*Official* Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 3190 Old 08-12-2008, 03:54 PM
Senior Member
 
sahmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Any pre-order deals on the 889 yet that anyone knows about?
sahmen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 3190 Old 08-12-2008, 04:15 PM
Senior Member
 
foxnews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Seriously? Are such statements still valid, especially when they involve a comparison with "Made in China" authentic *Denon* products? In other words are you 100 percent certain that the 1909 is an inferior product relative to the higher models simply because it was built in China and not in Japan, even if we're talking about the same company? Is this a fact related to these receivers that can be proven? I want to know because you've just introduced some doubts about the 1909 into my mind, and I want to be sure that those doubts are really justified by proven facts! If they are, then I shall not get the 1909 regardless of how underpriced it gets.

it is common sense. any products made in china for one main reason: cheap labor. what does "cheap labor" mean? cheap labor is not equal to high quality.

if you work in a big coporation producing a sophisticated product, there are many complex processes involved to minimize defects. These processes cost money and it come with high expectation. This kind of expectation is not common in cheap labor market like china. they don't even have basic human right. they don't even have life or product insurance, ect.

let me ask you a simple question: would you rather buy BMW made in Germany or made in China?

if you buy a blastic toy costing $10, then made in china would not matter. but sophisticated products are different stories.
foxnews is offline  
post #63 of 3190 Old 08-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Senior Member
 
foxnews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Since no-one has bothered to address the question, let me rephrase it:

Just how important is the "Made in China" vs "Made in Japan" difference when we are talking about the same authentic Denon technology? Is there really something tangible that will weaken or corrupt that technology in China but not in Japan? It seems to me like saying a Toyota or Honda assembled in Japan is superior to one assembled by the same Toyota factory in say New Jersey, or Canada... But just how does one prove such a claim? What is the evidence to support it? Without any proof, it sounds simply like an empty "feel good" myth without any basis in fact that one may repeat out of long habit... But that is not the kind of info one looks for in a *Science* forum... especially when it might actually degrade unnecessarily what appears to be an excellent piece of equipment like the 1909...

Made in USA vs Made in Japan is minor. but Made in China vs Made in Japan/USA/Germany is a big deal.

let me ask you again: would you like to have your heart surgery done in China or in USA?
foxnews is offline  
post #64 of 3190 Old 08-12-2008, 04:27 PM
Member
 
Amped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

I understand the implication that the outsourced product might not match in quality the home-factory-made one The implication may rest on a (founded or unfounded) suspicion that the quality of work in the outsourced foreign factory might be relatively sub-par. Personally, I don't see how it makes a lot of good business sense since producing sub-par products always hurt the name of the corporation no matter where those products are made. It seems like a sure way for a company to shoot itself in the foot in the global market. But let me just say that your statement about "higher priced" models having "slightly better parts" resonates a lot more with me...
Personally, my problem is that deep-down I already know what I want, which is the 2809/989 model, but it is unfortunately going to be outside my budgetary reach for the next 3-6 months... Which is why I'm currently torturing myself trying to decide between three 2nd choice options--the 988, the 1909, or the 2309/889--which are more within my present budgetary range, and yet each of them suffers the totally devastating disadvantage (sarcasm alert!!) of not quite being the almighty 2809/989 Truth be told, I don't even know why I'm so hung up on the 2809/989, except for the fact that I'm trying to upgrade from a 2802, and feel that getting anything below a 28xx/9xx would represent a kind of demotion of the stature of my HT system There is something in my head which is strongly resisting that demotion although in my rational mind, I know it is no demotion at all (My 2802 has 90 watt per channel rating as opposed to the 2309's 100 for pete's sake, so where's the demotion?) So there you have it

By the way, here's another question: Are these July-August price drops on outgoing models such as the current 988's price-drop an annual thing with Denon? Is there any likelihood the 2809/989 will experience a similar price-drop around this time next year or before?

Many companies across various industries make products in China to reduce (short term) manufacturing costs and improve profit margin (on paper). I've had engineering experience with suppliers in China and you "get what you pay for". I don't believe China currently has the capability or understanding of global standards and quality practices.

