed that only 1909 has "RF/RC 2 way" port. 2309/889/789 does not have this.

Can I use third-party RF receiver with this port? or It only work with Denon RF controler/receiver?
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post #52 of 3197 Old 08-11-2008, 07:20 PM
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^^ the 2309 would use the serial port for an rf receiver. sorry i dont know about 3rd party support and how the 789 or 889 would connect to an rf receiver since it appears to have neither the serial port or 2way port.
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post #53 of 3197 Old 08-12-2008, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by foxnews View Post

+1

"Made in Japan" is important to me. Craftmanship is an important part of a high quality product. Manufacturing process and Quality Assurance process are also important which should be much more mature and estabished in Japan. This factor alone is well worth $100 more

Seriously? Are such statements still valid, especially when they involve a comparison with "Made in China" authentic *Denon* products? In other words are you 100 percent certain that the 1909 is an inferior product relative to the higher models simply because it was built in China and not in Japan, even if we're talking about the same company? Is this a fact related to these receivers that can be proven? I want to know because you've just introduced some doubts about the 1909 into my mind, and I want to be sure that those doubts are really justified by proven facts! If they are, then I shall not get the 1909 regardless of how underpriced it gets.
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post #54 of 3197 Old 08-12-2008, 05:08 AM
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I have a Samsung 1080p DLP set (HL-S5688 mfg 2006) and am wondering whether the Denon or my Samsung will do a better job with the video processing. Anyone have any thoughts?

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post #55 of 3197 Old 08-12-2008, 09:47 AM
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So I'm deciding whether or not to cancel my 1909 pre-order and switch to the 2309, Is it really worth the extra 250 dollars I'll be paying? Also when is this supposed to hit stores?
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post #56 of 3197 Old 08-12-2008, 09:59 AM
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nobody can tell you if it's worth it but you. the specific differences are listed a few posts up, only you can decide if you will actually use the extra features and whether the extra money is well spent given YOUR budget constraints. The AVR 889 is another option as it's a little cheaper than the 2309 but is basically identical.

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post #57 of 3197 Old 08-12-2008, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

I have a Samsung 1080p DLP set (HL-S5688 mfg 2006) and am wondering whether the Denon or my Samsung will do a better job with the video processing. Anyone have any thoughts?

Only way to know is to try 'em both, anything anyone else will tell you is speculation.

If it helps, the Faroudja chip was designed years ago as a progressive scan DVD player solution. It should do an excellent job with deinterlacing 480i material, which is what it was designed to do, but it was never meant to be a true 1080p scaler or to deal with HD resolutions.

Chances are, the best results will be obtained setting the Denon to 480p output (i.e. only deinterlacing 480i) and let the TV handle it from there.... but it is possible that your TV's scaler is so poor that you may see better results setting the Denon to a higher upscaling res, you'll just have to try it out.

Remember, these Denons will not touch any HD resolutions, just pass them through.

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post #58 of 3197 Old 08-12-2008, 10:32 AM
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Since no-one has bothered to address the question, let me rephrase it:

Just how important is the "Made in China" vs "Made in Japan" difference when we are talking about the same authentic Denon technology? Is there really something tangible that will weaken or corrupt that technology in China but not in Japan? It seems to me like saying a Toyota or Honda assembled in Japan is superior to one assembled by the same Toyota factory in say New Jersey, or Canada... But just how does one prove such a claim? What is the evidence to support it? Without any proof, it sounds simply like an empty "feel good" myth without any basis in fact that one may repeat out of long habit... But that is not the kind of info one looks for in a *Science* forum... especially when it might actually degrade unnecessarily what appears to be an excellent piece of equipment like the 1909...
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post #59 of 3197 Old 08-12-2008, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Since no-one has bothered to address the question, let me rephrase it:

Just how important is the "Made in China" vs "Made in Japan" difference when we are talking about the same authentic Denon technology? Is there really something tangible that will weaken or corrupt that technology in China but not in Japan? It seems to me like saying a Toyota or Honda assembled in Japan is superior to one assembled by the same Toyota factory in say New Jersey, or Canada... But just how does one prove such a claim? What is the evidence to support it? Without any proof, it sounds simply like an empty "feel good" myth without any basis in fact that one may repeat out of long habit... But that is not the kind of info one looks for in a *Science* forum... especially when it might actually degrade unnecessarily what appears to be an excellent piece of equipment like the 1909...

I think the earlier poster was saying was that 2309 is being produced at the main Denon factory rather then outsourced to another factory such as with the 1909. Sorta like buying a VW made in Germany, rather then made in USA, its a representation of quality. BTW sometimes slightly better parts are used throughout the design as you go up in price. As always, you get what you pay for.

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post #60 of 3197 Old 08-12-2008, 03:52 PM
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I think the earlier poster was saying was that 2309 is being produced at the main Denon factory rather then outsourced to another factory such as with the 1909. Sorta like buying a VW made in Germany, rather then made in USA, its a representation of quality. BTW sometimes slightly better parts are used throughout the design as you go up in price. As always, you get what you pay for.


I understand the implication that the outsourced product might not match in quality the home-factory-made one The implication may rest on a (founded or unfounded) suspicion that the quality of work in the outsourced foreign factory might be relatively sub-par. Personally, I don't see how it makes a lot of good business sense since producing sub-par products always hurt the name of the corporation no matter where those products are made. It seems like a sure way for a company to shoot itself in the foot in the global market. But let me just say that your statement about "higher priced" models having "slightly better parts" resonates a lot more with me...
Personally, my problem is that deep-down I already know what I want, which is the 2809/989 model, but it is unfortunately going to be outside my budgetary reach for the next 3-6 months... Which is why I'm currently torturing myself trying to decide between three 2nd choice options--the 988, the 1909, or the 2309/889--which are more within my present budgetary range, and yet each of them suffers the totally devastating disadvantage (sarcasm alert!!) of not quite being the almighty 2809/989 Truth be told, I don't even know why I'm so hung up on the 2809/989, except for the fact that I'm trying to upgrade from a 2802, and feel that getting anything below a 28xx/9xx would represent a kind of demotion of the stature of my HT system There is something in my head which is strongly resisting that demotion although in my rational mind, I know it is no demotion at all (My 2802 has 90 watt per channel rating as opposed to the 2309's 100 for pete's sake, so where's the demotion?) So there you have it

By the way, here's another question: Are these July-August price drops on outgoing models such as the current 988's price-drop an annual thing with Denon? Is there any likelihood the 2809/989 will experience a similar price-drop around this time next year or before?
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