I'm both surprised and disappointed that many of the higher-end AVRs are made in China (Denon, Marantz, etc.). However, just because the AVR is being assembled in China, it's unknown what, if any, of the sub-parts are also manufactured in China. It is possible that the "made in Japan" 2309 has more China content than the 1909.
Amped is offline  
post #65 of 3190 Old 08-12-2008, 06:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Elkhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
FieryGoose:

Crutchfield shipped my 2309 last Friday. It's in transit-on time, should be delivered on or before Friday (the 15th). They had 45 in stock when I ordered mine.
Elkhunter is offline  
post #66 of 3190 Old 08-12-2008, 06:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Elkhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Amped:

With your engineering experience with suppliers in China, please explain why Denon moved production from China to Japan, if you can. My 2 year old 2307 was made in China, while my 2309 (due by Friday) is made in Japan, as you posted. Doesn't sound like reduced manufacturing costs and/or improved profit margins to me. How can they possibly build a 2309 for less $$$ in Japan, than China ???
Elkhunter is offline  
post #67 of 3190 Old 08-13-2008, 05:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RMSko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Westfield, NJ 07090
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Any pre-order deals on the 889 yet that anyone knows about?

A few posts back shows that J&R is taking preorders on the 2309 and it's with $100 off ($749) and free shipping. Call Jacques at 1-800-221-8180 x1015. I don't know if they sell the 889 though.

Rich S
TiVo since 1999
RMSko is offline  
post #68 of 3190 Old 08-13-2008, 10:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
ab2ab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 619
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Personally, my problem is that deep-down I already know what I want, which is the 2809/989 model, but it is unfortunately going to be outside my budgetary reach for the next 3-6 months... Which is why I'm currently torturing myself trying to decide between three 2nd choice options--the 988, the 1909, or the 2309/889--which are more within my present budgetary range, and yet each of them suffers the “totally devastating disadvantage” (sarcasm alert!!) of not quite being the “almighty” 2809/989… Truth be told, I don’t even know why I’m so hung up on the 2809/989, except for the fact that I’m trying to upgrade from a 2802, and feel that getting anything below a 28xx/9xx would represent a kind of “demotion” of the stature of my HT system… There is something in my head which is strongly resisting that “demotion” although in my rational mind, I know it is no “demotion” at all (My 2802 has 90 watt per channel rating as opposed to the 2309’s 100 for pete’s sake, so where’s the “demotion”?)… So there you have it…

By the way, here’s another question: Are these July-August price drops on outgoing models such as the current 988’s price-drop an annual thing with Denon? Is there any likelihood the 2809/989 will experience a similar price-drop around this time next year or before?

Commentary aside, I have an Onkyo 605, Denon 988 and in the coming days, a 1909. We lost thousands of posts recently and there you could have read my impression of Dynamic EQ (featured on my friends 606), and let me tell you, its the real deal. When the 1909 arrives, I will put all the receivers through their paces in my environment and keep one. I'll let you know which one I'll keep and why as soon as I can. And, yes, I will sell the receivers that I'll be parting with.
ab2ab is offline  
post #69 of 3190 Old 08-13-2008, 12:34 PM
Senior Member
 
sahmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

Commentary aside, I have an Onkyo 605, Denon 988 and in the coming days, a 1909. We lost thousands of posts recently and there you could have read my impression of Dynamic EQ (featured on my friends 606), and let me tell you, its the real deal. When the 1909 arrives, I will put all the receivers through their paces in my environment and keep one. I'll let you know which one I'll keep and why as soon as I can. And, yes, I will sell the receivers that I'll be parting with.

Well, I'll be interested to hear your comments since you do have two of the units I have expressed interest in. For the record, I just pulled the trigger on the 988 for $599 shipped at Amazon, mostly because it was the closest in overall power, SQ, and build-quality to the the 2809/989 which I really wanted but could not afford at this time because of budgetary constraints.... I still like the Dynamic Volume and EQ features which are missing from the 988, but I do not think I'm going to regret buying it one bit. It is after all, a Denon on the higher side of receivers in the Denon repertoire, and it is bound to deliver in spades--in quality, durability, and solidity of build--even without dynamic volume or EQ.

On the other hand, there is another receiver in my home that I have to upgrade in the not too distant future, so if the price of the 2809 or 989 drops at some point in the near future (maybe around this same period next year or before) I shall be all over it like white on rice! And at that point, I shall finally make the acquaintance of Dynamic Volume and EQ!

By the way, a lot of thanks to all the folks on these Denon threads, especially, batpig and JohnAv, for your trenchant and very helpful insights... You have given me a few more reasons to be particularly proud of the Denon receivers I already own, and the ones I shall acquire in the future.
sahmen is offline  
post #70 of 3190 Old 08-13-2008, 12:44 PM
Senior Member
 
sahmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxnews View Post

Made in USA vs Made in Japan is minor. but Made in China vs Made in Japan/USA/Germany is a big deal.

let me ask you again: would you like to have your heart surgery done in China or in USA?


Heart Surgery? This one is easy: I would like it done by the best Doctor available from either of the two countries! I'm more interested in the skills of the Doctor who will do the surgery than I am in the country they come from... It is the skills that count in the end... Funny you should bring this up, but there are a lot of celebrities (Larry King and Letterman, among them) who are now having surgeries done in Asian countries like India because of the reputation of the surgeons, and also, it turns out to be cheaper than in the States...

In that sense, "cheaper" labor or services do not always imply "inferior" service... But let us not get off topic
sahmen is offline  
post #71 of 3190 Old 08-13-2008, 01:02 PM
T2k
 
T2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

Amped:

With your engineering experience with suppliers in China, please explain why Denon moved production from China to Japan, if you can. My 2 year old 2307 was made in China, while my 2309 (due by Friday) is made in Japan, as you posted. Doesn't sound like reduced manufacturing costs and/or improved profit margins to me. How can they possibly build a 2309 for less $$$ in Japan, than China ???

It's pretty easy: cost of parts went down a lot in the past few years, due to several factors (assuming you don't pay in USD in Japan ).
T2k is offline  
post #72 of 3190 Old 08-13-2008, 01:13 PM
Senior Member
 
sahmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxnews View Post

it is common sense. any products made in china for one main reason: cheap labor. what does "cheap labor" mean? cheap labor is not equal to high quality.

if you work in a big coporation producing a sophisticated product, there are many complex processes involved to minimize defects. These processes cost money and it come with high expectation. This kind of expectation is not common in cheap labor market like china. they don't even have basic human right. they don't even have life or product insurance, ect.

let me ask you a simple question: would you rather buy BMW made in Germany or made in China?

if you buy a blastic toy costing $10, then made in china would not matter. but sophisticated products are different stories.

Well, before you misunderstanding me, let me make clear that, I do realize where you're coming from in the stance you take against "Made in China" goods. It's just that I find your view of things a little too simplified: because of the global reach of all these major corporations: 'Made in China" or "Made in Japan" simply means that the final product was assembled in China or Japan... It does not and probably never means that all the parts of the unit were actually "made" in China or Japan... In the long run, there's no way for an ordinary buyer like myself to track down and verify where every single nut, chip, or hardware in my receiver was made before deciding on the soundness of a purchase... It is more simple for me to go with the name "Denon" and trust that the name will ensure I'm getting a quality product, regardless of where the assembly plant of origin happened to be located.

Besides, it seems to be the only way to keep myself sane in this era of "globalized" production: I have ordered a laptop from Dell USA, and I have received one with the label "Made in Malaysia" written on it... I could not help it... I did not have the option to choose a "Made in USA" laptop... That decision was made for me by Dell, and believe me, it is not the first time that has happened... So again, I want to be able to trust the name of the Company rather than second guess myself on where the product was made... I'll just drive myself nuts otherwise.
sahmen is offline  
post #73 of 3190 Old 08-13-2008, 04:21 PM
Senior Member
 
foxnews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Well, before you misunderstanding me, let me make clear that, I do realize where you're coming from in the stance you take against "Made in China" goods. It's just that I find your view of things a little too simplified: because of the global reach of all these major corporations: 'Made in China" or "Made in Japan" simply means that the final product was assembled in China or Japan... It does not and probably never means that all the parts of the unit were actually "made" in China or Japan... In the long run, there's no way for an ordinary buyer like myself to track down and verify where every single nut, chip, or hardware in my receiver was made before deciding on the soundness of a purchase... It is more simple for me to go with the name "Denon" and trust that the name will ensure I'm getting a quality product, regardless of where the assembly plant of origin happened to be located.

I think you make things "too simplifiled" youself. I DO know that parts can be made some where else, not necessary in China. what I was talking about is the assembly process, Quality Assurance process, testing process used for the "final product".

For example, to meet planned quote, the QA process can pass defective Receivers which could have been failed when inspected in Japan.

No offense, but I don't think you understand the concept of designing, engineering, testing products.
foxnews is offline  
post #74 of 3190 Old 08-13-2008, 05:12 PM
Senior Member
 
sahmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxnews View Post

I think you make things "too simplifiled" youself. I DO know that parts can be made some where else, not necessary in China. what I was talking about is the assembly process, Quality Assurance process, testing process used for the "final product".

For example, to meet planned quote, the QA process can pass defective Receivers which could have been failed when inspected in Japan.

No offense, but I don't think you understand the concept of designing, engineering, testing products.

There is nothing said about the "assembly process, quality assurance process, and testing" in the posts of yours that I was responding to. What you actually mentioned was "cheap labor" which you seemed to equate unproblematically with China and inferior quality, as if Japan or the USA simply and unproblematicallyh represented the opposite (i.e. Japan/USA = expensive labor = high quality...) That is what struck me as being simplistic: I thought about American corporations who now exploit labor of prisoners because of its cheapness, and it did not seem to fit too tidily in the above equation at all...

But before things get out of hand, let me just say that you're right about one thing: I'm not an expert in Home Theater Engineering or Design; Neither am I too knowledgable about any technical aspects of the manufacturing process of HT components... I'm just a consumer seeking a few helpful hints and guidelines about technological products I enjoy and might want to purchase; which is why I am visiting this forum in the first place! The visit has already paid off... I have found the info I was looking for... I shall be back for more info when I need it... If you don't mind, let us not turn this into a pointless oneupmanship... Does that work for you?
sahmen is offline  
post #75 of 3190 Old 08-13-2008, 05:52 PM
Senior Member
 
foxnews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

There is nothing said about the "assembly process, quality assurance process, and testing" in the posts of yours that I was responding to. What you actually mentioned was "cheap labor" which you seemed to equate unproblematically with China and inferior quality, as if Japan or the USA simply and unproblematicallyh represented the opposite (i.e. Japan/USA = expensive labor = high quality...) That is what struck me as being simplistic: I thought about American corporations who now exploit labor of prisoners because of its cheapness, and it did not seem to fit too tidily in the above equation at all...

But before things get out of hand, let me just say that you're right about one thing: I'm not an expert in Home Theater Engineering or Design; Neither am I too knowledgable about any technical aspects of the manufacturing process of HT components... I'm just a consumer seeking a few helpful hints and guidelines about technological products I enjoy and might want to purchase; which is why I am visiting this forum in the first place! The visit has already paid off... I have found the info I was looking for... I shall be back for more info when I need it... If you don't mind, let us not turn this into a pointless oneupmanship... Does that work for you?

seem we're on the same page now. moving on
foxnews is offline  
post #76 of 3190 Old 08-14-2008, 09:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
1MaNArmY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ogden, UT
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Has anyone been able to view the video processing chipset located in the Denon 2309CI?
The Denon 1909 has a Genesis FLI2310-LF.

Samsung 60 F7500

Denon 3808CI

Sony BDP-S790 3D/Bluray

Harmony 900
 

1MaNArmY is offline  
post #77 of 3190 Old 08-14-2008, 07:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RMSko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Westfield, NJ 07090
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I had a surprise delivered to my house today! I had pre-ordered the 2309 with J&R and it was delivered today. I actually didn't even know it was delivered until I checked my email and saw the shipping notice - so the notice and the delivery came on the same day. Anyway, it's too late to set it up tonight, but I will definitely be doing so this weekend. It was also a pretty good price - $749, free shipping and no tax.

Rich S
TiVo since 1999
RMSko is offline  
post #78 of 3190 Old 08-15-2008, 01:46 PM
Member
 
jsprague's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My 2309 has shipped from JR so I'll be joining your ranks soon

Hopefully we'll hear nothing but positive things about this AVR
jsprague is offline  
post #79 of 3190 Old 08-15-2008, 02:04 PM
Senior Member
 
ethanj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Irvine, CA.
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Please let us know your impression when you get a chance. I'm leaning towards the 2309/889 also. By the way, if anyone has an 889, please post your impression too. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

I had a surprise delivered to my house today! I had pre-ordered the 2309 with J&R and it was delivered today. I actually didn't even know it was delivered until I checked my email and saw the shipping notice - so the notice and the delivery came on the same day. Anyway, it's too late to set it up tonight, but I will definitely be doing so this weekend. It was also a pretty good price - $749, free shipping and no tax.

ethanj is offline  
post #80 of 3190 Old 08-15-2008, 03:49 PM
Member
 
mclamais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is there a good (reputable) online place to get the Denon 2309 for less than full retail?
mclamais is offline  
post #81 of 3190 Old 08-15-2008, 05:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Elkhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
1MaNArmY,

I'll pickup my 2309 at the local UPS center in about 3 hours (I wasn't home today). Before setting it up, I'll pull the top cover off and take a peek inside.
Elkhunter is offline  
post #82 of 3190 Old 08-16-2008, 04:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RMSko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Westfield, NJ 07090
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclamais View Post

Is there a good (reputable) online place to get the Denon 2309 for less than full retail?

Just look up a few posts - J&R has it for $749, free shipping.

Rich S
TiVo since 1999
RMSko is offline  
post #83 of 3190 Old 08-16-2008, 04:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RMSko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Westfield, NJ 07090
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I'm still tweaking my 2309, but so far so good. A couple of issues though:

1. I have my DTV HR20 hooked up to one of the HDMI inputs and when I reset the HR20, after it booted back up, it would only allow me to accept a resolution of 480p, i.e., when I tried to change it, nothing happened. I then rebooted with the HR20 directly into the TV and I was able to cycle through all the resolutions. I then rebooted again and it worked fine. I'm not sure if this is my HR20 or the 2309.

2. When using Auto setup, the instructions say when using a subwoofer, either:

(a) Defeat the volume and crossover controls, if possible, or

(b) Volume at 12 o'clock position, crossover at maximum, low pass filter off and standby mode off.

Am I suppose to be making these settings through the 2309 or in my subwoofer? I'm asking b/c I don't have any of these settings directly on my sub.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rich S
TiVo since 1999
RMSko is offline  
post #84 of 3190 Old 08-16-2008, 07:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 23,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 891
what they are talking about is adjustments you need to make on your subwoofer that that you have disabled anything that may interfere with the Denon and Audyssey. When you are hooked up to the 2309, it is controlling all of the bass management and even sub-EQ'ing (through audyssey), so you don't want your sub doing anything like overlaying it's own low-pass filter or whatever.

do you not have a crossover control on the sub at all? as much as possible, the idea is to defeat any controls on the sub which could mess up the auto setup and let the denon control everything.

the idea with the volume control at the middle is just so it's not blasting when audyssey does its test tones and can set the sub trim at a normal level. you may find this doesn't work in your setup (i.e. if you notice audyssey puts your sub is at -12db and then your mains at +12db, you probably need to turn down the sub a little so audyssey has more "headroom" to balance the channel levels).

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #85 of 3190 Old 08-16-2008, 07:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RMSko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Westfield, NJ 07090
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

what they are talking about is adjustments you need to make on your subwoofer that that you have disabled anything that may interfere with the Denon and Audyssey. When you are hooked up to the 2309, it is controlling all of the bass management and even sub-EQ'ing (through audyssey), so you don't want your sub doing anything like overlaying it's own low-pass filter or whatever.

do you not have a crossover control on the sub at all? as much as possible, the idea is to defeat any controls on the sub which could mess up the auto setup and let the denon control everything.

the idea with the volume control at the middle is just so it's not blasting when audyssey does its test tones and can set the sub trim at a normal level. you may find this doesn't work in your setup (i.e. if you notice audyssey puts your sub is at -12db and then your mains at +12db, you probably need to turn down the sub a little so audyssey has more "headroom" to balance the channel levels).

Thanks for this. My old KEF SW did have a crossover setting, and also had a volume control. This KEF SW doesn't. For volume it says "Volume control is implemented in the source equipment. " Similarly there is no crossover control at the SW. The only control are Bass Boost (adjustable between 0, +3 and +6 at 40Hz (I have it at 0) and Phase Control (which I also have set at 0). I should also add that the sound was very low coming from my SW during the Auto setup. Any thoughts on what I should do?

Rich S
TiVo since 1999
RMSko is offline  
post #86 of 3190 Old 08-16-2008, 07:54 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 23,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 891
not much you CAN do.... just set those controls to "0" like you have, and let Audyssey do what it can. you will be stuck with the +/- 12dB limits that the denon proscribes, so hopefully that will be enough headroom for the Audyssey to balance your setup.

ps - if audyssey sets your subwoofer distance all funky, don't try and change it -- it is controlling phase for you by measuring distance using the "acoustic" distance of the sub, which may not be close to the physical distance if the sub isn't in phase with the other speakers. if you turn your phase dial to something else, and re-do audyssey, you will probably get a sub distance off by several feet from the previous settings. both are correct, audyssey should balance it all for you, so set your sub phase at "0" and let it work.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #87 of 3190 Old 08-16-2008, 08:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RMSko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Westfield, NJ 07090
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

not much you CAN do.... just set those controls to "0" like you have, and let Audyssey do what it can. you will be stuck with the +/- 12dB limits that the denon proscribes, so hopefully that will be enough headroom for the Audyssey to balance your setup.

ps - if audyssey sets your subwoofer distance all funky, don't try and change it -- it is controlling phase for you by measuring distance using the "acoustic" distance of the sub, which may not be close to the physical distance if the sub isn't in phase with the other speakers. if you turn your phase dial to something else, and re-do audyssey, you will probably get a sub distance off by several feet from the previous settings. both are correct, audyssey should balance it all for you, so set your sub phase at "0" and let it work.

This is very helpful. Thanks for the advice. The audyssey setup worked well. My sub seems a bit loud, but that may be b/c with my other receiver I never heard the sub unless it was a loud scene so perhaps it's not loud and is just how it's suppose to be. If it bothers me too much, I can always turn it down in the setup I guess.

Rich S
TiVo since 1999
RMSko is offline  
post #88 of 3190 Old 08-17-2008, 07:56 AM
Newbie
 
gamer2600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just got my 2309 on Friday and have been spending the weekend messing around with it. I bought new speakers as well Aperion Audio 5.1 setup although I do not have my sub yet cause it is on back order.

I feel like I am not getting the output/headroom I should be getting and maybe it is because I don't have the sub hooked up or maybe it is because I didn't do the Audessy setup yet. It just doesn't seem like it is as loud as it should be. The receiver goes from -80db to +something (haven't turned it all the way up), but it doesn't get any good volume until I reach about -10db to -6db. Is that normal? Do you think this will change when I do the EQ setup and get the sub in there.

NOTE: I have a Comcast box with HDMI going into the receiver and a PS3 with HDMI going into the receiver and then one HDMI going to TV from the receiver's output. The PS3 is set to output Linear PCM over HDMI.
gamer2600 is offline  
post #89 of 3190 Old 08-17-2008, 01:40 PM
Member
 
mclamais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

Just look up a few posts - J&R has it for $749, free shipping.

I did before I posted, but I don't see it at $749 anymore. It's now full list.
mclamais is offline  
post #90 of 3190 Old 08-17-2008, 01:50 PM
Member
 
talen316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclamais View Post

I did before I posted, but I don't see it at $749 anymore. It's now full list.

I don't think the J&R website ever showed it at the pre-order price of $749. If you call soon, you may still be able to get in on that price. I spoke to Jacques late last week and he was still able to offer that price. If you're interested, I wouldn't wait much longer though.
talen316 is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 2309ci Receiver
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off